The Chat House: Athens 2004 Olympics
Michael Wilbon
Washington Post Sports Columnist
Monday, August 16, 2004; 11:00 a.m. ET
The 2004 Olympic Games are underway in Athens. How are things going? Any major victories or losses? What are some of the hot developing stories?
Join Post Sports columnist Michael Wilbon online Monday, Aug. 16, at 11 a.m. ET. He will join you live from Athens to talk about the Olympics, in particular basketball.
A transcript of the discussion follows:
Submit your questions and comments any time, before or during today's discussion.
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Springfield, Va.:
Hello Michael,
Do you think that the US basketball team will show some heart and play hard for the rest of the Olympics? Or are going to shut it down and get out of Athens on the first flight available once they are elimated?
Michael Wilbon: First of all, hello to everybody in the Chat House from sunny, breezy, wonderful Athens where we're in the middle of Day 3 of the Summer Olympics...Obviously, we're going to spend most of the time dealing with the U.S. Basketball team and it's blowout loss last night to Puerto Rico...
I can see from the angry tone of the questions that A)folks are angry and want to choke somebody and B)Americans are naive and arrogant and presumptuous and don't know as much about basketball outside the U.S. as they think they do or ought to.
What happened here last night against Puerto Rico had nothing to do with heart or not playing hard enough or wanting it enough or all those other b.s. cliches people hide behind when they or a team they want to win get kicked upside the head.
The U.S. team isn't that good. It has no shooters. None. What's the most fundamental thing you have to do in a basketball game? I'd say shoot the ball. The U.S. can't do that as well as any of the good teams playing in this Olympic tournament.
The U.S. team's best three-point shooter, as determined by NBA rankings, is Richard Jefferson, who ranks 47th in the league. The U.S. shot 3-for-24 from three-point range last night, which stinks. Puerto Rico, on the other hand, made 8 of 16 three-pointers.
Do the math.
The U.S. won the rebounding battle by 19
And still lost by 20.
It wasn't a lack of heart, it was a lack of skill. And those same skill-challenged U.S. players have to go out and face Greece in Athens tomorrow night.
It might not be pretty again.
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Washington, DC:
Are you going to be on PTI from Athens? I'm sick of Skip Bayless.
Michael Wilbon: Come on now...Skip's a buddy of mine. I appreciate all the love (Tony hates that word) I've gotten from people who want the both of us back on PTI, but that won't happen until the first week of September because I'm here for the duration of the games...I won't be doing PTI from here (other than the 5-good minutes segments some days--like today) because ESPN doesn't really care much about these Olympics--which are owned by NBC--and beccause the 7-hour time difference makes it really, really difficult, probably impossible to do. But we'll be back soon. MW
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Charles, Washington DC:
Michael,
How is the ambiance in Greece? Are people watching the Olympics? since from what I see on TV the stadiums are mostly empty!
Michael Wilbon: The ambiance in Athens and half-empty stadiums are separate issues. Athens is beautiful. It's pulsating city that reminds me in some ways of Barcelona in that it's up and open all night. Dinner starts around 9 and goes until 1 if you need to eat that late. There's music and socializing everywhere. People are friendly and very inviting and they talk about the Games with great enthusiasm...Now, going to the Games is another matter.
We in the U.S. have grown accustomed to full stadiums and arenas and that's not really the case in most parts of the world. Tickets are more expensive than a lot of people feel that can afford...The basketball venue was full, I'll tell you that. And it'll be full Tuesday night for Greece-USA, which will be quite a scene, I imagine...Friday through Sunday were part of a big holiday weekend here. Sunday, Athens was empty...So I don't know what will happen today now that Athenians are returning from the beaches to the city...We'll see.
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Baltimore MD:
Mike, Is that the last lost that they can have in order to still win a gold?
Michael Wilbon: Good question. No, you have to finish in the top four (of six) in your pool to qualify...The U.S. could lose to, say, Lithuania later this week but beat Greece, New Zealand and Angola for a 3-2 record and still advance...It would take three losses, probably, to keep them out of the medal round...It's not automatic, though. Mike
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Reston VA:
Michael,
Are you so completely engorged in the Olympics that you’ve not heard about the Redskins, it appears they have much work to do on defense again this year. Your thoughts?
Michael Wilbon: Don't take this the wrong way, but I couldn't possibly care less about the Redskins.
I'M IN ATHENS. I WAKE UP AND SEE THE ACROPOLIS EVERY SINGLE DAY.
The Redskins don't occupy me. I don't think about them. It's August. I read about them because it's my job to write about them with some insight.
But you guys have to keep in mind most sportswriters love sports. We don't love specific teams. We don't love the teams you love. We love sports. I love pro football and can't wait for it to start. The week before the season opener I'm like a kid during Christmas week.
But that Jones ain't for the Redskins.
It's for football, and to a great degree for my Bears.
But I'm in Athens eating great food, paying attention to the Olympics 20 hours a day (went to bed at 5:15 this morning after the U.S. loss to Puerto Rico) and not thinking one iota about the Redskins...Sorry.
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Kensington, MD:
Michael,
I love the Olympics, but it has become hard to watch for two reasons:
1. The venues seem very empty, and I think this affects the athletes and their level of play.
2. The US team, not just the basketball players, seem disinterested in being here. I also think that after years, we have, as our leader says, "misunderestimated" our opponents.
What can we do to get back on track?
Thanks for your time.
Michael Wilbon: One again, the U.S. team is as interested as it can be. We Americans don't seem to be able to fathom the notion that THEY'RE NOT ANY DAMN GOOD! Try to let that sink in.
They're not good.
The jump well. They dunk pretty. The run fast. The scowl. They make a lot of money. They have great commericals and endorsement deals.
That doesn't mean they're great.
Anybody on this team remind you of Bird or Magic or Jordan?
The rest of the world got Peja. We went from Bird and Magic to kids out of high school with no college experience, reduced fundamentals, no appreciation for shooting the ball, and an unbelievably sense of arrogance fueled by millions of Americans thinking if we don't win against the likes of Puerto Rico it must be because we don't have heart.
Stop the madness.
Also, athletes who've worked all their lives to get here don't give a damn about who's in the stands. I hope your work doesn't suffer based on who's watching. I hope the columnist from the Toledo Blade doesn't mail it in because he or she is writing for fewer people every day than I am. And I certainly ain't giving less because USA Today has a much bigger circulation than The Post.
Competitors don't work that way, and these are the best of the best. And most of them will never make a dime from what they're doing. This is their life's work. They don't have time to look into the stands.
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Fairfax, VA:
Michael,
Thanks for taking my question. What's the story/non-story about the Iranian Judo champ who supposedly came in overweight but in actuality didn't want to fight an Israeli? I would think this would get huge press, but it's pretty quiet.
Michael Wilbon: Would love to be able to tell you, but I have no idea...Haven't written about, nor have I seen a single Iranian athlete...My goal had been to check in on the U.S. basketball team now and then, so that I could stuff like Judo and Team Handball and Wrestling and Table Tennis and Fencing...That's why I come to these damn Games all the time: I love to see stuff I can't see at MCI Arena or FedEx Field. But with the U.S. in so much drama, I've got to be there, as is the case for every columnist and basketball writer in America who has been sent here to cover the big stories of the Games.
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Greenwich, Conn:
Hey Michael,
Keep up the good reporting. My question is, what is the general attiude toward American athletes in Athens. Do you find more people rooting for non-Americans, as they see them as the underdogs (i.e Puerto Rico bball team)? Are there alot of Amercian fans supporting our athletes?
Michael Wilbon: Good question: As I had explained to me by a Turkish merchant in Kusadasi a couple of weeks ago: We don't like your government right now...some of us don't like your president and his policies. But we like to see Americans...I think that applies in Greece as well. I've had people that I've run into on the street more than once invite me to have drinks...I know a couple of basketball players have stories like that...one of the fencers told me something similar...Americans have been received well, even though we have some Yahoos over here I'd like to have expelled...We behave badly sometimes at Olympic Games, trust me...But I haven't heard much booing of the U.S. However, it is early...There's time. These things tend to come and go, almost without warning. MW
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Supportive in DC:
I'm watching the Olympics with great interest. We have a number of spectacular athletes that are worthy of our attention. In addition, there is something thrilling about seeing the BEST in the world compete, whether or not they are from the USA. It ain't all about Katie Couric interviewing US gold medal winners, folks.
Michael Wilbon: thanks for the comment
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Washington, D.C.:
Mike,
What do you think about the " controversies" around the swimming competitions? (The Japanese in the 100 meter, the Hall story for the 400 relay US team)?
Enjoy the food in Athens! I wish I was there!
Michael Wilbon: Sally Jenkins, who has been at the pool and following the swimming for awhile, says it's "debatable" as to whether Gary Hall really belonged on the 400 relay for the U.S. One reason to think he doesn't was that he didn't even bother to show up to watch his countrymen swim last night because he was so put out about not being named to the team. Maybe, Sally says, he really isn't a team guy...As for the Japanese in the 100m, Aaron Peirsall says the kid used an illegal kick. But there were judges ringing the pool and had their eyes peeled for just such a thing and didn't call a foul...
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Washington, D.C.:
What's your favorite "cult sport" so far? NBC has shown a lot of synchronised diving (in HD, too), but I haven't seen any handball or water polo because they are only being shown at 5 a.m.
Michael Wilbon: Table Tennis and Team Handball. You'd think Team Handball is so fast and so physical it would be popular in the U.S. but it isn't...I go and see it in every Olympics, whether I'm writing about it or not...And anytime I can see Brazilian women playing beach volleyball...well...
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Plattsburgh, NY:
Do you think that the US' loss in basketball will have any impact on our team sport perspective? It seems that many US teams rely on the shining talent of a handful of star players instead of a team that plays in harmony. Or is that just the way it's marketed?
Michael Wilbon: You are right on all counts. That's the way it's marketed and that's the way they put together a team, which of course really isn't a team. It's a collection. It's dumb. I'm entirely with your sentiment.
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Elkins Park, PA:
Michael,
How do you feel about the selection of Larry Brown as Olympic coach? He's never believed in outside shooting and doeasn't defend the outside shot.
Michael Wilbon: Larry Brown is arguably one of the five great coaches of the last 25 years. I didn't have him as my camp counselor, like Mr. Tony did, but I don't have to. He's fabulous. He invited Mike Bibby and Richard Hamilton, both of whom could help this team tremendously...
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Montgomery Village, Md.:
Wilbon, you wrote in your column this morning that this victory had no asterick beside it. Get real, Wilbon. This U.S. team is missing Kobe Bryant, Shaq, T-Mac, Ray Allen, Bibby, and a host of other world-class players. Why is the media shrieking over a loss by our second-best team? Yeah, I'm glad the world can finally beat our second-best team, but I'd like to see Puerto Rico beat Shaq, Bryant, T-Mac and Co. by 19. Why isn't anyone in the media pointing this out? It's a little annoying.
Michael Wilbon: Hey, Peja Stojakovic and Vlade aren't playing for Serbia & Montenegro and I don't hear them bitching every second...Dirk Nowitzki couldn't play for Germany in their qualifying effort, or did you know that?
Does Shaq shoot threes? I mentioned Ray Allen and Bibby, in that column you quote, as being the players who could have made a difference last night. So what were you actually reading? Or can you not quote it accurately.
The U.S. team got it's butt kicked, period. There are good Puerto Rican players who aren't on that team either. Their second best guard is injured and not on the team. So stop whining. That's our worst trait of all: whining.
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DC:
Wilbon-
Good to have you back for a bit. I missed seeing you all over DC. (Me: Red Georgia hat, you: at counter in Chinatown BBQ, oh never mind).
What is the feeling over there concerning security? It was such a ballyhooed story beforehand. Any concerns or things you have noticed?
Thanks and ENJOY GREECE!! Have some fresh calamari for me.
Michael Wilbon: I can't eat calimari, but I am enjoying the food...And I shouldn't be eating all that barbeque either, but when did that stop me!!!???
Anyway, the security force is quite a sight if you're from Denver or Pheonix or Ames, Iowa...But if you live in D.C. or New York, it looks fairly normal. Looks like Pennsylvania Ave. to me...I'm not being flip. I'm the wrong person to ask. I've got a colleague from Chicago who is stunned at the number of uniformed people and dogs and such...I don't even notice. I doubt anybody who lives in or comes into D.C. every day would take a second look.
Whether it's serving as a deterrent or not, I have no idea. I hope it is, but who knows. We're three days into a 16-day event, so I just keep my finger crossed we go out like we came in: peacefully and quietly.
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Washington DC:
Just a comment for your editors - I'm personally a lot more interested in hearing about handball/judo/table tennis etc. than the US basketball team. For instance, I was fascinated by team handball this weekend - I'd love to hear more about the sport, which teams are favored to medal, etc.
On the weekend edition of the Today show, they basically mocked the top US table tennis competitor - what's up with that? I saw that guy play this weekend, and I have no doubt that he works incredibly hard to get where he is - he deserves just as much respect as anyone else on the American Olympic Team. Certainly, he is a lot more talented and athletic than the Today host that was "dissing" him. With all of the stories this weekend from Athens, the best Today could do was make fun of a dedicated athlete?
Michael Wilbon: You, my friend, are rare. When a favored U.S. fencer who is quite a good story lost the other day, nobody hollered. When the U.S. basketball team lost it created an international sensation. People like you with interests that don't always run along the mainstream have to go the extra length to find the news and features they want...in this case it means hitting the internet and finding what you want. Those who want tidbits of the other stuff, and healthy diets of swimming, track & field, basketball, gymnastics...can get it in abundance right here.
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West Lafayette, IN:
I'm still 100 percent behind this USA Basketball team, just because they're my team, even with all their flaws.
My question is, do you think they even CAN win the gold? I mean, are they in the running?
Michael Wilbon: Yes, they can win the gold medal.
Will they? I have my doubts. Puerto Rico isn't as good as Argentina, as Lithuania, as Serbia & Montenegro...It's going to be hard. We'll know something, I suspect, of their real medal chances Tuesday night after the game against Greece. If they can't win that game, they're done.
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Arlington, VA:
What event are you looking most forward to haven't had a chance to catch yet? I'm betting you aren't a big water polo guy.
Michael Wilbon: No, I'm not big on water polo. I've seen it, enjoyed it, but I'm not going to lay awake tonight dreaming of the moment I reach the water polo venue...You have to remember, this is my 6th Summer Olympics (in addition to three Winter Olymipcs). I've seen everything by now. I live for the great moments, not a particular sport...It's the stories I crave...
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Alexandria, VA:
How could you possibly say that our Olympic basketball team's pathetic performance is NOT about Shaquille O'Neal, Kevin Garnett, Jason Kidd, Tracy McGrady, et al refusing to play? The 1992 Dream Team had 5 of 5 All-NBA first-team players and 4 of 5 All-NBA second-team players. The 1996 Dream Team had 4 of 5 All-NBA first-team players, 4 of 5 second-team All-NBA players, and 4 of 5 third-team All-NBA players. The 2000 Olympic Team had 3 of 5 All-NBA first-team players, but only 2 players who were second- or third-team All-NBA. The 2004 Nightmare Team has only 1 player (Tim Duncan) who deserves to be in the Olympics (at least this year). The problem is not just lack of outside shooting, but lack of top players. The 2004 Nightmare Team would not be able to win the NBA championship, let alone the Olympics.
Michael Wilbon: Then who's fault is it that Shaq played twice for the USA (1994 World Championships and 1996 Olympics) decided not to come. Puerto Rico is to fault for that? Who is more important to his country, Shaq or Peja Stojakovic? Which team is more capable of sending in a quality sub? Garnett and Kidd played in 2000 and the U.S. beat Lithuania by 2...HELLO! Two points. Lithuania missed a three-pointer at the end that would have won the game WITH GARNETT AND KIDD AND A HEALTHY ALONZO MOURNING. How long you gonna whine about this?
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Tell us more...:
Your descriptions of Athens are wonderful and your joy at being there contagious.
I'd love to know some of the thoughts that have gone through your mind when you have seen the Acropolis each morning...
Michael Wilbon: There's no sight in America like The Acropolis, like the Parthenon.
I've been to 48 of the 50 states (no Maine, no Alaska)and I've seen Mt. Rushmore and find it to be completely consuming. But there's nothing in America that's 2,500 years old that just sits there for an entire city to see every night.
There's a channel here on the TV in The Post's workspace in the Main Press Center, and it just has The Acropolis on 24 hours a day. We've taken to calling it, "The Acropolis Channel." I turn around and look at it 100 times a day, from the time the sun it straight over it until twilight until the lights come on around 8:30 that make it look like an ancient spaceship about to take off...Best thing mine eyes have ever seen.
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Wash., D.C.:
Apart from flying to Athens and getting one of the free tickets they'll be handing out soon, is there any way to see the "fringe" (and I use the term with distaste) sports like fencing and shooting on television?
Also, what's your take on "sports" (and I use the term with derision) like ballroom dancing and, I hear, chess, being Olympic events? Is there a limit?
Thanks
Michael Wilbon: You gotta check your local listings for TV stuff...We have no idea what NBC is showing there. We don't even have an NBC feed here.
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Owings Mills, MD:
Hey Michael,
Since you have had the magnificent opportunity to attend many Olympics, which one was your favorite and why?
Thanks!
Michael Wilbon: Barcelona in 1992 because it's a fabulous city that agrees with my lifestyle (dine late, party every night, wake up late, work late) and I was single and 33 years old and loved every single second of it. Clubs didn't open until midnight if that. A nap around 3 in the afternoon didn't hurt, either. The Spaniards just have a way about them. They know exactly the way they want to live...Didn't want to leave...Albertville, in the French Alps, was good in '92 as well. Athens is making a bid to surpass Albertville, but nothing will ever surpass Barcelona in my lifetime, not in terms of sports. Sydney was wonderful, too. It was the easiest to cover.
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Washington, DC:
Do they get WGN in Athens? I hope you didn't have to watch the Cub bullpen blow another one yesterday. I knew it was over when the Cubs were picked to win it all this year back in April, but it's still killing me.
Michael Wilbon: The Cubs disgust me. No WGN, but I've got internet and an angry brother in Chicago who calls every day with something agonizing to tell me. The Cubs have ruined my summer. AND THEY HAVEN'T EVEN REALLY CHOKED YET. But it's coming, trust me.
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Linden, N.J.:
Dear Mike, With the exception of Tim Duncan who played great and should not be ashamed, how do the other USA basketball team members feel about the way they played? From listening to the post-game comments, it sounds as though they are not as concerned about the loss as they should be. They feel they can still win a medal but I feel if they continue to play like this, they may have ample opportunity to sightsee in Greece without winning any medals. Am I right? How do you see it?
Michael Wilbon: They're concerned. They're crushed, trust me. I know half of those guys...Carmelo, Jefferson, Duncan, A.I. They're crushed...Doesn't mean they can overcome it, though. I'm crushed and angry when I three-putt No. 17. But that doesn't mean I'm going to tape in on 18, now does it? Sometimes, you're not good enough. That's what I fear about these guys.
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Chicago, Ill.:
As I watched the Olympics this weekend, specifically gymnastics, it seemed as though the seats were empty. In Atlanta, you couldn't get a seat for gymnastics. Are there lots of seats available to these games? Is Athens disappointed with the turnout?
Michael Wilbon: Athens is coming off a huge summer holiday, perhaps the equivalent of Thanksgiving weekend...Let's give it a chance and see what happens tonight, tomorrow and Wednesday...The turnout so far has been not good, with the exception of men's basketball and weightlifting, which the Greeks adore.
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Silver Spring, Md.:
Dr. Wilbon,
Wouldn't you say that the world has been improving in hoops since the 1988 loss in Seoul? I know that USA Basketball is lamenting the team that was assembled this year, but instead of looking at the NBA experience of the Team USA, why isn't the NBA looking at the collegiate experience this team has? LeBron--no college, Amare--no college, Stephon Marbury--two years, AI--two years, Anthony--one year. The strip mining of collegiate talent doesn't even allow our players to get to a World University tournament while in college. This team is one big man and two shooters away from being competitive, much less win the whole thing.
Michael Wilbon: Very well said. Thanks
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Puerto Rico's Victory:
Mike:
Every morning I read your column on my way to work in the metro system. As a native born, raised and educated in Puerto Rico, you 'll probably know how excited with the convincing victory last night....For about 1 1/2 hours I was on the edge of my seat (when PR was opening a comanding lead until the end). I am in my mid 30's I've been following sports throughout my life and I 've seeing how many times my island have been beaten time after time by the US team; hating every time olympic competition came (from Bob Knigth's fiasco in 1979 til now)to see PR and US in the same competing pool.
My hat's to you for a great analysis of the game. Finally somebody spoke with sense. While I am on the edge of my seat with extreme excitment, I hated to hear Bud Collins not giving any credit to my "Ricans". All the bla, bla he said was that US was playing bad...Usually bad comes from the ooposite team playing well. Finally, right around the end of the third quarter, when he realized that the the chances of the US team where slipping away, then he made a few positive comments.
Againg, excellent column.
Tony Román
Michael Wilbon: Thank you Tony, and congratulations on the big victory of The Games so far.
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Downtown DC:
Hello Mike - I hope your having a good time in Greece, wish I was there.
I have to agree and disagree with your column today - first disagreement - I don't think the reason the B-ball team lost was because of poor shooting, but rather a lack of intensity on defense. In the fourth when they had the run, they played some of the best defense of the last few weeks. That set up easy baskets and it going. While they're not the best "team" they still have what it takes to get it done.
To agree - the US basketball system is horrible at fundamentals. I've never seen so many big guys get out rebounded and give up easy second chances to smaller guys. No one boxes out and no one can shhot. They don't understand how to attack the zone which is mindboggling, and can't swicth on defense.
My question is - how do correct it?
thanks,
greg
Michael Wilbon: DEFENSE? The U.S. scored 25 points the first half!
That's defense?
They've gone from 117 points a game in 1996 to 81 points a game with this team. That ain't defense.
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Michael Wilbon: Sorry I don't have more time but I've got to write another column on the U.S men's basketball situation and try and see a little swimming tonight. Thanks for coming to the Chat House with so many different questions...Hope we do this again later this week or early next week. Mike
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washingtonpost.com:
Thanks for joining us for this discussion. Please be sure to log back on to washingtonpost.com for more live discussion with Post sportswriters and Olympic athletes live from Athens.
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