|
One Year Later: Frontline: 'Faith and Doubt at Ground Zero'
With Helen Whitney
Producer, "Frontline"
Thursday, Sept. 12, 2002; 11 a.m. ET
It's been a year since the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and still the questions linger -- including perhaps the ultimate question: Where was God on Sept. 11?
FRONTLINE's "Faith and Doubt at Ground Zero," airing Tuesday, Sept. 3, at 9 p.m. ET on PBS (check local listings), explores how the spiritual lives of both believers and unbelievers have been challenged in the aftermath by difficult questions of good and evil, God's culpability, and the potential for darkness within religion itself. PBS will also air a special encore broadcast of the documentary on Wednesday, Sept. 11, at 8 p.m. ET. Producer Helen Whitney was online Thursday, Sept. 12 to discuss the two-hour documentary.
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
washingtonpost.com:
Good morning, Helen, and welcome. Your documentary illustrated some profound points, both about how people experience their faith and how they express it to others. Particularly interesting was the Lutheran priest who was charged with heresy for speaking at the Yankee Stadium ceremony because he shared a podium with non-Christians. What happened? How and where is he now?
Helen Whitney: I wish I knew more, but our last conversation with him, I think a few weeks ago, is that (a) he has been suspended, and (b) as the lawyers said, there have been death threats against him. It's a shocking story, and it's an emblematic story. When people in this film, both priests and rabbis, raised the question about the shadow side of religion, they ask what is this dark side? What is it about this lust for the absolute, this need to be right, this need to be certain, that leads people to kill in the name of God. This story was so richly contemporary and emblematic that we had to include it.
Alameda, Calif.:
In seminary we talk about the God of the Gaps. That is -- God keeps losing parts of God's job description. Instead of the 10 Commandments we have the constitution. Instead of "acts of God" we have the laws of nature to explain everything from hurricanes to tsunamis. Medicine, science, etc., have taken over major parts of God's job description. My question is this: what is there left for a God to do? If God couldn't or wouldn't stop Auschwitz, Hiroshima or Sept. 11, then shouldn't God lose God's job altogether?
Helen Whitney: For a lot of people it's buried down there, and why not? I think that as we get older, for many of us, that subjective image of God, that God that micromanages things and hands out justice, isn't there. the need is there, but that description is not what fits what our experience is, which isn't to say that another kind of God -- and it's different for each person -- who can provide a sense of well being, a sense of joy and wonder about beauty, who can provide a sense of connectedness to others, can't be there as well. Clearly in the film there were people who had those expectations, and God bless them. They have an experience of God that I don't have, and that's fine.
New York, N.Y.:
Two questions:
1. I wonder why it took Sept. 11 for many people to wonder how God could let this happen, when there have been many crimes against humanity on much greater scales (Nazi Germany, Cambodia, etc.) Is it just American ethnocentrism?
2. Regarding the existence of evil: Some parents beat their children. Some soldiers impale children on bayonets. Is only the latter person "evil?" Where do you draw the defining line?
Helen Whitney: There wasn't a person in this film that wasn't aware of the Holocaust and Rwanda and similar events of greater magnitude and greater cruelty on a greater scale. The subject at hand was Sept. 11. That was my focus, and in some interviews, people in fact did mention the Holocaust and other atrocities and did talk about man's enduring capactity for evil against other men. That was mentioned, but it wasn't the subject of the film. If I'd had more time, I would have included all of those comments. But no one was so naive to think that there weren't these other events. But this was something that happened to them, and that's what they wanted to talk about.
Are there degrees of evil? Are there hierarchies of evil? Does doing evil with sincerity or the name of God on your lips or with some uptopian vision, does that mitigate evil? These are questions that have perplexed people throughout the centuries. Certainly my film did not answer any of these. It validated the questioning.
Plymouth, Minn.:
Thank you for your beatiful and sorrowful porgram. Your investigation hit the nail on the head. The questions you ask and explore break through the shield of religion. My personal belief is that God has certain attributes, like good and love, and that God eminates these attributes (like a beacon), and we can pay attention or not. We also have incredible ability to twist and manipulate all aspects of God.
Helen Whitney: That's a very interesting and eloquent description of your experience of God. I like that word "beacon."
Ft. Myers, Fla.:
When will "Faith and Doubt at Ground Zero" be rebroadcast so I can have my friends and family watch it? It seems everyone missed. Thank you. washingtonpost.com:
On the Frontline Web site, you can click "schedule," type in your ZIP code and find out when the program will be rebroadcast on your local station.
Helen Whitney:
Arlington, Va.:
All of the people of faith that you intereviewed seemed to understand inherently that good and evil coexist both in the world and within us as a result of religion -- the monsignor talking about how he knew that the attacks were motivated by religion was really profound. Do you think that there is any motivation besides religion that could inspire people to such violence?
Helen Whitney: I think that religion can't be held accountable for all -- or even most -- of the evil acts. Religion to some extent is the articulation of our unconscious, and our unconscious is a pretty scary place. Rolling around it are all these impulses for security and certainty and power and beauty and connectedness and joy. Some of it gets articulated into belief, and bad things happen. Throughout history with all the evidence that we have of what man is capable of doing, it's too simple to say that the religious impulse is the cause of murder and mayhem and wars. There are other passions deep within the human psyche.
Duson, La.:
I wrote to ask a simple question concerning the music played at the very end of the show. "Ocean Birds" is it? I watched, and was moved by, the beautifully filmed show and decided I should ask.
However, I read your article on the Internet (along with a few hundred others) and, now, I find myself asking you this: Do you, Ms Whitney, believe as does Kirk Varnedoe that we, as Americans, have exaggerated our losses? Overreacted, I believe it said? Blown this out of proportion? I think not!
Your reality, as a non-Christian, is typical. This has only strenghened my resolve in the name of Jesus.
Helen Whitney: It's a Schubert string quintent in C major, which is a truly transcendant piece of music. Many musicians have requested that this piece be played at their funerals.
I think Kirk Varnedoe raised an important question, a fair question. I personally don't feel that we exaggerated the event. As I said earlier, most people with whom I spoke have a sense of history are very aware that events of bigger magnitude have happened throughout history. But this happened to us, and it's what we're focusing on now.
Alexandria, Va.:
Did you encounter any Muslims who questioned the concept of jihad after the Sept. 11 attacks?
Helen Whitney: I think many of the Muslims I spoke to felt that the concept of jihad had been wrongly misappropriated, misunderstood by these terrorists and redefined in a very troubling way. In one of the interviews on the Web site, Makiya talks about how this concept of jihad has changed from either self-refinement, a battle within oneself to purify oneself or a battle to purify the community, has turned into something else.
Oneonta, N.Y.:
As I watched this very emotional program, I was reminded of Joseph Campbell saying that we need to find a new myth to live by. Could it be that these questions of doubt about God and life be a way for us to embrace the mystery, for which we have no answers? Is it possible that we have to learn with this ambiguity?
Helen Whitney: I think absolutely. Bravo. I think Kirk Varnedoe expressed it beautifully when he said the best of art is his religion -- it celebrates beauty, celebrates ambiguity. The Catholic priest said it as well that we have to learn to live with the mystery.
Washington, D.C.:
One of the most interesting aspects of your program, in my mind, was showing the dichotomy that lives within people -- people who claim to be persons of faith, yet impose their judgments and will on others. Or people who once believed in one thing but have become another -- the rabbi who lived in the territories as a young man is a great example. What an incredibly interesting guy. How did you find him?
Helen Whitney: I actually put the word out among a lot of my friends who are questioning Jews -- did they know of a rabbi who would ask the tough questions about the shadow side of religion. They said there's this man who's experienced what you're talking about and might be interested in talking about it with you. I came upon him through word of mouth.
New York, N.Y.:
Many people have been "moved" by Sept. 11. With your experience in speaking to so many producing this film, do you think it will stick?
Thank you.
Helen Whitney: That's the $64,000 question. It's a question for me. I was surprised by the depth and the breadth and the intensity of the questioning about these spiritual and existential issues -- is this all there is? How do you live a good life? Who is this God that I worship? All of these questions were coming up. At the end of it, will we find in our injury reasons for hopefulness? Are these changes ephemoral or enduring, and if there has been a change in our lives, what is the content of that transformation? If you're using the indicia of going to church or synygogue, those numbers have fallen right back. If you're using the indicia of the quality of our lives, the graciousness of our lives, I think that's stayed. In the end, I was taking the spiritual pulse of New York intiuitively.
Kingston, Ontario, Canada:
It would have been interesting to hear what some evangelical/charismatic ministers would have had to say about Sept. 11.
Helen Whitney: There was a charismatic -- Stanley Praimnath escaped, and he believed it was part of God's plan. He is a charismatic Christian. I went to his church and it is a very strict reading of the Bible. That particular strain of Christianity was represented.
Boston, Mass.:
How did you and your colleagues respond to a notion I saw conveyed many times over, which was this: "Thank God, I got out . . . or "I was blessed and my family was OK . . .'" So, were those who perished NOT equally blessed?
Helen Whitney: I think those are fair questions to ask, and if I was somebody who had lost somebody and heard somebody say their husband was saved because it was part of God's plan, I would have asked the same question. I understand the people who lost somebody who say that kind of talk is very difficult for them.
I think Rabbi Hirschfeld answered that question quite well.
SIlver Spring, Md.:
First, thank you for an inspiring film. I was very moved by the theologian's comaprison of evil with the undercurrent of the ocean. I have read comments on the PBS Web site that the interviews in the film are not inclusive of various aspects of the Protestant denominations. While I disagree with the statement, I am curious as to how many people were intereviewed that were not used in the final film.
Helen Whitney: I and my team of reporters pre-interviewed approximately 350 people. Most of those are written up. Then I chose about 30 people out of that 350.
Washington, D.C.:
Not a question, rather a comment. The whole program, and all the sensibilities shown, was deeply affecting. For me though, the Rabbi who set the victim's e-mails and phone messages into prayer cadences, was the most remarkable of all. It seemed as though those expressions of love were more pure than regular prayer. That the love was so utterly interwoven with terror makes it truly devastating. Thank you for the program.
Helen Whitney: Thank you for such a moving description of exactly how I felt about those prayers. That was a surprise -- he told me about them in the middle of an interview. He told me about the chanting of the e-mails and messages, and then did it on camera.
Fairfax, Calif.:
Hasn't nearly everyone engaged in war
and terrorism claimed to be acting in
accordance with God, Allah or Natural
Law?
Helen Whitney: Absolutely. That religious impulse, that need for certainty has come out in all the monotheistic religions -- people have killed in the name of God. This is the religious impulse that exists in all the religions.
nyc ny:
I did not see the complete program, but during the last half hour discovered the show - I really appreciate your project's committment in terms of looking deeper into the soul of humanity. As an artist (painter), broadcast art director and human being, I think about these themes regularly. Thank you. Are you working on any new projects? What might they include? all the best. Amanda Pelham
Helen Whitney: I'm working on a projected six-hour series for PBS called "The Future of Faith."
Boston, Mass.:
Is this possibly an unprecidented
opportunity to learn from survivors
of the Holocaust or Hiroshima (while some
are still living) how they interpret
these new atrocities though their lens of
previous events? Were any of the victims
of 9/11 family members or dear to survivors
of earlier wars?
Helen Whitney: In the film there was a Holocaust survivor talking. I pre-interviewed many Holocaust survivors who were profoundly shaken by this event. It set off ancient memories for them -- the smell in the air, the people jumping out of buildings. Holocaust survivors were among the most interesting interviews I had. They went through this questioning before, so they were good at it.
washingtonpost.com:
Did anything surprise you in the making of this film?
Helen Whitney: I wasn't surprised by believers whose faith was challenged, or even lost. I sort of expected that. I think I was quite taken back by the number of athiests and agnostics who said in some way this is harder for athiests, because our belief is in human nature, in the glue that connects all of us at some deep level, and in progress. And some of these people, who thought they were quite sophisticated, were stunned by this. And one athiest said to me, "At times like this I ache for faith. I ache for simple answers." For other athiests, this reconfirmed their sense that the heavens are empty, that if there is a God it's an indifferent God.
I talked to people for whom the fact of evil almost led them back to faith. Some deeds seem to cry out to heaven and hell. These reinvigorated their belief in an absolute good and an absolute evil. All those wonderful stories of goodness -- people helping each other, firemen trudging up -- I expected those. But these stories didn't just shore up flagging faith; they seemed to become core religious experiences. They almost enabled a new faith.
I was also surprised by the discussion of evil in secular corners of the city. I was also surprised by the willingness of people to look at that charged word "evil" again, and say maybe it's not so easily explainable by the science of psychology, sociology -- maybe it's more complex.
washingtonpost.com:
That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the
discussion.
Stay tuned to Live Online:
Iraq:
State Dept. Advisor at Noon ET
Terrorism
Question and Answers at Noon ET
Marc
Fisher: Potomac Confidential at Noon ET
Finance
Careers at Noon ET
Inside
the FBI: Internet Tipline at 1 p.m. ET
Entertainment
Guide: Got Plans? at 1 p.m. ET
Did you know that you can follow more than one Live Online discussion at
the same time? Just open another browser window and toggle back and
forth between discussions! And, if you miss one, catch up with the Live
Online transcripts.
Keep up with the latest in news, sports, politics and entertainment with
washingtonpost.com
e-mail newsletters.
NEW! Personalize your Post with mywashingtonpost.com.
Get customized news, traffic, weather and more.
| |
© Copyright 2002 The Washington Post Company
|