2004 Athens Olympics
Sally Jenkins
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 17, 2004; 11:00 a.m. ET
What happened during the first few days at the Athens Olympics? Local swimmer Michael Phelps' quest for record of eight gold medals fell short when Ian Thorpe took gold in the 200-meter freestyle. Phelps did win a gold in the 400 individual medley and top female U.S. swimmer, Natalie Coughlin, won the 100 backstroke. The U.S. men's basketball team had an embarassing loss to Puerto Rico but the women's team beat the Czech Republic. The men's gymnastics team won the silver medal and in the doubles tennis tournament, Venus Williams and Chanda Rubin lose to China in the first round.
The 2004 Olympic in Athens are underway. Who among the U.S. athletes have already won medals? What are the events that will be watched the most by Americans?
Post columnist Sally Jenkins is in Athens and will be online Tuesday, Aug. 17, at 11 a.m. ET to discuss the latest news about the Olympics.
Submit your questions and comments before or during the discussion.
Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Sally Jenkins: Hi all, just call me Sallyiapolis. I've gone Greek.
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Silver Spring, Md.:
Is there an outrage at the games over the actions of the Iranian Judo athlete in refusing to fight an Israeli? What are the athletes, coaches and officials saying about this? I can hardly think of a more despicable act at an Olympics. It would be very sad if there isn’t more outrage over this. Shouldn’t the IOC take a stand against the beliefs that fuel the terrorists and kick the entire Iranian delegations out of Olympic for violating the oath by encouraging racism and bigotry. This by far the most important story of the Olympics bigger than Phelps, the Dream team, doping and anything else. It goes to the fundamental meaning of the Modern games. washingtonpost.com:
Judoka Praised by Iranian Government (Post, Aug. 17)
Sally Jenkins: Hi. I agree with you: this is the most egregious violation of the Olympic ethic that I've ever seen, and it's my fifth Olympics. They should cut down the Iranian flags at every venue and Fed Ex them back to the Iranian governement. And they should revoke Iranian membership. Period. End of debate. There are no ifs ands or buts about this one.
however, the IOC is notoriously shy of controvery.
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Herndon, Va.:
Ms. Jenkins: to my inexpert eye, it looks like the Olympic events are hurting for spectators. The mens gymnastics finals seemed not to fill even fill half of the seats. How bad is it?
Sally Jenkins: It's actually not as bad as it looks on TV. Some events are consistently jammed, like swimming. Some are utterly bereft of spectators. You can get a ticket to just about anything. Most of the venues I've been to are half full to three quarters. Anything at the beach is also very popular -- because that's where the 5 million who live in Athens go at this time every summer. They leave town on beach vacations. If you go twenty miles down the road, the beaches are PACKED.
The question is whether Athenians will come back to town this week, as they traditionally do, or if they'll stay away and extend their vacations until the Olympics are over.
Yesterday there seemed to be more people around, so my suspicion is that they are trickling back in, and that the crowds will get bigger every day. Word has gotten around that traffic is light and tickets are available, so Greeks who had decided to stay away may change their minds and buy tickets at the last minute.
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Rockville, Md.:
Can yo clarify the rule about using a dolphin kick in the breast stroke? In the men's 100m Rowdy Gaines, the NBC analyst said that Kitajima had done an illegal kick but "gotten away with it." Last night in the women's 100m one of the Chinese swimmers was disqualified for it. before Hansen and Kitajima go at it again in the 200m I want to understand the rule. Also, what is the word on Kitajima? Did he get away with something illegal or did he swim a clean race?
Sally Jenkins: Well, according to the Japanese, he has used the kick consistently in other competitions, and has been told by officials that it IS legal.
I have a question about the American outrage. This is an accomplished and well known athlete who has swum against Americans many times. It seems to me that if American swimmers objected to it so seriously, they should have taken it up with officials before now. To do so in the wake of a loss at the Olympics seems graceless -- and disingenuous.
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Chincoteague Island, Va.:
I'm curious, with over half of the seats being unfilled at the olympics and many people who I know that normally watch this on tv are not watching it at all including me, what is that saying for the future of this multi-billion dollar event that happens every few years?
Sally Jenkins: That's a great question. the cities currently bidding to host the Olympics, London, paris, new york, madrid and moscow, should think seriously about whether they really do want them. It's not at all established that they bring anything to a city but huge construction headaches and debt. The Sydney stadiums are just sitting there; apparently they aren't being used to the extent that Australians thought they would be. Athens may spend a generation paying for these Games. Also, TV ratings have been consistently spotty the last few years.
But the real answer is that the olympics will have a future as long as Visa, McDonalds and Coca Cola are willing to pay massive sponsorship fees, and as long as networks like NBC continue to pay billions in rights fees. The Olympics aren't really about attendance or viewers. They are really about a gigantic multinational business deal. NBC will suffer the poor ratings cheerfully because the parent company, General Electric, is going to get a toehold in China with the Olympics going to Beijing.
What you and I consider indications of the health of the Olympics, such as TV ratings and ticket sales, actually don't matter. What matters is the sponsors and their determination that the Olympics is a great tool with which to pitch products and make inroads into foreign markets.
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Detroit, Mich.:
Okay, it's a huge holiday weekend in Greece, that can sort of explain the lack of attendance at the events. However, if this lack of attendance continues even after the long holiday, do you think the IOC will have to re-evaluate where they host the Olympics based on which countries are likely to be able to fully financially support the Olympics and get fans in the stands?
Sally Jenkins: Nope. I think the IOC doesn't really care about the paying audience. We are a speck to them. They care about their "corporate partners." Ask yourself why IOC chief Jacques Rogge, with everything he has to do this week, took the time to go to a huge McDonalds press conference, announcing that McDonalds plans to build 1000 fast food stops in China? Answer: audience doesn't matter. What matters is the consumer markets a country delivers as an Olympic host.
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Washington, D.C.:
What can you tell us about the Australian swimming
program and the popularity if the sport there? They
seem to turn out an exceptionally good team
considering the poulation there. I am really enjoying
the swimming, but NBC seem to want to turn it into a
USA vs Australia event. It seems to me they are
ignoring some great European and Asian
performances in the pool.
Sally Jenkins: yeah, NBC gets really myopic. It's good for ratings, they think, if they pitch the swimming as a big rivalry between Aussies and americans. A rivalry is certainly there, but it's the end all of the action in the pool.
As for the Aussies, they have a rich swimming tradition, it's practically their national pasttime. They are much more serioius spectatiors of it year round than Americans are. It's their baseball. Swimming is their birthright. Thorpe is just one of a long line.
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Denver, Colo.:
Although I know the events are only into their 4th day, it seems like the US Olympic Team hasn't come close yet to meeting expectations. Are USOC Officials talking about this yet? I mean, who expected the US to have only 3 gold medals this deep into the competition? The biggest failure, in my opinion, has been in the pool, where there was all this hype that Team USA was sending its strongest team ever. Do you agree that things are not looking all that good for the USOC at this point? --Steve
Sally Jenkins: First of all, I think the notion of a medal count is silly. All it proves is that the U.S. and China have the biggest populations.
That said, yes, it's shaping up as a very disappointing Olympics for the USOC, but that's their fault for always making world-domination statements like, "We want to bring home 100 medals." It makes them sound as bad as East Germans.
what's interesting is that, looking ahead on the schedule, you can more disapointments shaping up. Our track team, for instance, has been gutted by doping cases.
personally, I think this may help restore some perspective and get us off the medal-count tracking system.
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Rockville, Md.:
I closely followed the Washington D.C. area's bid for the 2012 Games? Since the IOC will be announcing the 2012 site next summer, have you heard any buzz on New York's chances or which city is the front runner?
Sally Jenkins: What buzz I heard came from Dan Doctoroff, the lead pitchman for NYC 20012. He says New York has two things against it: 1) the IOC doesn't like "elevator" Olympics, meaning high rises, and 2) NYC would use ferries for a lot of transportation.
The IOC prefers more horizontal Olympics because they;ve had bad experiences in the past with huge crowds of athletes and officials trying to get in and out of buildings. That's why most Olympic villages tend to be low rises.
Also, the ferry proposal is unorthodox. They're used to proposals that feature bus systems, metros, and brand new trams and such. But NYC would use ferries along the Hudson and East Rivers as a major transportation system. The IOC is not sure what to make of that.
Now, I'm a New Yorker. And I happen to live right on the Hudson river. And I can tell you that the ferries are fabulous and are a way the smart New Yorker gets around. They're quicker that cabs or subways and they happen to be gorgeous and fun to ride.
I think a New York Olympics would be a extraordinary.
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Riverdale Park, Md.:
Hello Sally,
Did you catch what happened after Sunday's bad-tempered volleyball match between the US and Italy? One of the US players said "F--- you!" to one of the Italian players!
I don't think I've ever witnessed such sore losing at the Olympics.
Sally Jenkins: Well, they're no worse than the Veep on the floor of the Senate.
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Oakton, Va.:
Do you agree with those that say the men's basketball team is losing because they are selfish, have not heart, and play individual basketball vs. team basketball? I think its terribly unfair to these players (how about the fact that these are rules they aren't accustomed too and haven't played with each other as long as other teams). They may make alot of the money playiing for the NBA, but they are not getting paid anymore than Phelps or anyone else for playing in these Olympics, so can we stop the personal attacks?
Sally Jenkins: I do agree. They are selfish and heartless and they play individual ball instead of the team game.
Two stories. I heard this the other day from another reporter. The other day, Larry Brown and Roy Williams asked Allen Iverson to take off his do-rag. "You're representing your country," they said.
Iverson replied, "I signed up for the Olympics, not the Army," he said.
Second story: The U.S. women's basketball team has been to all of the guys' games. But the only member of the men's team who has returned the favor and been to watch the women play is Emeka Okafor, because he went to college with Diana Taurasi Sue Bird and Swin Cash.
Mike Wise and I watched the women for a few minutes yesterday. They led the Czehcs by 21 points with about four minutes to go, and they were still playing team basketball. On one possesion, we counted six passes. on the next possession, five people touched the ball. They scored oin both possessions, naturally.
One last story. A reporter asked Carmelo Anthony what happened against Puerto Rico. "How would I know?" he apparently said. "I wasn't out there." Anthony was more concerned with sulking over his playing time.
they;re going to lose to Greece and Lithuanian, I do believe, and come home medal-less. The women, I believe, will bring home the gold by a healthy margin.
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Silver Spring:
This was supposed to be U.S. Swimming's most powerful team EVER? It looks like some of the losses are coming to some very familiar swimmers (former NCAA stars from other countries, the Aussies.) How is US Swimming's shortcomings any less disappointing than the US men's basketball team? You can't say that U.S. Swimming is taking inferior swimmers or picking a bad team or has poor youth/collegiate coaching can you? If this were a real swim meet, Eddie Reese should be all over these guys and ladies to get their collective doldrums out of their system (swim coaches use more descriptive terms) and start swimming like the U.S. champions that they are. Enough already with swim team apologists. Losing to Ian Thorpe, I get, but some of these losses are puzzling at the least.
Sally Jenkins: Ian Crocker is a one man wrecking team, but it's not all his fault. he's cost the U.S. two relay chances because he's been sick with a sore throat. Then there's Gary Hall, who just has been a sorehead.
Honestly, my impression of our team is that they too may be a tad self absorbed. The answer for any team usually goes back to leadership.
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Washington, D.C.:
I just started reading your chat... and I think you and the first poster should calm down about the Iranian judo "controversy". The biggest story of the Olympics? Please.
The Iranian doesn't agree with Israel. He doesn't want to fight the Isreali... so he doesn't. He makes his statement. Half the world thinks he's right. The other half thinks he's wrong. No one gets hurt... and what's the problem?
Sally Jenkins: What are you, kidding? You don't go to work in your office and tell your boss, "I won't eat in cafeteria with Jews." And you don't go to an Olympics and say, "I won't play games against Jews." Or blacks. Or Asians. Or women.
If you don't want to play Jews, you don't join the IOC. Stay home.
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Silver Spring MD:
In light of your views on the domination of corporate sponsorship, do you think USA basketball will try to field an actual team next time, or continue with the more marketable collection of arrogant layup artists?
Sally Jenkins: I think this team was picked by NBA marketing. And I think we see the fruits of that. But I also think part of the probnlem was that Brown was not as involved in the selections as he could have been because he was concentrating on winning a ring with Detriot.
They need to fix the process, obviously.
But part of the problem is endemic. These guys aren't learning fundmentals because they don't go to college. They don't know the simplest things about shot selection or help defense. The mid range jumper has all but disappeared from the NBA. If somebody on that team could shoot the ball half as good as Swin Cash does, they'd be fine.
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Men's basketball:
Am I the only one upset that so much press is being devoted to a bunch of big-headed crybabies? The women's softball, basketball and soccer teams are doing great and barely get mentioned on NBC.
Sally Jenkins: Yep. It's a disservice. Only good thing about it is that being so publicly humiliated may actually help some of those guys GROW UP.
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Rockville, MD:
With the ongoing doping scandal in Track & Field do you get the impression that most people think the whole U.S. team is a bunch of cheats or are they giving the benefit of the doubt to the athletes there? As a former track athlete, my concern is that the U.S. track team as a whole no longer has any credibility. True or not?
Sally Jenkins: Well, WADA's Dick Pound has made his views plain. He believes USA Track and Field as a whole is "largely responsible" for doping. That statement suggests he thinks it's instutionalized, or semi institutionalized.
But my own opinion is that every athlete should be judged individually. Doping is a difficult subject and the current rules have no room for humanity or nuance. You're either the cheat of the century, or pure as snow. There doesn't seem much room for a Tori Edwards, who apparently can make a feasible case that she inadvertently took a banned supplement. Also, the list of banned substances changes constantly. Caffeine was considered a performance enhancer not too longer, until some wizard realized it actually DIMINSHES performance.
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Washington, D.C.:
If the business of the Olympics is all about sponsorship, can you explain where these fees go and what they are used for? To the IOC? To the host city? To individual country teams? Other costs? Everyone keeps talking about the enormous cost of the games, but I still don't have a good sense of who is paying for what. And someone, somewhere, must be profiting, right?
Sally Jenkins: The IOC is accountable to no one but itself. It likes to say that "92 percent" of those monies from sponsors and rights fees "are distributed." What that means is anyone's guess.
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Laurel, MD:
Hey Sallyiapolis! What a great name - it suits you!
I have heard about the winds that are blowing like crazy over there and wonder how that is affecting our sailing team? I heard the cancelled some of the races due to the wind. How are the sailors coping with unusually heavy winds? For that matter, how has it affect other sports? Archery, swimming, etc?
Thanks and have some lovely Greek food for your fans!
Sally Jenkins: Lots of capsizings. You can see white water and the heavy chop. Apparently even the big hydrofoil high speed ferries that take you to the Islands are rolling so bad it's making the passengers seasick.
But on land, it's a beautiful wind. They love their wind in Greece. There's a famous monumemnt to it, the Column of the Seven winds, in the ruins of the old city, which is seven- sided, for each of the individually named wind direcions that blow throught the Aegean-Saronic.
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Washington, D.C.:
I understand that you disagree with the Iranian judo guy's stance... so do I.
But you misrepresented the situation. He refused to fight his opponent becuase he was from Israel, not because he was Jewish. Perhaps there was a subtext to his decision, but his stated reason for not fighting was because his opponent was from an oppresive regime. I still don't agree with him, but you shouldn't distort the situation.
Sally Jenkins: Look. Have it you way: he refused to fight an Israeli, who JUST HAPPENS to be a Jew. The IOC charter is clear. You can't come here and refuse to play someone based on their nationality, any more than their religion or race or gender. It's a violation of EVERY SINGLE THING the Olympics stand for. It breaks about a dozen clearly stated rules in the Oly charter.
FURTHERMORE -- it also clearly states that no federation should subject its athletes to political pressure. That too is grounds for IOC sanctions.
This isn't distortion. This is clear and unpleasant fact. Iran should be out of here, and their flags should be removed in disgrace.
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Iranian Judo:
"don't want to play with Jews " He didn't say that.
He's protesting the mistreatment of Palestinians. What's wrong with that ?
Stop distorting the issue !
Sally Jenkins: What's wrong with that is, it breaks several clearly stated Olympic rules, as well as the rules of international judo competition. That's what's wrong with it. And it clearly states in the IOC Charter that the IOC has the ability to sanction any delegation here.
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Bethesda, Md.:
I swam for Curl-Burke and collegiately at Michigan. The pseudo-dolphin kick is ILLEGAL. The U.S. should have made a bigger stink at Worlds and prior to the Olympics. The stroke and turn judge botched this one big time. Even my 9 yr old has been DQ'd for using the kick (feet are not flexed in a proper whip kick) at a swim meet. It's a rule that's like Allen Iverson's crossover (it's a carry unless Jordan does it,) it all comes down to the judge.
Sally Jenkins: yeah, but that's my point. The Olympics is not the place to suddenly protest it. They should have brought it up before now. Apparently the Japanese swimmer was told in other international competitions that his kick is not an illegal dolphin kick, it conforms to the rules. So...that's what the USA has to live by.
By the way, has anyone seen any tape of the kick?
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Washington, D.C. Capitol Hill:
I was all excited to see the opening ceremony pageantry. However, insipid and seemingly never-ending chit-chat by the NBC commentators nearly spoiled it. Bob Costas, in particular, seemed to never shut up. I understand their need to cut to commercials. It's the constant blather during coverage that I find really tiresome. I'd love to see the entire event without the NBC voice-over. Any idea where I can get such a thing?
Sally Jenkins: Yeah. Canada. BBC. Eurosport. just about every other live network in the world comments on the opening ceremonies with more dignity than NBC.
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Fairfax, Va.:
Why should U.S. viewers have to sit and wait for NBC to get around to airing tape-delayed events? Why should we have to sit through cutesy-pootsey special interest stories, Katie Couric and Bob Costas making silly remarks and asking stupid questions of athletes? In every other place on Earth, people are able to see live broadcasts. I know NBC has to make its money back, but this is ridiculous. There's no reason for it in this age of instant communciation.
Also -- the excuses that NBC commentators keep making for all of the empty seats at the venues (excepting for men's b-ball and swimming) have gone from funny to absurd. It's painful.
Sally Jenkins: I actually like NBC's coverage, the opening ceremonies excepted. They have live events on all the cable channels for those who want to get up and watch. The tape delay is a way of packaging some nice features and story development for prime time and I see nothing wrong with trying to use it to add depth. generally I learn things from NBC'
s features, and some of them are actually beautiful.
Whatever you think of NBC's coverage, it's done with a real enthusiasm for the Games. You have to give them that.
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Herndon, Va.:
Sally Jenkins,
(1) Your column on Dick Pound was absolutely superb, and long overdue. Has this Meltemi-bag been floating around Athens (no news on him, thankfully).
(2) Still seeing half-empty venues (and I think that's a generous estimate). To me, this is a huge story inasmuch as Greece needs the crowds to at least breakeven on the Games. If not, a lesson will be taught for other cities, and may hurt the IOC's pocketbook. washingtonpost.com:
The Difficulty of Watching Pound Throw His Weight Around (Post, Aug. 13)
Sally Jenkins: Dick Pound is here and I actually had coffee with him a couple of mornings ago. We had a civil exchange, but we disagree pretty profoundly.
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Riva, Md.:
I lived in Greece as a child in the 50's and return whenever possible. I'd be there now but for a drunk driver who fractured my pelvis, but I'm hoping to return as soon as possible, maybe next year.
I really, really want the Olympics to go well and am sorry to read that Greece may be taking a bath financially because of security costs and poor attendance. However, it's my understanding that the international community has built them a new airport (Athens had far and away the poorest airport of any European capital), a new subway system, new light rail, and vastly improved highways.
So my question is, how easy has it been to get around Athens? Have you taken any of these new and/or improved transportation systems? Is there any hope that this will in fact decrease the congestion and pollution that had become as much a symbol of Athens as the acropolis?
PS My favorite Olympic moment so far was the Greek gold medal in synchronized diving. Never even heard of it until this week, but I had all my convalescent home buddies cheering them on, too.
Sally Jenkins: Athens is magnificent. The airport is now one of the best in all of Europe. So are the trains, and the buses and the trams. Everything runs perfectly and is beautifully organized. It is one of the easiest, most hospitable, and most hauntingly beautiful Olympics I've ever covered. I will be coming back here on vacation first chance I get.
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Arlington, Va.:
I find it impossible to get excited about the Olympics. The drug scandals have taken all of the fun out of the games. It's seems pointless to follow any of the track and field events when four years from now a number of the athletes are likely to be stripped of their medals as a result of a failed drug test. And I find it difficult to believe that the swimming events are not polluted by performance-enhancing drugs. In the first three days of swimming competition, nine world or Olympic records have been broken. You don't see anywhere near this many records broken in events that are less reliant on strength and endurance. It takes blind faith to believe all of this was achieved legitimately. Do you sense that the fans in Athens are concerned about drug use or do they beleive that drug use is a non-issue? washingtonpost.com:
The Difficulty of Watching Pound Throw His Weight Around (Post, Aug. 13)
Sally Jenkins: I think that's too bad. try watching the women's basketball team. Or gymnastics, which will astonish you. The only drug scandal of note currently is in track, and track hasn't even started yet. So you must only care about running. Which frankly is one of the most boring things here.
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Washington, D.C.:
Given the vastly empty seats at the Olympics, wouldn't it be fair to say that the real winner of these games is al Qaeda? Face it, the corruption and doping scandals only serve to keep the games in everyone's minds. This year, however, fear of terrorism has ruined the games that have been the celebration of non-secular Western Civilization. Our war on terrorism, where we fight as alliance with many Muslim nations, is being very badly managed.
Sally Jenkins: No, the real winner of the Games is Athens, which has already been profoundly altered no matter how many empty seats there are. These Games will do for Athens what the Olympics did for Barcelona, remake its reputation as a splendid first rate European capitol that must be visited.
one of the things that has happened here that hasn't received muc coverage is that every museum in Athens has been renovated and refurbished. It's about to become a must-see destination for anyone interested in classical art. Which is hugely significant for Greeks, who've had to sit by and watch people go to the British Museum to study their sculpture instead of come here.
And by the way. The Elgin Marbles need to be renamed the Parthenon marbles and sent back here, promptly. All you have to do is stand in front of the Parthenon and look up to understand that those marbles are stolen property.
Okay. Back to my day job.
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