Related Links GOP Spokesman John Feehery discussed the budget Monday. Barry Toiv talked about the GOP budget and tax cuts in an August discussion. From The Post: Clinton, GOP to Meet on Budget Fight (Oct. 19) President Plans to Battle Hill on Spending Bills (Oct. 18) Two Pilots of GOP Spending Strategy Use Differing Styles (Oct. 17) Congress Getting Around Budget Limits (Oct. 16) GOP May Push Vote on Clinton Tax Hike Package (Oct. 14) On Our Site: Budget Special Report On the Web: White House Press Briefing Room

Tuesday, October 19, 1999

The yearly tug-of-war between the White House and Congress over appropriations and the budget is in full swing, and it's getting heated. As both President Clinton and congressional Republicans attempt to portray themselves as champions of the balanced budget without dipping into the Social Security surplus, they have raised the ante with each of their proposed tax and spending plans for the next fiscal year.

Barry J. Toiv has served President Clinton as deputy White House press secretary since July 1996. Toiv discussed the White House side of the budget and appropriations fights on Tuesday, Oct. 19. The transcript follows:

washingtonpost.com: Good afternoon and welcome. When you came online in August to discuss the GOP tax cut plan, you said you didn't think there was any need for a confrontation over the budget leading to another government shutdown. Do you think the meeting this afternoon between President Clinton and congressional Republicans is the best hope for heading off a crisis?

Barry Toiv: We certainly hope it will. The president has had his door open, and we're glad that the bipartisan leadership are going to come down and talk about ways of resolving these issues. The president wants a budget that helps to secure Medicare and Social Security, and that addresses important priorities for the American people like education, the environment and law enforcement. And unfortunately, Congress has been on the wrong path with a budget that does not adequately fund those priorities, yet contains an extaordinary level of gimmickry, and that the CBO says is spending a good bit of the Social Security surplus. So there's a lot to talk about.

washingtonpost.com: Can you tell us what will happen at the meeting today?

Barry Toiv: Yesterday, President Clinton asked the bipartisan leadership to meet with him about the budget, so Speaker Hastert, [House Minority Leader] Gephardt, Sens. Daschle and Lott, as well as Rep. Armey will meet with the president and his senior advisers in the Cabinet Room at about 5 p.m. We expect the meeting to last between an hour and an hour and a half, and I expect that we'll see the leaders to traipse out to the microphones and have a few words to say afterwards.

Washington, D.C.: The president has repeatedly promised to veto the Interior spending bill, laden with 30 anti-environmental provisions. The bill has been tweaked only slightly in final congressional negotiations and is no better. Will the president keep his promise to veto the bill?

Barry Toiv: I think our people are still looking over that bill, but my understanding is that they have not addressed a lot of the president's concerns. So that's a veto threat that still stands. I'm not sure if they are actually finished with their work, but maybe they still have a chance to make changes before they send us a bill.

washingtonpost.com: More on the environmental bill question: In addition to the usual objectionable riders, they have not adequately funded the president's "Lands Legacy" initiative.

Williamsburg, Va.: Why, when it was so important for the Republicans to get the appropriations bills passed on time, were they so late?

Barry Toiv: Speaker Hastert did in fact make it his top priority this year to get the appropriations work done on time. We are now 19 days into the new fiscal year. The work is not anywhere near complete. And you have to wonder what Congress actually has accomplished over these last 10 months.

Atlanta, Ga.: Is the president prepared to continue government operations indefinitely through continuing resolutions? If Congress fails to negotiate an acceptable compromise with the president will the president allow government funding to lapse? How much time is the president prepared to give Congress to complete negotiations over the budget?

Barry Toiv: The fiscal year expired on Sept. 30. The president was willing to sign a three-week extension, which expires on the 21st. He is not interested in shutting the government down; he thinks that would be wrong. Unfortunately, the nation experienced that in 1995, and the American people don't deserve to have that happen again.

The president is willing to sign another extension, but only for a matter of days, not weeks. But you asked about "indefinitely." I think the answer to that is no. But if this process is kept on a short leash and we continue to make progress, then I don't anticipate a shutdown. But the bottom line is that Congress needs to get its work done.

Washington, D.C.: What do you say to criticism that President Clinton vetoed the foreign aid bill in retaliation to congressional Republicans?

Barry Toiv: This is a bill that has been so bad from the very beginning that they have known all along and we have said all along that it would be vetoed. It is unbelievable that the Congress is unwilling to fund our commitment to the Wye River Middle East Accord, and that they are unwilling to provide the funds that are needed to secure and destroy Russian nuclear weapons. These decisions by the Congress are potentially so damaging to the national interest that the president could never in good conscience accept them.

washingtonpost.com: But he is upset about the test ban treaty vote, isn't he?

Barry Toiv: The Senate made a horrible mistake in letting that vote occur. It was a reckless act, and the president is deeply concerned about its impact on our interests and on the world. But he intends to continue to fight for this treaty, and ultimately we believe that the CTBT will be ratified.

Chicago, Ill.: What is the way out of this mess? Will both sides agree on some sort of tax increase? Across the board cuts show that the Republicans have run out of ideas to set spending levels, and it is unfair to programs that deserve adequate funding.

Barry Toiv: The president proposed a budget that meets the challenges that we're facing on Medicare, Social Security, education and other critical priorities. He made the tough choices you need to make to fund these investments and pay down the debt. One of those is an increase in the taxes on tobacco products. And we believe that that makes sense as health policy and as budget policy. Too many kids smoke. If we increase the price of cigarettes, fewer kids would smoke. It's pretty simple. And we still believe that that is a more attractive alternative than either using the Social Security surplus or making the deep and harmful across-the-board cuts that would be required to protect the Social Security surplus with the bills that the Congress has currently passed.

In fact, the Congressional Budget Office has estimated that Republican appropriations bills have already spent $18 billion of the Social Security trust fund. And the Office of Management and Budget estimates that if we were to accept the idea of an across-the-board cut to prevent that, it would take a 9-percent cut in all programs, or 17 percent if defense were exempted.

Old Hickory, Tenn.: The Republicans in Congress have said there is not enough time to bring up prescription drug coverage for senior citizens the rest of the year. What is the administration's plan to going forward with this most crucial isssue?

Barry Toiv: The president is committed to continuing to work for reforms in Medicare that secure the trust fund and extend its life and that modernize the program, including providing a prescription drug benefit. It's very disappointing that the Congress could not accomplish a prescription drug benefit this year, but we hope to get this done next year. It is still possible that we can move the Congress to make a down payment on Medicare reform this year. We hope that that occurs, and maybe they'll talk about that today.

Adams Morgan: This is not a question about the budget, but about your job as Deputy Press Secretary, and I hope you're willing to answer it.

I assume that you, as a thinking person, have occassional disagreements on policy issues with the president for whom you speak. How do you deal with these disagreements on a private level? Is that one of the biggest challenges of a press liaison?

Barry Toiv: Sure, anybody who is working for somebody else, no matter what the field, is going to have to sometimes work or speak on behalf of policies they may not agree with 100 percent. But I very much believe in President Clinton and what he is trying to accomplish, and any minor disagreements I have are far outweighed by my support for his broad agenda.

Denver, Colo.: I have always been bothered by riders to legislation. Has there ever been any legislation to end this practice or to at least allow riders when they apply directly to the larger legislation being considered? What is the president's position on riders?

Barry Toiv: Legislative riders have been a problem for administrations for a lot longer than this administration has been in office. I think there's a tendency to support riders when you have a majority in the Congress, and oppose them when you don't. Congressional rules on this are a little bit complicated, but a majority tends to do whatever they want to do. But the president has shown on numerous occasions that he is willing and able to veto legislation that contains unacceptable riders.

washingtonpost.com: More on riders: And clearly, the Interior bill has been a prime example in recent years of a bill that gets loaded up with anti-environmental riders. And the president, by vetoing bills, or threatening vetoes, has been able to improve those bills substantially. And that is a process that will happen this year as well.

20009: How do you like working in the White House press office and do you miss working at OMB? Do you think once the '00 appropriations is completed that talks of breaking the caps will be high on the legislative agenda for next year?

Barry Toiv: I do enjoy working at the White House. I'm glad to have had the opportunity, although OMB is also a great organization with very, very capable people.

The president proposed that we stick to this year's spending caps, but believes that if we use a substantial portion of the anticipated surpluses over the next 10 years to extend the solvency of the Social Security and Medicare trust funds and to pay down the debt, that we can also use a portion of those surpluses to provide for additional defense and domestic spending in areas like education, law enforcement and the environment. And this would involve an increase in the discretionary spending caps, beginning in 2001.

Arlington, Va.: What was the President thinkin when he thwarted the will of the congress -such as it is- and decided not to split up DOE? Doesn't that increase chances it will be split up or abolished in the future?

Barry Toiv: Sec. Richardson has done an excellent job of strengthening security at the nuclear labs, and he is the most appropriate person to head this new agency within DoE on an interim basis until a nominee can be selected.

washingtonpost.com: That was our last question for White House spokesman Barry Toiv. Thanks to Mr. Toiv, and to everyone who participated today. Join us again this afternoon for discussions on youth violce with House Minority Leader Richard Gephardt (D-Mo.) and Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.).