PBS Innovation: Hi-Tech War
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth
US Marines and Series Producer
Wednesday, March 03, 2004; 1:00 p.m ET
"Hi-Tech War" is a step-by-step account of the technology used in the second war in Iraq, painting a vivid portrait of the front lines via the recollections and commentary of soldiers, military leaders and weapons engineers. From the opening strike to the seizing of Baghdad later on, the PBS Innovation program spotlights the challenges American troops faced and the devices and techniques used to overcome them. The program also explores the actions that did not work, putting it all in the greater context of combat in the Information Age.
US Marines Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and series producer Jared Lipworth, will be online Wednesday, March 3 at 1 p.m. ET to discuss the PBS Innovation special.
Submit your questions and comments before or during the discussion.
Staff Sgt. Cerillo is a 14-year U.S. Marine Corps veteran and has
has served in several operations in the Middle East, Europe, and the
Caribbean. A platoon sergeant in Iraq in support of Operation Iraqi
Freedom, he was one of twelve Marines involved in the April 13, 2003
rescue of the five P.O.W 's and two Warrant Officers who were shot down
in a pre-dawn attack. He is currently based at the Marine Corps Air
Ground Combat Center in Twentynine Palms, Calif.
Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: Jared: Hi everyone, thank you for joining us today for the followup chat to last night's Hi-Tech War program on Innovation. We hope you will send in your questions while we have the unique opportunity of having Staff Sergeant Cerillo with us.
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Baltimore, Md.:
Jared: What an eye-opening program. I came away feeling like war is no longer about nation vs.nation or even person vs. person. It's about machine vs. machine. Was that the "moral" of this episode?
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: Jared: There wasn't really a moral--this program was just designed to be a look at the technology that was used, and at the people who were using it. Whenever you take on a topic like war, you are dealing with a situation where human lives are at stake, so you need to be careful to keep the technology within the context of the events that are taking place.
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Washington D.C.:
How complete are contigency plans in case of catastrophic failures of a critical piece of technology (say several sattelites were inoperative). Are we able to effectively fight without many of these high tech tools?
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: Evryone has a compass, map of the areas, and of the country they are in, they are also taught Land Navigation, So that if all else fails they can use thier basic skills taught from Bootcamp and yearly training. SSgt C.
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Anonymous:
This is a two-part question for Jared. You were granted a tremendous amount of access to military facilities to make last night's program, which I know from my journalist days is difficult and unusual. How did you secure authorization for this project? And in the process, did the military require an embargo on any sensitive information?
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: Jared: As with all films dealing with Military technology, we needed to be careful not to reveal any details that might put troops in danger or reveal any top secret information. We work closely with our military contacts to ensure that we do not show anything sensitive, but other than that, they give us the access and we tell the story--they do not have any editoral control of the program.
As far as getting the access goes, our producer provided information about what kind of program we were trying to make to the various forces, and they were very helpful in giving us the access we needed.
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Charleson, S.C.:
How did you communicate with the UK to determine which targets to hit and more importantly how to avoid friendly fire attacks?
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: Every Unit has Callsigns, Callsigns are names given to Units for thier identity so that thier real names aren't compromised, For example "Ripper", "Rhino" and so on, This is used to ensure who is who and where thier current location is. This also applied to Allied Forces as well. They also had maps that were the same as ours to ensure that when we saw something to target, they saw it too i.e. a bridge or dam. SSgt C.
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Cornwall, N.Y.:
To Jared Lipworth:
It seems like technology evolves so quickly that every new development is exponentially ahead of the one it spun off from. This film covers a war that began a year ago. A lot can happen in that time. To your knowledge, are any of the technologies discussed in the film currently obsolete?
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: Jared: That's a difficult question to answer, but I would venture that none are obsolete quite yet. More likely, they are constantly being updated, and as lessons are learned about the capabilities and limitations of each new weapon or comminucations tool, changes are made and new ideas come up for the next generation.
What you speak of is a challenge we face in all the films from the Innovation series--films designed to present the latest technologies that are affecting our lives. We aim to present the cutting-edge advances that are happening now, and these advances, by their very nature, will constantly change and evolve. We also continue to follow all topics to see whether it makes sense to do a followup in future seasons. But in general, the very fact that these technologies are changing and advancing is why we have chosen them--they have and will continue to impact us as societies and as individuals.
More information and updates are also available on the Innovation web site, which is located at www.pbs.org/innovation.
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Oceanside, Calif.:
I wanted to say I was excited to see at least eight clip of footage that I shot while attached to 1st Marines during OIF.
SSgt Daniel Schrubb
Combat Camera Unit,
1st Marine Division
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: Jared: I'm glad you were able to see the show with all your footage front and center. Our producer, Phil Craig, did an excellent job sifting through massive amounts of material that he and his team compiled, and I'm glad he chose yours.
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Washington D.C.:
It was very amusing, and more than a little sad, when Al-Jazeera was universally condemned, over here, for showing images of the effects of cluster bombs on civilians in Basra and Hilla during the war. People here were so angry about that.
Why do you think America was so upset about Al-Jazeera showing graphic images of the war (rather than presenting it as a video game, and focusing on the personal bravery and suffering of US soldiers)? We certainly weren't hesitant to show graphic images of Saddam's violence against Iraqis...
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: Jared: I can't speak for the coverage of the war at the time, nor would I profess to know what national and international viewers liked and disliked about the US and the Al-Jazeera coverage. What I can say is that this program was designed to be a technological audit of the weapons that were used in the war. We were taking a careful look at what was used to see if we could shed light on what worked, what didn't and how the latest technology is impacting the way America will fight wars in the future.
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Fairfax, Va.:
Sgt. Cerillo,
Can you explain the technology that was used in the beginning of the war in Iraq such as the specific target bombing? I remember the technology was a breakthrough in precision and specifying targets in terms of reducing civilian deaths.
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: Our uint had what is called a Laser Range Finder (GVS-5) to find the target. This is how it works, you first find a target then press a button. A laser naked to the human eye shoots out to the target in question, i.e. a tank. It then bounces back with the distance to the taget. It is then relayed to the FAC (foward air controller) each unit has one, who then talks to the air support, planes and heilicopters who in turn keep communication with them to ensure none on the ground are hurt from the explosion from the possible target. SSgt C.
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Franklin, Tenn.:
I have just this weekend been put on alert to possibly deploy to Iraq later this year. I missed the show last night but wanted to know what kind of problems did you encounter with your communication equipment and how did you overcome these and continue the mission?
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: Keep plenty of Batteries, because most chargers were non-compatible with the outlets we needed in order to charge. If you should buy a battery charger ensure it is compatible with the item you are charging it from. i.e a field generator etc. SSgt C. P.S. also buy some and wakie talkies from the store Black or Green and have a plan to change the code should you come in contact with the enemy,or patrol longer than expected. remember they are not crypted. so any-one who finds them could find out where you are.
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Germany:
What technological improvements are being made to allow better identification of moving targets?
Are there technological developments that would allow prompt and better battle damage assessment, including collateral damage assessment?
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: We have what is called thermal panel markers used with thermal imaging that distinguishes friendly from enemies. There is really no technological development for battle damage assessment or collateral damage assessment. You can hit the target but you won't be able to gauge how much is destroyed until you actually see it from the ground. We send out scouts and check the extent of the damage.
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Palo Alto, Calif.:
Last night's show mentioned some technical problems faced by the high-tech battle system (TBMCS), including bandwidth limitations and also "information overload" on some recipients. What about the problems involved in getting data from systems developed by different branches of service (and different countries) to mesh with each other? Did gaps like those impact the actual system users in the Iraq war? To what degree did human users still have to put the picture together themselves?
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: We have a Combat Operation center with representatives from each branch of the military. They have a huge screen of the country and each of the representatives have their own computer to keep in contact with their base units. They get information from the ground to the command units and then to the higher headquarters. When you are faced with a systems overload, most of the time the units will continue the mission at hand but will not go forward until they establish communication with higher headquarters.
Yes, we did have communication gaps but that was left up to the commander's discretion to finish the mission at hand. For instance, at the rescue of the POWs we lost communication with higher headquarters so our batallion commander got the information that he could gather from the interrogation team and once he made the assessment that it was good, we went in and got the seven POWs out.
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Laredo, TX:
Hi, I'm a high school student and I'm working on a project about the history of warfare. I learned a lot from your program last night. How did you do your research and can you suggest any good sources for me? Thank you.
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: Jared: I'm glad you enjoyed the show. We spent a lot of time researching before we ever started filming, and did so mostly by speaking to many of the experts who are tied into the technology that was used in the war. Most of them are featured in the film, but we also researched articles that have been published about the technology. As far as good sources go, for a more general lok at the history of warefare you can actually start with our web site, where we have a feature about the major technological advances in warefare throughout history. The web site is at pbs.org/innovation. You might also want to download our Sparks of Innovation magazine from the web site. It lists additional resources for all our programs and includes a book list. Make sure to check out Sun Tzu's THE ART OF WAR. It's old, but good!!
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Lovettsville, Va.:
What would your team do differently if the Battlefield Command and Control Systems were monitored (that is: "hacked") by another nation-state and the data sent back to insurgents in Iraq? Were you ever trained to consider this possibility?
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: That actually happened but our contingents was that every 24 hours our encryption codes were changed. There was a time when Saddam Hussein was using cellphones of reporters (who had their own phones) to locate where units were encamped. So, the following day the division rallied up and all phones were collected and new encrypted phones were issued to reporters.
We are trained that if our communication is compromised that codes are changed and for every field operation we practice it.
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Sammamish, WA:
The program pointed out the limitation of the technology when encountering a disguised enemy. Will this always be an inherent limitation or do you forsee technology that will sniff out the enemy like guard dogs? For example, I assume weapons always offgas machine oil, cleaning fluid, accelerants, etc. Sniffing machines could sweep the road ahead of a column to prevent ambush.
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: Jared: There are all kinds of new sensors being developed, and many of them are already in the testing stage. Exceptional work is being done in minaturization and the creation of tiny spies that will allow forces to better monitor the battlefield, but it remains to be seen which of these will be the first to make their way into actual combat.
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Germany:
What is the best current technology (targeting pods, radar systems) to distinguish between military and civilian moving targets, e.g. military convoy vs. refugee column?
Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: There are unmanned planes that search known routes such as highways, unpaved dirt roads and things of those nature and zoom in to get a picture of vehicles in question. Most of us know that the enemy uses terrain that try to hide them. Usually the refugees and relief organizations take known routes that would not be taken by the enemy.
If the convoy is disguised or there is a question about a column, the units that are forward will find a position to get a closer observation. If they are engaged, then they will respond in kind.
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Staff Sgt. Chris Cerillo and Jared Lipworth: Jared: Thanks Sergeant Cerillo and thank you all for joining us today and for tuning in to the first group of Innovation programs. The next group begins on April 6th, and features Crash Site Secrets, which looks at Airplane Safety and how it takes major crashes to drive innovation in the airline industry; Miracle Cell on April 13th, which looks at the cutting-edge stem cell therapies that are being used to treat heart attacks, spinal cord injuries and more; Light Speed on April 27th, which tells the history of communications and the development of fiber optics; and Brain Fingerprinting on May 4th, which highlights a new kind of lie detection technology that is making its way into our criminal justice system.
Make sure to check local listings and join us on the web for more information and interactive features on all of the current topics.
Thanks again for taking part in today’s chat and we hope to see you back here for continued discussions following the next group of programs.
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