Understanding Bloody Sunday
Wednesday, December 15th 1999 Noon EST

In 1972, British soldiers shot 14 Catholic demonstrators dead in the Northern Irish city of Derry. That incident, which came to be known as Bloody Sunday, was one of the catalysts that turned a generation from democracy to violence.

Bloody Sunday is being commemorated in a gripping photography exhibit touring the United States called Hidden Truths: Bloody Sunday 1972, curated by Trisha Ziff. The show can be seen at the University of Maryland's Art and Sociology Building, College Park campus. On January 29th, it will move on to the University of California Riverside.

Our guest today is Peter Pringle, an investigative journalist who in 1972 was sent by the London Sunday Times to Derry to investigate Bloody Sunday and its aftermath. He is currently writing a book about his findings.

To learn more about the history of Northern Ireland, click here.

To reach the Bloody Sunday Trust, click here.

washingtonpost.com: Welcome to the discussion. If you're interested in more information on "Hidden Truths", go to www.smartartpress.com/six/hidden.htm. Thanks in advance to everyone for participating.

Arlington, Virginia: "Bloody Sunday" was an absolutely horrible event, but does the pursuit of justice in this instance also open up the proverbial "Pandora's Box" for seeking justice in other tragedies that have consumed Northern Ireland for past thirty years, i.e. Enniskillen, Omagh, etc.? Where does it end? Does a "Truth and Reconcilation" body need to be established wherein all the participants are granted immunity for the horrors of "The Troubles" to be put to rest?

Peter Pringle: You ask a very important question. In the annals of the troubles, Bloody Sunday stands out from the other tragedies, at this distance, mainly because of the Widgery Inquiry. The Widgery inquiry was the first casualty, if you like, in attempt to get at the truth of what happened on that terrible day. It was conducted under an illusion of justice and fairness, but in fact, it was essentially a propaganda document, and meant to be so. Britain was at war with the IRA; let's not forget that Prime Minister Ted Heath reminded Widgery, on his appointment, that the propaganda war being waged by the IRA was as important as the military war, at that time. From the army's point of view, it was crucial to their future operations in Northern Ireland to be exonerated. The new Saville inquiry into Bloody Sunday is key for this initial launch into peace to bring "closure" for the relatives who suffered from Widgery's equivocal rulings: none of the dead or wounded were found to have been using a firearm, or throwing a bomb at the time they were shot, but the Widgery Report leaves the possibility open in many cases that they had been "close to" someone who had used a gun or a bomb. "Closure" can hopefully be attained--but it will take at least another 18 months. Then, as to other inquiries: a "truth and reconciliation body", as in South Africa, for example, depends on the government of the day, and that is now a changing body.

Washington D.C.: Do you think the new Bloody Sunday inquiry will be completed to the satisfaction of the victims families?

Peter Pringle: Probably not all the relatives will be satisified because the Saville Inquiry will still have unanswered questions about which soldier fired which shot etc. But most, hopefully, many will be satisifed with the truth as far as it can be attained. I would like to quote from one of the relatives who said, " I do not particulalrly care what the findings of the Inquiry are as long as they are the facts and the findings of what really happened. I do not need to find that [my relative] was a saint or a gunman or where he was in the middle, but I just want the findings to be the truth."

Harrisburg, Pennsylvania: Have you uncovered any evidence that indicates that members of the British army other than the First Parachute Regiment fired their weapons in Derry on January 30, 1972?

Peter Pringle: Yes, and this was known at the time of the Widgery Inquiry, but Lord Widgery never adressed the matter. Other shots were fired by soldiers from the Royal Anglian Regiment, for example. These other shots, about twenty in all, will be examined in the new inquiry.

College Park, MD: Some people say that the exhibition at the University of Maryland, Hidden Truths, just rubs salt in old wounds and does nothing positive for the peace process. As the Director of The Art Gallery hosting this exhibition, I feel that the exhibition helps people understand the pain and anger, and is a positive catalyst toward understanding and true peace. Can you address that?

Peter Pringle: Bloody Sunday happened almost 30 years ago. For the majority of the students at your university,[ and I commend you again for putting on the exhibition] this was something they had perhaps never heard of; this is a history lesson, if you will, but with deep meaning beyond pain and anger. This is an example of state violence and as we enter the next century we must all think about that, how it is still used and how it must be curbed. Bloody Sunday, therefore, has a much wider significance than Derry and Norther Ireland, and that is part of the value of this exhibition.

Severna Park, MD: What was the mood like in Derry in the weeks following the shootings? Has the feeling there changed over the years?

Peter Pringle: That is a good question because in the aftermath of the killings, it got lost. The overarching feeling, apart from the sadness of lost lives, was one of disbelief. When the Paras opened fire, people simply could not believe they were firing real bullets; they were used to rubber bullets and CS gas. Many of the eyewitness statements at the time, contain phrases, like "they'yre using real bullets", or "were those real bullets?'. That feeling of incredulity over the use of extreme force persists today.

Los Angeles, California: Has the American government had any involvement in the Bloody Sunday Inquiries?

Peter Pringle: Not as yet, as far as I know.

Derry N. Ireland: Peter do you think this new inquiry will reach any degree of thruth

Peter Pringle: Hello Derry, Clearly, the new inquiry has a better chance, doesn't it? It is not operating under the same constraints, especially time. It will include the shots from the City Walls, it will include a full rosta of the wounded. It will include all the several hundred statements from eyewitnesses. It will include several key government documents, either forced into the open by the inquiry, or declassified under normal review. Importantly, and this may turn out to be the key, it will included a number of new statements from some paratroopers, and a few of these have indicated that, with the passage of time, the soldiers are now willing to tell a different story. But whether, as I said earlier, the shot that killed or wounded, can in all cases by attributed to a specific soldier, a,b,c,etc, is doubtful, in my view.

Harrisburg, Pennsylvania: To what extent did the events known as "Bloody Sunday" contribute to the subsequent resurgence of the IRA?

Peter Pringle: After Bloody Sunday, the ranks of the IRA, especially in Derry swelled with embittered recruits many of whom in my view would not have joined up before. In that sense, Bloody Sunday was a significant military blunder and contributed to three decades of armed conflict.

Santa Monica, CA: The exhibition at College Park is largely made up of photographs. Will photographs be used as evidence in the new inquiry? We all know that an image is made from the point of view of one person--the photographer--and while capturing a moment it is impossible to reflect the full 'picture.' So what is the role of the photograph in the context of the
Saville Inquiry?

Peter Pringle: Thank you Santa Monica: Yes, photographs will be kew evidence in the new inquiry, as they were in the old, but their importance will come out strongly. Lord Widgery claimed, for example, that he could not unravel what happend in Glenfada Park because there was no photographic evidence. This was not true. It was complicated, no doubt, but the pictures available at the time were used by us to construct a time line for the dead and wounded. We could not have done it without them. There are anywhere up to a thousand photographs, by the way.

mississauga, Ontario: What is government doing to compensate the victims families and will a memorial be made for the victims

Peter Pringle: Thank you Canada. The families were compensated in the late seventies. Without giving you the full list, a 17 year-old youth who was shot dead at the barricade was awarded pounds sterling $250. The father of six, if I remember correctly, was given sterling 16,000. I have always wondered from what government actuarial table these kind of figures were worked out, and who was the civil servant who signed the cheque. I suppose we will never know.

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: Is the current inquiry likely to uncover the actual, specific orders given to the British army troops on 30 January 1972?

Peter Pringle: The actual orders are contained in an official army document that was available to Widgery. It basically ordered a "containment" of the march in the Bogside and, if neccessary, a "scoop up" operation--that occurred, of course. The question has always been whether the Para commander exceeded his orders--whether he sent in three companies of Paras instead of the one we know was ordered in from the radio log; and whether his troops extended the limit of the arrest operation by going much further down Rossville St than they were told to go. That will be keenly argued at the Inquiry, surely.

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania: Do you have an anticipated publication date for your upcoming book about Bloody Sunday?

Peter Pringle: Soon, sorry not to be more precise.

Kansas City, Missouri: With the setting up of the Assembly in the north, do you feel that the new All-Ireland Ministerial Councils or the Dublin government will be able to -or willing to-bring any pressure to bear on the British government to own up to its responsibility for the Bloody Sunday Massacre?

Greetings to our friends in Derry! Tiocfaidh ár lá, mo chairde!

Peter Pringle: Of course, it was the Dublin government that pushed Tony Blair into reopening the inquiry, so I expect Dublin to keep up the pressure, if there is any slacking.

Kansas City, Missouri: Mr. Pringle,
Do you see any similarities in the way the British Army acted in Derry in 1972 and the way the police acted a few weeks ago in Seattle? Do you think there is a growing trend in America that the police here are acting more and more like British security forces in Ireland? Do you think U.S. authorities are seeking advice from the Brits on how to squelch protesters? Do you have any advice for U.S. authorities in this regard?

Peter Pringle: There has been a growing use of sophisticated equipment in civilian crowd control situations--stemming from the Northern Ireland experience. We went from no bullets to rubber bullets to plastic bullets. We went through a range of delivery vehicles, if that's the term, for CS gas. And there has always been, at least since 1968 I guess, an exchange of information acorss the US-UK special relationship about crowd control etc. One should also not forget the Israeli experience in this regard.

Kansas City, Missouri: To what extent, if at all, do you feel that the British government is influencing the American media in an effort to cover up Bloody Sunday and all of the other injustices in Ireland?

Peter Pringle: How this works today, and the extent of it, is hard to say because we have to wait so long in Britain to find out what our government has been/is doing on behalf of its citizens. What we do know is that immediately after Bloody Sunday, on the night of, the British government pr machine rushed into action to make sure the images received by the US public were to the effect that the paratroopers had been fired on first and that among the dead were known gunmen/IRA members. We knew then that the story was somehwat different.

NY,NY: Is there anything that concerned Americans could do after viewing the Maryland exhibit to assist the families of the slain in their quest for justice?

Peter Pringle: There is a Bloody Sunday Trust that is headquartered in Derry, which is providing help for the relatives, especially during the harrowing time of the hearings of the new inquiry which start at the end of March.

washingtonpost.com: Those of you interested in reaching the Bloody Sunday Trust will find a link at the top of this page.

Kansas City, Missouri: Mr. Pringle,
In regard to the question from Arlington as to whether the Truth & Reconciliation processes would or should include immunity for those that carried out the atrocities --
Do you think immunity should be granted to a foreign invading army who murdered innocent people? -- An army who has yet to take responsibility for its actions.
The other groups that have committed atrocities have at least claimed the deeds. Isn't that the first step toward being eligible for immunity?

Peter Pringle: This is a tricky question: briefly, if you don't grant immunity why should the soldiers, or the IRA who fired on that, for that matter, come forward? Unpalatable as it is for the relatives not to have the soldier who killed their loved ones brought to justice, the question is what are we seeking here: revenge or the truth? My understanding is that most, not all, but most of the relatives, want the truth.

Scranton, Pennsylvania: Can you briefly characterize how the anticipated statements of the British soldiers who are now willing to speak more frankly are likely to differ from the official findings of the Widgery Report?

Peter Pringle: Again, briefly; the statements taken at the time were made to Military Police and to lawyers from the Widgery Inquiry. Since then, at least one paratrooper and possibly more, have come forward on their own, and made what appear to be significant additions. Whether these additions are genuine will be addressed by the new Saville Inquiry.

washingtonpost.com: Unfortunately we've run out of time. Thanks to Peter Pringle and all the participants. Those of you who would like to continue the conversation can click here. Once again, many thanks to all for a provocative hour.

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