LeVar Burton Actor and Director Wednesday, June 25, 2003; 2:00 p.m ET
The film industry is devoting more time and money than ever before to fighting online piracy. Actor and director LeVar Burton -- best known for his roles as Geordi LaForge on "Star Trek: The Next Generation" and Kunta Kinte in "Roots," and for his work with public television's "Reading Rainbow" program -- is a keen participant in the debate over the Internet and copyright law. Burton, who has directed several films and numerous television programs, also has spoken out about online file-sharing before the California State Senate. Submit Your Questions and Comments: Burton will be online to take your questions starting at 2:00 p.m. ET on Wednesday, June 25. washingtonpost.com's Robert MacMillan will moderate the discussion. Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
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Robert MacMillan: Good afternoon. Thanks for joining us for a Live Online chat with actor and director LeVar Burton, who is here to discuss online piracy, digital music and movie file trading and intellectual property on the Internet. LeVar, how big is the online piracy problem, and how is it affecting the film and TV industries these days?
LeVar Burton: Great question. Everybody's aware of the issue of piracy and peer-to-peer networks. And for the industries of film and television, the issues are only just coming into focus as the technology improves to the point where one can download large files, but the issues remain the same. The issues of creative, as well as economic rights, for the artists involved.
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Washington, D.C.: I'm a huge fan of both ST TNG and Reading Rainbow. But here's a question: If file sharing and piracy can spread your work to new audiences and new people who can enjoy it, isn't that a good thing?
LeVar Burton: You bring up a good point. Most artists do have a vested interest in wanting new audiences to explore, however those concerns in my view do not outweigh the moral and ethical issues involved in what is essentially theft. Let me speak for a moment about the way most directors are compensated -- not only do we rely on the initial fee for our services, but we also depend heavily on a 40-year-old system instituted in the entertainment industry called residuals. These residual payments for additional airings of TV product also are responsible for major contributions to pension plans. No residual payments, no pension plan contributions, and we as directors end up losing what amounts to, for some of us, up to 40 percent of our annual income.
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Richmond, Va.: I have no problem paying for music and video via the Internet but until they make it as easy to use as the programs that facilitate pirating I do not think it will happen. This would require a large library of material, easy and affordable payment, and the ability to copy. What are your thoughts?
LeVar Burton: Have you tried the new Mac program for the iPod (iTunes?)? This, for me, is a great example of the right kind of technology that needs to be employed. I think they're charging 99 cents a song. I think that copyright holders are going to be much more willing to make available vast storehouses of material and resources, once some of these issues are settled. I think there's one issue that we're not talking about that is worth mentioning here: what we have in America is a whole generation of consumers who believe that because material is available on the Internet, that it's free and fair game. I don't think we're doing a good enough job educating the public about the ethical issues around downloading copyrighted material. I have a 23-year-old son who has this mindset. He and his friends don't believe it's wrong to, in effect, steal copyrighted material. I would like to see more outreach on the part of the music, television and movie industries in terms of educating the general public.
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Harrisburg, Pa.: You have testified regarding online piracy on movies before the California legislature. Harrisburg is Pennsylvania's capital, so are question from here is: is this a state issue, a federal issue, or both? What can state governments do to combat online piracy?
LeVar Burton: Another great question. I think state legislatures have an opportunity and responsibility to navigate this issue fairly on behalf of both consumer constituents as well as those of large business. One of the enjoyable things for me in going to Sacramento was meeting with lawmakers who seemed to be absolutely up to date on both the technology aspects, as well as the issues of creative and economic rights.
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Washington, D.C.: Since you're a director, or rather a creator of content, I value your opinion. I don't own a tv as I can simply download all the tv shows I like and watch them on my computer. I do this because I feel I've been cheated by the advertising industry and I no longer want to support them (see US West's "Life's better here" and AOL's "Bug Free" false advertising class action suits for some reasons why). I'm willing, and have, purchased content I decide I like on DVD to ensure that you continue to make content I like to watch. But what is your opinion of my methods?
LeVar Burton: You bring up a couple of issues. I'm glad to hear that you take the step of buying content that you like and want to keep, and what that seems to mean to me is that you buy movies, but download TV. My question to you is, what about the artists involved in television content? You feel you have a right to have that content without paying for it. There's no question that the television airways are dominated by commercial advertising, but there are still actors, writers, directors, camera operators and the like who rely on residual payments.
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D.C.: Yesterday the Post featured a discussion with one of the companies that make P2P software that enables file trading on the Internet. From his perspective, he thinks that somehow users' rights are being violated if companies like his aren't allowed to exist. What would you say to him in response?
He also likened his software to a VCR. I think this argument falls short because a VCR has a clear purpose other than bootlegging movies and television shows. What are your thoughts?
LeVar Burton: Well I'm not surprised that Mr. Rosso takes the position that he does. After all, he stands at great financial risk should his service be deemed illegal by the courts.
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Robert MacMillan: Grokster President Wayne Rosso: Transcript
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Walla Walla, Wash.: Thanks so much Mr. Burton for your work with children and helping to increase literacy. I am a librarian, and these are very important issues to me.
As you said earlier, "... depend heavily on a 40-year-old system instituted in the entertainment industry called residuals". Isn't it time the industry embraces technology, and realizes that in the digital age, systems of compensation that are 40 years old don't work in the 21st century?
Further, I'd hope that high-profile entertainers lobby forcefully for the Congress to also come to terms with the digital age, and address the inadequacies of the existing copyright laws.
LeVar Burton: You make a good point. Are the current systems of compensation outdated, outmoded and ineffective? At least for now, they're the only means we have in place. But perhaps an overall review is in order.
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Dupont Circle, Washington, D.C.: Now, I've never downloaded a music file from the Internet because, well, I don't know how. But, being monumentally broke, I also haven't bought a CD in a really, really long time. I have to say that I think one of the root causes of rampant online piracy is that music and movies are so damn expensive. Twenty bucks for a single CD? Nine bucks for an afternoon show in Georgetown? Five bucks for a movie rental? The prices, especially for CDs, are absolutely ludicrous. Destroy all the computers you want, Mr. Hatch, but online piracy will never really be brought into check until this root cause is addressed. Madonna and the record companies feel violated? I feel violated. I just want to hear some tunes and not have it sap my entertainment budget for the whole week. I may have to figure this downloading stuff just out of principle because I'm getting peeved -- and I'm not getting any richer.
LeVar Burton: I sympathize with you and your situation. I know for my own part that I'm paying a lot more these days for bread, milk and gas than I did 20 years ago. You're right, entertainment IS more expensive today than it was at one time in our history, but then again, everything is.
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Washington, D.C.: Hi LaVar,
Thanks for joining us today. I was wondering how long you have been an advocate for IP protection. How did you become involved?
LeVar Burton: I became involved as a result of my membership in the Directors Guild of America. I'm currently an alternate member of the board of directors, as well as one of the sitting co-chairs of the African-American steering committee. The issues we're discussing today are issues that are of supreme importance to my colleagues and I in the entertainment community. In the past 18 months, I've gotten really involved in the issue.
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Union City, Calif.: Levar, what are your thoughts on the long-term for information exchange? Should movies, music, and other documents eventually be available to all in a vast online public library, or should the originators of works control them in perpetuity?
LeVar Burton: I believe that the originators of works and their heirs should be able to control copyrighted material as long as renewals are allowed by law. There are, as I'm sure you're aware, certain works that fall into the category of public domain. Those works are available for general use by the public at large.
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Arlington, Va.: Could it be that the old business model is dead? It will be difficult for courts to stop file-sharing if 50 million users in the U.S. alone are guilty? Are we simply going through the digital equivalent of Prohibition?
LeVar Burton: That remains to be seen. The RIAA has just announced today that they're going after what they consider to be egregious file sharers. If this is the digital equivalent of prohibition, then the question becomes how much moonshine should I be able to make for my own personal use?
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Arlington, Va.: LeVar:
This issue is truly a red herring being proferred by the entertainment industry -- the same industry that tried to stop the sale of VCRs 30 years ago because it feared that the movie industry would suffer (as if!) and before that tried to regulate the sale and technology of blank audio cassette tapes, fearing that taping would cut into the sale of LPs (which likewise never happened).
Why should we believe you or the industry now? For every survey that suggests that file sharing is hurting the sale of CDs, for example, there is another survey that shows that it is the high cost -- and inferior quality of the product -- that is the real reason.
LeVar Burton: I'm not here today representing any multinational conglomerate. I represent the rank and file actors and directors who have a legitimate and vested interest in maintaining their creative and economic rights.
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Cleveland, Ohio: Traditionally, a purchaser of a book or an album was able to keep their copy for life (or the life of medium) and was also able to sell, trade or give away their legitimately obtained copy. It seems that in order to fight piracy, the media industry (e.g., the RIAA) will also have the ability to control material far beyond what it was traditionally able to. That is, “big media” could use anti-piracy technology and/or laws to control the transfer, distribution and shelf-life of content that was legitimately obtained rather than pirated. What, if any, issues do you see with increased corporate control over non-pirated material, or is this a red herring?
LeVar Burton: I don't see that anyone is trying to control what happens to copyrighted material once it's purchased legitimately. Once you buy a DVD, no one's stopping you from sharing that movie experience with your friends and family in a legitimate manner, the way you would loan a friend your copy of "Catcher in the Rye."
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Austin, Texas: I'd like to know your opinions on users right, especially as related to legal (copyright extensions) and technological (encryption) use restrictions. In particular, I'd like to hear your thoughts on how these use restrictions affect public domain (or formerly public domain) works as well as those works that are no longer being distributed due to lack of interest by any company.
LeVar Burton: A very sticky issue, because essentially what you're talking about is obscure material that is not readily available through traditional distribution outlets. So the issue becomes one of fan appreciation versus the economic rights of the estate of said artist. You make the call.
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San Diego, Calif.:
Do you have any suggestions as to how I might
persuade my 18 year old that piracy is
'wrong?" He sees nothing wrong with it, and
certainly doesn't care about your pensions
being affected by his listening to his
favorite music.
LeVar Burton: As a parent, I struggle with this all the time. My suggestion to you is to find something in your child's life that they have created. Their poetry, or artwork, for instance, and get them to imagine how it might feel to have their creation marketed without their permission or involvement. It might help to bring the issue home.
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Washington, D.C.: I think if more content providers (such as Sony, Universal, etc) were willing to sell their stuff on a per usage basis, people would respect that. There is so much content that is just inaccessible. For example, if I wanted to see an older episode of the A-Team (an old fav), I need to have TiVo and hope that it's on somewhere. In this day and age, I should be able to go to the studio site, pay a fee and download it.
It's like the library versus the bookstores...we need both!
LeVar Burton: I agree. I think we must exercise a little patience here in letting the content providers catch up to the obvious thirst and demand that exists in the marketplace. I think in the future you will be able to do just that. It's just going to take us a couple of years.
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Arlington, Va.: Some musicians have been blasted by fans for being anti-technology for not embracing file sharing. That is how some of their songs get so popular in the first place. Do actors face the same backlash?
LeVar Burton: I don't think so. I haven't heard of any backlash against actors in particular, at least not yet.
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Arlington, Va.: Thank you for taking the time to deal with some of these issues in such a public fashion. I feel it's dialogues like these that will ultimately lead to solutions both sides can be comfortable with. I'd like to address the question put forth by the librarian about the 40 year old residual system. I can only speak for myself, but I would definitely be willing to pay a small monthly fee to download content from a provider such as SCIFI or Cartoon Network, that would be commercial free. How would you feel about that?
LeVar Burton: I'm very much in favor of that. I believe that it's this kind of solution that we're headed for. Content providers charging a nominal fee to users on either a monthly or per-use basis is a model that makes absolute sense to me. There's value in it for both sides.
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Alexandria, Va.: How would you as an artist revamp the current business model of entertainment compensation, including residuals? Or would you? BTW, another longtime fan...Reading Rainbow came on TV first when I was squarely in that age group and I always loved it.
LeVar Burton: I wouldn't know how to begin to revamp the current system of residual payments. Thankfully, smarter people than me will be given that task. Thanks for your long-term support of Reading Rainbow. I'm definitely proud of my 20-year association with what I consider to be the best use of the medium of TV.
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Takoma Park, Md.:
I know this is off-topic, but has "Reading Rainbow" found a new corporate sponsor?
It's such a great show! I'd hate to see it go off the air due to lack of funds.
LeVar Burton: Thanks for your question. At present I'm happy to announce that PBS has decided to commit $2 million over the next two years to fund new production for Reading Rainbow. It's sort of a good-news-bad-news situation. The good news is they've stepped up to the plate. The bad news is it's the least amount of money they've given us in our 20-year tenure, so we're not quite out of the woods yet. We're still looking for a corporate partner to come through with matching funds.
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Washington, D.C.:
Levar, is there going to be another Star Trek movie??
Thanks,
Eric in DC
LeVar Burton: Eric! I wish I could sit here today and tell you definitively that there will be another Star Trek movie. Unfortunately that decision does not rest in my hands. I can say that should we be asked, the cast is ready and willing.
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DC: Fans like to say that the distribution of material online helps to bolster the fame of the muscians. There is no evidence that this is the case, and I speak from personal experience.
However, there is a case where the free distribution of animated material online contributed to the launch of a huge brand - that being South Park.
What would you say to independant film makers and even musicians who see the internet as a way of getting their name out there - perhaps in helping them to get noticed by larger distributers.
Since your organization and the RIAA don't represent all artists, how do you feel about essentially quashing independant artists through the muscle that you can flex on behalf of your stronger/larger lobby?
LeVar Burton: I think the Internet can be a great vehicle for emerging artists to get noticed and gain a fan base. But again, this is a voluntary activity. They're putting their music up of their own accord, and the tradeoff is exposure.
I don't think the directors guild has any interest in quashing artists that it doesn't represent, but we invite qualified directors into our membership and spend a lot of time, effort and energy in fighting for their rights.
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Robert MacMillan: That's all the time we're going to have today. Thanks very much to everyone who submitted questions, and thanks also to LeVar.
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