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"Inside the Terror Network"
With Ben Loeterman
Producer, "Frontline"
Friday, Jan. 18; 11 a.m. EST
Look around your neighborhood. Could you tell who might be a terrorist?
The hijackers of Sept. 11 led such outwardly ordinary lives that they moved through Europe and America virtually
unnoticed. They plotted in broad daylight, weaving a web of terror from the simple routines of modern life. American flight schools taught them to fly, local banks helped them move money, libraries provided computers, and the Department of Motor Vehicles supplied essential IDs. Everywhere they went they blended in -- unnoticed and unsuspected.
FRONTLINE's "Inside the Terror Network," airing on PBS Thursday, Jan. 17, at 9 p.m. EST, traces the hijackers’ movements across four continents, following clues they left behind to unearth the stories of the individuals inside Osama bin Laden’s terror network.
Award-winning documentary filmmaker Ben Loeterman was online to talk about the case and what he learned on Friday, Jan. 18.
The transcript follows.
Loeterman has worked as a journalist and filmmaker since 1977, and was an investigative reporter on the very first FRONTLINE program, "An Unauthorized History of the NFL," about gambling and the National Football League. He has since made films about subjects including the U.S. Navy and NATO, foreign policy, and domestic issues such as AIDS, eye witness testimony, and elder care. He produced "Real Justice" in 2000, a two-part series about the Boston criminal court system, and won an Emmy Award for 1999's "The Triumph of Evil," which also won Amnesty International's 1999 Media Spotlight Award for Television. He also won an Emmy for his 1997 film, "Angel on Death Row." Loeterman graduated from Boston University and now resides in Newton, Mass., with his wife and two children.
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washingtonpost.com:
Welcome, Ben, and thanks for joining us. Your program talked about American complacency as being one of the things that failed us with regard to foreign policy and understanding terrorism. But it also highlighted the careful movements of these men -- the new passports so their trips wouldn't be detected by the U.S., the small wire transfers of money so as not to arouse suspicion, the outwardly quiet lives they led. Is this really an intelligence failure? Was there really any way to detect the fact that something was going on?
Ben Loeterman: I think it's both. It was an intelligence failure in the sense that these people were human, and they did make mistakes, and they did trip up. But when they did, it was our complacency that didn't follow up on those mistakes or bring to the attention of authorities the fact that they might be suspicious.
Atlanta, Ga.:
How can so much information be available, in so many ways, and our intelligence network, not have the ability to avoid such a disaster?
Have we grown so large, and so complacent that we don't realize that there is always someone thinking they are a David for every Goliath?
Ben Loeterman: I think one thing that has happened is that we've grown so compartmentalized that we were not very attuned to the kind of a threat that we would face. The CIA, which handles foreign intelligence, and the FBI, which handles domestic intelligence, were not talking to each other before Sept. 11. And that now is likely to change in a fundamental way. This is a new kind of threat, and we're going to have to find new ways to approach it and deal with it.
Schaumburg, Ill.:
There was a female witness who had seen Mohamed Atta acting strangely at an airport gate. She had said if she saw the man board the plane she was going to notify the captain. What exactly was he doing that made her think he was acting strangely? She never really said in the TV show. Also, what city was this?
Ben Loeterman: She was in Boston, and she saw him peering out the gate, looking into the cockpit, making what seemed to her feverish notes on notecards. Now, she had seen him when she was getting out of her car at curbside. He peered into her car and asked her a question that struck her as strange. And then she saw him again at the ticket counter, and then it was this activity at the gate that made her most suspicious.
Carroll, Iowa:
I was wondering how much, if any, of the information used to make this show was classified? And if so when did it become de-classified or how was it obtained?
Ben Loeterman: It was very interesting to us that most of the information we obtained was foreign intelligence sources that were releasing to us information given to them by American intelligence. So the information started here, but it's held very tightly in America. But if one goes to the intelligence services in Europe or the Middle East, one has a better chance as a journalist to see what America is thinking and does.
Washington, D.C.:
With Sept. 11, a superpower having been attacked, and then the counter-attack in Afghanistan, I am now sensing that many of us in the States finally cannot help but to put the U.S. in the context of empire, clear world leader, along with empires that have come before. There are now things that both the left and right have to reckon with. Isn’t it now plausible to think that while the attacks on the Twin Towers were heinous, criminal and in every way indefensible, that the Pentagon could be seen as a viable military target? Haven’t we throughout the '90s been targeting other countries’ ministries of defense, among other official buildings? And now that we are officially at war (well, not officially) against terrorism and war generally connotes more than one party, shouldn’t we expect reprisals?
Doesn’t it behoove us to take off the rose-colored glasses and recognize that when we attack someone we should expect a counterattack, period?
Ben Loeterman: Absolutely.
It's inherent as we struggle to define a new kind of war and a new kind of conflict that we've never seen before and never fought before what the rules of engagement will be. And I think you raise a very valid and interesting question about how we go about doing that.
Zurich, Switzerland:
In the course of tracking the movements and actions of the hijackers was there any one specific event or episode which you believe should have stood out and been noticed by intelligence or law enforcement agencies?
Also, where did you find the most alarming aspect of institutional dysfunction in permitting these terrorists to operate so easily and so openly?
Ben Loeterman: There were many. The fact that German intelligence had the apartment of the Hamburg cell under surveillance but failed to track and notify U.S. intelligence of the movements of some inhabitants of that apartment, was a gross failure. In America, perhaps the most egregious error was INS -- the Immigration and Naturalization Service -- allowing them to enter the country with improper visas and then overstaying them. The INS is likely to be a major focus of the Senate Intelligence Committees upcoming hearings, chaired by Sen. [Bob] Graham (R-Fla.).
Ben Loeterman: More: The fact that the hijackers were so easily able to obtain valid driver's licenses with falsified documents has already prompted motor vehicle registries in all 50 states to change their procedures. The fact is, we have been very lax in this country, and that's likely to change now.
Boston, Mass.:
Our diverse and open society, in which a multi-ethnic population enjoys a high level of personal freedom, affords terrorists much in their favor. With enough determination, patience and a moderate intelligent any fanatic can successfully carry out a terrible act of violence and destruction -- especially if that person is suicidal. Can our society possibly deal with stopping such people without moving significantly backward with regards to personal rights and freedoms?
Ben Loeterman: That's the key question. How do we balance a high degree of personal freedom and convenience with a new awareness and concern for acts of terrorism that that could allow? Since Sept. 11, it seems that most Americans are willing to accept a higher degree of inconvenience, and even a degree of profiling, than we would have before Sept. 11.
Dallas, Tex.:
I thought I saw on this Web site that I could retrieve a copy of Mohammed Atta's will that was found in the car he left at the airport, but now I do't see a mention of that. I would like to get a copy. washingtonpost.com:
You'll find it on the Frontline Web site
Ben Loeterman: It's on the site.
Tampa, Fla.:
Why did Jarrah's father not see any change in his son when the land lady in Germany did?
Ben Loeterman: Jarrah didn't return to Lebanon during the time that his landlady in Germany was talking about the changes she saw in him.
North Augusta, S.C.:
Just a comment.
I watched the program last night and want to thank you for prompting me to feel something about all of this that I haven't felt before: sympathy for the families of these terrorists. The interviews with the family members and teachers of these lost souls opened my heart and mind and is causing me to keep asking questions of myself. Excellent work, Mr. Loeterman.
Ben Loeterman: Part of reporting the story made us come to realize that the hijackers were humans. Their act may have been evil, but they left behind family and teachers and friends who had warm, positive memories of them, and either remained stunned in their disbelief or emotionally overwrought by their sense of betrayal.
Newton, Mass.:
What difficulties did you face with presenting a strong documentary, but not too powerful as to disturb people, or create anger?
-- Dan Loeterman (yes, I'm Ben's son)
Ben Loeterman: Our obligation was to report the story as best we could. Whether it disturbs people or angers people is not our first concern. And it may do both those things. I want them to know it's OK to do that.
Appleton, Wis.:
That these were men and not monsters is not the big revelation of this story. What is, is just how much they resemble to varying degrees American terrorists Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. Look into those cold, unflinching eyes again. To conclude, good breeding or otherwise, these latest bunch of young thugs were motivated first and foremost, by fanatic religiousity or extreme alienation seems to miss what was almost certainly, a central drive. There might've been some high mindness, but put plainly, most of these guys just got off on violence. Take another look at those training camp pictures from bin Laden's recruiting tapes you showed. This wasn't boot camp these young men were drawn to; for them, it was fantasy camp, with an arsenal that would make even the Columbine shooters salivate. That the Trade Center bombers were more evolved in their planning and tactics, aimed for even more destruction, with perhaps as it turned out for them, less personal self-gratification than their teenage counterparts, didn't matter so much; the bottom line was still the same. In both cases, they imagined, then got to act out their violent, twisted fantasies, with terrifying and very real results.
Ben Loeterman: What impressed us most was the sense of devotion and commitment these people showed to the cause -- far more than their intrigue with violence. The fact that they could stay in this country without overt contact, even with a mosque, for the amount of time they did, seems to show an incredible discipline and sense of ideological commitment on their part.
washingtonpost.com:
The Washington Post reports today that the Saudis are becoming more uncomfortable with U.S. presence there and may ask the U.S. to pull its troops out. -Story: Saudis May Seek U.S. Exit (Post, Jan. 18, 2002)] Since the American presence in the region is so frequently cited as a reason for resentment toward the U.S., do you think it would have any effect on how the U.S. is perceived in the Middle East -- now or in future generations?
Ben Loeterman: I think it will have an effect, because I think we're sometimes naive in not understanding how offensive our actions in the region are seen by people there, and how arrogant it strikes other people.
Mt. Lebanon, Pa.:
Are German intelligence and law enforcement authorities now coming up to speed on closely monitoring and arresting the muslim terrorists that have operated freely out of their country or are they now still asleep at the switch? Great program last night. Thanks much.
Ben Loeterman: Sept. 11 was a giant wake-up call for intelligence services, both in Europe and America. We interviewed in the program the German intelligence expert or specialist on Islamic terrorism. He's now playing a much more central role in their thinking than he did before Sept. 11.
New York, N.Y.:
Mr. Atta's father seemed very against the U.S. What was it like to sit before him and speak about Sept. 11? Did he seem sorry or shameful?
Ben Loeterman: Atta's father struck us in his thinking and his language as a strange mix of Egyptian intelligentsia -- he is, after all, a lawyer in Cairo -- and fundamentalist hatred of America and the West.
Chicago, Ill.:
I don't understand the reluctance of the U.S. Immigration department to refuse entry of a person with an expired visa. This would not be acceptable in most countries. Do you know if there is any change in the policy of the U.S. Department of Immigration on allowing entry to people with expired visas?
Ben Loeterman: It struck us in our reporting that the prevailing practice in immigration is to accommodate people, to welcome immigrants, and to sometimes overlook tough detaails for the sake of convenience. The INS is now the focus of scrutiny for its practice, and is likely to change.
Bronx, N.Y.:
The problem we had with bin Laden and with al Qaeda is that we as a nation didn't know about their intentions until Sept. 11, when it was too late. Is this American ignorance the CIA's fault, or the FBI's fault, or the FAA's fault? I don't think so: many stories recently in the Washington Post, the New York Times, and other news outlets have highlighted that al Qaeda was definitely on our security agencies' radar.
So was it a lack of public interest in terrorism and counter-terrorism? Lack of public interest was definitely a problem, but this lack of interest was not so much a problem as a symptom of a vacuum of political will or of political leadership on counter-terrorism.
We didn't know about al Qaeda's war because nobody told us about it. Some did know about it, and even wrote lengthy reports about it (such as the now-famous National Commission on Terrorism report with the World Trade Center in crosshairs on the cover). Those reports went to the president of the United States and his national security advisers. News stories about bin Laden and various foiled terrorist plot did sporadically get reported by the media. But the president never got around to telling us that we were actually in a war with al Qaeda.
Question: The Frontline report on the hijackers makes it clear that al Qaeda has been at war with us for several years. If we did not respond in kind, is that primarily due to a lack of American understanding or a surfeit of complacency? Or is it really due to a startling lack of presidential leadership?
Thank you for considering my comments and question.
Ben Loeterman: In fairness, American authorities were aware of the threat from al Qaeda, but were focused on that threat being perpetrated from abroad. Our report showed that if there was complacency, it was through the lack of imagination that al Qaeda was interested in and capable of exporting that threat directly to our shores. Our reporting also showed that the lack of coordination between agencies, which knew part of the intelligence puzzle, were not talking to each other as much as they might have.
Washington, D.C.:
I watched the broadcast, and the conversation with the flight school owner really struck me. He said, quite rightly, that they're under no legal obligation to do background checks on students. I felt indignant for a moment, then realized that the whole point of our country is not to convict or profile people before they've done something. The very nature of this nation leaves us vulnerable to attack. Do you think there's really a way to close the holes without losing that which makes us what we are?
Ben Loeterman: I think there are ways for us to be more aware of certain instances where it would be worth asking a few questions in light of what we now know. People at the Pan Am flight school in Eagen, Minn., did just that. They saw an untrained, inexperienced pilot ask for flight lessons in a simulator of a Boeing 747. They alerted authorities because that struck them as odd. As a result, Zacharias Moussaoui was arrested in August -- well before Sept. 11. If the flight school in Florida and others were willing to do that without traipsing on the rights of others, one could argue the outcome might have been different.
Arlington, Va.:
Wonderful work. But I was somewhat dubious of the several participants in your video who noted Atta's eerie presence. I wonder if their "observations" were prompted by having seen his face plastered in the media after the events. Did you get reliable information that his steely eyes were a matter of record before Sept. 11?
Ben Loeterman: That was a real tough one. People's perceptions do change and crystallize after the fact. We spoke to many more people than ended up in the program, obviously, and used the people who we felt had expressed concern before Sept. 11.
Hartland, Wis.:
I have been watching the news carefully regarding Sept. 11. I find it amazing how the identity of Mohammed Atta is changed to a new picture every time I turn on the TV. The picture on the PBS home page has been used to describe men with many different names by many media sources. It is so inconsistant to a frequent viewer. The question it raises with me is: Do we really know so little about the terrorists' identities that we keep confusing them?
Thanks, Ron
Ben Loeterman: I think in fact in the end we'll be able to know precious little about many of the hijackers. It's part of what makes investigating the crime and reporting it so frustrating for so many.
Los Angeles, Calif.:
Have any members of any of the agencies which failed to prevent the attacks been disciplined, fired, resigned, or eased out of their positions?
Ben Loeterman: Certainly no one at the top levels, which has raised eyebrows in Washington. After Pearl Harbor, that's exactly what happened. And the question remains for many whether it's a fair analogy to apply the same rules of responsibility and accountability to those in the CIA and the FBI after Sept. 11.
Falls Church, Va.:
Let's say that our Intelligence Services had successfully arrested the 19 hijackers before Sept. 11 by means of less than constitutional law enforcement. That is, it was clear they were about to do something horrendous but there wasn't enough evidence for a conviction. Would you then have made a documentary about the seemingly unjust detention of these men?
Ben Loeterman: In fact, Frontline did make a documentary about someone infiltrating the country as part of the the millennial bombing plot (it was called "Trail of a Terrorist," and producer Terence McKenna talked about it online in October).
St. Louis, Mo.:
Ben:
What I have been wondering ever since this terrible event happened is: How did these hijacker pilots navigate to their respective targets after taking over the cockpits? Were they proficient at flying via the plane's instruments or did they simply use landmarks on the ground to guide them?
Thank you for an excellent documentary last night. I was riveted to my seat for the entire hour.
Ben Loeterman: One of the sequences we were very sorry we had to cut for sake of time was about how they navigated. In fact, they had purchased hand-held GPS devices, which allowed them to pre-program coordinates and fly the planes using auto pilot. Whether they used those consumer GPS units to fly once they were in the cockpit or simply to obtain the coordinates and punch them into the plane's much more sophisticated GPS, we don't know. But we think authorities do.
Madison, Wis.:
Mohammed Atta as well as other members of al Qaeda are Eygptian. Mubarak is arresting moderate political opponents as well as fundamentalists. This enrages many of his citizens as well as his going along with the West's policy on Israel, more or less. Egypt has been listed as one of the most oppressive countries in the world. Don't you think the West should try harder to get Mubarak to be more democratic?
Ben Loeterman: It's obvious that Mubarak's policies and oppression in Egypt helps to foment hatred of the West, just as it does in Saudi Arabia.
Kingston, Ontario, Canada:
Do you feel that Canadian Authorities are apt enough to deal with the terrorist threat, or is Canada viewed as a safe haven and "staging ground", by terrorists?
Ben Loeterman: Canada is viewed as a safe haven, but intelligence there too is making a great effort now to be much more vigilant and change.
San Francisco, Calif.:
Do you truly believe that our CIA, INS, FBI are going to make the effective changes that stop terrorists from entering and exiting the country so easily? After Sept. 11, we began intense and superficial "screening" at the airports, but I use SFO several times a week and I have already noticed a relaxation of security since the new year. What do you think is on the horizon for real changes that monitor terrorist activities here at home?
Ben Loeterman: I think one of the hardest things to do is to change our nature as Americans. We tend to be an open and forgiving people, and the challenge will be to see how we maintain our character and at the same time see if we can maintain a level of vigilance.
washingtonpost.com:
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