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Thanksgiving Special:
Food Safety
With Diane Van
USDA Meat and Poultry Hotline
Thursday, Nov. 15, 2001; Noon EST
The groceries are bought, the menu is planned, the guests are invited and the table setting is perfect. All that's left to do is to cook this year's Thanksgiving feast. But you want your guests to be able to enjoy the meal without those telltale rumblings or other signs of food-borne illness.
What do you need to keep in mind when stuffing and basting a turkey and cooking those vegetables? What are the most important things to remember in preparing that meal and scarfing down those leftovers? Ask Diane Van, home economist for the USDA's Meat and Poultry Hotline and all-around diva of food handling, who's taking questions on how to make your holiday meal a very safe one.
A transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Washington, D.C.:
OK. What if we think we've eaten something, say turkey, that was underdone? Would eating something citrusy (lemon juice) help our stomach acids kill the salmonella (or other bacteria)? It sounds like a silly question, but there are heaps of times people eat things out of politeness that look just plain revolting, and what can we eat or do to protect ourselves if we suspect we've eaten something that can make us ill?
Diane Van: Good Afternoon, we will be answering questions on food safety for the next hour. If you have questions that we are unable to respond to before 1:00 PM, please call the USDA Meat and Poultry Hotline at 1-800-535-4555,Monday through Friday, 10:00 AM to 4:00 PM.
Eating something citrusy will not prevent you from becoming ill if you have eaten an unsafe food. If you suspect you have eaten something that may can harmful bacteria note the time consumed, and when the onset of symptoms occurred and seek treatment as necessary. If you are in an "at risk" group, seek medical care immediately. Likewise, if symptoms persist or are severe (such as bloody diarrhea, excessive nausea and vomiting, or high temperature), call your doctor.
Call the local health department if the suspect food was served at a large gathering, from a restaurant or other food service facility, or if it is a commercial product.
Washington, D.C.:
Dear Diane,
Glad to see you are doing this online chat. I know this goes without saying, but we would love it if you could mention that readers can get holiday food safety information on Fight BAC!s Web site at www.fightbac.org
We thought we would go ahead and submit a question that might be of interest to viewers:
Where can I go to get food safety tips for my family that I could download and hang on the refrigerator?
Sincerely,
Beth Johnson and Matt Keller
Diane Van: Good Afternoon Beth,
There are several web sites that you can visit for many food safety tips for your family:
www.fsis.usda.gov
www.fightbac.org
www.foodsafety.gov
Arlington, Va.:
If I go to a Thanksgiving buffet at a restaurant, should I be concerned about food sitting under heat lamps?
Diane Van: Health departments monitor restaurant operations. The heat lamps should be keeping the food hot - at 140 degrees F. If the food maintains 140 degrees F. or higher the food should be safe.
Baltimore, Md.:
How long can you safely keep cooked turkey
in the freezer to use for soup, chow mein,
or casseroles?
Diane Van: Cooked turkey may be kept in the freezer indefinitely but for best flavor use the cooked turkey within 4 months or 6 months if covered with broth or gravy. Foods frozen for a longer period of time remain safe, but may become dry and lose flavor. Your freezer should be kept at 0 degrees or below.
Washington, D.C.:
What temperature does a turkey have to reach to be done... and how long does that take? How early in the day should I start cooking my turkey? And do I put it in the oven frozen?
Diane Van: A turkey should reach 180 degrees on a food thermometer placed in the thigh of the turkey - between the leg and the breast in the deep crevice. The oven temperature should be 325 degrees F. APPROXIMATE COOKING TIMES:
Time charts are based on fresh or completely thawed turkeys at a refrigerator temperature of 40 ° F or below. Frozen or partially thawed turkeys will take longer to cook. The cooking time for a frozen turkey will take at least 50 percent longer than the time recommended for a fully thawed turkey. These cooking times are guidelines only. Use a food thermometer to determine safe doneness.
UNSTUFFED
4 to 6 lbs. breast...1 1/2 to 2 1/4 hrs.
6 to 8 lbs. breast...2 1/4 to 3 1/4 hrs.
8 to 12 lbs............
...2 3/4 to 3 hrs.
12 to 14 lbs.....
........3 to 3 3/4 hrs.
14 to 18 lbs...
....3 3/4 to 4 1/4 hrs.
18 to 20 lbs..
.....4 1/4 to 4 1/2 hrs.
20 to 24 lbs...
..........4 1/2 to 5 hrs.
STUFFED
8 to 12 lbs..........
...3 to 3 1/2 hrs.
12 to 14 lbs........
....3 1/2 to 4 hrs.
14 to 18 lbs.......
.....4 to 4 1/4 hrs.
18 to 20 lbs....
..4 1/4 to 4 3/4 hrs.
20 to 24 lbs...
...4 3/4 to 5 1/4 hrs.
Alexandria, Va.:
How many days before I have to eat/throw
away/freeze leftovers? Also, if I thaw
frozen leftovers, do I have to cook
immediately, or can you, say, cook half and
leave the other half for the next day? Thanks!
Diane Van: Leftover food should not be left out of the refrigerator for more than 2 hours. Refrigerate or freeze leftovers promptly in shallow containers. Wrap tightly for best quality. Storage Times for Leftovers:
Refrigerator (40 °F or slightly below)
Cooked Turkey.......
....
. 3 to 4 days
Stuffing and Gravy
.1 to 2 days
Other Cooked Dishes....
3 to 4 days
Freezer (0 °F or below)
Turkey slices/pieces, plain
..4 months
Turkey covered with broth/gravy
6 months
Cooked poultry dishes
.4 to 6 months
Stuffing and gravy
..1 month
(Foods frozen for a longer period remain safe, but may become dry and lose flavor.)
Frederick, Md.:
I'm serving dinner to my whole family on Thanksgiving Day. I only have one oven. It sure would be easy if I could just cook the turkey ahead of time and keep it warm while I cook the other food in the oven. Is that OK to do?
Diane Van: Use a thermometer in the thigh and keep the turkey above 140 degrees F. This may not be possible if you are unable to keep it in the oven. If you will not be eating within two hours, it will be safer if you cook the turkey the day before, cut it in smaller pieces and store in the refrigerator. Reheat the turkey at 325 degrees F. until it reaches 165 degrees F. on a food thermometer. Reheating a whole turkey is not recommended.
Rosslyn, Va.:
When cooking a stuffed bird, how long can the stuffing remain in the bird once it comes out of the oven -- i.e. while the turkey rests? Does it have to come out IMMEDIATELY or can it sit for an hour? I know that storing it in the bird is a big no-no.
Diane Van: Remove all stuffing from the turkey cavity immediately. The bird can stand 20 minutes before carving with the stuffing inside. But you MUST get the stuffing out as soon as the stand time is over.
Washington, D.C.:
I'll be taking a cornbread-sausage-apple stuffing to dinner 200 miles away. Is it safe to prepare, cook and refrigerate it Wednesday night and transport the whole thing cold on Thursday morning for reheating at our destination? What about doing stovetop prep (sausage, sauteeing onions and apples, etc) on Wednesday, taking that mixture to be combined with the bread and chicken stock just before it goes into the hostess's oven? Or can you recommend a better procedure?
Diane Van: Definitely cook the stuffing the day before and store in the refrigerator until just before starting on your trip. Put the cold casserole in a cooler with a cold source such as ice or a gel pack. Or you could prepare the ingredients ahead of time, keeping the wet and dry ingredients separate. Take in a cooler to your destination and mix and bake. Make sure the stuffing is moist , not dry, since heat destroys bacteria more rapidly in a moist environment.
Rosslyn, Va.:
Please stress the importance of not putting the stuffing into the bird until you are ready to cook it! I would venture that the majority of inexperienced turkey chefs do not realize how dangerous this is.
Thanks!
Diane Van: Excellent point! Stuffing a turkey or chicken ahead is very unsafe. It is safest to cook the stuffing in a casserole. If you are going to stuff the bird, it should be stuff just before cooking and the center of the stuffing inside the bird should reach 165 degrees F. on a food thermometer.
Alexandria, Va.:
Hi-
How long can I keep a frozen, uncooked turkey in the freezer? We bought a fresh turkey last year after Thanksgiving and immediately froze it -- is it still good?
Thanks!
Diane Van: A frozen turkey is safe in a 0 degree F. freezer indefinitely but is best used within one year. Turkeys frozen for a longer period of time remain safe but may become dry and change flavor.
washingtonpost.com:
At 1 p.m. join Kim O'Donnel for a special edition of What's Cooking devoted to preparing your Thanksgiving meal.
Overdone, W.Va.:
Don't you think there's something to be said against being TOO careful? I firmly believe that if we take our food safety to the obsessive, we're doing ourselves a disservice because we're not exposed to the bad stuff at all and have no chance to build an immunity. Yes, don't let stuff sit out all night (though I had roommates who used to do that, especially with corned beef), but don't go overboard. That way when you eat somewhere (restaurant or friend's) that doesn't take it to lab conditions you won't be affected by a couple of bacteria.
Diane Van: Following food safety guidelines is always important when handling food.
Washington, D.C.:
Why is it important to get the stuffing out of the bird ASAP? If it's piping hot, it's cooked, and leaving it in the bird will only serve to keep it hot. Am I missing something?
Diane Van: As the temperature of the stuffing begins to go down bacteria can multiply. It is safest to get the stuffing out of the bird as soon as possible.
Altoona, Pa.:
What's the safest way to defrost a turkey and how long should I allow?
Diane Van: The safest way to defrost is in the refrigerator. When thawing a turkey in the refrigerator, plan ahead. For every 5 pounds of turkey, allow approximately 24 hours of thawing time in a refrigerator set at 40 ΊF.
Refrigerator Thawing Times
(Whole turkey)
8 to 12 pounds
1 to 2 days
12 to 16 pounds
2 to 3 days
16 to 20 pounds
3 to 4 days
20 to 24 pounds
4 to 5 days
Foods thawed in the refrigerator can be safely refrozen without cooking, though there may be some loss of quality.
Rockville, Md.:
I'm planning to brine my turkey overnight -- as I've done the last few years. I read in an article somewhere that this can be done in a cooler (out of the refrigerator) with a few "blue ices" thrown in. Your thoughts?
Diane Van: It is safe to brine a turkey however it should be done in the refrigerator where the temperature can be controlled. I would not recommend putting in the cooler with just "blue ices" to keep it cold.
Rockville, Md.:
Diane: My husband loves to smoke a turkey with stuffing on the grill. I, on the other hand, love the smell the turkey makes in the house. I am also hesitant to cook stuffing outside. Should I be concerned? I am also worried that it won't be as juicy on the grill.
Diane Van: Grilling a turkey is a flavorful way to cook a turkey however we recommend not stuffing it. Use a food thermometer and make sure it reaches 180 degrees in the thigh. It should be juicy. If you like the smell of roasting turkey in the house, you may choose to roast turkey parts in the oven.
Washington, D.C.:
How early can I safely buy an unfrozen turkey and keep it in my fridge? I'm probably in the safety zone now, but in case I want to buy early in the future but not freeze.
Diane Van: USDA recommends that a fresh turkey be purchased 1 - 2 days before you are going to cook the turkey. The turkey may not stay of good quality in the home refrigerator which is kept at 40 degrees or below. Generally the grocery stores keep the turkeys at a lower temperature and can keep them longer. If you buy the turkey more than 2 days ahead it may be spoiled when you are ready to prepare it on Thanksgiving Day.
Washington, D.C.:
Again, on the stuffing. You said that bacteria start to multiply as the temperature goes down. Well... wouldn't the temperature decrease faster in stuffing that's in a bowl than stuffing that's in a hot turkey?
Diane Van: The stuffing should be taken out of the bird and served. It should be stored in the refrigerator within 2 hours so that it can be chilled. It is difficult to control the temperature of the stuffing if you are leaving it in the bird.
Fairfax, Va.:
What are the advantages/disadvantages to buying/cooking a bird from a slaughter house rather than the frozen grocery store variety?
Diane Van: Personal preference is what determines where you purchase your turkey. Some people have favorite turkey farms, grocery stores, brands or fresh/frozen varieties that they prefer.
Alexandria, Va.:
Hi Diane,
Thanks for being here. I've seen lots of recipes for turkey roasting that suggest you bring your turkey to room temperature before placing it in the oven. Is this safe to do? And for how long can you leave a turkey sitting out before you have to worry?
Also, I've been considering brining my turkey. I've seen some chefs suggest placing the turkey and brine in a kitchen garbage bag and I've seen others say NOT to do that because those bags are chemically treated and could be harmful. Who is right?
Diane Van: The turkey can sit at room temperature for no longer than two hours before cooking however we recommend putting it in the oven as soon as you take it out of the refrigerator and finish preparing for roasting.
We do not recommend using a garbage bag for brining a turkey. Garbage bags are not food grade. We recommend using a food-grade plastic, stainless steel or glass container .
Not about turkey:
Dear Diane,
My husband and I have an 8 hour drive to reach our family. There are a couple of things I would like to make in advance and wonder if it is safe to do so. I'd appreciate your advice.
1. Cranberry sauce
2. Squash soup
3. Pumpkin pie
I'm most concerned with the soup (though it doesn't contain any dairy).
Thank you.
Diane Van: You can prepare any of these dishes the day before and refrigerate. When you are ready to leave for your trip, put them in a cooler with a cold source, such as ice or freezer gel. As long as the cold souce is keeping the food cold, it will remain safe.
Fresh birds:
So, if I buy a fresh turkey on Saturday, I have to put in the freezer right away, then take it out on Tuesday to start thawing it? What's the point of a fresh bird then? And the store will be all out if I wait until Tuesday to purchase!
Diane Van: Ask the store to keep it for you until Tuesday. Or if you have a second refrigerator - one that is not opened often - you can lower the temperature of the refrigerator and that will probably extend the storage time. Use a refrigerator thermometer and make sure the temperature of the refrigerator says around 35 degrees or below.
If Deep Frying a Bird. . .:
May sound silly but people have to remember it is an OUTDOOR activity. Do not try it in the kitchen on the stove. Also, if you do it outside, you do not stuff the bird. Belive it or not, people have done both.
Diane Van: That is correct. Deep frying a turkey should only be done outdoors and unstuffed.
Montgomery Village, Md.:
Can I buy a fresh turkey on Saturday and keep in the refrigerator for cooking on Friday? (Since we attend an extended family meal on Thanksgiving, My family likes to cook a turkey the day after Thanksgiving so we can have leftovers).
Diane Van: A fresh turkey should only be kept in the refrigerator for 1 - 2 days. You may want to buy a frozen turkey and put it in the refrigerator to defrost. A 20 - 25 lb turkey will defrost in about 6 days.
Falls Church, Va.:
I put my 17 lb. frozen turkey in the refrigerator to thaw yesterday. How long can I safely keep it refrigerated once it thaws?
Diane Van: You really only need 4 days to defrost and it can stay in the refrigerator thawed for 2 days. You have allowed 8 days which may be too long. I would suggest putting it back in the freezer. Take it out of the freezer and put it in the refrigerator Saturday. That should be plenty of time.
Arlington, Va.:
I bought a 5 pound pumpkin which I'm planning to use to make pies and also a vegetable dish for Thanksgiving dinner. I'll need to make the pies ahead and keep refrigerated. Will it be safe to cut the pumpkin open on, say, Tuesday evening, use half or 3/4 to make the pies, and wrap the leftover pumpkin in plastic wrap to be cooked Thursday morning?
Diane Van: That should be perfectly safe to do.
Thank you for all your wonderful questions. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving and most of all a food safe Thanksgiving. If you have further questions, please call the Meat and Poultry Hotline at 1-800-535-4555 or check the food safety web sites at
www.fsis.usda.gov
www.fightbac.org
www.foodsafety.gov
washingtonpost.com:
That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the
discussion.
Stay tuned to Live Online:
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