Central Intelligence Agency
Admiral Stansfield Turner
Former Director of the CIA
Wednesday, August 11, 2004; 11:00 a.m. ET
President Bush nominated Republican congressman, Rep. Porter J. Goss of Florida, to head the Central Intelligence Agency. Goss has been a leading contender for the job since the resignation of George J. Tenet in July.
Admiral Stansfield Turner, former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, was online to discuss the decision and the agency.
The transcript follows.
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over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Adm. Stansfield Turner: This is Stansfield Turner. Let me lay out my basic thoughts on the nomination of Porter Goss to be Diecdtor of Central Intelligence:
1. This is an irresponsile lact on the part of the President because it is motivated by partisan politcal, electoral purposes. We cannot afford to play partisan poliotics with our intelligence apparatus.
2. Porter Goss has many qualifactions for being DCI. n He has one overriding disqualification. That is that he is a very partisan, political person. We must keep politics and intelligence enirely separate.
3. This administration has already jeopardized the public's view of the credibility of our intelligence by its misues of intelligence on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. We cannot afford to make the public even more skeptical of the reliability of our intelligence by having a political figure as its head.
4. This is a terrible time to nominate anyone to be DCI. By gthe time Goss is confirfmed, if he is, it will be mid-September, six weeks before the election. No one at the CIA will take the new director seriously until after the election, but John McLaughlin will no longer e in charge. No one will. If Kerry is elected he almost certainly would replace Goss, confusing the situation even more. We should leave McLaughlin there until after the election.
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Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.:
Greetings Admiral from a very proud Navy town Jacksonville, Fla. My question sir is since you left the agency you have been used by the Democratic Party to criticize almost all the Republican Administrations since you left your position at the CIA. Now you are saying rather incredibly that politics should be kept out of the CIA . My question to you is why haven't you kept your politics out of your criticism of the agency and have limited to the Republican Administration. By the way I voted and gave money to Carter and was elated when you were nominated and served as CIA director I am just confused by your very open partisanship at this time. Thank You..
Adm. Stansfield Turner: During my naval career and my time as DCI I remained as apolitical as I possibly could. Once I left the government, I felt free to partilcipate in partisan politics and have to a limited extent. Initially my anti-Republican remarks on intelligence were simply self-defense of scurrilous aspersions cast on my by the Reagan administration whose abuse of the inetlligence system was gross.
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Reading, Pa.:
Why did you feel so strongly about Bush's nomination of Goss for CIA director?
Adm. Stansfield Turner: Because the President was motivated to nominate Goss in order to improve his electoral chances, not to improve our intelligence. Please note that yesterday he announced the nomination opf Goss, a Floridian, at the White House and imeediately flew to Florida to campaign. Shame! Intelligence and politics do not mix.
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Hollis, Maine:
What is the reputation among CIA emploees of Mr. Goss?
Adm. Stansfield Turner: I really do not know - I am not in contact with any active CIA people - I have been out of the CIA for 23 years. I read in the press that many at Langley are supportive of Goss, but that his recent criticisms of the CIA have annoyed others.
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Milwaukee, Wis.:
Off the topic a bit, but the president's proposed "uber" intelligence director seems to me way off the mark. Wouldn't it make more sense to ensure that the Director of Central Intelligence is a career professional, appointed and congressionally approved, who serves for a staggered term and is as free as possible of political introspection? Perhaps the DCI needs fewer managerial duties within the agency and more emphasis on the analytical and coordination functions, but that's achievable, isn't it?
Adm. Stansfield Turner: 1. I believe CIA professionals can make good DCIs but I would oppose limiting that post to intelligence professionals. Right now, for instance, we need someone with a background of managerial esxperience, more than most bureaucrats have. Beyond that, and in answer to your suggestion of a staggered term, you want someone in the job who harmonizes well wilth the president. After all, one of the DCI's responsibilities is as intelligence advisor to the president. And, the president is the intelligence community's most important customer. Don't saddle a president with a DCI he does not like - the DCI will become a eunuch.
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Washington, D.C.:
Adm Turner,
It is obvious to me the White House is trying to pick a fight, just as they picked a fight in 2002 (i.e. Homeland Security). Do you think Democrats would be better served by just accepting Goss? If Kerry wins, he will be replaced. If Bush wins, he would be his choice anyway. What would be the upside to holding contenious hearings, that would then be used in misleading ads during the campaign, similar to those directed at Max Cleland in 2002?
Thank you for your service sir.
Adm. Stansfield Turner: Thank you for your nice words about my service.
You make a very good point on the inutility of the Democrats opposing Goss' nomination. Perhaps they should just make it clear that the president is inappropriately playing politics with the appointment, but not try to stop it.
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Washington, D.C.:
Goss is not the first Congressman to serve as DCI, the other example being George H.W. Bush. Was the appointment of George H. W. Bush criticized at the time as partisan politics? How did he work out in practice as DCI? Did his tenure suffer because of his political background?
Adm. Stansfield Turner: George H. W. Bush was my predecessor as DCI. I do not believe he acted in a partisan way as DCI. The problem, however, with partisan political figures as DCI is not just that they may act in a partisan way, but that public will lose confidence in our intelligence, fearing it is biased.
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Washington, D.C.:
Sir, many books on the CIA blame you for destroying the CIA on Ocotber 1977 when you almost shut down the Clandestine Division and the officers who spoke the foreign languages in favor of SIGINT. Any reply?
Adm. Stansfield Turner: Yes - I did not shut down the clandestine division. I did reduce its size by 825 positions. All of those positions reduced were in Langley, Va., none out in the field where human intelligence is collected. With less overhead and oversight, the operatives in the field could operate better.
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Columbia, Md.:
Admiral Turner,
Can you please explain further your position why you do not feel it is appropriate that the President nominate anyone for CIA Director at this time?
I respect your arguments regarding the timing to the election, but given the current situation in the world should an acting Director be in charge right now?
Thank you for your service to our country.
Adm. Stansfield Turner: Thank you for your remarks on my service.
Anyone installed as DCI in mid-September will be ineffective until after the November election. The professionals will simply stall him/her until they know if he/she will be around past the election. At the same time, John McLaughlin will be less effective, so lwe lose on all fronts.
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Arlington, Va.:
Admiral Turner,
I respect you very much, but how do you reconcile your criticism of the timing of Bush's appointment with the Democrats' charges that he is moving too slowly to enact the 9/11 panel's recommendations?
Adm. Stansfield Turner: The two are quilte separate items. There are real disadvantages to appointing a DCI in September with an election coming up in November. He/she will not have any authoity until after the election and the Acting Director will have less authority. And, this during what looks lto be a very tese period with respect to terrorism.
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Harrisburg, Pa.:
What would be the advantages and the difficulties of having one person in charge of all our intelligence operations?
Adm. Stansfield Turner: The military have a great need for intelligence, including tactical intelligence which should not be run by a central, national authority, e.g. scouts on the right flank.
We also need to ensure that differing interpretations of the intelligence data are free to percolate upward.
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Albany, N.Y.:
If you were advising President Bush on how to respond to the 9/11 Commission's recommendations, what would you tell him his priorities should be? There is a lot of worrying in the report and by other knowledgeable insiders -- Richard Clarke and Robert Baer among others -- that CIA's internal culture around both intelligence analysis and operations has become dysfunctional. Can changing the boxes on the org chart help much with this?
Adm. Stansfield Turner: Changing the boxes won't solve all the problems, but it will help. lIf Bush really wants to respond to the 9-11 Commission as he needs do is sign an executive order tomorrow:
1. Telling the DCI to focus on his Community responsibilities and turn the CIA over to his Deputy.
2. Giving the DCI authority over all budgets; over hiring/firing of the heads of NSA, NRO and NGA; over the dissemination of data within the community; and overe setting priorities for intelligence collection and analysis (but not over the results of the analysis.)
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Alexandria, Va.:
Admiral, what kind of person/what background do you think would be ideal for a new CIA director, given the situation we find ourselves in today?
Adm. Stansfield Turner: I would like to see a businesman with a lot of managerial experience in large, complex organizations.
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San Diego, Calif.:
I would think that the experience and background that Mr. Goss has will serve him well as DCI. Don't you think that he will be able to put partisanship aside for the greater good of national security, much the same way you did while in public service? Thank you for participating in this discussion.
Adm. Stansfield Turner: Thank you for your thanks, I'm enjoying these exchanges.
Yes, Porter Goss could put aside partisanship. I don't want to trust that he would. More importantly, I worry that the credibility of our intelligence in the eyes of the public will suffer because of suspiciaons from time-to-time that the intelligence is biased.
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Warren, Mich.:
Admiral,
When you were DCI, the cold war was still with us. The method for obtaining real world information was still very agent in the field oriented, why have we abandoned that tried and true method for technology and policy driven decisions.
Thank You
Adm. Stansfield Turner: I do not know that lwe have abandoned human intelligence. We certainly did not in my day. People expect a lot more from human intelligence than it can produce, however. We have to keep trying with human intelligence, though, because you never know when there will be a break though.
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Toronto, Canada:
In what ways do you see your president manipulating the intelligence agency to suit his and the Republicans interests?
Adm. Stansfield Turner: Te President's nomination of Rep. Goss was purely a play for votes in Florida - note that he flew to Florida to campaign a short while after nominating Goss.
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Maryland:
You have no idea what the people actively within the community think of the man, yet you readily criticize him? Shameful.
And do you not believe that intelligent people of capable of segregating their politics from their work? Thousands do it every day -- why not him?
Adm. Stansfield Turner: I have not criticized Porter Goss as a person or questioned his qualifications. There is no way, however, that the public will not suspect such a partisan person of being partisan in inelligence.
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New York, N.Y.:
Admiral Turner,
As a Middle East analyst, I've read books penned by
former CIA employees in both the Intelligence and
Operations directorates. This has lead me to the
conclusion that collections officers, though they may
be very good at doing their job, are usually not very
proficient at either analysis or policy formation.
Do you think that Rep. Goss's background as a
collection officer in Latin America, particularly at a
time before significant congressional oversight, is
necessarily an advantage toward guiding the Agency
in light of new challenges?
Adm. Stansfield Turner: I don't think Goss' experience in the CIA is a particularly big plus, but it is not a big disadvantage either. My successor, William Casey, had had a lot of experience in the OSS. This lproved to be a handicap, in my opinion, because it was both out of date and slanted to only one side of intelligence.
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Newark, Del.:
Mr. Turner,
Was Porter Goss an incompetant or ineffective agent when he worked for the CIA?
Adm. Stansfield Turner: I've no idea.
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Stavanger, Norway:
What about leadership/command experience? A Congressman only leads a small staff; the CIA director will have to lead a huge organization, with thousands of employees. Do you foresee a problem here?
Adm. Stansfield Turner: Yes, in general people with only congressional experience may not be good managers. Some have been, though.
My late wife, Eli Karin Tjelta was from Stavanger. I am going to Stavanger in about 10 days to see her family!
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Adm. Stansfield Turner: I have to stop as I have another commitment. Have most enjoyed your questions - wish I could tackle more.
Thanks, Stan Turner
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