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Herblock Remembered
With Mike Luckovich
Editorial Cartoonist, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Tuesday, Oct. 9, 2001; 2 p.m. EDT
Herblock, the Washington Post's political cartoonist who skewered political figures from Herbert Hoover to George W. Bush, died Sunday night in Washington, D.C. He was 91. With pen and ink, Herbert L. Block chronicled events from Hitler's rise in the 1930s and World War II, the Cold War, the Clinton scandals and most famously, Watergate -- for which he shared a Pulitzer Prize with the newspaper for its coverage. Herblock, won three Pulitzer Prizes for editorial cartooning and dozens of other awards including the Presidential Medal of Freedom, which President Clinton bestowed upon him in 1994.
Mike Luckovich is the editorial cartoonist for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. He was online to discuss Herblock's legacy and editorial cartooning on Tuesday, Oct. 9.
Luckovich, winner of the 1995 Pulitzer Prize for editorial cartooning and several other awards, got his start as a cartoonist at the Greenville News in South Carolina. He spent four years at The Times-Picayune in New Orleans before moving to Atlanta. His work is syndicated nationally and appears in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
The transcript follows.
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washingtonpost.com:
Good afternoon, Mike, and thanks for joining us. What has Herblock's influence been on you? How do you think he influenced editorial cartoonists throughout his career?
Mike Lukovich: His influence on me
I think it is more personal. As you read about him you begin to find that he was such a humble person. He was an icon and yet he was so self-effacing and so sweet. He was a great role model in that way. I think editorial cartoonists have such a wonderful job and we should all feel lucky. He was a legend, but he was such a decent sweet person. He never came across as being self-important and I love that about him.
He was one of the greats when it came to being very hard hitting and not to be afraid to have strong opinions The fact that his career could have spanned such a long time and still maintained such a strong consistency. All of the editorial cartoonists that had the pleasure looked up to him.
He was very fortunate that he could get to do this for so long and I just hope that I am that fortunate.
Washington, D.C.:
What do you think an editorial cartoonist's role should be? You're often looked to to be funny, I'm sure. What do you think is the function of a cartoon?
Mike Luckovich: Well, I think that on a day to day basis it varies. Actually for almost the last decade the issues haven't been life and death issues, at least in the United States, so we have been dealing with issues that are on a smaller scale. Myself and my colleagues around my age always talked about, unlike Herblock and some of the people doing it for so long, not having Watergate or WWII. We always felt that we weren't dealing with issues involving great struggles. That said, we still had a lot of enthusiasm for what we were doing.
Up until September 11th my cartoons had been to go after what I felt was wrong in our society, to try and make things better for the less fortunate, to speak for the less fortunate and to mock what I felt were irresponsible policies (i.e., Bush's tax cut) But after Sept. 11 the world has changed. Now I view my cartoons as a way to put the tragedy and all the things associated with it in context for my readers. I still question what is going on, but I suddenly feel that editorial cartooning has much more relevance.
Silver Spring, Md.:
Can you talk about the process of editorial cartooning? How do you get your ideas? Are there any restrictions on what you can say?
Mike Luckovich: I get my ideas based on sure panic. I usually get in around 11:30 in the afternoon and my deadline is 5:30 p.m. The first thing I do is have lunch (cause I can't think until I have had lunch). Then I read my favorite Web sites, read newspapers and watch TV News -- which I find relaxing. I get to ponder issues without having to actually come up with anything at that point. Then when it gets to be around 3 p.m. I start getting nervous because it gets close to my deadline. I compare it to a runners high. I call it my "silliness- high." That is when I can take a serious point and get to it in a serious way. I feel like I am successful if I can be hard hitting and humorous at the same time.
Around 3 p.m. and 3:30 p.m. I come up with a couple of ideas and I show them to a couple of younger guys here in the editorial department. I must have a psychological problem, because I like it when they tell me they stink. It is a good kick in the pants. I can usually go into my office at that point and get one or two more ideas. Then I'll bring those ideas out to them and they will usually say "I like this one a lot" and I will show it to my editor and if she likes it I will draw it.
Because of the way I work and the way I like to panic I have eliminated penciling anything in. I basically show her stick drawings and when I get ready for the final drawing I ink it in right on the page. I have a gallon of Whiteout here because I screw up so much, But it saves me a lot of time if I am close to deadline.
I found with my editor Cynthia Tucker, that she has a problem if I draw someone with their pants down. It is usually a matter of taste. Of course, having Clinton around for eight years, I have a lot more leeway now, so I can almost draw someone with their pants down.
Washington, D.C.:
Editorial cartoonists seem to be a pretty close bunch. Did you and Herblock or do you and other cartoonists bounce ideas off of one another?
Mike Luckovich: I didn't bounce ideas off of Herblock. I did call him occasionally and I sent him some of my Whiteout pens recently. When Herblock would screw up he would take an exacto knife and cut out a piece of a white label with adhesive on the back and he would place that on the drawing. He sent me four packs of these labels.
I have known Herblock for 10 or 12 years. We were in the same syndicate together, but the first time we spent time together was about 10 years ago was at a Washington Post cartoonist dinners. About 10 cartoonists and politicos would show up. After dinner the cartoonists would get up and tell a story.
About 10 years ago I was invited to my first dinner. I was really nervous because I was a young cartoonist and all of these well known cartoonists was there. I was so nervous that when I went in the bathroom I couldn't pee. Herblock waked in and, for medial reasons I imagine, couldn't pee either. There we were standing side by side at the Washington Post bathroom in the same situation. We both started talking and hit it off from there.
In 1994, Herblock had a book come out. There is an award called the RFK award, and at that time he had won a special award for his book. I had won one for my cartoons. We were sitting next to each other. It was a solemn event. Herblock got his and I got mine, a dark brown bust of bust of RFK, and I leaned over to Herblock and said "Look, mine is chocolate." Herblock leans over to me and said "Gee, don't start eating it already."
I felt very comfortable with him.
Washington, D.C.:
Where does Herblock fit in the pantheon of political cartoonists, Thomas Nast, etc. Who are your favorites?
Mike Luckovich: He is a legend. I think you would say Herblock and Nast when you talk about the two legendary cartoonists. There are other fine cartoonists as well, but those two have to be at the pinnacle.
Another guy that past away recently was Jeff MacNelly. He was really my reason for getting into editorial cartooning. I always like Mad Magizine. There was a cartoonist there named Mort Drucker, who had a cartoony yet realistic style. Me dream was to become a Mad Magazine cartoonist for a long time. Then I saw MacNelly's work. He was a beautiful draftsman and had a fun wit about his cartoons and he really got me into editorial cartoons. Editorial cartoons really fit my critical personality.
Arlington, Va.:
I found Mr. Block to be ahead of his time on many social issues. In the '60s, he was taking those who supported segregation to task. What do you think his legacy is?
Mike Luckovich: He was ahead of his time. One thing I didn't know that I read in the Post today was that he was pro-campaign finance reform before McCain was born. He was always true to his beliefs. Herb knew right from wrong. He had such a wonderful moral code and I think that will part of his legacy. He was threatened and almost lost one of his first jobs because the publisher didn't agree with him. The day he was going to be fired he won his first Pulitzer.
East Stroudsburg, Pa.:
Could you address the graphic style of Herblock? It seems that in his work, less is definitely more, and that he built on the work of previous generations -- in the grand tradition of caricature.
I will miss him very much.
--Ralph
Mike Luckovich: I don't mean this in a negative way, but his style was very much old school. He had been drawing for quite a while. His style was definitely different the cartoonists that followed him. I was out of the famous Mad Magazine tradition. He used a heavy line, charcoal and a grease pencil. Most cartoonists I know don't use these tools today. His style was from an earlier era, but his ideas and politics were always fresh. He was one of the only cartoonists in America that drew in the old vertical format. This was the standard in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. The fact that he drew the way he did and in the format that he did made his drawings pure Herblock. He couldn't be copied. There was very comfortable about that. You always knew that he was fighting the good fight and that his style was part of that special Herblock magic.
Arlington, Va.:
Who has been your favorite person -- president, probably -- to draw?
Mike Luckovich: Comic strip artists have characters. Jim Davis has Garfield and that is his character. With an editorial cartoon your favorite character is whoever you are drawing the most -- whoever is in the oval office. For 4 to 8 years the President is my Garfield
and not President Garfield. So now the current occupant, W Bush is the guy I have been focusing on. With his situation -- the disputed election, etc. -- coming into office, I kind of questioned whether he was up to the job. So up until Sept. 11 I was drawing him as a little tiny guy in the Oval Office with gigantic ears. I have not put him in a cartoon since but this week I plan on doing so. I haven't drawn this cartoon out yet, but he will be bigger and the ear size is going to come down. I think that his handling of the crisis, for the most part, has been good. His public pronouncements have been right on the money and I think that right now is not a great time for unnecessary ridicule. This being America, I still think that you can criticize things. That is what makes us great -- our freeflowing discussion. It is one of the reasons we are fighting.
So Bush is still going to be my favorite character, but never since I have been a cartoonist have I changed a President in this way. Normally when you draw a President you draw him fairly large, and by the end of his presidency he becomes smaller. In my case with Bush, he started out very small, but I will make him bigger because of the tragedy, his response and his leadership thusfar.
Mike Luckovich: I am going to miss Herb and as I said earlier there is sadness because he is no longer with us, but I take my hat off to him because he got to do so many wonderful things. His life is really a celebration and I am glad I got to know him and he considered me a friend. Thank you for letting me say these things about him.
washingtonpost.com:
That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the
discussion.
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