Host: Abigail Trafford

Schools are the targets for the ongoing cola wars, but what are the health implications for students? School Districts are giving exclusive contracts to Coke or Pepsi to supply vending machines of sodas in schools and in return, schools get money.

Michael Jacobson, executive director for the Center for Science in the Public Interest is our guest for "Health Talk," a weekly discussion with Abigail Trafford, The Post's Health editor on Tuesday, March 23 from 2-3 p.m. EST.

Jacobson has authored or co-authored more than a dozen major books and reports, including, most recently, What Are We Feeding Our Kids? and Marketing Madness.

Submit your questions to him on the cola wars in schools, the possible health consequences and what can should done about this growing demand for these exclusive school contracts.

Abigail Trafford: Hello. Welcome to Health Talk. The subject today is kids and colas. Teenagers are drinking more soft drinks these days and some health advocates are concerned about so much consumption of caffeine and "empty" calories. But who can resist a coke or pepsi? Our guest today is raising questions about kids and colas. We invited a representative of the soft drink industry to join us today on Health Talk, but he was not able to make it.

Baltimore, Md.: What does the research say about the possible connection between increased cases of ADD and ADHD with the increased consumption of refined sugar products and caffeine among our youth?

Michael Jacobson: Relatively few studies have looked at whether sugar and caffeine cause ADHD. Most studies did not find a connection with sugar, while a couple did. My sense is that sugar is a minor cause of hyperactivity.

On caffeine, even less research has been done. It is clear, though, that caffeine is a stimulant drug and not something that children should be getting a lot of.

Springfield, Va.: What percentage of school soda machine sales to children do you estimate are diet drinks, perhaps even more dangerous to children's health than the so-called "liquid sugar" (non-diet soda)?
In schools that permit children to use soda machines, do you favor banning diet soft drinks? Thanks!

Michael Jacobson: I've never seen figures on the percentage of sodas that are diet (artificially sweetened). But less than 10% of the soda that teenagers drink are diet sodas, so I suspect the same thing occurs in schools.

I don't think that schools should be allowing ANY kind of sodas. Both diet and regular sodas replace more nutritious foods (or water). At least diet sodas don't promote tooth decay and have no calories (though I'm not aware of any evidence that they promote weight loss -- and Americans have been getting fatter and fatter).

Fairfax, Va.: If soda becomes a regular part of a child's diet, what are the long term effects on the body?

Abigail Trafford: Alas there is not a lot of good long term research on the effects of drinking soda in children. Most research has looked at caffeine and adult condition such as pregnancy and heart disease and cancer, but it's hard to draw conclusions about kids. On study by the National Cancer Institute found that children who are obese got a higher percentage of calories from soft drinks compared to kids who were not obese.

Michael Jacobson: There are two main problems due to (a) what soda contains and (b) what soda replaces in the diet:

(a) the sugar almost certainly contributes to obesity in many people, as well as tooth decay. A certain segment of the adult population that eats a lot of sugar experiences higher triglyceride levels in their blood, increasing the risk of heart disease. The caffeine is a mildly addictive stimulant drug. Not to mention the artificial colorings and flavorings.

(b) soda pop often replaces more healthful foods. In teens, what is often replaced is milk. Girls, in particular, may be at higher risk of broken bones in teen years and, forty years from now, may be at higher risk of osteoporosis and broken bones.

Arlington, Va.: How bad is cola consumption for children?

Michael Jacobson: The average teenage soft-drink drinker gets about 10% of calories from soft drinks, with many children obviously getting many more calories.

If kids were also eating plenty of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and other healthful foods, one wouldn't be so concerned about a can of soda every day. But the fact is that VERY few kids consume healthful diets -- and the soda pop is either adding extra calories or replacing foods that could be providing nutrients.

Soda is basically sugar-water, about ten teaspoons per can. It offers no nutrition and should be kept to a minimum, if consumed at all. (Try mixing seltzer water with orange juice for a fizzy refreshing drink with some vitamins and minerals in it.)

St. Louis, Missouri: With all the other serious issues we need to be worried about regarding our kids in schools (violence, drugs, dropping test scores, etc.), do you really think soft drinks deserve our attention? With education budgets shrinking, these vending contracts seem to be a valuable source of extra income for schools, and kids are going to drink what they want anyway. If it's not available in the school, they'll buy it at the store and bring it in.

Abigail Trafford: The article, written by Marc Kaufman, presented this view from many who support the contracts as a relatively benign and profitable way for school districts to raise money. Sodas are NOT toxic--so how do you weigh the risks against the benefits. More on that, Mr. Jacobson?

Michael Jacobson: Talk about serious issues: Obesity rates are soaring -- both in adults and kids...and soda is almost certainly a contributor. While soda pop may not be as dangerous as nuclear bombs, it is something that parents -- and anyone concerned about health -- should be concerned about.

Schools are in a bind. Many school districts need money, and taxpayers have said they won't pay higher taxes....sooo, what the school districts are doing is taxing the students themselves. Every time a student spends a buck on a soda, the school keeps about 50 cents. I think that grownups should be paying for good schools...and that schools should not be endorsing the consumption of a nutritionally worthless or harmful product. Doing so sure puts health teachers in a tough spot.

It is also worth noting that the soft-drink money comprises less than 1% of school budgets. Surely they should be able to find that modest sum in their budgets (perhaps by reducing overhead at 'headquarters').

Provo, Utah: Isn't caffiene considered a drug? How do the schools justify pumping caffiene, which is addictive, into students when they are all fighing an anti-drug campaing. I realize that caffiene is far less damaging than other drugs, nevertheless, it has been proven that it has negative effects. It just seems like a contradiction to me.

Abigail Trafford: Most researchers believe that caffeine has the same effect on children as it does on adults. But it doesn't have toxic effects. Indeed after repeated use, it can cause withdrawal symptoms. Researchers are concerned, but as a story today in Health by Carole Sugarman, explains, just how much of a hazard is not clear. Certainly not as much as illegal drugs that are addictive. What do you think?

Michael Jacobson: You're right, Abigail. Caffeine certainly isn't as addictive or dangerous as hard drugs. But I think it is completely inappropriate (a) to allow a mildly addictive stimulant drug in products consumed so heavily by children and teens, and (b) for school systems to endorse the consumption of caffeine-containing sugar-water by signing deals with soda companies and encouraging students to buy those products.

If it is up to school administrators, I don't think we'll see any progress. It will take strong involvement by parents to improve the nutritional environment in their schools.

ny, ny: Does this invalidate the study? :
After spending two years with 30 rodents, researcher Astrid Nehlig of the French
National Health Medical Research Institute found that moderate consumption
increases energy and renders addiction "quite unlikely."

The study was funded by the French coffee industry and her employer.

Abigail Trafford: Mr. Jacobson--here's a study that seems to say, hey, worrying about colas is much ado about nothing. What do you think?

Michael Jacobson: That new study, being on animals, doesn't shed much light on caffeine's effects on humans.

I think the bottom line on caffeine is that for most people in most situations a little caffeine isn't a problem. However, pregnant women (or women who are trying to become pregnant) and people with insomnia or heart disease or jitters should avoid caffeine. And anyone who is consuming more than a couple of cups of caffeinated coffee or soda pop should re-think their diet (the chances are that if they're consuming a lot of those beverages, the rest of their diet is probably not terrific).

Washington, D.C.: What do you suggest that kids drink in schools? Do juices really have less sugar?

Abigail Trafford: Many school dieticians recommend that students drink juices and milk and water. The cola companies supply juices and water in their vending machines so students can choose healthier beverages. The companies declined to say how often students choose colas over other beverages. And whatever happened to the water fountain at school? Mr. Jacobson, what would you advise?

Michael Jacobson: I agree, Abigail. My hunch is that if those vending machines offer real juice and bottled water in addition to soda, the vast majority of products purchased is soda pop.

Kids should drink water, low-fat or fat-free milk, and real juice. (Don't be fooled by the Fruitopia and FruitWorks that Coke and Pepsi offer -- they're both basically sugar-water, or, actually, corn syrup-water.)

Washington, DC: Isn't it true that if soft drinks aren't offered for sale in secondary schools, students will simply either bring them from home or leave the campus and purchase them at nearby stores and fast food establishments? How would this improve either the nutrition habits or revenue needs of students?

Michael Jacobson: Yes, of course, some kids might buy a soda across the street or bring one from home, but that doesn't mean that the schools should be aiding their junk-food habit.

Schools should be teaching what's best, not what's most expedient. Should schools be promoting bad grammar and punctuation just because kids might be accustomed to that at home? I think that schools should offer the best -- in history, math, language...and nutrition, both in the classroom and in cafeterias and hallways.

Baltimore, Maryland: What? isn't all colas alike!!!
if not what's different?

Abigail Trafford: There are diet colas, and decaffeinated colas. There are sports drinks and ginger ales and other kinds of soft drinks. For more information on the subject of soft drinks you can contact the American Council on Science and Health at 212 362-7044. You can also get in touch with the National Soft Drink Association. In a press release the soft drink association responded to the concerns of Mr. Jacobson and the Center for Science and the Public Interest this way: "Cspi's strained efforts to blame soft drinks for various health issues simply are not supported by the facts. . . . The message to American consumers is simple. Enyoy a well-balanced diet of which soft drinks can be a refreshing part."

Michael Jacobson: Some colas are worse than others. Some have more caffeine, sugar, etc. See CSPI's web site for more information: www.cspinet.org.

If you're question is, 'which should I buy?' -- I'd recommend buying supermarket brands. They're just as bad nutritionally, but at least they're cheaper than Coke and Pepsi.

COPIAGUE, NY: WHAT ARE SCHOOLS DOING TO EDUCATE CHILDREN INTO HEALFULL EATING HABITS

Michael Jacobson: With a few exceptions, very few schools are doing much to teach kids about healthful eating and to encourage healthful eating in classrooms.

If you'd like to see changes, don't wait for the federal government to act. Get active locally and demand that schools pay attention to health.

Medical schools, unfortunately, aren't much better.

Aurora, Colorado: What exactly would you allow any of us to have in our refrigerators if you could control all of us the way you want to?

Abigail Trafford: This is a dream question! But I'd also add: what would you have us consume that we would WANT to drink and eat. There's got to be some joy in this, too!

Michael Jacobson: None of us can or would dictate what people have in their refrigerators. But, dictating aside, I'd certainly recommend that people, especially parents with kids at home, keep junk to a minimum. So, stock plenty of fruits, vegetables, whole-grain bread, fat-free milk, whole-grain cereals, etc. More and more processed healthful foods are available both at supermarkets and health-food stores.

But, if anyone is controlling the public's diet, it is companies that spend billions of dollars a year (collectively) on advertising and promotions to get us to eat their products. Unfortunately, a high percentage of those products are loaded with calories, fat, sugar, and salt -- just the things that we should be cutting back on. I only wish that health agencies had a small fraction of that money to promote better nutrition.

Rockville, MD: I'm sure my son, now 18 and a college freshman "would" purchase juice and water if it were offered in the school vending machines. (I solved the soda problem at home by buying him the flavors and brands of 100% juices that he prefers.) Have any schools tested selling juice and water? I suspect it would sell better than you think.

Michael Jacobson: As the Post article said, soft-drink companies refuse to divulge the percentages of soda/juice/water/fruit drink that are bought in schools. But I suspect that soda pop comprises 90% of sales, which, of course, is what the industry wants, because soda is a lot more profitable than juice.

Parents who want to wage a campaign against soda in schools should contact the Center for Commercial-Free Public Education, unplug@igc.org (Oakland, California)

Baltimore, Maryland: Why do you use the word addictive for caffeine when the physiologic effects are clearly different in the brain from true addictive drugs like heroin and cocaine and there is not a tolerance that develops with caffeine that then leads to increasing consumption or aberrant seeking behavior.

Michael Jacobson: Caffeine is considered addictive because consumers experience withdrawal symptoms if they stop drinking it. Many people experience severe headaches, lethargy, etc.

Decatur, GA: Couldn't the obesity increase in children be just as well linked to the cutting of physical education programs in schools? I rather see PE back in schools than to demonize sodas.

Abigail Trafford: Interesting point. Life is one of balance. Where do you come out, Mr. Jacobson?

Michael Jacobson: There's enough room to be concerned about both ends of the obesity equation: too many calories, too little physical activity.

The physical activity aspect is extremely important, and it is unfortunate that many schools are cutting back.

In any case, though, exercising too little makes it all the more important to have a healthy diet and "spend" calories on more nutritious foods (but, yes, it's OK to occasionally drink soda or eat other junk food).

Springfield, Va.:

Hi, I'm a high school junior in Fairfax County. It was recently decided that to comply with state health and nutrition guidelines, most of the soda and snack vending machines would be removed from my school, and the rest would be turned off during school hours. These regulations seem a little restrictive. I understand that the state wants us to eat healthful food, but students will just get junk food from some place other than the vending machines. The removal seems to accomplish nothing. What is the point of such regulations and the enforcement of them?
Surely the soda and junk food are not harmful enough to be removed?

Michael Jacobson: Thanks for your thoughtful question. I think that you should be thankful that Fairfax County is one of the few counties that is blessed with a food service/nutrition director who really cares about students' health. Stopping the sale of soda pop is controversial, but she is really trying to help students (and, I hope, teachers) eat a more healthful diet. There's plenty of time after school and at home to eat junk.

Bethesda, Md.: Doesn't the food sold in all schools have to meet nuitritional guidelines, or does this only apply to elementary schools? I was appalled to take a tour of the middle school my son will attend next year and see that there are soda dispensers in the cafeteria line. Naturally, many kids will opt for soda when given the choice. What's the scoop?

Michael Jacobson: The federal government prohibits the sale of soda pop in the cafeteria during lunch (or breakfast) period. If your son's school is selling soda then, you should contact the school headquarters, me, or the U.S. Department of Agriculture (703-305-2664).

Aside from those rules, though, anything goes.

Washington, D.C.: What is the relation between teens consuming colas and being overweight?

Abigail Trafford: Health officials are very concerned about the rise in obesity among children and teenagers. In fact, diabetes is increasingly showing up in this age group. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are calling the problem of teenage overweight an "epidemic." But what is the role of soft drinks in this losing battle with the bulge?

Michael Jacobson: It is very difficult to correlate any particular food or nutrient with obesity. Most experts believe that it is the caloric content of the overall diet (plus the level of physical activity plus a person's genes) that determines weight.

However, there is research showing that the body doesn't adjust as well to calories obtained from beverages as those obtained from solid foods. Also, the National Cancer Institute and the Center for Science in the Public Interest have found interesting correlations, but not proof, between soda consumption and obesity.

This is the kind of issue in which we'll never get proof, and the soda industry will continue to trumpet "there is no proof that soda causes obesity." The first advice most diet counselors give to patients is to cut back on wasted, worthless calories such as soda pop, butter, candy, oils, etc.

Germantown, Md.: This is hardly a new issue. When I was in junior high school in 1979, health concerns were the reasons cited for removing fountain soda machines from the cafeteria line. No one argued that soda was healthy, but at the same time, the school served up such nutritional powerhouses as sour cream and onion potato chips, Nutty Buddies, and cream-filled cupcakes, to accompany typical meals of gravy-laden salisbury steak and chicken a la king. While it has been a while since I have been in school, I would be surprised to find the menu has changed a great deal. Why is soda the source of so much hand-wringing?

Michael Jacobson: You're right. Some schools offer Nutty Buddies, Twinkies, and other junk. And that's too bad, because such products discourage kids from eating healthful meals. But none of those products are backed by the massive advertising campaigns that back soft drinks, and soft drinks comprise such a great part of many kids' diets that anyone concerned about health needs to pay special attention to soda pop.

Abigail Trafford: Michael Jacobson, thank you very much. Lots of controversy here. Lots of interest. And thank you all for your questions. We'll Health Talk again next week.

Back to the top