By Craig Cola / wp.com What's Cooking Hosted by Kim O'Donnel washingtonpost.com Staff Wednesday, March 17, 1999 Cookbook author Margaret Johnson recently took your questions on Irish cuisine. Stay tuned for more live food and wine discussions every Wednesday at noon: March 24, What's Cooking, hosted by Kim O'Donnel, noon EST; March 31, The Grapevine, noon EST; and April 7, What's Cooking, hosted by Kim O'Donnel. Plus: Every Thursday at noon, Post restaurant critic Phyllis Richman leads a live discussion on Washington's dining scene. Following is the transcript from this week's discussion.

Kim O'Donnel: Hi everyone and welcome to What's Cooking, our live online culinary hour. I'm thrilled to introduce Margaret Johnson, author of "The Irish Heritage Cookbook," just in time for St. Patrick's Day. Margaret is logging on from New York City, where revelers are in the midst of parading down Fifth Avenue.

Kim O'Donnel: Welcome Margaret and Happy St. Patrick's Day! Tell us what propelled your interest in the food of Ireland...

Margaret Johnson: Happy StPatrick's Day to you also. I guess I became interested in food following my original interest in Ireland iteself. I had written a book on European festivals and was looking for an Irish "topic" to explore when I was going to return there in 1991. It was just about the time that Irish food was undergoing a "culinary rehnaissance" so I decided I'd research the reasons behind the resurgence. It all flowed smoothly from that point and I've returned to Ireland 14 more times since then and continue to investigate how Irish food is evolving into the 21st century.

Kim O'Donnel: So if you were playing a word association game and you said "Irish cooking," most people would say "potatoes." Is that a well-deserved stereotype?

Margaret Johnson: It probably is a well-deserved reply because potatoes were are still are an important component int he Irish diet, but as far as being a stereotype, it's probably unfair. There's so much more to Irish cooking than potatoes and much more to it than the old joke about an Irish seven course meal---a six-pack and a boiled potato. I'm sure anyone's who has traveledto Ireland in the last 5-10 years will attest to the facaat that there's a lot more to Irish cooking than spuds and beer---thank God!

Kim O'Donnel: You say in your book that "Irish fare today is much more than soda bread and corned beef and cabbage washed down with a pint." What kinds of changes have you seen to Irish food in recent years?

Margaret Johnson: One of the biggest changes has been in the introduction of ethnic cooking---Italian, Asian, fusion, etc., in places throughout Ireland. But as far as Irish cooking as a "national" cuisine, I guess it would have to be the increased use of seafood as an ingredient and the variety of ways in which tradiational dishes like boxty, colcannon and champ (all potato dishes)show up in dishes in upscale restaurant and hotels.

Arlington, VA: I recently returned to the States after living in Northern Ireland for a year, and came to know Irish "cuisine" intimately. It has vastly improved since I started visiting regularly about 10 years ago. Of course, you can still get chips with your baked potato, and lasagna is served with chips (okay, everything is served with chips). But, boy, do I miss champ (mashed potatoes, scallions, cream and butter) and potatoes in any form -- why DO they taste so much better over there, anyway?

Margaret Johnson: Coincidentally, I just returned from Northern Ireland myself.I can only venture a guess about why dishes like that taste better over there and that would bave to be with the sweetness of the butter and cream and the different varieties of potatoes grown there. Again, it's only a guess.

Washington DC: I do have a corned beef with peppercorns, bayleaf, potatoes and cabbage at home in the crockpot. what do you recommend my doing once I get home to complete cooking it and serve somthing delicious?

Margaret Johnson: Regrettably, I've never made corned beef in a crock pot so have no idea how the meat and vegetables will cook evenly. You're on your own for this one. However, you can bake a loaf of soda bread ( I have 3 or 4 recipes in my book) in about a half hour. This would be a good accompaniment.

Long Island, N.Y.: Is there such a thing as Jewish Irish cooking? If so, do you have any recipes?

Margaret Johnson: Are you kidding? Call Arthur Schwartz on WOR radio for an answer.

Boston, MA: How many different kinds of Irish Soda Bread are there and which is most popular in Ireland? My favorite is the standard brown bread made with Guiness.

Margaret Johnson: There are several types---brown, white, raisin, and a delicious one I make with Guinness and barley malt. If you're the caller I think you are, didn't you sample three varieties at my house last Saturday. Happy Birthday, Julia.

Cherry Hill, N.J.: How to cook corned beef?

Margaret Johnson: I corn my own brisket of beef (recipe in my book on page 63)for 24-48 hours. I then simmer it for several hours (depending on the size) until it's fork tender.

Arlington, VA: Got a good recipe for Irish Stew (the kind with lamb)? Haven't had any really good stuff since I was in Cork four years ago.

Margaret Johnson: There's a good recipe for Irish Stew in my book, page 105.
There are 14 lamb recipes in the chapter called "From the Hillside," so I'd suggest trying some of these if you like lamb.

Arlington, VA: Do you have a recipe for champ? That previous question to you about it has me intrigued.

Margaret Johnson: There's a recipe from champ on page 8 of my cookbook.

Richmond, VA: What's a standard meal in Ireland, besides Corn Beef and Cabbage?

Margaret Johnson: Corned beef and cabbage is not a traditional Irish meal, it's a traditional Irish-American dish. The Irish in Ireland would eat bacon and cabbage more often as a traditional meal (loin of bacon, not American sliced bacon)but now the Irish eat beef and lamb, salmon, and, of course, fish and chips, vegetable soups, etc. It's all great, too.

Kim O'Donnel: Margaret, I'm going to ask the question some of us are probably afraid to ask. What's black pudding and what does it taste like?

Margaret Johnson: Okay, you asked for it! Black pudding is like a blood pudding, a combination of spices, oatmeal, and some other indescribable ingredient from a pig!! It is a standard ingredient in an Irish breakfast or "fry-up" along with white pudding, eggs, rashers (sliced bacon) and bangers (sausages), grilled tomatoes and mushrooms.It has a very spicy taste and when I first tasted it I politely pushed it to the side of my plate. I must admiot the tasate has grown on me now and I quite like it. Irish chefs are using it in more unconventional ways now, in salads, etc. and I've several recipes for it in my cookbook. Americans can order it by mail from Shannon Traditional Products (phone number is lilsted at back of my book in "Resources" section)

New York, NY: On my last trip to Ireland I had something called Ballymalloe (spelling?) chutney, which was just delicious with brie. Any idea where I might find this in New York (or, alternatively, make it)?

Margaret Johnson: It's spelled Ballymaloe, from the country house in County Cork where "New" Irish cooking was practically invented. At the back of my cookbook I have a list of "Resources" where you can find Irish food in America.

Hoboken, NJ: Hello Mrs.Johnson,
Do you feel Magic's Pub on Main Street Westhampton Beach is an ideal Irish restaurant?
Did you know most of the Hoop Troop is Irish?

Thanks,
Danny Stratemeier

Margaret Johnson: No Magic's Pub is not an ideal Irish restaurant; in fact, it's not even a very good hamburger joint. As for the hoop troop, they let one German kid in and ruined the whole bunch.

Arlington, VA: My husband and I traveled to Ireland for our honeymoon last summer and loved the people, the countryside, etc. But when it came to Irish cuisine, we stopped eating it around Day 5 -- it was all so bland. The breakfasts were all the same and the dinner's weren't terribly impressive. However, the staples we came to love were their soups (mostly vegetable and mushroom) and a wonderful beef stew made with Guinness. (by the way, we had the most wonderful Italian meal in Kilkenny! An Italian immigrant opened a restaurant there!).

What did we miss??

Margaret Johnson: I think you should have purchased a guide book pointing out where some of the best food can be found. As for breakfast, the traditional breakfast is one I described earlier, and most people visiting Ireland don't want or expect bagels and sticky buns for breakfast. I strongly urge you to buy my book and see what Irish food can be about beyond the blandness you experienced.

Washington, DC: When I was in Ireland in the late 80s, the food was horrible. Second rate ingredients, poorly prepared. Dried soup mixes seemed to be a staple, even in small cafes and restaurants. I can't believe its changed that much in just a little over ten years. Since then I have always chuckled over the "Irish Cuisine" articles that proliferate this time of year. Would I really be surprised if I went back?

Margaret Johnson: Absolutely! There are Michelin star restaurants throughout Ireland, including a Japanese one named Shiro in Ahkista, Co. Cork. How's that for a surprise?!

New York, NY: While the traditional meal on St. Patrick's Day has always consisted of corned beef and cabbage or Sheppard's Pie...What other dishes would you suggest for those looking to stay "green" but cook something different this holiday?

Margaret Johnson: I'd suggest you try something with salmon or lamb, or try to get an invitation to a Patio Villas party.

Kim O'Donnel: Margaret, who are some of the big Irish chefs responsible for influencing the palate? I also understand that the cooking school in Ireland (name and location escapes me) has a very good reputation and is comparable to those in the U.S.?

Margaret Johnson: Myrtle Allen, hostess at Ballymaloe House, Shanagarry, Co. Cork is one of the earliest to promote Irish food as a cultural identity. Gerry Galvin is another. Darina Allen, daughter-in-law of Myrtle, runs the Ballymaloe Cooking School and is herself an "industry." She has written several cookbooks, is a TV personality, and has a line of food now, including ice cream.

Arlington, Va.: What does your most favorite Irish meal consist of, from appetizer through desert?

Margaret Johnson: I love smoked salmon as a starter or a nice soup, but love dishes made with farmhouse cheese. I used to order lamb a lot but now I try to sample as much seafood as possible. As for dessert, I prefer a platter of Irish cheese with some fruit, although a like Irish puddings and cakes.

Kim O'Donnel: Okay Margaret, I think we're getting people intrigued. So what can you suggest to folks who want to leave work this afternoon, pick up a few items at the supermarket and try making something Irish that's quick and easy (and not the same ole same ole) for dinner tonight?

Margaret Johnson: I think the first item they should pick up is "THe Irish Heritage Cookbook." After that, it's wide open!
Seriously, a fillet of salmon, some potatoes, maybe some Irish bacon, or some lamb chops. There are loads of quick and easy recipes in the book for lamb, beef, even chicken than can immediately be Irish. The recipe for salmon with bacon and cabbage (page 142) or with leeks (page 141) is very easy, as is the one for chicken with bacon and cabbage on page 58.

Bowie, MD: Are there any limits to cooking with Guinness? I was in Dublin for St. Pat's 2 years ago, and it seemed like everything was caked in some sort of Guinness batter.

Margaret Johnson: Yes there are limits. I think you ate in the wrong places.

Huntingtown, MD: I'm having my annual St. Patrick's Day party on Saturday. I traditionally serve Irish Stew, Corned Beef and Cabbage (from a crock pot and it is wonderful), and Roast Leg of Lamb. Do you have any suggestions for something different? Ideally, it would be something I could make in advance and it would be suited for a crowd; 50-80 adults and children. Thank you.

Margaret Johnson: Cooking for a crowd is tricky. It sound like you've picked the easiest dishes for so many people. Maybe you could add something with smoked salmon or try one of the cheese dishes in chapter 3.

Rockville, Maryland: Exactly what is "corned beef"?
How does it get to be "corned?"

What is the difference from beef brisket-I had wanted to try cooking one-but all of them look so "fatty" that they didn't look to be worth the price?

Margaret Johnson: Corning is "marinating" meat in a brine of salt and water.

Washington, D.C.: Do the Irish have anything like haggis? What's the most adventuresome Irish food you've eaten?

Margaret Johnson: Not as far as I know. The mopst adventuresome food I've eaten was black pudding, although now it's like old hat---not in flavor, of couse, but in the fact that I enjoy it now.

Arlington, VA: Does the cuisine vary greatly in Northern and Southern Ireland?

Margaret Johnson: No, it's great everywhere!

Kim O'Donnel: Well, we're out of time. Hope all of your St. Patrick's Day feasts are delicious and fun. Join me next Wednesday, March 24 at noon, when I'll take your home cooking questions personally. Til then, eat well...

Back to the top