2004 Athens Olympics
Tracee Hamilton
Washington Post Deputy Sports Editor
Thursday, August 26, 2004; 10:00 a.m. ET
What is the latest news at the Athens Olympics?
The U.S. women's basketball team advances to the semifinals with a 102-72 win over Greece. Californians Misty May and Kerri Walsh win the gold medal in beach volleyball. While decathlon favorite Tom Pappas pulls out of the because of an injured foot, his teammate Bryan Clay takes the silver. Also,
American wrestler Rulon Gardner settles for the bronze after his semifinal loss to Kazakhstan's Georgi Tsurtsumia. Finally, both men's and women's gymnastics competitions at the 2004 Games have showcased the biggest pandora's box of judging controversies.
Deputy Sports Editor Tracee Hamilton was online Thursday, Aug. 26, at 10 a.m. ET to discuss the latest medalists and events in Athens.
Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Alexandria, Va.:
It seems the Greek Olympics turned out the best ever
- Was the world media wrong on judging the
capabilities of Greece hosting the Olympic games?
And do we owe them an apology?
N. Vandegrift
Tracee Hamilton: NO. I've heard a lot of this lately, that the media basically "made up" the negative stuff about Greece being unprepared. No one wrote any of that without actually traveling to Athens, and believe me, if you'd seen it in March, you'd be STUNNED. I certainly was. I still am, in fact. I came back from here in March certain that the Games would be held, but would be a mess. I couldn't be happier to be wrong, but if you'd seen what I saw ... the only venue where people were actually working was the soccer stadium in Athens, and it was privately funded. The rest ... three of four guys smoking and talking on cell phones. Seriously. That said, everything has worked great, we've written that and will write it again. But don't shoot the messenger.
Also, I will say this: What you see on TV isn't the full picture. A lot of those shots would look different if the cameras panned out. There was a lot of "beautifying" that didn't get done here. Still, I give them total credit for a miracle.
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Alexandria, Va.:
Tracee,
Do you know how many US athletes are competing in Athens?
The US always outmedals all other countries at the Olympics, but that probably has a lot to do with the fact that we probably send the largest contingent.
Tracee Hamilton: I believe the final U.S. count is 538 or 539. Yes, our contigent is huge. There is a website devoted to doing the actual medal table by population of country that might interest you. I don't have the URL but if you google "Olympic medal table" it pops up.
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Washington, D.C.:
Tracee,
I just wanted to let you know I LOVE the side columns, Greek to Me and Alpha and Omega. They are a hoot. Mike Wise seems to have hit the wall with today's little ditty about taking a shower.
Keep up the good work.
Tracee Hamilton: You are very kind. Mike Wise did hit the wall; he slept here in our office the night before last. He's very funny when he's tired.
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Washington, D.C.:
I would like an update on the Iranian athlete who defaulted rather than play an Israeli opponent. I'm very disappointed that the media seem to have dropped the ball on this. Isn't there any concern that this behavior is being condoned by non-action on the part of the IOC?
Tracee Hamilton: We were JUST discussing this in our office before the chat. We are not done with this issue. At least, I'M not. We watched the wrestling draw carefully because there were Israelis and Iranians in the same pools, but they never met. I do not understand the attitude of the IOC on this. Our Amy Shipley is having breakfast tomorrow with Jacques Rogge and this is on her list of things to ask. The IOC gets involved if you usurp the darn rings but they let a member nation refuse to compete against another member nation? And then when that nation is Israel, a nation that lost 11 athletes at an Olympics? Which, of course, the IOC still fails to recognize at Opening Ceremonies, year after year. It makes me crazy.
The IOC hides behind "it's a federation issue" too often. That's what they say about the gymnastics judging and the judo problem as well. Well, if the federations can't handle it, the IOC needs to. They certainly were willing to butt in when the problem was their beloved figure skating.
As you can see, some of us are still worked up about this. :)
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Washington, D.C.:
I would like to use your chat for a quick pole. Even
though I like gymnastics I was very annoyed the
other night when NBC devoted such a large amount
of time to the gymnastics "exhibition" night. Surely
they could have used this time to introduce some
other sports that actually had medal implications and
to introduce some sports that they haven't really
covered so far. For example track cycling, handball,
field hockey etc. Do NBC really think we prefer this
vanilla coverage and wouldn't like to have even a
small taste of some of the lesser known sports.
Anyone else agree with this?
Tracee Hamilton: I haven't seen a minute of NBC (can't here) but I'll give you a vote. The gymnastics exhibition in the summer and the skating gala in the winter are great events to attend, but should not be televised to that extent. Gymnastics and skating both get a big enough piece of the pie. I understand that was the night that NBC shorted the El Guerrouj celebration. Pity. That was something to see. A great moment that most of you missed.
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Silver Spring, Md.:
Have you ever heard of an athlete knocking four seconds from his or her personal best in a 400m hurdles race? I'm amazed that the Greek press that has been so gleeful in castigating U.S. athletes accused/suspended of using steroids, has given one of its own a free pass on the eyebrow raising that has been going on. Hey, Greece, where's the love, babe?
Tracee Hamilton: That is certainly a spectacular result. Clearly, Greece felt some serious pressure to field a great Olympics team. That said, she'll be tested like everybody else and we shall see.
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Virginia:
How about those two "punk, all-ego, no-respect-for-the-game" guards Allen Iverson and Stephon Marbury leading the US to a strong victory over Spain?
I've been shocked at the number of my co-workers and friends rooting against the men's b-ball team so that they'll "learn a lesson."
What's it like over there? Is there a lot of animosity -- as opposed to the respect for previous Dream Teams -- from both foreign and US fans? I'm rooting for the team b/c they are facing a harder road than any b-ball team before -- and are responding with class, I think.
Tracee Hamilton: There isn't a lot of love for the U.S. team over here. Lots of booing and whistling during the just completed win. There is a feeling, I think, that we as a country deserve a comeuppance in a lot of areas. The Greeks have been, by and large, very welcoming, but the anti-American graffitti around my hotel in March is still there today.
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Iladeph, Pa.:
OK Tracee -- Not to turn this into the Reliable Source or anything, but what is the real deal with the Greek Gal that won the 400 meter hurdles? I suspect that she is on drugs for no other reason beyond the fact that she was a journalist at one stage....
Tracee Hamilton: God knows no journalist I know could clear a hurdle. Ha! Actually, Amy Shipley could. Listen, that's why they test them all. We'll see what comes out. Improvements like hers always raise eyebrows and with some justification.
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Anonymous:
How can D.C. get its own team for Beijing? If Guam, Peurto Rica and the Virigin Islands get their own teams, why not us? Tracee Hamilton: What a great idea! Of course, it will never fly, but I like it!
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Cambridge, Mass.:
Is it true that Stephon Marbury has his very own towel guy to dry off his head during time outs?
Tracee Hamilton: Hadn't heard that one. Wilbon and Wise are over there now; maybe Wilbon can answer that in his chat.
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Oak Hill, Va.:
Tracee,
Leading up to the Games, it was Balco-this, Dick Pound-that, etc., etc. And I thought that the story-line would've continued down the same vein. Very pleased that the focus has been on the competition and the results. On another note: it seems that many non-US athletes train and/or go to school in the US. I'm sure it varies by sport, but any idea as to breadth of this trend? How much is the US a breeding ground for Olympic athletes?
Tracee Hamilton: I don't think the Balco business is over, just set aside a bit. That said, the connection between Balco and the Greeks is an interesting story.
I don't have any numbers on the training question but it is certainly going on, especially in areas in which the U.S. is strong. Amy wrote a story this summer about a pool in Florida where swimmers from 11 countries train. Certainly the track athletes congregate in California, Arizona, etc. Some countries with no funding are helped by the USOC; for instance, the Iraqi athletes went to Colorado Springs to train. I actually think that is a great program (the USOC one) and a good thing for the U.S. to do.
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Pittsburgh, Pa.:
Re: the side columns, Greek to Me and Alpha and Omega - can you create a link to these? Thanks. washingtonpost.com:
ALPHA AND OMEGA: Summing Up Day 13
Tracee Hamilton: here you go; thanks!
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Anonymous:
Tracee,
What's the latest update from there? I don't want to wait until this afternoon to hear about who won what.
Tracee Hamilton: Well, unfortunately, there is almost nothing going on during the day today. The modern pentathlon is underway and Chad Senior (GW) is in the middle of the pack and the other U.S. entry whose name I cannot spell off the top of my head is in the top 10. Mike Ruane is covering it for us. The U.S. men defeated Spain; the game was closer than the final score will indicate but I think it's the Americans' best game thus far. Pau Gasol looks VERY good. No early track, nothing else much happening. It's too hot to do anything in the day here. I hated watching the equestrian yesterday; those poor horses were schvitzing! Wish I had more to tell you...
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Volcano, Hawaii:
Would you know why Irina Shevchenko's
appeal for a re-run was denied in the
women's 100m hurdles? It seemed like
a rough deal when Perdita Felicien ran
into her after crashing into the first hurdle.
Under what sort of circumstances would
such an appeal be granted? Thanks.
Tracee Hamilton: I asked my track expert and she said she's never seen a race re-run. We don't have the IAAF rulebook here but I'm sure there are situations, such as if someone deliberately interfered with a runner, perhaps. However, this is the breaks of the game in track. Hurdlers fall down. Runners trip and fall. El Guerrouj. Mary Decker Slaney. Track, like life, isn't always fair.
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Rosslyn, Va.:
The women's soccer gold medal match is scheduled for today at 12:30pm, am I correct? And for those of us who aren't able to get to a tv to watch the event, will it be re-broadcast in the evening on NBC (no cable at home)? Any other sports I should keep an eye out to watch before the olympics wrap up? (can't stand track and field)
Tracee Hamilton: You are right. According to our TV listings, the only replay will be on Telemundo. If you can't stand track and field, the weekend will be tough. But the boxing semifinals and finals should be good. I love the modern pentathlon and the equestrian competition. There will be some water polo; U.S. women going for bronze. I enjoyed the heck out of the men's volleyball match I watched on tv in here; the game has sure changed since I played it 100 years ago.
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Rosslyn, Va.:
Okay, why are "sports" such as ping pong (table tennis), tennis, snychronized swimming, baseball, fencing, cycling, trampoline jumping in the olympics? Some of those sports have tournaments that mean so much more to the athletes why are they even in the olympics? I know sports such as- bowling, have been trying to get into the olympics for a few years now, any attempt to get some of the sports out of the olympics? Also- any sports that will be added to 2008 or is it too early to know? Thanks!
Tracee Hamilton: Golf is the big one for 2008; not sure if it'll be in but it used to be an Olympic sport. Baseball and softball are in danger in 2008. What makes a sport an Olympic sport all depends on who that sport's supporters are and how powerful they are within the IOC. If an IOC member is a big proponent of, say, taekwondo, it will become an Olympic sport. They really do need to lop off some things from the program but we'll see if they do. Tennis, to me, is silly as an Olympic sport. There is plenty of tennis being played nearly every weekend of the year. And we also have to realize that in other countries, some of the stuff we hate is HUGE. Team handball draws like the NFL in Europe.
Trampoline jumping may be the stupidest one yet, and that's saying something. But fencing is SO cool to watch, and the U.S. has worked so hard to become competitive in it. Let's not drop it just yet!
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re. gymnastics exhibition:
I didn't think enough time was devoted!!! And I love the figure skating one, too. On the other hand, I've had enough with the "Dream Team".....Too many bad attitudes, I hope they don't win the gold. Maybe winning the silver would make them realize that a gold is earned and not deserved.
Tracee Hamilton: Another opinion on the exhibition. You need to get tickets to the show at MCI Center!
I'm not sure winning silver would teach the U.S. men's team much of anything but I could be wrong.
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Washington, D.C.:
As far as that poll goes, I too was infuriated with the televised gymnastics "exhibition." There are so many fantastic events NBC could show that center on the greatest athletes in the world, but instead they show gymnasts goofing around. Not as bad as 6 years ago when NBC devoted prime time to showing skaters working out at the practice rink instead of actual events, but still quite bad.
Tracee Hamilton: There you go!
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Washington, D.C.: RE: a do-over?:
Is the Russian delegation a little out of control this year or is it just me? They want a re-do of the gymnastics scoring because they didn't win the medal they wanted. They want a re-do of the floor exercise in the women's all-around. They want a re-do of the hurdles because the American won when the world champion fell down. What is going on with the Russians?
Tracee Hamilton: The Russians used to be No. 1 or No. 2 in medals won every Olympics, and they see their stock sinking, for a variety of reasons. They also tend to be a little histrionic. Remember, they threatened to pull out of Salt Lake over the skating business. More on this topic in Sunday's paper, by the way...
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Detroit, Mich.:
I haven't heard much in the past day or so about the men's gymnastics controversy. IS this because the FIG said- it's over, everything stands. OR, do you think it has to do with the fact that the South Korean that got the bronze did SOOOOO poorly in the men's high bar for the individual event? I have a sneaking feeling that since he did so bad the protests to award the SK a gold for the individual all-around have pretty much ended because he showed the world that well, he didn't deserve the gold.
Tracee Hamilton: His showing in the apparatus finals didn't help his cause. Our Liz Clarke has LITERALLY been chasing FIG officials all over Athens, trying to get more comment on this, and they are running for their lives. I don't think it's over for good, but the Olympic train tends to move on during the 17 days. I'm sure gymnastics scoring will be revisited. And the debate about Paul Hamm seems far from over.
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Hyattsville, Md.:
Since the doping investigation involved lots of US atheletes (track & field), have they been treated well in Greece despite the scandals? Just wondering if other atheletes or even fans are judging them. Also, any other countries have drug scandals to this degree just before the Olympics started?? Thanks.
Tracee Hamilton: The U.S. athletes seem to be treated with respect at track and field. I didn't notice any booing of Marion Jones, for instance. Other countries did have some drug scandals, not as big as ours. Poland lost a few athletes right before the games. And of course many weightlifters from all over have been suspended this year, and many more since the games began. Doping isn't just an American problem; we just notice it more, especially when it involves our track athletes IN AN OLYMPIC YEAR. That makes all the difference.
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When are these things over?:
NBC's coverage has been awful. I know I shouldn't blame the messenger, but if I never see Bob Costas again, I'll be happy. If they actually showed some events rather than drill us with the things americans are good at, I might be able to watch. NBC's coverage is antithetical to the olympic spirit. How much more of this do I have to endure?
Tracee Hamilton: Well, according to my calendar, four my days. :) Everyone should have a Magic TV like we have. NO ONE TALKS. Now, occasionally you wish there were announcers to explain what happened (on gymnastics nights it was confusing) but by and large, it's a wonder. Sorry NBC is still not quite getting it; their numbers are certainly better than Sydney...
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Kansas City, Mo.:
Tracee,
I just read the article on the US Men beating Spain. Wilbon will probably cover this but why was Larry and the Spanish coach yelling at each other?
PS Hello from one of your UDK sports staff!
washingtonpost.com:
U.S. Survives Test From Spain, Advances (AP, Aug. 26)
Tracee Hamilton: oh my, UDK sports staff! For those poor souls who didn't attend the University of Kansas, that's the student newspaper. Hello right back!
I do not know about the yelling. This is one of those instances where I wish we HAD TV commentators. I will ask Wilbon and Wise when they return.
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Virginia:
I agree about the gymnastics exhibition. We had already seen those atheletes do those same routines three times previously in these Olympics... why do we need to see them do the same thing again?
Tracee Hamilton: another vote for the poll
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Washington, D.C.:
I miss seeing Marion Jones. Would she have fared well this Olympics in the running events? For instance the 100, 200 and 400. Thanks.
Tracee Hamilton: I do not believe she would have placed in the 100 or 200. But you will get to see her twice tomorrow: long jump final and women's 4x100. You will be able to judge for yourself. I didn't think she looked in peak shape at the trials but if she was picked for the relay team, she must be ready. From all accounts she's been a dream on the relay team, low profile, helpful and mentoring. Handling her problems with a lot of class.
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Washington, D.C.:
If we're going to talk about dropping a sport, gymnastics has to be at the top of that list. I think this year's melodrama proved once and for all what a waste of time that "sport" is.
Tracee Hamilton: Gotta disagree with that. The subjective judging sports are hard to defend, but the gymnasts .. those are some AMAZING athletes. Does it need to be cleaned up? Yeah. But let's not throw the pixies out with the bathwater!
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Washington, D.C.:
I've been watching everyday. I know we are approaching the closing soon. Are the best of the best events over up to this point? What sports are there to keep looking out for? Thanks for the info.
Tracee Hamilton: The last few days are always a bit of a letdown. As I said before, the boxing will be good, the basketball medal games, the men's marathon will be moving. But there is definitely not as much going on. Which is good for us because everyone here is a wreck.
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Germantown, Md.:
By the way, do the horses get medals too?
Tracee Hamilton: To my knowledge, they get hay and carrots and hopefully a lot of love, but no medals. LOVE those horses.
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Washington, D.C.:
So why not football as an Olympic sport? For those who think the US basketballers are a bunch of prima donnas, they ain't seen nothin yet.
Tracee Hamilton: I wouldn't wish that on anyone, even the IOC! It is odd to be so far removed from football for nearly three weeks; is Joe Gibbs still coach of the Redskins? :) All that will change soon, of course.
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Concord, N.H.:
Am I right that FIG basically said, "It's up to Hamm whether or not to give up the gold medal." If so, what are they doing? Do they run the sport or not? It is incredibly unfair to require an athlete to make a decision that should only be made by the governing body.
Tracee Hamilton: I agree with this. They put tremendous pressure on that kid. He's maybe not handling it perfectly, but it's hard to know how that would feel. As I said earlier, FIG is LITERALLY running from the issue. Worse than the skating folks!
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Arlington, Va. Re: "bad attitudes":
I disagree with the poster who says that the men's basketball has shown "bad attitudes" during the Olympic tournament. On the court, they are getting booed and whistled at every turn and they haven't retaliated or shown contempt for the fans or opposing players. The don't excessively showboat, if the previous poster has ever seen an NBA game, he/she would know that. Just because they are millionaires doesn't give anyone the right to say they have a bad attitude. I would bet that even Wilbon would agree on that one. We can't win the gold every single time in hoops. The women's team hasn't and we don't ridicule them, do we?
Tracee Hamilton: The men's team has behaved impeccably during the tournament. No incidents on court, and if they've done something off court we haven't heard about it. It's hard to showboat when you're struggling to win, so that really hasn't been a problem. Listen, these are the Americans who were willing to do this. Some of them begged for the opportunity. It's not fair to generalize about them in any way.
That said, the U.S. women have won every gold medal except '76 (first year) and '80 (boycott) so there's not much to ridicule there.
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Arlington, Va.:
Hi Tracee,
Have you heard anything about the Tae Kwon Do matches starting today? I'm not even sure if NBC plans any coverage on this event. Do you know if there are any Americans competing or expected to win?
Thanks!
Tracee Hamilton: Taekwondo does start today; I don't believe either American goes today, however. We only have two competitors: Nia Abdallah from Houston, fairly new to the game, who beat out one of the famous Lopez family to be here; and Steve Lopez, obviously one of the famous Lopez family of taekwondo experts. Steve Lopez has an excellent shot at a medal; Abdallah is a bit more of an unknown quantity.
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Pittsburgh, Pa.:
RE: Men's gymnastics. It seems to me unfair that there has been talk of Hamm giving up his medal, but at the same time, I don't understand why it would be so difficult just to award another gold to the Korean gymnast. Why would that be a problem?
Tracee Hamilton: FIG says they aren't allowed to do that, by their rules. The USOC would cooperate. the IOC won't get involved. I don't see it happening for those reasons.
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Woodbridge, Va.:
Don't drop Gymnastics!! Gymnastics, Swimming (not sychronized though), and Soccer are the only Summer Olympic sports I actually enjoy watching (oo- beach volley ball is cool for a few min.)! Can't wait for the Winter Olympics!
Tracee Hamilton: I'm with you, and not just because of the heat. Love the Olympics, but the winter ... LOVE the winter Olympics. Turin is not that far away!
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Hyattsville, Md.:
So much drama with the womens marathon. How is Paula Radcliffe, she looked terribly ill. What was her downfall? I thought no way can she handle the heat. Seems she only race in much more comfortable climates. And Deena of the US -- great comeback.
Tracee Hamilton: The heat that day was a misery, but it was hot for everyone. It seems Deena Kastor's training for the heat gave her an advantage. I'm no marathon expert but if you're a marathoner from London you should be living and training somewhere else, and she probably is, for all I know. (Wish Bonnie Berkowitz was out there to field this one; she's our marathon expert)
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Washington, D.C.:
re- Gymnastics Exhibition. Hey! Give the kids a break for some of them it probably was a big deal! Think of Ania Hatch, she ONLY did the Vault, so, for her the exhibition gives her a chance to be on the floor for another few minutes! (although, I do agree- the event shouldn't be shown on tv, let the spectators there watch it, most of us already spent the past few days glued to the tv during the qualifying rounds and even finals)
Tracee Hamilton: Oh, no one wants to kill it. I went to the skating exhibition in Albertville in '92 and it was the most fun event I ever saw. Just don't take up broadcast time with it. There are too many other fine athletes with interesting stories here.
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Arlington, Va.:
For the last few years of his life, the late IOC director Avery Brundage was ridiculed for trying to preserve the amateur ideal in the Olympic movement, which to many was mired as an anachronistic, aristocratic approach. After a couple of decades of open professionalism, I'm ready to turn back the clock. The whole idea of fair play has been lost.
Someone asked why the Russians are so petulant about their losses? Maybe it has something to do with the $110,000 bonuses they have been promised for every gold medal.
Tracee Hamilton: Excellent point about the bonuses. That would make a person petulant.
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Washington, D.C.:
Too much gymnastics coverage! Don't laugh but I wanted to see synchronized swimming! Those ladies are great! Judo would have been good too.
My office pals have been debating on the best all around athletes. I say gymasts because they are strong, flexible and have great balance. What's your opinion?
Tracee Hamilton: I think gymnasts are amazing athletes. High muscle, low body fat, flexible ... and then think of the sheer impact of all those landings (even with the mats). Their hands and feet are torn up. And we almost never see them fall; think how many times they fall on their heads, necks, shoulders, etc. They are tough folks, the gymnasts. I'm not sure how to determine the best athletes but they've gotta be right up there.
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Washington, D.C.:
Can I come to the defense of the US men's basketball team? I have watched almost all the Olympic games and exhibitions prior to the Games. The team initially seemed to have confidence/arrogance that they are undisputably the best in the world. That arrogance, however, disappeared pretty quickly when Italy beat them, and then again when Puerto Rico beat them in the Games. Since then, they have been really fun to watch, working hard all game and acting with uncharacteristic humility. People think the reason the team has lost some games is that they aren't trying or are too confident. Not so. Other teams have just improved and US basketball has taken a step back. There certainly is enough blame to go around about why US basketball has taken a step back, but it is unfair to focus that blame on these 12 guys. They're in Greece and seem to be giving it their all.
Tracee Hamilton: you can, and did.
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Georgetown, Washington, D.C.:
I seem to have read a lot in the Post's coverage about how
well the women's side of the team is doing in this
Olympics and whether Title IX has had an impact. But I
haven't seen very much on the widespread cuts to men's
Olympic teams from Title IX and what impact that has
had on our male Olympians. Have the editors and
reporters discussed this and have you asked any of the
athletes for their views?
Tracee Hamilton: Yes, we've discussed this. This is something you'll see more about. Although with the cuts in men's gymnastics, this is one of the best teams ever. Wrestling ... that's another story. The USOC is concerned about this and is trying to do something about it. As I said, it's not going unnoticed and there will be stories to come on it.
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Washington, D.C.:
Tracee, no question, just wanted to thank you guys so much for the awesome coverage you've been giving us. You guys are the best. Wish I was there.
Tracee Hamilton: What a great way to sign off! Thanks much for all the questions and comments; it's good to know what the readers are talking about back home when we are so far away. Enjoy the rest of the Games!
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