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Pop Talk
With David Segal
Washington Post Music Critic
Wednesday, April 10, 2002; Noon EDT
David Segal hails from Rhode Island, where he once foisted himself backstage at an X concert and demanded autographs from all four bandmembers. They happily obliged. The first song he ever loved was a kiddie recording of "Honeycomb, Won't You Be My Baby" and he quickly graduated to Simon & Garfunkel, then Elvis Costello and then the Dead Kennedys, who performed one of the greatest concerts he's ever seen in London in 1982. He hasn't been the same since.
For a few years, he played guitar and sang in a deeply terrible cover band, the Bremers. The highlight of the group's show was a stalker version of "Leavin' on a Jet Plane," which was retitled "You're NOT Leavin' on a Jet Plane." He's been at The Post for going on eight years, first as a Book World editor, then a Business section reporter and finally as pop music critic. He enjoys the work and would like to point out that he is writing his bio, even though it's written in the third person, like someone else wrote it. Segal is doing that so he appears more important than he is, which is hilarious when you think about it!
The transcript follows.
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David Segal: People,
I've been on vacation, in Vietnam -- which I hightly recommend, by the way. So you've had to live without your cherished Pop Talk for a few weeks. This was probably VERY difficult for many of you and I'm hoping that you didn't fill the gaping holes in your lives with dangerous drugs, like crack cocaine, one of the only substances that delivers Pop Talk's level of excitement and adventure. Pop Talk delivers excitement! It's like riding fast in a Nissan Maxima -- without a seatbelt!
Suggested topics: Barry Manilow and Dave Matthews, two much loved singers who were in town recently.
Also, I've started a series called My Top Ten in which I ask artists to sit and listen to their favorite songs in history, and comment on the effect the music had on their own work and lives. Got any ideas about who I should My Top Ten next? I've got a few concepts, but I'd love a few more.
And now a shameless plug. Check out the chat by Atul Gawande coming at 3:30. He's just published a collection of his essays in the New Yorker, all of which concern his life as a surgeon in training. I'm partial to Atul because he's one of my closest friends on the planet but honest, his book is remarkable and was raved about in the NYT Book Review section Sunday. You can ask him about managed care or the weird blue pimple on your butt, andy everything in between. His book is called "Complications."
Ok, now some trivia. I saw E.T. over the weekend. In one scene, Eliot's older brother comes home and heads to the fridge, singing a terrific and (for such a mainstream movie) surprising song. Can you name it?
First to do so AND INCLUDE E MAIL which we will not post on this chat wins....I don't know. I'll find something cool when I get to work and comb my reserves of CDs.
Bring it, mofos.
washingtonpost.com:
"The Songs Barry Manilow Wishes He Had Written" by David Segal (Sunday, April 7, 2002) and "Matthews: Casually Sullen Fan-Pleaser" by David Segal (Saturday, April 6, 2002)
Arlington, Va.:
Saw Manilow, loved Manilow. You want to cringe, but he's so cheerful he wins you over. And he seems to get the joke. He kept cutting verses out of the songs (dude, you just can't skip the second verse of "Mandy"), but then again, if he sang them all in their entirety, we would've been there until midnight. Was he a nice guy?
David Segal: Yes, Manilow is a nice guy. I tried to convey that in the piece -- he's pretty focused, very bright and not nearly as goofy as he is on stage. There's a gravity about him that you don't really expect. He sincerely loves music, which isn't much of a surprise and his relationship to his own songs and his fame, circa 1975, is complicated and filled with ambivalence that I find really interesting.
I went again on Sunday night and I was amazed by the crowd. People all around me we were weeping. With joy. It was a scene.
McLean, Va.:
Dave -- aacckk! What's up with this new No Doubt song? It's horrible. What were they thinking? Thanks.
David Segal: Not sure which song you mean, but I really love two songs on their last album, "Rock Steady" and "Underneath it All." These are genuinely amazing pop songs. I can't get them out of my head and the hook to one of them is roughly the same as the beep on an airplane that tells you to fasten your seat belt, which means that I was hearing the tune in my noggin nearly every time I flew over these past few weeks.
Rockville:
Dave,
When you interview these musicians about Top 10s, will you ask them if they go around singing or humming the lyrics to their own songs or other songs that maybe they hear on the radio like most normal people do? Curious if someone like Springsteen sings Born to Run in the shower?
Also, can you explain this ABBA phenomenon? Hard enough to understand how it happened the first time.
David Segal: Oh, I love Abba, I must say. "Name of the Game" hooked me very long ago when a Brit pop band called Any Trouble covered it back when. Great tune. And "Dancing Queen"? Even U2, who covered it, recognized the genuis that one.
As for what stars sing in the shower, I'll ask. I bet Springsteen is REALLY sick of Born to Run. How could he be anything but?
Alexandria, Va.:
Is it true that the Stones kicked Mick Taylor out of their band 30 years ago because instead of being an elf or a troll like they were he looked human?
David Segal: I've always heard that Taylor quit. He's sort of famous for quitting the hottest band on earth. I can't remember his reasons for it, but if you've ever read about Jagger and Richards you know that each is vile in his peculiar way and I, for one, wouldn't want to work and tour with them for a lifetime either.
Vietnam you say?:
How is the pop music in Vietnam?
David Segal: I didn't hear a lot of pop in 'Nam, but the little I heard was terrible. Really sappy and discofied.
One thing they do have there that's kind of amazing is lots of pirated CDs. The industry's nightmare: a whole store filled with great CDs, each selling for 50 cents a pop, each of them burned and unlicensed. And someone in that country has great taste. The store I went to had White Stripes and all sorts of Pixies and tons of other great albums.
Boonies, Va.:
Dang, I miss Barry Manilow music. When I lived in Northern Virginia there was an easy listening station where I could get my fix of Manilow, Streisand, Diamond, etc. Does it still exist? I feel lucky to get three pop stations out here in the boonies, but none of them do much easy listening. They are nice enough to have special hours during the week where they play disco music (most are good, but some like "Ring My Bell" make me want to drive into a tree and end it all) or eighties music (the other day they played a coupla faves -- "I Always Feel Like Somebody's Watching Me" and "You Are an Obsession"). Anyway I'm rambling. Your mention of Manilow brought some wonderful songs to my head.
And I'm ready to take a chaaaaaance agaaaain.
David Segal: He's the pants.
Washington, D.C.:
Hey Dav, not interested in your BIO one ounce. However I am interested in the turn out in the Middle East, and the lives that have been affected.
You're being cynical.
David Segal: I wish I could make sense of this. But I can't.
Anyone?
Washington, D.C.:
I am sick of hearing what a "common man" Paul McCarthy is. The ticket prices for his concerts at MCI Center at $250 a ticket for just sitting in the main hall are sick. Why are these tickets so expensive, and it seems no one complains. Is he going to have live circus animals in the show to justify this cost?
David Segal: I didn't know the tix are so expensive. That's pretty amazing. I'm constantly amazed at what rich people charge. It can't be that Sir Paul needs the dough. I don't know, maybe it's a prestige thing, or just a greed thing, or maybe he wants to boast when he's done with his tour that it was the "top grossingest blah blah" in the history of whatever.
Or maybe he has lions and tigers.
Washington, D.C.:
Sappy and Discofied? Sounds like Top 40 in the U.S. Or is Britney cool because she works with the Neptunes?
David Segal: No, Britney is cool because she so...Britney.
Washington, D.C.:
Whenever I see Barry Manilow, I always think about the time he guest-starred on "Murphy Brown." They made a big deal about her loving Motown and hating his kind of music, which was why I thought his guest appearance (he sang to her infant son) showed Barry to have a real sense of humor.
David Segal: I didn't know about that. Sounds funny. Manilow absolutely has a sense of humor about himself. He also can't help himself -- I mean, don't expect any suavitude from the guy because it isn't in him.
And I tell you, whatever he's doing works. Having seen him twice in the past month or so, I know that his patter is pretty much set. But it works every time.
Alexandria, VA:
Love Manilow, love Ozzy, love Tori Amos, love Iron Maiden, love Bob Mould, love Tool, love Air Supply.
What's my diagnosis Doc?
David Segal: You have an acute case of Electicitis, which causes you to love a very diverse set of musicians and artists and is a very fine disease indeed.
Alexandria, Va.:
Well, which is worse -- the rich artist who charges $250 per ticket, or the dumb fan who actually pays it, ensuring that the circle of stupidity will continue?
David Segal: I suppose that staying home is the only form of protest and certainly if enough people did that, prices would come down. There was some talk last year, when the concert biz went soft, that things had gotten out of hand and that prices were on their way down. But this Sir Paul thing suggests that isn't true.
College Park, Md.:
I am tired of all the pseudo-rebellious music out there, particularly groups like Papa Roach and Limp Bizkit, blah blah blah.
I liked The White Stripes, for about a day before 99.1 overplayed their song into pop-music mash.
I was given an mp3 "bootleg" of a San Diego band called Hot Snakes: incredible stuff. Honest, rough, fun music. People should check them out. Have you heard of them?
By the way, how is the new Fugazi?
Dan
David Segal: Don't know Hot Snakes. I'll check them out.
I think the new Fugazi is fine, though I haven't listened to it much, I must say.
Washington, D.C.:
Sort of a grudgingly decent review of the Dave Matthews show there, Dave Segal. I was happy you liked it as much as you did, since I know you aren't a big fan. Here's the breakdown of the DMB crowd: half are young women like me, who find him inexplicably hot and mysterious. The other half are fratboys or potheads (or both) who enjoy the music as party background noise. Both fine reasons to listen, I say.
David Segal: I looked at that piece as a chance to land on the Planet Dave Matthews and look around and report back to Earth. It is really amazing to see the depth of love for the dude. He's adored like few artists are these days, and yet he seems like an unlikely target of love for this crowd. He's not a good timey guy, to say the least. He's pretty morose and his lyrics are actually crushing when you read them. It's strange to see thousands of young ladies and frat boys drinking and partying to what really isn't party music when you focus on it a bit.
He's also a pretty magnetic dude. Very intense.
Ticket prices:
Don't they jack up the price for really big celebs to avoid people bombarding the box office and ticket scalping, etc.?
David Segal: Sort of. I mean, if they charge too little for seats, the scalpers come in, buy up as much as they can and then resell the booty at the actual market price, which is to say, the high end of what the market will bear. That's what happened with 'N Sync a while back, when the seats sold for $65 and people were willing to pay $700. The difference in that price was exploited by all the middlemen out there. So at $250 it's probably the case that more fans will buy these seats directly from MCI or Ticketmaster, because the scalpers won't spot the opportunity for a quick profit, the way they would if the seats were half as much.
Still, it's pretty galling and it ensures that a lot of people won't get to see the dude. My fear is that shows will go the way of NBA games and everyone in the building will be on some kind of corporate expense account.
Washington, D.C.:
Dave,
Why no review of the Beta Band's Monday night performance at 9:30? I'll give you my review: it was AWESOME. They rock.
David Segal: Ok, well we're going to run your review instead.
Hey, why is no one even taking a crack at my trivia question? I thought it was pretty easy. No one seeing E.T.? It rules, that movie! Ok, it's sappy as hell, but is that so wrong? Are you people AMERICANS?
Leesburg, Va.:
Heading into the District in a few weeks to see De La Soul perform at Nation. Any safety issues I should be aware of? Have heard some horror stories from friends who were robbed after Buzz.
David Segal: Buy a parking spot, preferably near the club.
Has anyone else heard of problems with muggings and so forth at Nation? That's a story, if its happening a lot. How hard would it be for the club to make sure everyone can leave and get home safely?
Re: Vietnam:
Are you familiar with a Vietnamese medly that Henry Kaiser recorded about 10 years ago on "Hope you Like our New Direction"? He bookended two American mountain folk tunes around three Vietnamese traditionals in a way of proving that Eastern and Western blues were in fact the same thing. Great listening. Highly recommend you track that long out of print disc down.
David Segal: Never heard of it. I'll check it out.
Wanderer:
Saw George Clinton and P Funk last week. How can a band feed themselves with soo many people in the band?
I counted 26 individuals on stage at one single time, there were three tour busses for all them, and I didn't even see the behind the scenes people.
David Segal: That's a mighty fine question. I'd love to see what the business model is for Clinton and his ensemble. Maybe they tour non stop because they have to split the dough so many ways.
Pretty cool show, huh? I love it when Clinton walks out after the band has warmed up the crowd for a good 45 minutes and he moves as slow as anyone you've ever seen on stage or off. And people just scream like the Lord has landed.
Dave Matthews Rant:
Hey, Dave. Saw Dave Matthews last week and I must say that I was highly disappointed. What's up with artists playing to huge stadiums, then not playing some of their more well-known hits? No "Crash," no "Satellite," no "So Much to Say." For $50 a pop, I expected to recognize at least half of the songs on his set. Instead, we got a handful of songs from an album that wasn't even released! And his performance seemed so disjointed, as if he was picking the next song at random, at that very moment. It seemed like the only people that enjoyed the show were hard-core fans, which is great for them, but a disservice to other fans who have only come to recognize Dave's talents a little later in the game. Oh, and ending the show with only one encore and "Don't Drink the Water"? Whatever. I want my money back.
David Segal: I sort of liked "Don't Drink the Water." It's a chilling song and a weird choice for a closer, but it's pretty haunting. It is pretty odd that he didn't play his big hits. I was surprised by that, too.
VA:
Dave - welcome back. i must confess that since moving to virginia, i have become pretty tired of hearing what a genius dave matthews is. it just seems like pseudo-deep frat rock with semi-interesting arrangements sometimes. also, he apparently scolded a crowd in nashville for clapping too much during that acoustic tour he did a couple of years ago. stoner twerp. just my .02.
David Segal: DM seems to bug as many people as he thrills. You're not alone.
Conquering Fools:
So you were at the 9:30 Club for George Clinton last week?
How else would you have known about his band warming up for 45 minutes and then walking out in his mumu and the crowd going berzerk?
The Booty the But!
David Segal: I wasn't at the show. But his pattern is pretty set.
Orange, Va.:
Nice article about Barry. One of my guilty secrets used to be that I would crank his live album back in the late '70s to get psyched up for tennis matches. But now that he's finally hip, I can confess without shame. In a newer music vein, what's your take on Joe Strummer and the Mescaleros? I bought their 2001 release recently and have really enjoyed it. Heavy on the world music vibe but not as predictable as The Clash quickly became.
David Segal: I like Strummer's new band, the Mescaleros. I thought the last album was pretty cool. But I must say that when I saw him live, his old Clash stuff slayed a crowd that had, until that moment, been only mildly into it.
For those who don't want to pay $250 for Macca and $80 for Melissa Etheridge;:
Here's you ampitheater tour of the summer: Fake Fest.
I'm not the promoter (Clear Channel) who put this together, so I bring this up as either a joke or the sign of the apocolypse: a touring group of tribute bands (AC/DC knockoff, early Van Halen knockoff, U2 knockoff, etc.) doing shed shows for $15.
Will wonders never cease?
David Segal: What a concept. I love it. Some of those tribute bands do really well. There's an Aerosmith tribute band called, I think, Hot Rocks, and they were the "official tribute band" of Aerosmith, which is just a hilarious concept. But a real one. The band has been ordained in some way by the originals. Hot Rocks a while ago even threatened to sue some band in Canada that was fobbing itself off as the official Aerosmith tribute act. Can you believe that?
"We're the real fakes. Not you guys. You guys are fake fakes!"
Linthicum, Md.:
Why no review of the Prince concerts at the Warner? It was off the hook and to top it off -- Carlos Santana. After all these years, Prince still delievers. What did you think of his last CD "Rainbow Children"?
David Segal: Story is there is that A) I wasn't here and B) the Prince folks wanted to sell our reviewer a $250 seat.
We don't pay enough to warrent that kind of outlay.
Re: Dave Matthews rant:
Give the band a break, it was the first night of a tour. They weren't perfectly pollished yet.
But the lights show was on target. Real cool.
P.S. What's up with an $11 small pizza at MCI?
David Segal: Yeah, can we talk about the food at MCI?
Ok, MCI, gouge me for $4 for a hot dog, but at least give me an edible hot dog!
The dogs at 7/11 are way better and they cost a fraction of the sum. What's SO HARD ABOUT GETTING A GOOD HOT DOG? Are we out of them? I know the oil thing is getting tight, but quality hot dogs? We should be swimming in them.
And the $3.75 Coke pond that's the smallest soda they sell -- what's with that?
By all means, charge me an obscene amount, but GET SOME REAL FOOD in there, MCI.
You can do it!
Diagnose me, Dr. Dave!:
Help! I am strangely "intrigued" by System of a Down. Normally I wouldn't touch MTV fodder with a 10-foot pole ...but I have to admit I find the singer's voice quite interesting. How can I shake this horrible affliction?
David Segal: I don't know. Maybe if you listen to them enough, you'll be cured. I frankly find them pretty ridiculous. Their hit was one of the more annoying things on the radio for a while. They just seem like slightly pious windbags to me.
Somewhere, USA:
Whatever happened to the Mavericks? I so enjoyed Raoul.
David Segal: I adore Raoul, who is the smooth voiced lead singer of the band. Can you top "Crying Shame"? I think not. One of the greatest break up songs in history.
Raoul has tried his hand at a solo career which I think is not going all that well. And he's getting very large. I mean, physically large.
Alexandria, Va.:
"Oliver's Army," wasn't it? Or maybe "Allison."
David Segal: Oh, you are close, my friend in Alexandria. You are very close indeed.
It was indeed an Elvis song and Eliots older brother actually has a poster of Mr. Costello in his room. Different song, though.
Anyone?
Arlington, Va.:
Hey Dave, liked the New Pornographers CD alright, a bit too verse-chorus for me, but I loves me a free CD.
Here's a stab at the ET question:
"Anarchy in the UK" -- Sex Pistols?
David Segal: Naw.
Glad you liked the NP album. Got to love free.
Alexandria, Va.:
Speaking of George Clinton, why not a Top 10 featuring his picks? The man's history and love for music would make some fascinating picks!
David Segal: He would be tremendous. My editor suggested that. I'm bummed I didn't think of it a while ago, so there'd be a nice time peg with his show, but maybe that doesn't matter. Fine idea.
Tallahassee, Fla.:
Hi, David. I know people are innocent until proven guilty, but really: Isn't R. Kelly's career toast? The Aaliyah marriage and his recent legal settlements with young women -- plus the apparently icky video making the Internet rounds -- well, it ain't looking good. Of course, there's his awful music, but at least that wasn't illegal.
David Segal: It looks bad, indeed. If he gets indicted, he's in real trouble.
Then again, his partner on this new album, Jay Z, was accused of stabbing a guy and it seemed only to burnish his reputation. Sex with a minor is different, of course.
Worst Nightmare?:
I would actually argue the music Industry's worst nightmare is Courtney Love winning her lawsuit against Universal and making the current system of contracts unenforcable, thus forcing labels to change their business practices and consider developing artist rather than pop-hits (bureaucracies hate change after all). 50’ bootlegs in Vietnam pale in comparison.
David Segal: I have a sneaky feeling that if Courtney wins, it'll be good for Courtney and others like her who are already established in the music business, but pretty lousy for folks who are just starting out.
Why? Because the labels will have no incentive to invest in upstart and new talent if they don't have a revenue flow from their bankable artists -- the Courtneys of the world. Right now, it's performers like her that help underwrite the search for and promotion of new stars. What Courtney is saying, really, is stop spending my money on other musicians and give it to me. I understand why Courtney would say that, but trust me, if she gets her way, it's going to be a lot harder for struggling musicians to get a deal. The labels just won't be able to afford the risk.
Arlington, Va.:
"E.T." answer: "Accidents Will Happen."
David Segal: Yeah. We have a winner.
Eliots brother enters the scene mumbling the verse to "Accidents Will Happen," a stunner from "Armed Forces" if memory serves.
The kid had good taste. Weird that this detail totally had left my memory banks because at the time, Elvis was about all I listened to.
Modesto, Calif.:
I think you ought to do a top-10 with Todd Rundgren, who's not only an artist in his own right -- he produced everyone from the New York Dolls to the Band to XTC to Meat Loaf. Definitely a force in 70's rock.
David Segal: Fine idea.
Los Angeles, Calif.:
Looooong time Dave Matthews fan. Not a frat boy (in fact, a girl). Never tried pot; smoked a cigarette once. Hardly drink, and definitely not at a DMB show for fear of having to pee and miss a thing. Never liked the Grateful Dead. I'm 28, not 17, and I don't wear fake beads or Ambercombie and Fitch caps.
If you want to go to a DMB show to hear "hits," just listen to the radio, save 50 bucks. Radio plays his least interesting songs, and seldom plays DMB altogether (at least on the left coast). The music is intensly complicated and the lyrics range from euphoria to devastation. It isn't for everyone. Dave, himself, is also incredibly sensitive to sociopolitical plights around the world, being a proud foreigner himself, and speaks to crowds in ways most leaders/politicians/preachers never can. Especially in these times. "Don't Drink the Water" speaks many truths, and if the truth is bothersome, avoid this band. Nothing is sugar-coated.
And that's why this band is amazing.
David Segal: A fine testimonial. Thanks for it.
Burbank, Calif.:
Mick Taylor definitely quit the Stones, something he probably regrets today, but Taylor was a blues purist, and was increasingly dismayed with the shallow rock star lifestyle. People forget this, of course, but when he quit -- around the time of "Black and Blue" -- the Stones were going through the first of many downswings.
According to Taylor, he broke the news to Jagger at a party, and Jagger was extremely upset. Jagger said in an interview a few years back that Taylor was great for Jagger, 'cause his lead playing brought out the best in Jagger's vocals.
David Segal: Good stuff, Honkey Cat.
Did you buy any bootleg music in Vietnam?:
The reason I ask is because when I was in college in the '80s, I had a roommate whose father travelled a lot to Asia and brought back pop music tapes, most of which were bootleg. We discovered that the best thing about them were the jacket lyrics. Clearly, someone with a very basic understanding of English listened to the album and just wrote down what he thought he heard. As a result, for me it will always be the Police's "Manary in a Gold Mine!"
David Segal: I saw some weird t shirts in that vein. Odd translations that weren't coherent. And some funky signs too. When you leave your bag with the guards so that you can enter the Ho Chi Minh mausoleum (sp?) there's a sign on the other side that says "Take Luggage of Foreigner Free of Charge." Hilarious. Seems to say that anyone can come grab your bag, but really they're saying they'll store the thing while you gaze about Ho's embalmed body and not charge you a cent (or a dong, as the currency is called there) for the service.
Ok, people. I'm out of time. Thanks for playing our game. Sorry to the callers who I didn't get to answer today. Next time.
See all y'alls in two weeks.
Meantime,
Rock on with your bad selves.
David
Washington, D.C.:
Alright Quiz Master D. What song is Eddie Murphy's character singing when we first see him in "48 Hours?"
David Segal: "Roxanne."
Now I'm really out of here.
Nighty nigh.
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