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Breach Film Forum
Universal Pictures presents "Breach" -- the film inspired by the true story of the greatest security breach in U.S. History. "Breach" stars Academy-Award winner Chris Cooper as Robert Hanssen, the FBI agent convicted of selling secrets to the Soviet Union, and Ryan Phillippe as Eric O’NEILLl, the young FBI trainee who worked for Hanssen and aided in the Hanssen investigation.
On Feb. 13, writer/director Billy Ray, Chris Cooper, and Eric O’Neill will be in Washington, D.C. for a panel discussion on the story and film. Cliff Sloan, General Counsel of Washingtonpost.Newsweek Interactive and Publisher of Slate Magazine, will be the moderator.
After the panel discussion, we’ll post the audio replay and transcript on this page -- check back to see if your question was answered!
The transcript follows. Scroll down the page to download an audio file. Download may take several minutes.
SLOAN: Thank you. Hi, I’m Cliff Sloan from washingtonpost.com and Slate Magazine and I’m going to be moderating this terrific panel. Let me just introduce the panel. This is Billy Ray, the director of the movie. He also (applause) terrific movie. Billy previously was the director of Shattered Glass, another movie about the betrayal of an institution about Steven Glass, a writer for The New Republic who fabricated stories, also based in DC. Eric O’Neill, the inspiration for the movie, and now practicing law at DLA Piper in DC. And Chris Cooper, with that incredible performance, and of course, he’s one of our most renowned actors, who won a best supporting actor Oscar and Golden Globe for Adaptation, and his other movies, American Beauty, Capote, Syriana, The Bourne Identity and many more.
I’m going to ask some questions, we also gave readers of washingtonpost.com an opportunity to send in some questions. I’m going to ask questions from readers, that they sent in. And we’re also going to open it up to questions from the audience. So, we hope to have a very lively discussion. And, by the way, a transcript of the discussion will be posted on washingtonpost.com tomorrow.
Let me start with Eric. Eric, how accurate – is this true to what you experienced? Are there parts that are not? What’s your feeling about it?
ONEILLL: Well, it’s a movie. There are some things – there are things that were dramatized. There are things that were compressed. I like to say Ryan can do in a day what took me three weeks, so it’s pretty impressive there. There are some scenes that are – that heighten tension, so, no, it’s not completely accurate. But the story, the core of the story, the historical record of what happened in the case, and particularly the things that happened in my life, especially with my wife, are very accurate and true to life. So, yeah, it’ very, very close.
SLOAN: And let me just ask you about your decision to leave the Bureau and ultimately practice law. It’s kind of alluded to at the end. Do you want to comment on that?
O’NEILLL; Sure. I went through one of those twenty-something moments. I’m 33 now, so I’m not too far away from where I was then. I don’t want to make myself sound like a big grown up, but I (laughter) hit a period in my life where I had worked this job for five years, it was overwhelming my life, and I was also in law school at the same time, which isn’t portrayed in the film. But I was going to night school every night after work. Kate would actually pick me up and drive me to work. Kate, played by Laura Linney, not Laura Linney, Kate (laughter). And drive me to law school, and it was just so much at once. And I really had to decide where I wanted to go with the rest of my life. And this certainly seemed like a great time to move on to the next thing. And I also really wanted to focus on my marriage, and on the family that my wife and I at some point want to start.
So many factors went into that decision, it’s hard to give you a brief two minute answer.
SLOAN: And is the timing of the decision pretty much as shown in the movie? Or is that one of the things that was compressed?
O’NEILL: I was in the FBI for a little while afterwards. I took a little bit longer to deliberate that decision. But, yeah, it was pretty soon after I broke the case that I left the FBI.
SLOAN: Billy, let me ask you, how did you come to direct this movie?
RAY: Well, there was a script that existed before me, written by a team, Adam Mazer and William Rotko, and I was asked to come in and rewrite that script to direct.
SLOAN: And what was your reaction to it, and to the story, and where you immediately attracted to it? How did you feel about it?
RAY: I loved the world that it was set in. I didn’t think anybody had ever made a movie about the FBI that could explore process in the way that this movie could. But I took about three months to decide that I was going to tackle this, because when you decide you’re going to do a true life story, at least from my perspective, that means getting on a plane, meeting the people who actually lived it, doing the research a journalist would do. And I wanted to make sure that I – I just saw people that worked on the movie with me. Hello, Peggy. Oh, my God, I’m sorry.
And I wanted to make sure I was able to make that kind of commitment to it. Because when you jump into a story like this, it’s going to eat up a couple years of your life. And what ultimately swayed me was the idea of making a movie in which you have this guy who’s running around screaming about Patriotism and love and country, and violating that completely. And he’s locked in a room with this guy who never says a word about patriotism and yet is completely embodying that. The irony of that felt very, very rich to me.
SLOAN: Chris, how do you approach playing a guy like Hanson? How did you approach it?
COOPER: There’s a surprising amount written about him. There were – you said perhaps six, I read five of them. And then I also read a history of the CIA Cloak and Dagger, and from those five books there was somewhat of a repetition in the story. But there was always different insights to whoever these writers interviewed. You got a little bit different take on a character. I had – there was a pretty thorough study of him through his, I guess, I’d stay, more in depth starting in high school, in Chicago. So, there was a lot to draw from.
SLOAN: Did you feel like you understood him?
COOPER: No. (laughter).
SLOAN: Did you – and beyond the book, did you talk to Eric much about him?
COOPER: Oh, yeah. Eric was made available to Ryan Phillippe and me for – what? Five days?
O’NEILL: Yeah, five days.
COOPER: And I guess our ten, 12 hour days?
O’NEILL: Yeah, long days.
COOPER: So, I’m sure –
O’NEILL: Of course, it was a lot of fun.
COOPER: A lot of questions to ask him. And I think we went over the script, if not page by page, scenes, asking how Hanson might have behaved, or approached you. What buttons he pushed, or what head games and all. And not having any audio and only have 15 seconds of footing of his actual capture, the time of his capture, that’s all we had to go by. So there a time where I asked Eric to do his best impersonation of Hanson. (laughter).
O’NEILL: He had me – I had mentioned to him, you had probably seen in the film where Ryan and Chris are walking down the hallway, and Ryan keeps getting slammed in the wall, and he’s sir, sir, and he gets slammed into the water cooler. That’s something Hanson did. He had this thing where he would limp to the side, and push you into a wall constantly, and kind of chuckle after he did it. And Chris had me – Chris said, oh, well Ryan’s here. You be Hanson, Ryan, you be Eric, and walk down the hall and Eric push Ryan into the wall and show me how it goes. So those kind of things were a lot of fun for me. (laughter).
SLOAN: OK, I’m going to ask a few of the questions that came in from Washingtonpost.com readers. And Billy, let me ask you the first one. It’s from Seattle, Washington. And the question is how did you go about casting for the role of Robert Hanson? And what made you choose Chris Cooper?
RAY: Well, if you can get Chris Cooper you stop looking. (laughter). Seriously. Chris, for me, is the best actor that there is. And I don’t have enough confidence in myself as a director to go shoot a movie like this with a lesser actor. So, as we were sitting in the studio having our initial conversations about who might play this part, they would throw names at me, and I would say, I am not a good enough director to help that person play this part. Once we heard about Chris’s interest, that was just it for me.
And I just want to amplify something that Chris had said that speaks to this. The first time Chris ever saw the movie, it was in our cutting room at Universal. And actually he and Eric saw it for the first time together on a TV screen. And when the lights came up, my heart was pounding, because you want Chris to love the movie, and you want Eric to love the movie. Those are two biggies for me. And I looked at Chris, and Chris said to me, I had no idea he was such a dark character. And I thought, well, that’s why you’re the best actor there is. Because he never stood outside the character and judged the character. He just behaved. Evil people don’t walk around thinking, oh, I’m evil, let me twirl the end of my mustache. They just behave. They have needs and desires and objectives and flaws, and they just behave. And that’s what he did.
There was never a time in the preparation of the character, when he was working with Eric, or when he was working with me, where he was saying to me, how can I make this guy scarier? How can I make him more of a villain? He didn’t think of him as a villain. And that’s why he’s compelling to the very end, because he’s just a person. That on some level, if you can’t identify with him, you can at least understand what he’s doing. It was a total education, from start to finish, to be working with him.
SLOAN: OK, Chris, let me ask you this question. This is from a reader in New York. Did you to Bonnie Hanson, or any family members, while making this film?
COOPER: No. And I mean – Hanson’s certainly not available. And I think the family has been through enough. I don’t think they need to be re-reminded. That’ll happen soon enough.
SLOAN; And you haven’t heard from Hanson in connection with the movie or anything?
RAY: No, when I was doing my research I had access to everybody else. The FBI was great about that. They let me talk to anyone that I asked to speak to. The guy who had lunch with Hanson everyday for 20 years, was having lunch with me and teaching me about him. But I asked if I could speak to Hanson myself, and I was willing to fly to Florence, Colorado and sit down with him, but the FBI said no. I asked if I could submit written questions to him, the FBI said that was OK. So I wrote out a list of 15 questions, sent them to the FBI. The FBI passed 14 of them along to Hanson, and he declined to answer any of them. So I got no help.
SLOAN: OK.
RAY: I’m sorry?
Female in audience: What was the one they killed?
RAY: Oh, what was the one they killed? The question the FBI would not put through was if you ran the Bureau, how would it operate differently? (laughter).
O’NEILL: Which you might have gotten back a book.
Male in the audience: What did you say?
O’NEILL: I said he probably would have gotten back a book. (laughter).
SLOAN: Eric, let me ask you this, this is from a reader in Syosset, New York. Is the FBI telling us the truth in the Hanson case? It says somehow parts of this story seem made up for us gullible US citizens. When will we hear the real story on Hanson? And let me just ask you, do you think there are parts of the Hanson story that are not known at this point? Or do you think it’s pretty much all out there in the film?
O’NEILL: Well, there are aspects of the case that are classified. The movie paints the best picture of how we caught him of anything that is out there. Ironically, there are a number of books that get close, but don’t quite get there. And a Hollywood movie is the best historical record we have. If you want to read the best record of the Hanson case, go online, for free, and download the affidavit that was filed to arrest him. It’s probably one of the best affidavits ever filed in a court in an espionage case. And it’s a brilliant read, it’s like a Tom Clancy novel, and it’s all fact. That’s certainly one of the things that made me very comfortable about telling my story, because everything in there has been declassified.
In any espionage case, there are going to be things that we just can’t say, we being the FBI, or they. Simply because you need to protect secrets, and you need to protect how you go about cases. This is the fist case that I’m aware of that so much of it was declassified in order to arrest this guy, and really put the nails in his coffin. I think part of that is because Louis Free (sp?) knew he was going to have to retire after this, and he wanted to make sure there was no back door for this guy to sneak through.
SLOAN: Billy, let me ask you this. This is from a reader in Hume, Virginia. And they say, we lived for five years just a few blocks from the Hansons in Vienna, Virginia. We would often take the kids and the dog down the bottom of our street, over the footbridge and to the park. Have you used any of the actual locals in Vienna for the movie? And more general, because I think you shot a lot of it locally, and a lot went into your decision to do that. So, if you could talk a little bit about that.
RAY: Sure. As my location manager can tell you, we shot the Hanson arrest at the exact corner where Hanson was arrested. We shot his making of the last drop on the exact footbridge where he made that last drop. That walk that he takes, where you’re right on his back, that was the last walk he takes a free man. Happily, we happen to shoot it almost at the exact same time of year as his arrest. He was arrested on February 18, I believe we were shooting on February 12. And we shot it at the same time of day. Those are just things that were essential for me, and huge priorities for Peggy and everyone else who was trying to realize this movie.
When we showed up to shoot that corner, which is called Fairway Drive, we were shooting right out in front of the home of this woman, who’s name is Pinkey. And Pinkey had this sweatshirt on, this big, pink sweatshirt on, that said, Pinkey’s front lawn, where Hanson was arrested. And we all signed he sweatshirt, and she’d make us cookies, and it was very much a family affair.
Whenever you’re making a movie, there’s always horse trading. You have a set number of dollars you can spend. And if this is a priority, then you have to give up that. And the priority for me was we were shooting that arrest on that corner. No question about it. And it didn’t matter to me what I had to give up to do that. And it turns out I didn’t have to give up anything that I couldn’t live without.
SLOAN: And did you use any locals in the movie?
RAY: I did not use any locals in the movie, except that when we shot the arrest, two of the six guys that were actually in on the arrest, were standing behind me as we were shooting, so that they could teach my actors how to cuff him, how to move him from one vehicle to the other. How to take – how to check him for weapons. And they actually gave us the last line he said, which is, so this is how it goes? Because they were there when he said it.
But, in terms of using locals as extras, no.
SLOAN: Chris –
M: You did use local extras, because I was there.
RAY: Is that right? (laughter).
M: (inaudible).
RAY: I was referring to the arrest. But on Summer Parkway, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for your help with the movie. (laughter).
SLOAN: Chris, I’ve read that you’ve said that when you read the script, you immediately knew you wanted to play that role. Much more so than when you’ve reviewed other scripts and thought about other roles. Is that right, and if so why? What was it that drew you to it?
COOPER: Yeah, that’s right. Any film that I have committed to, I like to spend a lot of time with the script before I’ll commit. And I’ll read it four or five times before I’m – really make a decision. If I’m going to spend so much energy and time in a film, I want to make sure I want to do it. But, this took two read throughs. And fortunately, I believe I’m right, fortunately the people I work with, they got the script to me pretty early. And so I put my name in, that I would like to be considered. And then I think it was just a few weeks down the road, once the news of how good the script was got around the film community, there were some pretty big names knocking at Universal’s door, seeing if they could bounce me out. (laughter). But Billy stuck with me, and head of Universal supported me.
SLOAN: Eric, let me ask you this. Hanson, I guess, was a couple months from retirement. He also made it to retirement. If he hadn’t been caught, what do you think would have happened? Do you have thoughts about that, how things would have played out?
O’NEILL: I think he would have been – I think he still would be working in the private industry, making a lot more money. And maybe selling corporate secrets. But, he – the evidence we had going into the case, we could only use if we wanted to burn a major source. That’s not something you want to do. So that case had to be made. And it’s portrayed pretty well in the movie. There’s a line, we need to make our case here, and that’s true, that’s what we were trying to do.
Now, going in, when I went in, I thought this would take one to two years. We had no conception that this guy would go thermal within two months. We certainly didn’t think a drop was impending. So we were pretty fortunate that we got onto him pretty quickly. So I’m pretty happy, and I’m sure my wife is very happy, that it didn’t go more than two months.
SLOAN: Now you played a major role in the story coming out and initially, when the Hanson story broke, your role wasn’t known for a long time. And if you read some of the books, right afterwards, you’re not mentioned. Do you want to talk about that some?
O’NEILL: Well, when the Hanson case – when we broke the Hanson case, I was still an undercover operative, so I was highly classified, and what I did was highly classified. So they’re not going to stick me in the affidavit and give up that ways and means on how we do things. And I also was going to have to be a material witness, so they didn’t want to publicize that fact. And the books were rushed, and it missed that fact.
What happened is he plead guilty, finally, and I asked the FBI for permission. And actually asked them first, and he hadn’t plead guilty, and they said, no. And I said, oh, well, that’s it. Because I wanted to write my own book in the beginning. And once he plead guilty, and I would not have to take the witness stand, the FBI gave me permission, and therefore declassified my role in the case . Which is all I needed. I felt very confident that if I went with that, and the affidavit, that I was protecting myself from divulging classified information. And I drove the two original writers, particularly Bill Rotko, crazy saying, I can’t talk about that, I can’t talk about that. And then when Billy took the script and we went through the same exact process again, I just can’t tell you that. Let’s just create a scene. I’ll tell you if you’re maybe a little bit close, but this isn’t something I can talk about.
Then Billy started talking to the FBI, and they were telling him everything. (laughter). And I was like, great, they’re Chatty Kathy’s, I’ll – and this is how we did it. He would go talk to the FBI, and I’d get on the phone with him, or I’d sit down with him, and I’d say, Billy, tell me every word they said. Because everything they tell you is all in the public now, and I can now speak about it. So that’s how we handled that.
SLOAN: Great. Let me open it up for questions at this point. Yeah, you right there.
F: I was wondering, in the movie, they mention that once they actually have the evidence against them, once they actually nailed him on the drop, technically he is up for the death penalty. Yet, he sits alive in a prison. Is he not up for that – are they not pursing that? Are they just saying it’s life imprisonment, no possibility of parole?
SLOAN: Could everybody hear the question? Since they were trying to hang the death penalty on him, why is he still alive?
O’NEILL : Because the important – the less important thing was catching him. The more important thing was finding out what he had done, so we could fix it. Catching him, of course, was critical. And we had to catch him in the act, so we could put the pressure on him to tell us what he had ruined, and what he had corrupted. So, the way they went about that to get him to talk and to plead out, was to say, OK, we’ll take the death penalty off the table, and we’ll allow your family to keep your pension, because we really don’t want to punish them for your sins. Because everything he owned was ill gotten gains. And in return, you sit down with any analyst we want to put in front of you, including CIA people, FBI people, whoever, Interpol, and you just spill. And if at any time we find out that you’ve lied to us, or you’re withholding things, then the death penalty is back on the idea.
The idea being he caused so much damage to our government, and so much damage to the way the FBI conducts counter intelligence operations, and he burned so many sources we didn’t even know about. We had to find out how we protect those people who are in the field, and how we rework our counterintelligence arm of the FBI to do things that the Russians aren’t a step ahead of us. Or whoever the Russians sold the information to. So it was critical to know what he did, more than why he did it, or to really punish him.
SLOAN: Yes.
M: I have two questions for Eric. First of all, Ryan Phillippe seemed very cool in the movie. Where there any times when you feared for your life? Yes, first question. Where there any times you feared for your life? And secondly, did Robert Hanson ever become suspicious of your relationship with Kate?
O’NEILL: The second question’s easy, no. Kate stayed very much in the black, he never –
Q: (inaudible).
O’NEILL: Right, but we had a whole operational procedure to do that. We made sure that Hanson was in pocket somewhere else. And I left headquarters and walked a couple blocks down the road, and I made sure that he was no where near me. And then the car would come around, and I’d be picked up. So, no, Kate and those others that worked in the Washington field office, never were in the same presence as Hanson, ever.
The first question, I certainly felt that I was in danger for my life at certain points in the case. The one in particular that I think Ryan does an incredible job portraying is the palm pilot scene. When he’s sitting at that desk, I was sitting at that desk thinking, I got the wrong pocket. And he gets it so well that I’m dead look on his face. Hanson is in there, I can hear him unzipping the pockets. And I had to make a huge decision right there, either get up and run, and possibly blow the case, because if anything’s going to make him suspicious, it’s going to be that. Or sit there and take it. And I thought, well, there’s a chance he’ll come out in a rage and shoot me. But if he does, I kind of deserve it, because I’m an idiot. (laughter). But a sticky on the pocket, right? Novice mistake. But I was so excited that he had actually left it behind.
So, I just sat there and kind of rolled the dice. I wish I could have those odds in Vega. But I made it through.
SLOAN: Yes.
F: The five facts about your life, and one is not true. Did that really happen? And either way, was he really that good at doing things like that?
O’NEILL: That was a brilliant invention by Billy Ray. I had a lot of trouble describing for Billy particular ways that he would mess with my head. Maybe because he messed with my head. But, we used to – when I used to be in the SSG, and we’d do lie detection, we’d do a game called Liar’s Poker. And I think that’s sort of where that comes from. And Billy can tell you where that comes from. But he certainly was good at detecting lies. And he could stare right through you. And he was the kind of guy that you were lying to him constantly, but you really didn’t want to be, because there was always that shaky fear inside that he’s seeing right through me. He’s staring right at me, he’s holding it like ten heartbeats longer than you normally would. And it makes you feel like leave me alone, you’re creepy. (laughter).
So, there was a lot of that fear. But you never could let that fear break your confidence. You always had to tell yourself, especially in that kind of situation, I’m selling it, he’s buying it, and everything’s OK.
RAY: I’ll tell you, by the way, who is phenomenal at that game. Chris Cooper. (laughter). We would play in between takes. He’s unbeatable.
SLOAN: Yes.
F: One of the things that I loved about this film, is the clarity, and (inaudible) – sorry, I’ll repeat that. Something I loved about this film was how clear the thought process of each character was. Every time they reached a decision, as an audience member, I was able see them get to a tipping point, and then tip one way or another. I wondered, as film makers, could you talk a little bit about the decisions you’ve had to make, since you are making a film about real people. What thought process have you, yourselves had to go through to get this to a film?
RAY: Sure. One of the things you’re trying to do as a screenwriter is create dilemma for your characters. That’s how we find out who our characters actually are. Holly Hunter, at the end of Broadcast News, does she get on the plane with William Hurt, or does she not? Whatever she decides, she’s going to lose something that’s of value to her. That’s a great dilemma.
And your job, when you’re writing a movie like this is to put dilemmas in front of Eric, and in front of Hanson constantly, so that we have these gauges to see who they are when they’re under pressure. The same thing happens to you as a screenwriter, and as a director. And by that I mean, where they kill you is at the finish line. Where you are so close to getting your green light, that’s the moment someone will come to you and say something really ridiculous. Like, OK, we’re ready to go, but you have to do X. And then it’s a question, can you do X or can you not do X? And you will have difficult choices forced upon you at all times. It’s just part of the deal. And it’s actually very useful to you, when you’re making a movie, because you find out under pressure what you can live without and what you can not live without. You will be forced to make those kind of calls all the time.
I understand why bad movies are made. It’s a really tough system out there. And it’s fueled by sheer terror at all times. (laughter). And it plays on your terror as someone who wants to direct, or write for a living, because you’re very vulnerable. But there’s certain things that you just won’t give up. And you just dig in on those.
SLOAN: Let’s go up there. You?
M: Me?
SLOAN: Yes.
M: (inaudible) don’t worry about it. This is a question for director, Billy.
RAY: OK.
M: At the very end of the movie, in the elevator scene, I don’t know, we were talking about this right after it finished, I think that you sympathize with Hanson. Was that intentional? Was that – you hadn’t really painted him, or attempted to, at least, as a very sympathetic character, there definitely is that sort of feel to it.
RAY: Well, first of all, that’s my favorite scene in the movie. I’m very glad that it worked for you, assuming that it did. A couple of side notes about that. One is that was our personal record on that movie. We did 16 takes of Chris’s close up, which is outrageous for that movie, we didn’t have the time to do 16 takes of anything. But I wanted 16 different options. And Chris is the sort of actor where you can give him 16 different choices, and he’ll play all those colors. As a matter of fact, when we were done with that 16th, Ryan just started applauding, and the whole crew did as well, which just doesn’t happen in the middle of a shoot. But it was quite a moment, he was on fire as he generally is.
My feeling about that scene is originally the choice we made for Chris when we were cutting that scene, because literally I could have played it 15 different ways in the editing room, he had lots of different emotions he was playing that day. The movie is about Eric. The movie is about how – the experience of being stuck in a room with Robert Hanson forces Eric to reevaluate how he feels about his career, his marriage, and his religion. Those are tough questions to ask yourself in your 20’s, but he is forced to ask them, and he arcs on all three of those levels over the course of the film.
So, for me, that elevator was going to be the punch line to the religious arch of the story. Hanson says to him, pray for me, which of course, rings a huge bell because he’s been talking about religion so much during the course of the film. But by the end, Eric will. And that’s – if it’s for me, I’m not here. The point of that moment, therefore, is about Eric, not about Hanson. So we were going to modulate Hanson’s performance to make that Eric moment work as well as it could.
SLOAN: Chris, anything you want to add about that scene?
COOPER: No, Billy made many suggestions. Think about – present the line antagonistically toward Ryan. There were any number of ways Billy suggested to deliver the line. I think this suggestion, that we used, I think that was the suggestion of think that you’ll never see your wife and children again.
RAY: That as a good one. (laughter).
COOPER: So, we did –
RAY: But try that with a lousy actor, it’s just not going to fly.
SLOAN: Yeah, there. I think you have to call him now. (laughter).
M: I really liked the movie, and I would recommend my friends to see.
RAY: Thank you. And their friends, tool.
M: It was beautiful. But by the way, I felt that the only – while I felt the last scene was beautiful, it’s unnecessary, and it’s a little forced on the movie, because it’s hard to believe, unlike any other scene, that it’s really happened.
RAY: I’ve actually heard that comment before. We generally – I think about batting averages a lot, I’m a big baseball fan. And generally, for every 20 people that see the movie, one or two might think that that last scene is a little contrived. And I can live with that batting average, because I am just in love with the performance moment in the scene.
M: And one last comment, question. While there are many movies that are shot in DC, and DC is kind of in the background, in that movie it’s felt, at least for me, like the city is one of the characters. And I wonder, was it intentional? Because it was beautiful. That’s it.
RAY: Thank you. We shot 40 days in Toronto, we had ten days scheduled here in DC, we ended up using nine of them. We had a phenomenal location team that ended up putting us in the right places. And, as a matter of fact, that scene on the Potomac Parkway, where Ryan has to get out of the car, and talk Chris back in, that was scripted for a street in Georgetown. And my production designer, who’s name is Wynn Thomas, who’s a genius, hated the street. Didn’t think it was dramatic enough at all. And we sat around scratching our heads, and Peggy Pridemore, who is sitting right there, red sweater, thank you, said I have this idea, and drove us out to the Potomac Parkway. So we would have the Potomac over one shoulder, and Lincoln over the other. And we happen to catch a huge break. We shot it over a Saturday and Sunday, because we couldn’t have it any other day, and we just had this slate gray sky. And that just made the city a character in the scene. And it doesn’t hurt to have (inaudible) shooting it obviously.
ERIC: If I could just add to that, really quick, I – Billy asked me a few things, that I wanted out of the movie, in the beginning, when he started rewriting and before he started shooting. And one of the things I said, as someone from DC, I get, and I’m sure you all get, and I’m glad you asked that question, tired of seeing movies set in DC that have zero continuity. Guy runs down into the metro, and it’s the LA metro. (laughter). You look at this building that’s way to tall to ever have been in DC, and somebody runs into it.
So, I said I’d really love to get the feel of the city, and get things right. Especially the metro thing, and we shot in the metro. So Billy took it to heart, and it was one of the best parts of the movie, for me, where that really, truly gets to the heart of our city, and shows it in a way that Hollywood trying to save a buck by shooting in LA and pretending it’s DC.
There are only a couple of rules I won’t break making a movie. One of them is that. The other is I’ll never have a character in a movie I direct, dial 555. (laughter). Will not do it.
SLOAN: Yes, sir.
M: (inaudible).
RAY: Thank you.
M: And I just want to say, you almost got me fired. So I’m just glad everything went well.
RAY: How so?
M: I’m the building manager at the Area Rios Building, where we shot several scenes.
RAY: God bless the Area Rios Building. That was the scene where Eric walks out and finds out it really is about spying, and not about sex. And initially I wanted to shoot at the Navy Memorial, which is right across the street for the US Archive. And like all memorials in the City of DC, it has just endless rules about what kind of equipment you can bring there. And we weren’t allowed to bring any sound equipment there, so it would have been this sort of kabuki thing, which I thought wouldn’t be any good. (laughter). So we decided to take the Wilson Plaza, at the Arial Rios Building, and dress it as the Navy Memorial, and get the best of both. And it worked out great. That was the last night of our shoot. Thank you, sir.
SLOAN: Yes.
F: I have a question both for Eric and Chris. Towards the end you get the –
RAY: You’re on, yeah.
F: OK. Towards the end you get sort the sense that Hanson wants to be got, because he knows that the GPS is in his car, and he still does the drop. So I wanted to know, Eric, if you felt that he wanted to be caught, or if this was an interpretation that you, Chris, brought to the movie? Was it his arrogance that he thought he still wouldn’t be caught? Or was it here I am, faced with retirement, I want to go out in a blaze of glory, or nothing at all?
COOPER: Well, I would assume he was close to retirement and didn’t want to get caught. And I think there was a scene where he suggested rather than the – he suggested it was the Soviets who had bugged his car.
O’NEILL: Mhmm. But that could have been speaking in code to see if it was –
COOPER: Yes, absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
O’NEILL: I never felt that he wanted to get caught. I don’t think he wanted to abandoned his family in life, and spend the rest of his time in prison, or worse, Russia. He – I truly think he made that drop feeling he was going to get away with it. What I see in Chris’s performance there, and of course, I might not be right. And the nice thing about Chris’s performance is you can take so many things from it. But what I see is a man who is going to turn his back on 22 years of something, and he’s saying goodbye to him, because he loved doing this. And it is what got him high, it is what made him feel strong, it is what made him feel great. And he’s going to end it. It’s a huge ending in his life. And he’s going to leave the FBI, he’s going to leave everything that ever mattered to him, and go work for the private sector. And make his last drop for the Russians.
If you think about the guy lived this life for 22 years, it’s huge. So that’s what I see in that performance, and that’s what I really believe is going on in his head at that moment.
SLOAN: Yes?
M: Hi. I liked the acting in the film a lot, I saw you in (inaudible). You mentioned a little bit about the scene where you come out of the Metro, and this is the greatest spy our country’s ever had. And right there, outside of the Metro, in the script, you mentioned all of the secrets that he’s revealed. I felt that was really a contrived scene. I like the other ones.
RAY: Which scene?
M: Well, it’s a spy, it’s the greatest spy in our country’s history, apparently. And when the character thinks it’s a sex case, he comes out of the Metro, really public place, and right there he reveals, oh, he’s been a spy, he’s given up all this information.
RAY: You mean when Laura Linney tells him?
M: Yeah. I’ve not been an FBI agent myself. I was interviewed by the FBI once as a writer. And I just have a hard time believing – the movie had me completely until that scene.
RAY: Did we get you back?
M: Oh, shoot. I love the acting. But when he comes out of the Metro to reveal it’s the greatest spying moment, it just seemed really contrived at that point.
RAY: When she comes out of the Metro?
M: When she comes out of the Metro, and at that moment, they reveal everything. And I just – I don’t think spies, or at least FBI agents, reveal things coming out of the Metro.
____: As a writer you must understand that (inaudible). (laughter).
M: I loved it to that point, and then you just lost me.
O’NEILL: Well, in real life, Kate revealed things to me driving in a car, parked in front of GW law school, in a restaurant, and in a coffee shop. So, it’s not too contrived. You really need to find your office, especially when you’re on the street a lot, wherever you can. And it’s a pretty scene, and it’s better than a coffee shop.
M: I thought Kate coming out of the Metro was amazing, Billy.
RAY: (laughter). Thank you. But you worked on the movie. (laughter).
SLOAN: Maybe a couple more. Yes, there.
M: I just had a question for Eric. In thinking about possible regrets. And thinking about one week after the case was closed, what were you regretting? And now looking back, what are you regretting? What do you think are your regrets?
O’NEILL: That’s a tall order. I certainly regret leaving the FBI. I loved the family, I love the community, I love the culture. Thanks to these guys, I sometimes think I’m still there, because we’ve been working on this movie so long, it’s still in the forethought of my head. I haven’t had a chance to go through that separation anxiety yet. I’m sure it’s going to hit me, and then I’ll have to whatever.
But, I regret the lifestyle a little bit. It was fun, and it was always exciting, when it wasn’t. Which is a little bit of a double answer. But staring at a taillight for eight hours, waiting for some guy to get in his car and move could be boring. But that 15 minutes of adrenaline could be great.
But, I knew that staying in the FBI, that what I was going to want to do is stay up here, is stay in the high level cases, and stay undercover. And that meant doing dangerous things. And I really love my wife, and I wanted to spend times with my friends and family, and not always be undercover. And this person who goes to work, and presents this face that he has to, which is false, and then falls apart everywhere else. And that just wasn’t going to be for me anymore. But I do regret the leaving. That was a tough part.
SLOAN: Maybe one –
M: I just want to say thank you, by the way. (inaudible) But thanks for (laughter).
O’NEILL: Thank you so much.
RAY: We can also stick around, just on an informal level.
SLOAN: OK, that’d be great. Let’s take one last question. And then what Billy was saying is they’ll stay around and talk to people informally as well. So, last question, up there.
Q: This is for Eric. I was just wondering, in the beginning did you feel any affection for Hanson? Or did you find yourself respecting him in the very beginning before you found out all the stuff he was actually doing?
O’NEILL: Well, you got the second time. I respected him. And my wife is hiding here in the audience, so I can’t say anything like I liked him, because she certainly knew I thought he was a jerk. (laughter). I couldn’t tell her anything abut the case, or that I was working a case. But I could come home and say, my boss is such a jerk. I hate going to work. Those kind of things. So at least I could give her a little bit of why things were so stressful.
I respected his intellect, and I certainly respected the love that he portrayed for his family. The guy could spend an entire shift talking about one grandkid. You can’t make that up. So there’s a lot to respect there. But, on the other side, I reminded myself that this is a guy who’s betraying that grandkid, and his country, and his religion, and his wife, and everything else he possibly could. He’d betray me if he got a chance.
So, while I did respect him, I cannot say that I ever liked him.
SLOAN: Well, please join me in thanking the panel for this discussion. And for the terrific movie, thank you. Really appreciate it.
Click here to listen to the audio file from the Breach film forum.
