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    Phyllis Richman – Live!
    Hosted by Phyllis Richman
    Washington Post Staff Writer

    Thursday, December 3, 1998

    menu
    By Elisa Nader/washingtonpost.com
    Washington Post food critic Phyllis C. Richman recently came to the Internet – live on Style Live!

    In more than two decades of critiquing Washington restaurants – from the hautest temple of gastronomy to the most obscure off-the-beaten track discovery – Richman has become a household name for everyone in our area who loves to eat.

    Every Thursday at noon, Phyllis will be on hand to answer your questions and field your comments about dining out in Washington. And, you can read Phyllis's Sunday reviews on Friday – only on the Web!

    Phyllis mentions several restaurants during her discussions. If you are hungry to find out more – prices, location, hours, dress code, etc. – visit our restaurant front, go to the "Find Places & Events" search box, enter a restaurant name or category, select "Search StyleLive" and click "Search Now."

    Following is the transcript from this Thursday's chat.

    dingbat






    Phyllis Richman: Hello, everyone. Here it is, the week after Thanksgiving, and it's another sidewalk-cafe sort of Thursday. What luck!

    Have you all finished your turkey leftovers/ Anyone out there find a new ideal way to cook turkey? I haven't solved the problem yet of getting the breast meat cooked just right without undercooking the rest (or drying out the breast and cooking the thighs properly). Next year I'll buy two smalller turkekys and revert to the turning procedure, cooking it upside down , then on each side.

    Now, to reastaurants.


    Wash Dc: What are Rocky Mountain Oysers and where can I get them?

    Phyllis Richman: Rocky mountain oysters are the private parts of the animal--lamb, as I recall, but it could be sheep or whatever. Anyway, they're usually served fried, not served around here that I know of. I've had them at county fairs, usually in the midwest.


    Washington DC: Critic's veracity quiz: Have you ever written a review that, in retrospect, you regretted or was in error?

    Phyllis Richman: Given that I've reviewed thousands of restaurants, of course I have written review that I've regretted and that have been in error. Sometimes I've felt after return visits that I was too hard on a restaurant, other times too easy. Restaurants are like shifting sands, always, changing, and a review is trying to capture in a few visits what the restaurant is going to be like at some other time for some other person. Also, it is sometimes hard to get the tone of the review right...as in the following:


    Arlington, VA: Regarding your review of the Korean sushi restaurant in last Sunday's magazine, I could not understand the point you were trying to make. Was the recently demised fish bad because it was the restaurant's fault for serving bad quality sushi, or was your point that it is a bad idea for any restaurant to serve fish that has just been killed because the fish simply has not had enough time to die and won't taste right? Also, I couldn't really figure out if you were giving the restaurant's non-sushi items a positive or negative review in general. Please clarify.

    Phyllis Richman: In this review of Bee Won Secret Garden, I was not reviewing the restaurant as a whole, but writing about one unique experience, available only at this restaurant. I liked the restaurant a lot, thought the service was way beyond the call of duty and quite charming, and meant to get that point across. The other foods were quite good, though I didn't sample many. But the experience of the live fish eclipsed all else--for the readers as well as for us, I think. Nor did I mean to criticize the restaurant for the fish being bland. It was good fish--obviously as fresh as could be--and a delicacy to some. I meant this as a cultural comment: I, with my American experience and taste, was not able to appreciate this raw flounder, which apparently Koreans appreciate for its texture more than its flavor. It was a scene-setting, a cultural tale and not a complaint about the restaurant by any means.


    Rockville, MD: Although there is no way I'd ever even consider sitting at the same table with raw fish, I commend you for trying it! Will you ever do it again?

    Phyllis Richman: Sure. But I'd rather have it without the head and tail reminding my of its recent demise.


    Laurel, Maryland: Hi Phyllis,

    My wife and I don't get downtown at night very often anymore, but the other night we did happen to be near Farraget North and we were looking for a restaurant. We noticed that Gustis Restaurant, on the corner of 19 th and M Street, was closed - and looked somewhat boarded up. That place has been around at least since I've been in the area (1975) and was surprised to see it closed. What happened and when?

    Thank You --John

    Phyllis Richman: Gusti's is indeed boarded up.It was around at least as far back as the 50s, but it didn't keep up with the times. It was crowded out, I imagine, but plenty of far better Italian restaurants. But it is a very visible corner, and I look forward to seeing what goes in there next.


    Arlington, VA: Regarding the turkey tricks - I learned a new one this year watching a cooking show. To maintain the moisture in the turkey, don't carve it right out of the oven. Let it "set" -- in the oven with the door open -- for 20 minutes or so. It allows the juices under the skin to reabsorb into the meat of the turkey (instead of spill out during the slicing).

    Phyllis Richman: Absolutely. That's an important point for any roasted meat--indeed, for any cooked protein.


    Springfield, VA: Dear Phyllis -

    Hello! When you review ethnic restaurants, do you ever bring someone who was raised in and/or is from that particular area? There are probably places where you haven't had the opportunity to travel yet, so I was wondering if you ever enlist any help on the authenticity of the food. I really enjoy your column, thanks!

    Phyllis Richman: Thanks for your compliment.

    Yes, I do take people who are familiar with a country whose food is unfamiliar to me. It helps a lot. I also read whatever I can on the food, look at cookbooks to get a sense of the flavors to be expected.


    Washington, DC: Phyllis,
    I'm looking for a good Jewish/Kosher style dairy place (like Ratners in NYC)around DC. With Chanukah coming up, I thought it'd be more fun to go out for potato latkes than to burn myself with hot oil again this year. Got any suggestions?

    Phyllis Richman: I don't have any really good suggestion for you. We don't have kosher style dairy restaurants here, though some of the delis make their own potato latkes. The best I've had this year were, surprisingly, at a steakhouse, Max's, across from the Old Executive Office Building. Sounds like an expensive proposition to order them there, though.


    Potomac MD: re: the turkey. Ihave had excellent result cooking the tukey in a Weber Kettle Grill. The cooking time is decreased and the proximity of the coals to the thighs and legs cook those parts faster. Also 2 small birds are always a better bet than one hugh monster.

    Phyllis Richman: So next year need to buy two smaller turkeys and a Weber grill.


    Silver Spring: Back to the dry turkey breast, what I have tried very successfully is to stuff the cavity with an onion and an apple and maybe even some celery and the breast meat comes out very moist along with the rest of the meat.

    Phyllis Richman: Oh, I know, but I love the stuffing cooked in the bird.


    Arlington, VA: Hi Phyllis - I was wondering if you have heard anything about or tried the new restaurant Le Tarbouche on K street ?

    Phyllis Richman: It's brand new and I haven't tried it, but I have heard that the food is very elegantly presented and the menu is quite ambitious. I, however, am suspicious of grape leaves stuffed with truffle risotto. I'll look forward to testing it out, though.


    Farragut North, DC: I am interested in trying out some Moroccan food in the area. Where do you recommend? And any favorite dishes? I enjoy this weekly chat, although I've missed the last couple. When is your new guide coming out?

    Phyllis Richman: To get the important part first: My new restaurant guidebook will be out next week. Whew! It has 225 restaurant reviews, most of them revised from the previous edition and many of them never reviewed by me before. It should be in Giant supermarkets as well as bookstores.

    Now, to what the rest of you care about: There are several Moroccan restaurants (Marrakesh on NY Ave, Taste of CAsablanca in Arlington, Dar Es Salam in Georgetown, and perhaps Casablanca in Alexandria). Don't miss bisteeya, a chicken (or pigeon) pie made with eggs, raisins, almonds and--surprising but good--powdered sugar on top. And the slaads, spiciy and tart, are generally wonderful in Moroccan restaurants.


    Rockville, MD: I noticed that Teaism was one of your 50 favorites this year. I like the food there, and the tea, of course, is great, but I've never been crazy about all the little signs telling me what to do. For a restaurant that has you pick up your food and find your own tables, it has an awful lot of signs directing you to be aware of people waiting for tables, and telling you not to be seated until you have your food. I think that this is basic courtesy, and that the people who aren't going to do it aren't going to do it even with a sign. I find it very irritating and not a little bit condescending. What do you think?

    Phyllis Richman: I'm afraid that's the price of a very small restaurant becoming exceedingly popular. Too bad.


    Frederick, Md: After three hours in line to see Van Gogh, we were hungry, cold and tired. My nephew wanted to go to Red Sage. I gasped! but that's not even on Phyllis' Top Fifty anymore! But it was convenient. Unfortunately it was 12:30 on a Friday afternoon and we couldn't handle another wait but the hostess mentioned that there was no one at the bar in the downstairs dining room and we wouldn't have to wait. It was fantastic! It was right in front of the Chef's line so we watched everyone's food being prepared and conversed with the Chef himself. It was an impromtu chef's table. It was warm and we were treated as equals among diners. And the food was pretty good too! So sometimes circumstance plays a big part in one's dining pleasure.

    Phyllis Richman: Red SAge certainly can be good--and fun. prefer it for just such occasions: a casual, modestly priced lunch rather than a grand and expensive dinner.


    college park,MD: Dear Phyllis
    My wife and I went to NY city during Thanksgiving weekend.
    On Saturday night, bunch of us wanted to get some appetizers and drinks, so we stopped by this cafe/bar/restraunt. The host would not give us table unless we order dinner. The restraunt was full except one last table for five of us. Were we unfairly treated because we were NOT going to contribute to this cafe/bar/restraunt's revenue on busy Saturday night? I understand if this restraunt exclusively serve dinner only, but it had a sign saying "cafe/bar/restraunt."

    Peter

    Phyllis Richman: Here's where your needs clash with the realities of running a business. A restaurant depends on SAturday night to keep it profitable. If a table is taken up in the middle of a SAturday night by a table ordering just a snack, the restaurant loses its best opportunity for making money. Think of those chairs as rentals, and you'll understand that it can't afford "off season" rentals in the middle of its "high season." It's not that the restaurant is being grasping, it just has a limited number of time periods in which to earn the revenue it needs.


    University Park MD: We'll be venturing down to the 23rd St. (Crystal City?) part of Arlington for an evening at the Washington Shakespeare Theater. This is uncharted territory for us. Any restaurant suggestions?

    Phyllis Richman: I don't know any great restaurant along that stretch of Crystal City, but it is a terrific gathering of all kinds of modest ethnic restaurants, so just read the menus and pick what sounds good--Thai, Ethiopian, Vietnamese, Italian, etc. etc.


    Arlington, VA: I was wondering how you felt about one of your identities being revealed in the City Paper a few weeks back?

    Phyllis Richman: It wasn't the City Paper, but another magazine. Fortunately, I have plenty of identities--and it got that one wrong anyway.Accuracy has never been that magazine's strong suit, thank goodness.


    Mt. Pleasant, DC: Re: Turkey. We brined the bird this year. Soaked it in the frigde overnight in saltwater. The turkey was decidely more moist and tender than usual. No powdery breast meat! We also used an organic, free-range bird. Yum!

    Phyllis Richman: I haven't tried brining a turkey yet; I don't have a basin big enough. It's intrigued me, though I must confess that at the two restaurants I've tried that brine their chickens, I've found the meat pasty and salty.


    Washington, DC: why did you ignore my report to your staff several years ago of inexcusably rude treatment at Gallileo? is is because Roberto Donna is one of your favorites, and you won't go public with criticism?

    Phyllis Richman: One, I don't have a staff, so you couldn't have reported to my staff. Two, I have been critical of Galileo's service when it has been warranted (e.g. my comments in the fall dining guide). Three, of course Galileo is one of my favorites; it happens to be one of the most accomplished and ambitious Italian restaurants in the country, and despite its frustrating flaws, it is a great restaurant. Where would you have me go more public with my criticism than in the Post?


    Arlington, VA: In response to the question about places in Crystal City - there's a Vietnamese restaurant that I don't remember the name of on the south side of 23rd street that is pretty good. Demera, the Ethiopian place, is better than the other restaurants in Crystal City also. Many of the restaurants on 23rd street however serve only average food from our experiences there.

    Phyllis Richman: Exactly.

    The Vietnamese restaurant is Saigon Crystal, and it has some good dishes but is uneven. Still, dinner on its wooden deck is delightful. I also like Demera, which is just off 23rd St.


    Centreville, VA: Do you know any restaurants in DC that serve a good celery root salad?

    Phyllis Richman: French restaurants are the most likely. La Fourchette, for example.


    Chicago, Illinois: Here in Chicago we have a company that owns a variety of restaurants and provides gift certificates that can be used at any of its Lettuce Entertain You restaurants. Is there something like that in DC? I was hoping to get some stocking stuffers for my folks but want to let them have some choice as to the restaurant.

    Phyllis Richman: It's a good idea. I don't know of any that specifically do that here, but I would think that owners with several restaurants (Clyde's/Old Ebbitt, Galileo/I Matti/etc., Vidalia/Bis, etc.) would be willing if you approached them with the idea.


    Alexandria, VA: In response to the question about Gustis ....

    We were told by the restaraunt down the street that the building was sold. They heard that the building will be torn down and another "high rise" will be built.

    Phyllis Richman: Too bad. It's a charming building.


    Vienna, VA: This year, as we did several other years, we had reservations at Mrs. Simpson's for Thanksgiving dinner. This year however, I got a message on my answering machine the weekend before that they had closed. What happened?

    P.S. We did get reservations at the Oval Room and had a very nice meal.

    Phyllis Richman: Yes, here's another restaurant that closed. The rumor is that it is a family disagreement and a court fight that closed it and that it might open again. But I haven't' verified this.

    Germaine's, too, has closed. A sad moment.


    Washington, D.C.: We were pleasantly surprised at Cafe Ole last week. It seems the Chef is having some fun: Fresh sardines, sweet potato soup with proscuitto and a whole sea bass for two. Both dinner and wine prices were amazingly cheap - we would like to spread the word - a great evening!

    Phyllis Richman: I'm glad his potential is being realized. He is definitely talented, but wasn't doing such elaborate entrees when I was there.


    University Park MD: Not a query but an answer. Cook's Illustrated magazine Nov/Dec 1997 had a really useful feature on getting the turkey right, with thigh done and breast not overdone. As usual they tested various methods until they found a good one. Key points: 1. brine the turkey overnight 2. flip the bird 3. vary the roasting temp--high (400), then low (250), and finish high.

    Phyllis Richman: I clipped that article but then decided that the procedure would dominate Thanksgiving day, so opted for a simpler method.


    Arlington, VA: In re: the gift certificate question, how about the company that owns Carlyle Grand? I seem to remember a small poster in there with a variety of restaurant names on it, all owned by the same company. I can't remember the name, of course.

    Phyllis Richman: That's an excellent idea.


    Washington, DCq: thanks for responding to my query about Gallileo; as for your not having staff -- when i asked for you i was connected to SOMEONE,

    Phyllis Richman: Ah,the mysterious SOMEONE.


    Washington, DCq: RE: maintaining a moist turkey -- we followed a method provided in the New York Times food section of cooking the bird at a lower temp (it said 250, but i insisted on 300) for three hours, then raising the temp to 400 til brown and done. it was wonderful.

    Phyllis Richman: That makes sense in terms of not toughening the protein. I did look at an interesting chapter on the thermodynamics of cooking turkey in a new book on the science of Christmas (it was reviewed in Book World on Sunday, so you can find it on this Washington Post site).


    Wash. DC: This is not a criticism, so please don't take it as one, but I am wondering how you are so confident about the comments you make about the food you eat. For instance, things are often too firm, or too soft, or too bland, or over-laden with a particular spice. It seems to me when I eat something that I am not really familiar with, which is especially common these days, I always assume that the chef intended for it to be the way it was prepared, and either don't like it or like it, but couldn't really say it wasn't prepared correctly. Do you know how all the food you eat should be prepared? Thanks.

    Phyllis Richman: There are two answers to this question. The first is that I've been a critic for many years, and it is my job to know what dishes should be like. The second is that as a critic, I am offering my (presumedly expert) opinion, not scientific fact, and it should be taken as educated opinion. Others might have different "expert" opinions, and a reader has to pick his/her expert.


    Rockville, MD: Not that I'd ever try them, but what do Rocky Mountain Oysters taste like? I'd love to know who first decided to try them!

    Phyllis Richman: I can't tell you who that brave soul was, but I can tell you that they taste a little like gizzards, though more tender.


    Washington DC: Phyllis,
    This is Gerard Pangaud. I wanted to take this opportunity to let you know that not all restaurants mark up the wines up to three times. We at Vintage Wine Bistro, are selling all wines at retail prices! So that bottle of Silver Oak Cabernet Sauvignon from Alexander Valley is $50. on our new list. Or that bottle of Moet & Chandon Brut Rose is only $36.

    -Gerard Pangaud

    Phyllis Richman: Thanks for your input. Another person also suggested I mention that Tahoga sells its wines for half price at lunch. Sounds like a lovely idea for taking advantage of its beautiful back garden.


    Washington, DC: Phyllis - have you heard any feedback from the Prime Rib after the comment a few weeks ago about their allegedly less-than-cordial attitude to non-regulars? In July we arrived promptly for a reservation, but were kept waiting 10-15 minutes. Other than that, the service was good. WOuld you consider that wait acceptable or not? I was somewhat annoyed, but maybe I'm too critical(?)

    Phyllis Richman: Nobody likes waiting, but given that we expect a restaurnt to hold our table if we are 15 minutes late, we should allow it the latitude of needing 15 minutes to have our table available. Dinners are not like movies--they last different amounts of time. And a restaurant has to make educated guesses about when tables will be available when it takes its reservations.


    Arlington, VA: For the person who can't remember what company owns the Carlyle Grand Cafe, it's the Great American Restaurant, Co.

    Phyllis Richman: Thanks.


    DC: About the gift certificate: the group that owns or manages Georgetown Seafood Grill on 19th has a gift certificate thing going on and there are about 6 or 7 restaurants involved. I can't think of the name, in fact, Georgia Brown's is part of it. So maybe the person can call one of those restaurants and ask. Wish I could be more helpful.

    Phyllis Richman: What a knowledgeable group you all are! Thanks.


    Washington, DC: sorry i hit the return key by accident -- i was saying that when i asked for you to discuss our bad experience at Gallileo, i was connected to someone, who I took to be (or was told was) your assistant, or something along that line. keep in mind this WAS several years ago...but it has always nagged at me. the treatment was really inexcusable -- they refused to make good on a fish entree that was "off" tasting -- said we would be charged for it! i would never return, needless to say, regardless of how sublime the food is. i had hoped to see this incident in your "Turning Tables," but you never called me to follow up or printed the info. oh well.....

    Phyllis Richman: I get way more complaints about restaurants than I could ever print in Turning Tables, so it's no wonder that yours didn't show up. I try to at least talk to the restaurnts about problems I hear even if I can't write about them all. But every restaurant makes mistakes, just as every diner does. One mistake - or even one indifferent response to an complaint - shouldn't be the measure of a restaurant.


    washington, DC: this is a lot of fun -- do you do this on a regular basis, or did i just get lucky?

    Phyllis Richman: Every Thursday, noon t 1 p.m. Bring a sandwich.


    McLean, VA: Do you know of some restaurants in Washington that have special New Year's Eve menus and entertainment?

    Phyllis Richman: Nearly every restaurant has a special New Years Eve menu, but I will warn you once again that it's' oneof the two worst nights to dine out (the other is Valentine's Day). The menus tend to be expensive, the restaurants are crowded, the cooking is likely to be at its worst - at least in most restaurants - and in no way is it the best time to enjoy a restaurant. On the restaurant's side, people stay a long time, get drunk and raucous and often book a table and don't show up. It's a disastrous night for many restaurants.

    Why not gather all these turkey-cooking tips and buy a bottle of champagne and save your money for the weekend after New Years?

    Time's up, and there were lots of interesting questions left. Sorry to have missed them all. I'll be here again next week (and signing my book at Borders at 18th and L STs. on Dec. 10).

    So long.


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