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President Bush calls Iran part of an "axis of evil." And for some, history is not easy to forget: the Iranian hostage crisis of 1979, or Iran's support for groups like Hezbollah during the 1980s, when hundreds were killed in attacks on U.S. embassies and military bases in the Middle East. Now, Iran helped in the war against the Taliban and seems willing to help bring down Saddam Hussein. But it's also developing nuclear weapons and is bent on Israel's destruction.

How will America handle Iran? Will U.S. actions help or hinder Iranian moderates in their struggle against Iran’s hard-line religious leaders? FRONTLINE's "Terror and Tehran," which aired Thursday, May 2, on PBS, looks today’s Iran and the game to be played. Correspondent Linden MacIntyre was online Friday, May 3, to talk about the film and how U.S. policy toward Iran could play out.

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

washingtonpost.com: Mr. MacIntyre, thank you for joining us today. In his first State of the Union speech, President Bush identified Iran as one of three countries in an "axis of evil." What has this done to U.S./Iran relations and Iranian sentiment about the U.S. in the short-term?

Linden MacIntyre: IN the short term, it has set back u.s. Iranian relations. It has revived a historic feeling in Iran that the United States is fundamentally opposed to the existence of an Islamic Republic. It has given opportunistic politicians in Iran ammunition for maintaining in the minds of ordinary Iranians that there is a real external threat in the American position.

And historically Iranians have always been very concious of external dangers and tend to unite in the face of external dangers.

San Diego, Calif.: Are there any signs that the current U.S. Administration is working covertly to overthrow the current regime in Iran, and help to bring pro-democracy supporters into power?

Linden MacIntyre: No. That's the short answer.

America seems to be cautiously supportive in a moral sense of the pro-reform movement led by the president, but are wary of his real chances of going anywhere with it. That they haven't committed any real encouragement. Basically, to sum up, America has taken a wait and see attitude towards the reform movement and seems to have decided it doesn't hold a lot of promise.

Chicago, Ill.: Why didn't you interview any members of Iranian democratic opposition groups such as Iran National Front or Iranian human rights groups such as MEHR?

Linden MacIntyre: They are mostly in North America and Europe. We interviewed people relevant to the particular point: the 'axis of evil' comment. We wanted to speak to people as close to real power in Iran as we could get.

The official government position is so hard-line we couldn't get any closer than the VP or Canadian ambassador -- who was the only one who would engage on issues of terrorism.

Another more broadly focused story would include these people. We did talk to as many from these groups as we could reach -- just didn't find it possible to include them all.

Cleveland Park, Washington, D.C.: I seem to recall reading that President Khatemi and Ayatollah Khamenei have a personal relationship of some kind; I've also read speculation that Khamenei has sometimes interceded on behalf of the reformers, albeit quietly. Did you get any sense that the Ayatollah himself might be inclined to accommodate the reformers in a way that the hardline conservatives under him are demonstrably opposed to?

Linden MacIntyre: On the contrary. The impression is that the ayatollah is perhaps even more rigid than his predecessor and that he is accomodating reformers only to the degree he feels it is necessary to prevent an even more aggressive reform process to begin. This is a process known in Iran under generic phrase "The Third Force." It has no obvious leadership, annunciated program -- but it is a real power that could easily be mobilized. The ayatollah is quite concious of that.

Miami, Fla.: What should the U.S. do about Iran if they are the "Axis of Evil?"

Linden MacIntyre: Axis of Evil is an abstraction. There is no formal relationship between the three countries. In fact, as far as Iran and Iraq are concerned there is a bloody history. The issue is whether or not they have in common a hostility to the U.S. that could be mobilized in the form of weapons of mass destruction, sponsorship of terrorism, etc.

So, inasmuch as the U.S. perceives a potential danger to U.S. interests because of the reality of Iran's engagement in weapons building, the U.S. should engage with them and talk to them and attempt to do business with them and establish a community of interest. For many decades, Iran was a stabilizing force working closely with the U.S. in region -- under the Shah, but there's no reason why a similar relationship couldn't happen again given good will on both sides and there is an absence of evil on both sides as we speak.

Baltimore, Md.:
What is your sense of the source of fundamentalism vs. moderation within the Iranian society. Is there a primary cause, or a mix of things?

Linden MacIntyre: That's a very good question.

The force of Islamism in Iran is more apparent than real. It is an official national condition, but as is often the case with national postures, the depth to which it extends in the population is questionable. More than 65 percent of Iranians are under the age of 25 and from what we were able to observe, they are not interested in fundamentalist religion. They have a very apparent interest in the modern world, America, Europe -- and a very apparent desire to be more involved with the modern world. And so, the perception of Iran as being a kind of Taliban dominated society is incorrect.

Chicago, Ill.: Are you planning on producing another "more broadly focused" show that would include the secular democratic opposition groups outside Iran ?

Linden MacIntyre: I'd have to refer that to WGBH, PBS. Right now we're assessing the value of what we've just done. Another factor would be whether we have become persona non grata in IRan. So, nothing further is planned at the moment.

Tehran, Iran: International terrorism, Islamic fanaticism, suicide bombings, civil and regional wars in the Middle East; mass executions, barbaric treatments of Iranian men, women and children, annihilation of the Iranian economy and the complete disappearance of any civil and social liberties have been the sole result of 23 years of Nazi-like regime of the Ayatollah in Iran.

If the West really believes in Human Rights and Democracy; and is serious to eradicate international and national terrorism; it is now the time to act and support the Iranian Student’s Pro-Democracy Movement to establish a secular & democratic system in a national referendum.

Since Sep. 11th many Americans and others around the globe have read, listened or watched interviews with Reza Pahlavi who has been the main opposition figure campaigning for democracy and secularism in Iran. His latest book, “Winds of Change” has particularly voiced our generation’s demands who is yearning for the life our parents enjoyed pre 1979.

Linden MacIntyre: That's a dangerous comment for Iran. In Iran, you'd be gone in 24 hours for making that comment -- for a couple reasons, but mostly becuase it raises the idea of resoring the Shah's dynasty, which is a non-starter for Iranians of all ages. The mistake in the Islamic republic is that it replaces a dictatorship with an autocratic religious society and one is not an improvement.

THe answer is not to go back to a monarchy, but to perfect the democratic component of the Iranian constitution -- most particularly by removing the incredible powers of the Supreme leaders.

Boston, Mass.: I would like to ask what has been your motive to produce such a program? And how diverse are the people you have consulted in view of this program? Have you been approached by Mr. Amir Ahmadi or any one close to any of organizations close to him?

Linden MacIntyre: I personally am not aware of an approach from him. We interviewed both off and on camera a very diverse cross-section, including former senior opposition leader in Iran, representatives of the students movement, people who are involved with the family of Resa Palavi and a lot of more moderate voices in and out of Iran.

The reason, of course, was that Iran is one of the most important countries in the Middle East with an enormous influence. IT's continued isolation is dangerous for everybody.

Virginia: Israel supported Iran during Iran's war against Iraq (supported by the U.S. and all of Europe) from 1980 to 1988. Seemed there are more Jewish people living in Iran than in Iraq, none. Do you think Iran and Iraq still hated each other? And what's is Iran's attitude to Israel (official and unofficial)?

Linden MacIntyre: Iran's attitude toward Israel. Iran remains one of the most anti-Israeli nations in the region. It has been criticized for being more Arab than the Arabs, which is the most counter-productive aspect of Iranian foreign policy.

In terms of Iraq, we can't forget that IRan and Iraq fought each other for eight years with the cost of an estimated million deaths. The memory of the brutality of that war is very fresh. Saddam Hussein is essentially paranoid about Iran because he has a Shiite minority he considers dangerous and worried they may at some point get encouragement from Iran.

So, one of the most perverse outcomes of "Axis of Evil" in the current crisis would be a rapproachment between Iran and Iraq. It would be extremely perverse for anyone who is concerned about peace in the Middle East.

Omaha, Neb.: Why was no mention made of the "dancing in the streets" after the soccer matches last fall as expresses by young people of their desire for democracy and a change of regimes?

Why was no analysis made of the Iranian regime's ability acquire, produce and use nuclear, biological and chemical weapons? What evidence do we have that they have acquired any of these capabilities from China or North Korea?

Linden MacIntyre: GOod questions.

First of all, there are a number of demonstrations that in a longer program we would have taken advantage of. There was the post-soccer disturbances which turned into an uproar. There was a spontaneous candelight vigil after Sept. 11 to show solidarity with the American people. The one we did mention was the 1999 student uprising which is the closest the country has come to insurgency in a long time.

As for weapons of mass destruction, it's not an immediately pressing issue. There's no evidence that IRan is involved in these biological or chemical weapons, but they do have a nuclear reactor that could produce nuclear weapons. They have been talking to N. Korea and Russia about acquiring nuclear weapons. They are signatories to the non-proliferation agreement. They're response when asked is: Everybody around here has them... Pakistan, Iraq might, and Israel has them. Given the volatility of the region, Iran takes the position of "why shouldn't we in our national interests work toward some balance of nuclear power." It's unlikely they have them now.

Harrisburg, Pa.: How can we reach out to the Iranian youth? Is there some sense among the young that Americans embrace all religions and that democracy has its merits? Or is anti-American sentiment very strong? Or, are they basically non-political and are misunderstanding Iranian youth?

Linden MacIntyre: That is a very good question.

We found universally that young people are curious about the U.S. They like north Americans. When we were in Iran we were a Canadian, a Scotsman and a Jewish American who made no effort to hide either condition. He was probably more interesting to the Iranians than any of us. They have an instinctive fondness for N. America that has to do with their sophistication who were very western for many decades. As Persians, they have an incredible culture. THat gives them a world view that is more advanced than the more tribal attitudes in other places there.

I'd suggest that anybody who wants to explore some sort of contact might get in touch with Sen. Biden, who has been preaching about the need for closer connections among young people and professional people -- who want better cultural relations.

Washington, D.C.: One of the most interesting aspects of the show, to my eye, was the revelation that the CIA likes to make the US look like a bully to strengthen anti-democratic rallies and support for opposition.

With Bush coming from a long line of CIA family, his "axis of evil" comments make more sense with this bit of information. It appears he was just supporting the anti-democratic forces in Iran. Returning a favor, so to speak. (Maybe to pay back Iran for holding the hostages just a while longer until Reagan was elected?)

Why would a US president do his best to keep a region rich with oil from becoming democratic? It makes no sense, unless you see that this president is an oil-backed, CIA-led beneficiary of an internal coup, and there is money to be made. The answer is greed.

Thank you for uncovering more about how this group likes to operate. Each piece fills in the puzzzle a bit more for us, and we see more clearly what we're up to.

Linden MacIntyre: Nice consiracy theories. There are all sorts of theories -- same as October Surprise. So far the only connection between the Bushes and the CIA is Bush Senior.

I believe the "axis of evil" comment came out of a very conservative element within the administration and it was designed more for domestic effect than any international issue and it is a widely held theory that it was mostly designed to generate domestic support for the missile defense initiative -- in as much as it raised the specter of what Reagan once described as an "Evil Empire." We have to remember Reagan used that in the context of the Star Wars (SDI) program.

Some saw this as a way to gain some sort of national concensus for a radical defense. I think it backfired in that it was taken more seriously as a statement of foreign policy and given a new resonance by what was happening in Israel.

Vancouver, Wash.: Please, for the sake of humanity and lots of innocent people around the world, help Iran and the Iranian people to get rid of the Islamic government. Nobody, I mean nobody, is benefitting from this regime, but just small number of hardliners in Iran who are making money by spreading terrors and corruptions.

Thank you for the beautiful program. Please help to restore one nation's integrity.
Regards,
An Iranian-american

Linden MacIntyre: Thank you.

Chicago, Ill.: Will the US put more pressure on its European allies to stop doing trade with the theocratic regime and thus prolonging their dictatorial rule?

Linden MacIntyre: No. I don't think so. And I don't think it would work. Europeans have a longstanding trading relationship with the Islamic republic.

Silver Spring, Md.: Nowadays we almost never hear anthing about the Reagan Administration's attempt to appease Iranian "moderates" by selling them guns (for personal hunting purposes, I guess), even when we loudly proclaim that one is either for or against terrorism and we should never appease terrorists. Do you feel that Iran-Contra has any effect on how the U.S. and Iran approach each other now, or was it just a passing diplomatic dance that is forgotten along with several other events?

Linden MacIntyre: It's a difficult question to answer. Iran Contra, notwithstanding its illegal aspects and perversion of the system, was an example of real politik at work and proof that where there is an intelligent perception of benefits to engagement, politicians can find a way. I suppose a lot of people would hope that America, on matters of principle, could find that kind of creativity again and find ways of talking to this regime and maybe even doing business with it.

I believe that if there is a benefit to be had in weakening the grip of the clerical elite, it's to be found in closer relations -- business, cultural exchanges.

Alexandria, Va.: What is the Iranian government's attitude toward Salman Rushdie? Does the Iranian government permit its citizens to attempt to kill Rushdie? Will it reward anyone who succeeds?

Linden MacIntyre: Officially the fatwah still exists, but most Iranians are embarassed by it.

Washington, D.C.: It seems you are deciding for the Iranian people as what form of government they must have, and that is a more democratice Islamic Republic? This is exactly what Khatami is saying and as we all know he is one the mullahs that is strugelling to keep the regime a flot.
I might not agree with my friend from Iran but absoulutly agree why not have a refrondum in Iran under the supervison of international observers and let every one participate from Mojahedin to Monarchist. Let see how of a chance the mullahs will have.

Linden MacIntyre: If I may be permitted a comment, great idea, but it isn't going to happen.

The constitution of IRan is explicit and nothing will seriously happen until the constitution changes.

Los Angeles, Calif.: You mentioned Senator Biden!
I would like to know what is his role in all of this? He has been collecting money from the supporters of the Iranian regime in US, the last one I remember was $30000 in CA from a group that has been lobbing for the Iran. How credible you think his push for re-approchment with Iran is? Given he comes from a state that are many large oil companies are incorporated and his fundraising!

Linden MacIntyre: I only know the Senator's public position, which is for closer engagement with the right people for the right reasons.

Calgary, Canada: What are the real reasons talking about Iran now? Is going something to happened in Iran?

Why all of sudden, you left all the important issues like Palestine and Arrafat and Israeil and start talking about Iran. When this happens, based on my experience, there are some plots going on against Iran, is true?

Linden MacIntyre: No, I think on the contrary. The administration in Washington has gone out of its way since the State of the Union to indicate it has no military plan regarding Iran. I don't believe that a focus on Iran is exclusive of the other problems of the region. Iran is a part of the region and has been involved quite openly in what IRanians call National Liberation Movements -- like Hizbollah and Hamas.

The reason for a careful look now is to find out its motives and how we can prevent IRan from becoming a part of the problem.

Reston, Va.: In retrospect, can a lot of the terrorism in today's world be traced to the beginning of militant Islam when the Shah fell? It seems if the U.S. (and the western world) had kept better tabs on him and his secret police the militants would not have risen to power. In the eyes of the U.S. then, the Shah was trying to take Iran into the 21st century, but was pounding the opposition. Just an observation using 20/20 hindsight.

Linden MacIntyre: The essence of the observation is that the best prospect for peace and security is the self-determination of ordinary folks. WHen people become desperate, they turn to desparate solutions. Religious extremism is a source of problems and a response to a sense of hopelessness.

Chicago, Ill.: Iranians have already realized that Khatami's "reformists" are not what they had hoped for. The Iranian people want a secular democracy, with separation of religion from government. Does the US government plan to support secular democratic groups such as Iranian National front?

Linden MacIntyre: Well, the signal that Condoleeza Rice sent out to Sen. Biden was that they'd like to. I guess the problem will be to figure out how to do this.

Washington, D.C.: I really enjoyed your show and I feel that you did a great job illustrating the dilemma between push from the inside and the isolation from the outside.

My question is this: Do you think that the government in Tehran is so directly involved in funding and leading the Hezbollah?

I realize there is a linkage but I wonder if it's not radical elements within the regime that are supporting it rather than the government officially giving its blessing.

This distinction would allow us to focus more on those specific elements rather than to alienate the entire government and country.

Linden MacIntyre: Yes, I think that the support for Hizbollah has come primarily from the conservative clerics in the government. And they've been unapologetic in support for what they describe as a movement for social justice. Hizbollah in Lebanon has evolved into a political party, runs daycare centers. It also has a militant offensive arm and it does support movements in other parts of the world.

It's a complicated answer to a complicated situation.

Harrisburg, Pa.: Is there, and should there be, any reason why Iran could eventually become an American ally?

Linden MacIntyre: Many reasons. Iran is a pro-Western (culturally). It shares the same interests as the U.S. in terms of stability, sensible management of petroleum resources and the population has an open warmth for Americans. So, notwithstanding the state hardline Islamic apparatus, the reality of the people of Iran is very different.

Las Vegas, Nev.: Why wasn't there more emphasis placed on the 1953 backing of the United States and Britain insisting the Shah to be reinstated? I'm embrassed the U.S., (you and others) can not address this or stand up and admit this. Shame on you.

The C.I.A. later admitted they spent $10K to pay mobs to storm the prime ministers' residence. Be honest. Don't assume the American public is so stupid. Research is key here, as a young American today, EDUCATION is the way, as the young Iranian girls said "they want to study/major in mathematics, here in the USA." More Americans should take this attitude and move forward not backwards.

Linden MacIntyre: Well, we did make reference to this. It probably deserved more. It is crucial. I agree with you that it was a defining moment in the relationship between Iran and the West and even the former director of the CIA whom we interviewed admitted that it was a dark moment and probably not something to be proud of.

So, yes, it was a very important moment. Very shameful on behalf of American and British interests. It has to be remembered in the context of the time -- the darkest part of the cold war. There was a perception that Iran might move into the Soviet camp and people in that age did a lot of hysterical things based on the "Soviet Menace."

Columbia, Maryland: The constitution will ONLY change if there is a referendum. The Mullah's will not voluntarily change it! It seems you have not really understood anything about how the Iranian activist movement works.

Linden MacIntyre: WE do understand that the system begins and ends with this unique constitution. It's all well and good, like Bush says, the problem with the world today is good vs. evil. The solution to the Iranian problem will either be a referendum or an uprising. How do these things happen? The constitution filters everything through Islamic principles and the people who are best equipped are the conservative Islamic clerics.

I agree with you, except that we completely understand the system.

Linden MacIntyre: I appreciate the chance to talk to your readers and its rare when a journalist has a chance to engage with the feedback and I am profoundly impressed and delighted with the quality of the questions.

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