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Non-Profit Careers
Hosted by Susan Sarfati
President and CEO
Greater Washington Society of Association Executives
Tuesday, Dec. 18, 2001; NOON ET
Susan Sarfati is president and CEO of the Greater Washington Society of Association Executives (GWSAE) and The Center for Association Leadership at the Marriott Learning Complex.
As a leader among the association professionals, she is a strong advocate of
innovative educational opportunities and lifelong learning within the
non-profit world. Susan was just named Nonprofit Times 2001 Executive of the
Year for her “forward-thinking and creative leadership.”
Before joining GWSAE, Susan spent 14 years at the American Society of
Association Executives (ASAE), where she expanded the society’s programs and
services, and developed many of ASAE’s signature programs.
The transcript follows below.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
WashingtonJobs.com:
Hi everyone and welcome to the WashingtonJobs.com special on non-profit careers. Susan Sarfati, president and CEO of GWSAE and the Center for Association Leadership is here with GWSAE director of career development, Marshall Brown. They will be answering questions on getting ahead in the non-profit sector. Let's get started!
Ashburn, Va.:
Susan,
What do you recommned as the best approach for someone who has had a wealth of marketing experience in the coporate world, but no experience in the association marketetplace?
Susan Sarfati: First, do your homework! Learn everything you can about associations. Research the kind of association you are interested in. Look at their vision/mission/what they are trying to accomplish. Check out the National Trade/Professional Association Directory. It is in the Center for Association Leadership founded by GWSAE and most libraries. Take several assessments to determine your skills. Marketing is a key need in all associations. You will be in a hot demand. We just hired someone with a marketing background from the corporate world and is she making a real positive difference here. Take advantage of the one on one career services we provide here. Visit us on line at gwsae.org. Best wishes.
Arlington, Va.:
Hi Susan,
I am moving to Baltimore to join a non-profit doing fundraising and event planning. (I currently work in account management at a corporation.) Do you reccomend any associations or organizations that I should join? Are there any organizations designed for networking and best-practice sharing among fundraising executives?
Susan Sarfati: You can join the Association of Fundraising Profesionals. Call then at 703-519-8440. Also check out The Professional Convention Management Association at 312-423-7262. Both organizations have web sites and will provide you with appropriate tools. Best wishes.
Sterling:
Susan, I do want to work in the non-profit world, but I don't want to sacrifice my salary as an IT professional as I have family obligations ($$$). Are there any innovative programs where IT professionals are paid market/competitive salaries by IT corporations (eg. Cisco, IBM) to do good work at non-profits? Is there a resource (website, association, etc.) for IT people that want to get into non-profit work?
Susan Sarfati: Check out an organization called Technology Works for Good. Their web site is www.technologyworks.org. It is committed to helping non profits in the Washington DC area understand, access and apply available technologies to deliver vital programs and services. Also check out the Washington Council of Agencies which is an umbrella organization for non profits in this region. You should expect a decent salary. Our survey in 2001 records salary ranges of $73,500 to $200,000 depending on experience, scope and size of organization.
Washington, D.C.:
At what point in your career did you learn of the non-profit career ladder? Did you learn by networking, friends, reading, counseling, etc.
It seems like I missed the boat. I came to DC in 1972 after college and landed in various government positions. I now regret this. It seems as though just needing a job moved me along, rather than planning and researching various options. I was young then and did not have the information that young people have today. I try to teach my young adult and college children everything I have learned the hard way. The most important thing I now know is to try to enter a job field that really draws on your talents and skills. This should bring satisfaction to your job.I became a government paper pusher and went no where in my career. I am now open for new options in midlife. I just want someone to give me a chance.
Peggy
Susan Sarfati: First, do no regret any work experience you already have. I am sure that you skills are transferable to associations as well as other industries/professions. I learned on the association profession purely by accident and started at the bottom of the ladder. Actually, I was a secretary with a fancy title. I then took as many courses as I could fit into my schedule. I listened a lot and worked many extra hours - I still believe all this is necessary. Check out gwsae.org and then go to career services center to see services we have available including one on one counseling for resume review. The main skills are willing to work really hard and having self confidence. Go for your passion - it works every time.
Boston, Massachusetts:
Hi Susan,
I am the Senior Accountant for the Boston Private Industry Council, a non-profit with an $8 million dollar budget. My fiance and I are looking to relocate to the Washington DC/Metro area in the upcoming summer or sooner if possible. What would be my best resource for finding a job doing what I'm doing or as an Accounting Manager, yet still staying in the non-profit arena? Please advise!
Daniel Watford
Susan Sarfati: Check our associationjobs.org, an on-line job resource tool where you can post your resume at no cost and view open positions. The job market is tighter right now than usual, but associations are still hungry for good, highly motivated and qualified folks. Order CEO Job Opportunities Update which is published every other week for professionals looking for positions over $50,000 in Associations and Foundations. Call 703-370-6700 to order. They will even send you a free sample copy.
Washington, D.C.:
In this time of economic uncertainty, are associations still hiring?
Susan Sarfati: Associations are most definitely hiring. In fact, on our staff of 40, we now have two openings. The job market is tighter now, many associations are looking for specific skills and positions. Be tenacious in your approach and be very clear about your skill set. Your resume should be specific and quantifiable. Be clear about how your background and experience will relate to the association. It is obvious, but surely check out their web site and know as much about the organization as possible. And for goodness sakes - don't have typos on anything you send in.
Springfield, Va.:
I have about 4 years Director level association experience and more than 20 years business experience. What are today's prospects in the association industry for advancing my association experience?
Susan Sarfati: There are many prospects for you. Very often, because associations are really small businesses, you need to move to another organization to advance. Within the association, find out what is on your boss' plate and fill that need. Be proactive, help solve problems rather than creating them (just joking), and bring viable ideas to your organization. For example, most associations are seeking ideas for non-dues sources of revenue and membership retention strategies. You have good experience. Now go market yourself. I recommend "The Brand You" by Tom Peters to all readers on this site. You can order it on Amazon.com!
Wakefield (Boston), Mass.:
Susan-
Congratulations on the Nonprofit Exec of the Year award! I actually will have to miss the live discussion as I FINALLY do have an interview (with a non-profit)...
BUT: Short of relocating back to DC, what opportunities do you know of in the Boston area? Is there a GBSAE? Best wishes for a happy, healthy & safe holiday season.
Michael Schwartzberg
mcsberg-rcn.com
Susan Sarfati: There is a New England Society of Association Executives. You can call them at 508-230-9949. However, associationjobs.org list jobs on a national level, so please check out the site. Also look at asaenet.org for their job site as well.
Baltimore, Md.:
If someone has a great idea for a new association, do you think its feasible to start their own membership association? What would be there first major steps, besides incorporating a 501 c corporation?
Susan Sarfati: Identify the mission, core goals, purposes, consider who would be your prospective market. So ample research including focus groups and surveys. Come to the Knowledge Center at The Center for Association Leadership founded by GWSAE. We have all kinds of material to help you. See a lawyer asap as well as one of the many CPA firms that service association professionals to help outline the steps. Get involved in a society of association executives like GWSAE to network, learn the ropes. In addition, look at associations that may already serve a similiar market especially to determine what gaps exist in meeting their member/market needs.
Alexandria, Va.:
I have a master's degree in international relations and business, and work experience in consulting and advisory services in the private and non-profit sectors. Do you have any insight into which industry associations are especially focused on international issues within their industries, and that might be particularly receptive to someone with my type of background? Thanks very much!
Susan Sarfati: Look at the National Trade and Professional Directory which lists all associations. In the back of the directory it is broken out by subject area. Most trade associations (associations with corporate members) are expanding into the global market. Marshall Brown, director of career development at GWSAE can provide specifics to you.
Alexandria, Va.:
What is the liklihood of getting relocation with a non-profit job? I come from the non-profit sector, but a private sector job relocated me out East... I'd like to get back out West and back into the non-profit... any suggestions?
Susan Sarfati: It is difficult in this job market to get an association to cover re-location costs. You may agree to split the costs. If your skills are incredibly unique, you would have a chance at this. Look at chapters within your own organization or range of contacts, who already know of your performance and the value you can provide. That will give you a leg up.
Foggy Bottom:
Susan, can you comment on the CAE? Does it elevate one candidate above another? Are more association employers seeking the CAE?
Susan Sarfati: 170 staffers just sat for the exam in December, the highest number ever. Search consultants continue to indicate that the CAE gives a candidate a leg up when all other things are equal. It provides the ability to become well rounded, to develop your network, and to demonstrate to prospective employers, your commitment to advancing in your chosen profession. GWSAE offers a prep couse for those living locally and is in partnership with the Michigan Society of Association Executives with an on-line course which you take 24/7! Contact the famous mbrown@gwsae.org. He's a terrific guy as well.
Las Vegas, NV:
Susan,
As a college professor teaching in a convention management program, I have a number of students who want to pursue careers in meeting planning. However, no associations come to campus recruiting. Therefore, most of our students end up starting their careers on the hotel side of the business. If they wanted to pursue the option of meeting planning directly, how would you suggest they approach the job search?
Susan Sarfati: Contact Professional Convention Management Association, Meeting Planners International, and International Association for Exposition Management. They all have national/local chapters and can be of great service for identifying meeting planning jobs in associations and corporations. Also, associationjobs.org posts positions for meeting planners. Call Marshall Brown or me to visit with your students on campus and provide guidance. I used to be a meeting planner by the way.
Dallas, Tex:
Susan,
I am a marketing professional interested in returning to the east coast and transitioning into a non-profit career. I hope to be able to combine my international marketing skills, love of art, and expertise in Asia. However, I too am worried about sacrificing salary in order to pursue my passion.
Is the salary range you quoted above only for IT professionals in non-profit or is this the general non-profit salary range? Where can I find out more information on salaries in non-profit? Thanks!
Susan Sarfati: The salary range was for IT professionals. GWSAE publishes an annual compensation and survey report which you can purchase on line at gwsae.org. It is also available in our Knowledge Center. Overall, an professional with five years experience would command a medium salary of $45,000. Typically, association professionals command a competitive salary and benefit package. However, if money is your main driver, you are best advised to look in the corporate market. If mission, passion and commitment to an industry/profession or social cause is your driver, look at associations. You surely can find a career that is very rewarding and will be able to make a real difference in our society. Best wishes to you.
Arlington, Texas:
What is the average tenure for a chief staff officer (CEO or Executive Director) in association management?
Susan Sarfati: That's a difficult question. It is not uncommon for "old timers" to be in their position for 20 years or more. However, the younger generation is typically changing jobs every 3-5 years. Some decision points are quality of the relationship with their board and members; association resources; stage of development of the association.
Arlington, Va.:
I recognize that there is a growing level of professionalism in the not-for-profit world, but what can an employee do when working for a highly unprofessional boss? Example, I have been asked by my boss to tell donors that there is a challenge grant in existence in order to encourage donations. There is no challenge grant, and there will not be a challenge grant. I've met entirely too many people like her in fund raising, and I'm getting tired of it.
Susan Sarfati: Here's my viewpoint. I have shared with my staff over and over that I believe each person works for themselves. In this case, you need to look in the mirror and be comfortable with your decisions and actions. Do not in any case, compromise who you are as a person, your value system and good judgment. You are the CEO and boss of your life!
Washington D.C.:
What kinds of skills do asssociations generally look for? Do I need to know the issues very well or can I learn about the issues on the job?
Susan Sarfati: Skills are vast and include first the ability to understand people. Association management is a people business. That is the foundation. Other skills include: financial management, customer service, project management, volunteer management, understanding of how to get from an idea to implementation. Associations are hiring more based on attitude, values, passion, prospects for being commited to excellence in delivering services to member. Information on issues can be taught and often is.
Washington, D.C.:
Susan,
I have about 7 years experience in marketing and education. I currently have a director's position in a (quasi) association. (We are now trying a 'for profit model' but I manage membership and marketing.) I really want to switch to another association as I do not like the industry my organization represents. Once I narrow down the associations I would like to work for, do you recommend 'cold calling' (i.e., sending out resumes and then following up with a call) to associations or is this a waste of time?
Susan Sarfati: I would definitely not recommend cold calling. This is an opportunity to interview for information so to speak by using your network. A recommendation from a respected colleague to another one, goes very far. Get your name out there by participating in societies of association executives, check out web sites of organizations you are interested in and then try to find out how you can solve a problem that exists in an association and come up with proposed solutions. That's what people want... help them look good and you will succeed.
Alexandria, Va.:
Thank you for sharing your time with us, Ms. Sarfati. Here is my question.
In the various NFP's I have worked in, and I have been at four, the one common factor is the lack of sense in the pricing structure of their services, from meeting registration costs to publication costs. What sources (training materials, seminars, etc) are available to share with managers about how our products and services should be priced?
Susan Sarfati: IEG based in Chicago provides conferences and materials on valuation of programs and services offered by many non-profits and corporations. They have thorough and rigorous approach. Contact Chris Wood of our staff for details. cwood@gwsae.org. You can help us but letting me know what you discover. Send me your e-mail address and I'll think about this further. It is a huge need.
Silver Spring, Maryland:
Dear Ms. Sarfati:
My name is Usha Khatri. I have been trying to find a suitable job for quite sometime, but no success so far. I am wondering whether you can help. As regards to my background, I have a Ph.D. in Analytical chemistry from The George Washington University. I taught chemistry in college for a number of years. However, due to my having small children, I resigned my teaching job and decided to spend more time taking care of them. When they started going to school, I did volunteer job at their school for a couple of years. Few years ago, I took a part time job at Montmogery Public School and I am still stuck there.
With my girls grown, I have looking for some jobs either in teaching or in some chemical lab. But I have been unsuccessful so far. It is propably due to the gap in my employment history. I would highly appreciate if you could respond to me. Thank you very much in advance.
Sincerely,
Usha Khatri
Susan Sarfati: Check out the American Chemical Society in DC. They have an excellent web site and career services center for chemists. On the trade assocation side - check out the American Chemistry Council located in Arlington, VA as another resource.
Washington, D.C.:
In the association arena, is it more beneficial for an applicant to have a variety of skill sets or to have one specialty?
Susan Sarfati: In a small association - you need to be a jack of all trades. By small, I am mean staffs of under 20 people. In a larger organization (some have staffs up to 1000), you would need specific skills as jobs are more delineated by specialty area. As in other aspects of life, this is a generalization but holds true mostly. If you need help putting your resume together, contact the GWSAE Career Center at mbrown@gwsae.org.
Washington, D.C.:
Right now, how strong do you think the association education job market is in the DC area? I have been working in the association education area for about 12 years but was recently laid off.
Second question if I may... I am hoping to obtain a senior management position in asociation education in DC. How long would you estimate it will take me to secure a position?
Susan Sarfati: This is my passion so I may be biased. Over 90% of post graduate education is provided in this country by associations. Therefore, there are many opportunities in associations for education professionals. It is also an exciting and rewarding career because you are making a difference. Be sure to check out job sites listed previously and also look at ASSOCIATION TRENDS and U.S. ASSOCIATION EXECUTIVE. These are two trade press publications in our profession and always have job listings. They are also available in The Center for Association Leadership's Knowledge Center.
Culpeper, Virginia:
I am a mid-career Federal government employee working in procurement. I have wanted to change careers for quite a while, and find myself now in a financial position to do so. I have good presentation skills, knowledge of word processing and spreadsheets, and the ability to navigate my way through a thicket of regulations to accomplish the required goals. Does any of this mean anything in terms of being given a chance to demonstrate my skills, or do organizations such as yours only want some single, 20-something with a masters degree who will work 100 hours per week?
Susan Sarfati: You have an excellent skill set that is tranferable to associations. We don't only look for 20 something individuals when hiring! Many people have made the transition from the government to associations and other sectors to associations after years in the work world. For example, GWSAE's current chairman elect transitioned from the military to an executive director of an association. I wonder if this audience is aware of association management companies. These are for profit companies that manage numerous associations and are good prospects for job searches.
Alexandria, Va.:
I am a retired Association Executive (President & CEO) with a CAE and a CMP. Is there any source to find part time or temporary assignments where my experience can be of use and I might be able to supplement my retirment income. The income is a secondary consideration.
Susan Sarfati: In this economic climate where associations have to do much more with less, so your expertise is very valuable. Why not advertise yourself in the trade press and do a personalized communication to people in your network of contacts? You also may want to volunteer in an association or non-profit to see where it leads. Contact some of the meeting planning/destination companies about part time work.
Bethesda, Md.:
Can you explain the difference between a nonprofit and an association. Sometimes they are the same thing but not always, right?
Susan Sarfati: Typically, a non profit is cause related such as the Boys & Girls Clubs, Food & Friends and sometimes are community based organizations but not always. Associations represent industries and professions most often. If the question relates to legal status, please contact one of the many association attorneys or come to the Knowledge Center to do research. The Washington Council of Agencies members are non-profits. At times though, the difference isn't crystal clear.
Washington, DC:
Please tell us more about association management companies.
Susan Sarfati: Association management companies are for profit entities that manage a variety of different associations. A listing of them is in the NTPA directory. Some of these management companies hire people to function as a CEO so this individual manages the entire association. Other management companies hire staff specialists such as meeting planners, communication director and PR folks and these staffers work for a variety of associations. In addition, some of these association management companies provide consulting services. They are excellent training grounds for growing association expertise.
Washington, D.C.:
I hope you can tell me if I'm being unreasonable or not. I work for a cause-related nonprofit, and one of my coworkers has repeatedly said that he is only here for the paycheck, doesn't care much about the issue, etc. I find this really objectionable (at least he could keep it to himself, if nothing else) and wonder if it's something I would be within my rights to pass along to our boss.
Susan Sarfati: Instead of you doing this, I wonder if this co-worker is part of a team. It would be more advisable to have this lack of commitment reveal itself in a team environment. That way, in addition to you, other staffers could put pressure on the non-committed individual. Include the boss in your meeting rather than you going to the boss. The boss is being paid to recognize the level of commitment of others. I share your frustration!!
WashingtonJobs.com:
That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the
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