Post Magazine: Everlasting Love
With Peter Perl
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, February 09, 2004; 1:00 p.m ET
For 50 years, Lois Blumfield and Allan Berger have been husband and
wife. In that time, they've learned a thing or two about what it takes to
keep a marriage vibrant.
The Post's Peter Perl was online Monday, Feb. 9 at 1 p.m. ET to field questions and comments about the article about the couple's life together. He was joined by Dr. Allan Berger.
Perl is a Magazine staff writer.
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Welcome. This is Peter Perl and Allan Berger and we welcome you to today's chat. We already have some questions and comments waiting to be answered,and we will try to get to everyone. Hope you enjoy our discussion on a refreshingly upbeat topic: Love.
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Arlington, Va.:
I just wanted to thank you for the perfect Valentine's Day article! It made my eyes tear up as I hugged my husband of just four years, and it made me appreciate how my parents (married 34 years), have stuck together through their own personal tragedies. To me, the Bergers story - a growing family, loss, health issues and plenty of humor - represents what younger couples like my husband and I strive for. Forget roses and chocolate, I want 46 more years of laughing with my husband on Valentine's Day. washingtonpost.com:
Tough Love (Post, Feb. 8)
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: ABEE GZUNT! (Yiddish for "May you be in good health.")...May it be so for you and your loved ones. Thank you for your lovely note.
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Alexandria, Va.:
I just wanted to say how touching I found the article. Dr. Berger, I've been happily married only 2 1/2 years, so I find your 50 years quite inspiring. Quite naturally the illnesses you and your wife suffered, and loss of your son were devestating. I must ask though, did you find that it was the events themselves, or the aftermath of those life-altering events that was harder on your marriage? Did you find you had to "get to know" each other again? Thank you for your insight and inspiring story. washingtonpost.com:
Tough Love (Post, Feb. 8)
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: "ABEE GZUNT!" (This is Yiddish for "May you be in good health.") May it be so for you and your loved ones. Thank you for your lovely note.
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Kensington, Md.:
Thank you for the story. To Dr. Berger: in your view, what are the qualities that you believe are the most important in making a marriage last. Not just "to last" but to last in a way that really keep love alive.
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: Keep your perspective...Most of what we get steamed up about is of scant importance. And often, we can't remember what it was that so incensed us at the time. To quote Benjamin Franklin: "Be to her failings a little blind; be to her virtues, very kind." (And hopefully your partner will reciprocate your charity.)
Peter: I must add my two cents in getting to know the Bergers. I think that the willingness to really communicate about things that bug you, and most importantly, the addition of a touch of humor, are crucial qualities in a relationship staying not just alive, but lively.
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Alexandria, Va.:
Dr. Berger,
I literally fell off my kitchen chair yesterday when reading the article about your wonderful marriage. Gary was a wonderful, dear friend to me during school - and I often think of our times together before he became ill. If its not too much trouble, I'd love to bounce an email or two and catch up. I never knew where his grave is, and I'd like to place a few stones. Regards; and congratz on a terrific article. p.s. Always enjoyed the hospitality and kindness from you and your wife. - Alan
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: Thank you for your kind message. I am delighted to hear from you. For security reasons, it's best that you contact me by e-mailing Mr. Perl at perlp@washpost.com and he can put you in touch with me. Again I look forward to being in touch.
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Rockville, Md.:
Hi Dr. Berger,
I was friends with Jonathan at E. Brooke Lee. While I never had the pleasure of meeting you, I got a kick out of Jonathan telling us of your smoking cigars while playing tennis. I did meet Mrs. Berger though, and thought she was a terrific lady. I remember when we would come over, she would go to the store and bring back bags and bags of chips, cookies, and sodas. We would leave the house happy, bloated, and caffeinated.
I appreciate the article; as one who is married, I learned much from it.
Please give my regards to Mrs. Berger and Jonathan (does he still play chess?)
Best wishes
Ajit
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: Dear Ajit, Thanks very much for writing. Delighted to hear from you. I know Jonathan would be thrilled to hear from you. For security reasons, you could contact him through Peter Perl at perlp@washpost.com. He'd love to catch up with you, and I will send your best wishes to Mrs. Berger. Again thanks for your kind comments.
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Silver Spring, Md.:
This is not a question, but we want to express our
appreciation to the author for capturing the
humanness (if that's a word) of this special
couple.
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Peter: Thank you very much. It was very refreshing and uplifting for me personally to research and write this story. I had done preliminary interviews with 4 or 5 other couples before I selected the Bergers because they seemed to have that "humanness" or humanity of which you spoke. Glad you enjoyed it, as I did.
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Minneapolis, Minn.:
Hello, Dr. Berger, and congratulations to you and your wife on what sounds like a wonderful partnership.
I write to you as a divorced man, age 41, who has experienced some of the joys of marriage but also the heartache of being at serious crosspurposes with my spouse when difficulties arose. I've found that the use of the word "communication" in the many articles written about making love last, etc. is far too imprecise when applied to the situation I mention, and that it takes much more than an ability to express yourself to each other, but rather a broad range of emotional skills that the word "communication" cannot fairly embody. I wonder if you could mention (in a few words, obviously) some of the things you have found to be the key to overcoming the negative emotional spiral that seems to afflict so many relationships today.
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan:
Dear Minneapolis: The art is long, and life is short. Too short to let rage, fury, resentment, and stubbornness blind us to the beauty of one another, and life's spirit, harmony, and our place in this totality of being.
Translation: Stay cool and don't sweat it.
Peter: Now you know why I chose the Bergers! Where else can you get advice like that??
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Northern Virginia:
Mr. Perl, thank you for an uplifting article that made my whole Sunday. Dr. Berger, you and your wife's story is heartening and touching, and a guide for all of us. My husband and I have been married for only 13 months, but our parents and grandparents are all still married (or were married until they passed). Your wonderful love story has provided me with more insight into and more appreciation for their long-lasting relationships.
Dr. Berger, can you give a newlywed some words of wisdom for the future? Thanks.
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan:
Dear Northern Virginia: see the above answer to Minneapolis.
In addition: To paraphrase and liberally interpret Shakespeare's wedding toast in "The Tempest," "I wish you quiet days; fair issue; long life; and love as is today on the morrow and the morrow and the morrow..."
Peter: The beauty of having a chat with Allan Berger is that you get guys like Ben Franklin and Will Shakespeare thrown in for free!!
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Washington, D.C.:
My parents are nearing their 50th anniversary. I wish they were as happy as you are, but they are not. They have had their share of problems, but no more than yours. They just act unhappy much of the time.
I wonder what to do or how to help them (if that is even possible).
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: How sweet of you to be concerned about your parents' strife. Just their knowing that you love them and that you care and that you do not take sides means a great deal to them. Your conveying these sentiments to them will not take away their pain, and certainly won't solve their problems, but I feel sure will ease their path.
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Silver Spring, Md.:
It was so wonderful to read about Dr. and Mrs. Berger's 50 year marriage. It was also so nice to see the photos of their life together.
As former patients of Dr. Berger it is a reminder that who we are is reflected in our whole life. My husband and myself wish Dr. Berger and his wife many more years together and good health to enjoy those years. They do seem to know how to enjoy life together.
Only one question--Dr. Berger are you retired or do you still see patients? Your compassion, understanding and sound adivce were so important to both of us. We continue to think of you and refer to your counsel often.
Sandy & Morty
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan:
Dear Sandy & Morty: Thanks so much for taking the time to write. I remember you both well. I am still in practice--actually, I am just beginning to get the hang of it. Warm greetings and thanks again for writing. Please say hello to your nice daughter for me.
Peter: I don't know if Allan is taking any more new patients, but I think a psychiatrist with a great sense of humor is a cure for at least some ailments.
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Herndon, Va.:
Hello! I have known Lois and Allan Berger almost my entire life (age 48) as they were friends of my parents. Mr. Perl, your manuscript captures their relationship so beautifully. The warmth they exude and the love and caring they have for each other and seemingly all mankind typifies what the viewer sees in the marvelous picture on page 21. My husband (of twenty years) and I strive daily to handle life's "challenges" with similar behavior and wisdom. Togetherness and dependence upon each other need not be a threat, as it is viewed by some. Love to both Lois and Allan!
Mr. Perl, can you say a little more about how you chose the title for your article? Thanks.
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: Thanks for writing and expressing those kind sentiments.
Peter: Interesting you should ask about the title. In newspapers and magazines, writers write and editors edit. Editors make decisions on headlines and titles--with input from reporters. In this case, "Tough Love" was not my personal first choice, but the editors were trying to convey the enduring quality that makes love last.
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Anchorage, Alaska:
I really loved this story. I've been married almost 20 years and as I move beyond the home as the kids leave, it's a rocky time. It's re-defining who we each are, almost like when the kids first came. Did you find any particular times of life, apart from your loss of your child, more difficult than others?
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: The loss of a child is an abomination of nature. Most commonly, it's war or an accident. By far, in my opinion, it is an ultimate agony. The noted philosopher, Viktor Frankl, wrote of life's tragic trinity from which no one escapes: guilt,pain,and death. But it is the death of a child that overshadows all the rest.
As far as adjusting to the children's departure, remember that it is because of your good parenting that they are able to fly from the nest. Just as they continue to mean everything to you, so it is with them. Stay close in every way you can--and pray for babies. It is likely that they are acquainted with the requisite technology.
Peter: I am in my 50s, and after 30 years of marriage and an "empty nest" I heartily concur with Allan's perspective--and his presciption.
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McLean, Va.:
My sweetheart of 34 years and I enjoyed the story very much. I am also lucky enough to be married to a man who makes me laugh, and I think that helps a lot, especially in remembering what really matters. My question for Dr. Berger is whether his training was a help (or a hindrance) in his family relationships? Does the doctor heal himself?
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: I think that medical training and the exposure to pain, suffering, and death has made me more appreciative of health, beauty, and all that life has to offer. To quote Keats's "Ode to a Grecian Urn,": "Beauty is truth; truth is beauty; that is all ye know and all ye need to know." This appreciation need not be confined to Grecian urns.
I don't know that also being a psychiatrist helps, but it certainly doesn't hurt.
Peter: Just to add a small point: in observing the Bergers together over a period of weeks in various settings, it was not immediately evident that Allan was, in fact, a doc or a psychiatrist, so he does not "use" his training in any visible or heavy handed fashion. Otherwise, I imagine it would have gotten pretty annoying for Mrs. Berger.
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Washington, D.C.:
Very nice article. Peter, do you feel your profile of the Bergers appealing to the public because their story is extraordinary, or is it because they are normal people who have perserved together in an extraordinary way?
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Peter: Thanks very much. I think what appeals about a story like this is the very point you are getting at: that ordinary people can also be extraordinary and accomplish something that is ordinary and yet appears extraordinary in a social context. Thanks for reading--and writing.
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Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: Confucius, liberally interpreted, once said: The Ordinary Person stands in awe of the extraordinary (volcanoes, tsunamis, hurricanes and the like); the Extraordinary Person stands in awe of the ordinary. (the birth of a baby, the laughter of a child, the blooming flower, the sunrise and the sunset...)
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Silver Spring, Md.:
How come Dr. Berger has joined the chat, rather than Mrs. Berger?
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: Mrs. Berger is in Tucson at a gem convention, writing an article on the current state of the pearl market. If she was here, I'm sure that she would appreciate your missing her.
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Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: By the way, I miss her too.
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Baltimore, Md.:
I enjoyed reading the article. Congratulations on building such a wonderful marriage--until 120! The institution of marriage is so different today from when you were married 50 years ago. What do you think of these changes? Do you think your marriage would have lasted 50 years if you were first getting married today? Do us Generation X- and Y-ers have a chance?
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: Thank you for a most interesting question. I think it is harder to make a go of marriage now than it used to be. Because of the more hectic pace in communication (TV, computers, e-mail, spam); more disturbing distractions (provocative advertisements bombard us along with the television "wasteland"); more effective methods for anonymous mass slaughter; partial dissolution of the nuclear family, etc. etc.
But witherall, you can make it! Remember, your partner is the most important person in the world.
Peter: I can't help but agree, from a perspective a few decades behind Allan. I see for my sons, who are in their 20s, a society in which probably half their contemporaries are already products of divorce and do not have very healthy role models for making their own marriages work well. But I concur with Dr. Berger's conclusion.
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Ft Washington, Md.:
Dr Berger did you work for consult for the children and staff at Takoma Park Day Care Center in early 1970. I loved your love story. I was also an extremely good teacher in North Carolina because I learned so much from you as I supervised the center. My best to you and to Mrs. Berger but having known you, I am not surprised, that you would have a 50 year love story.
Catherine
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan:
Dear Catherine: What a joy to hear from you! I have fond memories of my work at your day-care center and your warm compassion for the children. It is sweet of you to remember. And I hope that life goes well for you. Thanks again for your kind words.
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Manassas Va:
My husband and I met in a Yahoo Chat room in 2001. We married last March. I love him very much and look forward to each and every day that we have together. We get on each other's nerves at times which I am sure that happens in alot of marriages. What is the secret to a very long successful marriage? I think I know, communication? compassion? Honest? We will have our first child hopefully by the end of the year and I truly want to spend the rest of my life making this man happy. He is a wonderful provider with a big heart and lots of compassion.
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan:
It sounds like you are off on a good track. I don't know if I can add much more advice to what I have said above. You and your husband are participating in a miracle--the soon-to-be birth of your first child. I am sure that his/her growth and development will give you joy and contribute to your own growth as loving humans.
Peter: To add my two cents, I also think that this is an important time in marriage--in the excitement and novelty of parenting--not to forget that the primary and most significant relationship remains the one with your mate.
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Waldorf, Md.:
I just finished reading your story and I loved it...I will be celebrating my 24th wedding anniversary in April and sure hope that my marriage makes it to 50 years like yours. Thanks for sharing your story. And PS. I love your humor!!
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: Thank you so much for writing. As for the humor, I can only admire your discerning judgement.
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North Carolina:
What a great story!
What inspiration/knowledge, if any, did you take
from your parents' and grandparents' marriage?
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: My grandparents struggled to come to America to survive, to put bread on the table, and to give their children a better life than it was their fortune to endure. My parents came to America as youngsters and the new language, acculturation, and obtaining an education dominated their lives. They also were both devoted parents. Their spirit lives within me and my children. Such is tangible eternity.
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Northern Virginia:
Dr. Berger,
Could you say something about how you would advise an adult who is the only "child" of a living senior citizen who was repeatedly abusive to. The now deceased spouse? Communication has had to be terminated because the elder relative was so abusive tow. every fx member, including children. We know it is important to "honor thy father", but would you agree that sometimes lines are crossed and the situation lies outside that boundary. Do you know of a good book to read regarding this topic? All the family members seem to side with the abuser - expecting the grown son to "make nice."
Thank you.
(May not be especially relevant to today's topic; altho' perhaps Dr. Berger can offer his widsom)
Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan:
Dear N. Virginia: Albert Camus said "To understand all is to forgive all." That is a tall order, and hard to buy. But it's worth an effort. Perhaps you can maintain communication with father by the now-scantily used snail mail. A few words devoid of incitement or argument might put oil on troubled waters and--if not bringing some comfort to what sounds like a tortured father--at least give you some peace of mind. You are a thoughtful person.
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Peter Perl and Dr. Allan Berger: Allan: Thank you all for reading the article and for sharing your thoughts and reflections with Peter and me. I agree with the writer who said that Peter captured Lois's and my essence. It reminds me of a comment I once made about my sons when a friend said that they looked like me. I told him: You're absolutely right...They look more like me than I look like myself...and I use their picture to shave by.
Peter: Thanks everyone for your questions and comments. Hope you enjoyed the story as much as I enjoyed doing it.
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