Frontline: The Plea
Ofra Bikel
Producer
Friday, June 18, 2004; 11:00 a.m. ET
It is the centerpiece of America's judicial process: the right to a trial by jury system that places a defendant's fate in the hands of a jury of one's peers. But it may surprise many to learn that nearly 95 percent of all cases resulting in felony convictions never reach a jury, but instead are settled through plea bargains, in which a defendant agrees to plead guilty in exchange for a reduced sentence. To overworked and understaffed defense lawyers, prosecutors, and jurists, plea bargains are the safety valve that keeps cases moving through our backlogged courts. Critics, however, contend that the push to resolve cases through plea bargains jeopardizes the constitutional rights of defendants, who may be pressured to admit their guilt whether they are guilty or not. Frontline explores the prevalence of plea bargains in the documentary, "The Plea."
Producer Ofra Bikel will be online Friday, June 18 at 11 a.m. ET, to discuss "The Plea."
Submit your questions and comments before or during the discussion.
"The Plea" airs Thursday, June 17 on PBS.
Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Bethel, CT:
My husband and I were incredibly moved
by this show. We want to help Erma Faye
Stewart and Regina Kelly. Is there
anything set up to help them financially?
There are addresses for them on the PBS
website. Should we send them money
directly? How best can we help?
Ofra Bikel: Yes, money at this point would be very helpful to them and you are right that the contact information is on the website.
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Harrisburg, Pa.:
I am glad you are bringing plea bargaining to television. Most of the public learns primarily about the court trials on television, and most of us who serve jury duty again see only the trials. Most people don't realize the bulk of court cases are handled by plea bargaining. What has been the public reaction you've seen when they learn about the plea bargaining system? Do they accept it as the reality of what is be done with current limitations,or are they then prepared to seek to change to why justice is provided?
Ofra Bikel: It is difficult to gauge the general public's reaction and difficult to dislodge the idea that we have the best system in the world -- innocent before proven guilty, right to trial -- so people don't want to know that the system is broken. However every lawyer and whoever deals with the law knows that.
When people see the show they are horrified and just like you they do not know what to do.
The answer to your question is that yes, unfortunately they do.
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Annandale, Va.:
What is the status of the ACLU lawsuit against Hearne's DA and Police Department? Are there any possible remedies in the law for the folks who took a plea? Can they be reversed because of the negligence of their attorneys?
Ofra Bikel: The ACLU is suing but they are suing for people for those who did not take the plea.
It is very difficult if at all to reverse a plea of guilty -- especially for people who do not have money at all.
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Maryland:
Is there a mechanism for helping Erma Stewart with the expenses that she is burdened with?
Ofra Bikel: The only mechanism at this point is to help her by sending her money so that she can at least rent an apartment.
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Alexandria, Va.:
Thank you for the program. I knew we had
systemic problems in our judicial system, but now
I feel an immediate sense of urgency. What can
ordinary citizens like me do to help find solutions
to the problem? How can we encourage
prosecutors, police and judges to seek truth
instead of "wins."
Thank you.
Ofra Bikel: I don't really have a great answer except to write to your Congressman or to your District Attorney -- it's very hard to move the system.
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Washington, DC:
Two brief comments. First, this is another stupendous documentary by Ofra Bikel! Thank you for helping to show America the way in which the criminal justice system actually operates. Second, as great as the program was, it focused solely on how plea bargaining can railroad the innocent into jail cells. An equally long documentary could have been done on another dimension of the problem. That is, plea bargaining often results in vicious criminals receiving mindboggling leniency because of expediency. Rapists get off with disorderly conduct, etc
Ofra Bikel: Thank you for watching!
You are right that an equal documentary could be done on the other side. Plea bargains take the place of justice so it could go either way. But the fact that criminals are punished are well known. innocent people are punished is less known.
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Washington, DC:
How did you find the people profiled in your
story? I was very moved by their stories and
wondered how many other worthy stories you
couldn't cover.
Ofra Bikel: I found them by research and not even very hard research. Unfortunately, they were not hard to find. There are many others and so many that I couldn't use because of the constraints of television.
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Hilton Head Island, SC:
Thank you for your prgram "The Plea". It again brings to light the cruel reality of the legal system. I am particularly angered to see those most vulnerable placed at the greatest risk by an imperfect system. To see that system turn its back when the evidence is so striking that individuals did not commit crimes that they were coerced into admitting to, defies logic.
I am particularly saddened to see the treatment of Erma Faye Stewart who was not given any chance in a system she had little chance of understanding. Can you advise us as to whether it would be appropriate to send some financial assistance to her directly and if so, how we could do so anonymously? Would her church be of assitance in this matter?
Thank you again for the program.
Ofra Bikel: It's quite appropriate and she absolutely does not have any money. You can help her anonymously if you'd like as well.
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Chicopee, Mass.:
What happened to Billy Ronald Kelly and Did Kelly Jarrett have an alibi for where she was when the muder took place? Did Billy Kelly ever name who was in the car?
Ofra Bikel: Billy Ronald Kelly is last known to be in prison. The police talked to Kelly Jarrett three years later after the murder and so I don't know if she did have an alibi. Billy Kelly refused to name the person in the car.
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Ossining, N.Y.:
It would be helpful to know, as Prof. Langbein implies, whether other countries do it better. Is there any chance that less adversarial, more truth oriented trial systems, will be the subject of a future documentary?
Ofra Bikel: All the law experts think that other countries are doing better in one way or another.
As far as adversarial it is a big problem but I don't think people understand how difficult and unjust the system can be.
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Huntington, NY:
The most outrageous injustice presented in your program was the case of Erma Faye Stewart. Now that it's known to a larger audience, do you anticipate that any action will be taken to assist Ms. Stewart and her family, either legally or financially?
Ofra Bikel: I hope so, but it basically depends on people, like viewers like you. I don't know what action would be taken unless people write and send money.
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Potomac, Md.:
Your documentary fails the "so what" criterion. If these people are truly innocent, they would pay what they need to pay for a lawyer to get them off. Truly innocent people don't get brought up on charges. If they're not guilty of this then I'm sure they have been guilty of something else or would be guilty of something in the future to require the same sentence. You need to look at the quality of the person before you think the plea somehow violates their supposed rights.
Ofra Bikel: Some people have very little money and are poor. And you saw in the program and what happens to the court appointed lawyers and how incredibly busy they are. They only half an hour to listen to each case so, most people, even if they truly innocent, are told to say they are guilty because it's easier.
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Burbank, CA:
I want to know the after effects of a guilty plea. How do these people find jobs, or don't, how do they survive afterwords. I'd like to know if the people who are unable to pay their probation fees find themselves in a fugitive-type situation?
Ofra Bikel: They survive with difficulty. They have a hard time finding jobs because of their conviction. And there are very few happy ending stories.
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Washington DC:
What is the "pressure" that you assert might cause a defendant to plead guilty when he's not? It seems to me that the pressure is, "if you don't plead, we'll go to trial." If one truly believes that the right to a trial is the centerpiece of a defendant's rights, though, then the possibility of going to trial is not undue pressure but rather a safety valve.
I suppose one might say, the pressure comes from a threat to charge the defendant with more serious offenses if he refuses the plea. Again, though, if one truly belieives in the value of the right to trial, then one has to trust the jury to separate spurious charges from real ones. If the jury can't be trusted to do that, then why should a trial be any better than a plea?
Ofra Bikel: The problem with the plea bargain is that the threat of the state is that if the trial goes to jury, the defendant will get a much higher sentence if the jury decides that he/she's guilty. The jury is the system and you are entitled to a jury Constitutionally and everything is out in the open. But in a plea, nothing is out in the open like a closed box.
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Providence, RI:
Who can we write/call/e-mail to show our support for the release of Charles Gampero? After watching your program and reading the case transcripts I feel that something needs to be done to rectify this situation. Would a letter writing campaign have any influence on the Parole Board's decision?
Ofra Bikel: You should try to contact his lawyer Bruce Barket (and you can find him on the Frontline website) and more importantly, the parole board in New York. He is up for parole in October.
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Sapulpa, Oklahoma:
Please do more stories like this one. After seeing our judicial system up close and personal I now know that, in my opinion, our prisons are filled with, possibly more than 50% of innocent people.
The people who profess to protect us are actually driven by their own agendas. They want a conviction and must "win at all cost" to keep the federal money pouring in to support their causes like "child abuse".
People can say what they want about "a jury of your peers", but they, the jury, will never know how our horribly tainted judicial system actually works, therefore, the people chosen to sit on a jury think like me and most of our society (until we have seen the other side of the system)- they think that if they were arrested and charged with a crime they have to be guilty. NOT SO! The police must "make" a case. And that isn't that hard to do.
Please, please do more shows on this. There are so many innocent people who are wasting their lives sitting out wrongful convictions.
The saddest part is that if you are innocent and you fight the charges you end up getting the maximum sentence a jury/judge can throw at you, just because you fought the charges.
Ofra Bikel: Thank you so much for your comment. I can only hope you are wrong that there are not 50% but even if there are 2%, that's 2% too many! And you are right that it is a very sad state of affairs when you are punished because you are trying to fight the charges.
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Monroe, Conn.:
Dear Ms. Bikel:
You have shown that when a person is innocent of all charges against them, and they do a plea bargin, or end up on death row, the prosecutor refuses to admit they are wrong even when DNA evidence is found, or testimony is recanted. The system is so prejudiced against the minorites and poor in this country. What do you believe the public can do to change the legal system?
Thank you,
Diane
Ofra Bikel: The only thing that can change the system is the public (by writing, speaking, the media) ... that is the meaning of democracy. Unless you are thrown into the system, you don't realize how bad it is. The media does very little about it as well, the ones you see are only success stories.
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Petoskey Michigan:
I am a criminal defense lawyer. I am a trial lawyer who has a reputation for taking cases to trial. The piece on the plea is excellent as it acurately depicts the dilemma clients face. Since the weakest cases (Some of which are indeed innocent) get the best offers for plea deals. Every real defense lawyer can relate. I admit that I have allowed innocent clients to enter a plea to avoid consequences of trial. It makes you sick and bitter toward the system but sometimes a client can not justify the risk. Most people who have not encountered the judicial system niavely believe that innocent people do not get to trial as our police and prosecutors would not make mistakes but it happens at an alarming rate. Read 'Actual Innocence' by Barry Sheck who discusses how innocent people get convicted.
The plea deal system works with guilty clients for the smooth administration of justice but it fails the innocents the system is designed to protect because it is based upon a faulty premise--that an innocent person will not get wrongfully convicted.
I can realte to all four of your example cited and could provide many additional stories as can any criminal defense lawyer.
Daniel
Thank you for discussing this issue
Ofra Bikel: Thank you so much for your letter and your comments.
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Cleveland, OH:
Ms. Bikel, Thank you for bringing these injustices to light.
I have two friends, Bob Gondor & Randy Resh that have been falsely convicted of murder.
Bob Gondor was given a choice: a plea bargain. Write down three words, "I was there" and have the sentence reduced to 6 mos. He refused and was given a sentence 21 to 50 yrs.
They have been in prison for the past 14 yrs. Two years ago their convictions were vacated & they were ordered new trials. We are now waiting on the appellate court to affirm this.
My question to you is how do we keep these cases in the media so that this doesn't keep happening? Unless it happens to you or someone you know, no one believes that there are corrupt prosecutors and investigators in their community.
Ofra Bikel: I believe your story is unfortunate. What you told me is another example of the injustice that can come regarding a plea bargain. And unfortunately there are more like yours.
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Germantown, MD:
Distrurbing but great programming - the essence of frontline. Two questions:
1. Are there people that are championing not just for the release of the innocent from jail, which clearly should be a priority, but also for fundamental changes to the judicial system to make it fairer. Is it even feasible under a Republican dominated congress and administration?
2. Have you considered doing a story on the inverse problem: where someone is clearly guilty but the jury either acquitted the person or the person did a trivial amount of time in jail because of clever lawyers. The O.J. Simpson case may be a canonical example of this but there may be others.
But overall, thanks for producing fine documentaries for frontline.
Ofra Bikel: All the experts in the show and many more are fighting for a better system. It's not just a Republican administration, it's also 9/11 that makes it more difficult.
For your second question, I have thought about it many times but haven't done it yet.
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Tallahassee, FL:
You can't help but want to reach out and help the people profiled in the Frontline report, and indeed this is possible thanks to contact information posted on Frontline's Web site.
This is great for helping these particular individuals, but is there an institution that you can recommend for support that helps the entire class of people who find themselves in these plea situations?
Ofra Bikel: There are many institutions and groups. I don't have any specific to mention. However, you can find them on the web but these groups are scattered -- many on death penalty, mandatory minimum, wrongful convictions, etc.
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Boston, MA:
While watching your excellent documentary, I was struck by similarities in the film "Capturing the Friedman's." In the latter, Jesse Friedman (a young man about 17) was accused of molesting a series of children, with the charges occurring years after the supposed events. His father was also charged as the primary culprit.
Jesse took a plea, apparently on the advice of his atty. The case had lots of complications, but it sounds so similar to the situations in the film.
Did you have any contact with the people who made "Capturing the Friedman's"?
Ofra Bikel: Yes I do have contact with them. They are very bothered by the whole notion of guilty pleas.
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Germantown MD:
I forgot to ask earlier. Is there legal action that can be taken against overzealous prosecutors and judges especially if they are proven wrong later by DNA evidence?
Ofra Bikel: Unfortunately, the state is immune. You have to prove misconduct or malice, not just say it, otherwise there really is nothing you can do.
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Arlington, VA:
I was really troubled by the judge and his lack of remorse in the NY case. Did you get any indication off camera that he felt bad about this situation? Also, what about the defense attorney who didn't even remember his client?
Ofra Bikel: I don't think the judge was bothered at all and he said he did exactly what judges are supposed to do.
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Maynard, MA:
Is the justice system paying attention to all this? Do they realize that mistakes are made or perhaps they are not willing to admit it and to change.
Ofra Bikel: Unfortunately, I don't think so. I think everyone is entrenched in their position.
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Washington, D.C.:
How much does racism play a role in this problem? I'm black, and have several of my friends were told to take a plea, even though they were innocent. One of their lawyer's said that being black was already one strike against them when they are in front of a jury.
Ofra Bikel: I definitely believe that racism plays a big role in the problem. If you are black and poor, you have more of a chance in ending up in prison even though you may be innocent. In Hearne, the ACLU is suing the state on the grounds of discrimination because all the people they falsely arrested were all black. One would be blind to say that racism does not factor in the problem.
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Cleveland, OH:
I know you must get inundated with requests to help innocent people who are serving time for crimes they didn't commit.
How do you determine which cases you will look into?
Ofra Bikel: I get a lot and they break my heart. And many times there is nothing I can do about it.
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Arlington, Va.:
Why does Jarrett's case have anything to do with your thesis? She didn't plea bargain. She went to trial, and the jury didn't believe her. You seem to be arguing that plea bargains are bad because they deprive defendants of the right to trial by jury, but then when the trial goes against the defendant, you say that's unjust too.
Ofra Bikel: Her sentence was much stiffer than it should have been. She's a cautionery tale. She is one example where if the state says if you don't want to take a plea, then we'll give you life. And they do that to make sure that other people do not go to trial. The justice system people to plea because they don't have money to try everbody.
The punishment was draconian and they only would reduce it if she pleas. Kelly Jarrett was the one who wanted to fight it and said that she believed in the system but it worked against her. Everytime they offer a plea to get her out of prison, she still does not want to say that she murdered someone when she didn't.
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Arlington, VA:
Your were way to easy on Potomac, MD when he/she said
"Truly innocent people don't get brought up on charges. If they're not guilty of this then I'm sure they have been guilty of something else or would be guilty of something in the future to require the same sentence."
What alternate universe this person living in? Innocent people are never brought up on charges? If that's the case, then I guess there's no point in holding trials. And then he/she goes on to say that even if they are innocent, they must have been guilty in the past, so punishing them is OK.
Ofra Bikel: You're right. I was far too easy and I was just stunned because the comment was far too out of my universe too.
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New York, NY:
Ofra,
A big part of the problem is how overburdened the criminal justice system is--from the police to the courts, the sheer number of cases is overwhelming. And consequently, officers of the court simply do not have the time to investigate and deliberate with care. That's what happened to Charlie Jr. The cops wanted to clear the case and so did the court.
Do you agree?
Ofra Bikel: I do agree that is what happened.
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Alexandria, Va.:
The tone of many of these comments and your approval of them suggests that you don't trust juries either. Is that accurate?
Ofra Bikel: It's not that I don't trust the jury system, I do trust the jury system.
I just question how efficient the adversarial system is and that it is so adversarial and cut throat and the jury's verdict is reflective of that. There are so many times that we see jurors on television commenting that "if they only knew" this or that, that they would have voted differently.
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Salem, Oregon:
Great show! Frustrating chat ...
So many people asking what they can do .... What they can do is stop voting for politicians who run on a "law and order" platform. All of those politicians know that once a person is accuse, whether he or she pleads or goes to trial, the accused runs a high risk of a wrongful conviction; and many have the attitude that the conviction of innocent people is "acceptable collateral damage." The issue is: do you find the conviction of innocents an acceptable price to pay?
Ofra Bikel: You are right. Voting law and order platforms encourages the system to stay as it is and get even more harsher.
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Washington, DC:
Is it fair to say that you went into this project prepared to accept the defendants' statements at face value? You didn't do any independent investigation of their claims of innocence, did you?
Ofra Bikel: I actually did, I did quite a bit. I get hundreds of letters of innocence. I don't take any case at face value and I do a lot of research. Also, if you take for instance the Campero case, you would have known about really what happened if it did go to trial and whether or not he was innocent. Part of the problem of being forced to take a plea is that you are making sure that others would never know what happened.
In this show, my main point was not whether or not these people were innocent but on cases where you never know becuase of plea bargains. According to an expert, plea bargains are like putting a lid on a box. You would never know if they were innocent or not and never will because there are no trials and the police never had to tell their own theory. One of the plea is that the police get sloppy and 95% of the time, they never get questioned or know what theory of crime they have.
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Ofra Bikel:
Thank you so much for watching and caring. I do a lot about justice and wonder who cares but find many who do. Your comments give me great encouragement to keep doing what I'm doing!
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