Pop Talk
With David Segal
Washington Post Music Critic
Wednesday, July 14, 2004; Noon ET
David Segal has been the pop music critic at The Washington Post for
over a
quarter of a decade.
He began at The Post, lo those many years ago,
as an
editor at Book World, then moved to the Business section to work as a
reporter. He covered antitrust issues, believe it or not. This has
nothing
to do with rock, but whatever. He hails from Rhode Island and lives
in D.C.
He wrote this bio, using the third person.
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
David Segal: Good day, all y'alls.
I read a bio of Devo over the weekend, so we're going to be shooting off some Devo-related trivia questions.
First up: Before Devo released its debut album in 1978, if memory serves, two members of the band were summoned to Jamaica by Virgin label mogul Richard Branson. While everyone in the room got incredibly stoned, Branson informed the lads that a very famous lead singer of a very famous band --then recently defunct -- was in the room next door. And he wanted to join the band.
Devo laughed. And they were never sure if it was a joke or not, but they scooted out of that room and left the island without ever meeting this character.
Who was he?
Once that's answered, I've got more questions.
Other topics: Have you ever gone back to listen to an album you loved as a kid and found the thing ...bad. Or just far lamer than you could believe? Let's talk about our biggest disappointments.
Mine is the Jam. Yes, the Jam. I loved 'em as a youth. Now songs like "Down in the Tube Station at Midnight" and "To Be Someone" seem kind of silly. Plus, Paul Weller had this really pedantic streak that I totally missed.
Anyone let you down, in hindsight?
Let's go...
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McLean, Va.:
To quote the (almost) great Hall & Oates, "Say It Isn't So!" You're giving up the best beat on the paper. Please make sure your replacement is capable of incorporating pithy, way cool chats in their work load. You'll be missed.
Enjoy, to quote the (truly) great Marshall Crenshaw, "Rockin' Around in NYC."
David Segal: Thanks much.
The caller refers to my sort-of imminent departure from the pop critic beat. By September, I'll be in NYC to write about Whatever for the Style section. I am, as the kids say, stoked.
But moving off the pop beat is a big bummer and I'm really going to miss it. And miss these chats.
But enough of that, you say. Dave, you say -- can I call you Dave? -- what does this change mean for me, the consumer of pop writing in the Washington Post? Enough about you. You're soooo July 2004. What happens in September and every month after that?
Glad you asked, people. We're looking for a replacement. If you know anyone interested, let 'em know. We've got a welter of superb applicants but the more the merrier.
What are we looking for? This isn't a typical pop job, in the sense that a lengthy list of concert and album reviews will land you the gig. Believe it or not, I'd never written a concert review before I arrived in this spot four years ago. And maybe I'd done one album review. I think. Actually, it might have been killed. What they want is less a track record in the biz than a demonstration that you can write in a variety of voices. A news voice, a distinctive critical voice, and a profile voice -- a profile voice that is never suck-uppy, preferably. And if you've got some deadline experience, even better.
By the way, I can't recommend this job enough. You work for and with incredibly bright people and they'll give you enough leash to run in just about any direction.
Interested parties can send their stuff to my attention, c/o the Washington Post, 1150 15th St., NW, 20071.
Tell 'em Large Marge sent ya.
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Norwich, Ct.:
Have you listened to the new They Might Be Giants CD yet? The initial reviews, I think, are mostly accurate: John and John aren't terribly daring on this release. Still, "Museum of Idiots" and "Broke In Two" are already stuck in my head.
David Segal: I like it. I'm amazed at how many great melodies roll off those guys. Not their gutsiest work, but I'm such a sucker for TMBG -- I've just begin to dig into this one.
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Brussels, Belgium:
David, Will here. A head's up on a one-man-band called Gisli that is getting some rotation on MTV Europe. He's Icelandic and lives in Oslo now, and his sound (or at least first song, "How About That") is a little like Weezer or maybe that one Marcy Playground song, "Sex and Candy," from awhile back. His video has cool stop-animation, and I'm all for that. Don't think there's an album yet. Website: http://www.gisli.co.uk/
I'm going to go see David Cross do standup in London in August.
Cheers
David Segal: Yo Will!
(Will and I used to play basketball every Friday night, until he moved to Brussels.)
I'll check out Gisli -- thanks for the tip.
David Cross is hilarious, especially if you want some deeply anti-Bush humor. Cross is vicious and very dark. His albums are hit and miss, but when he hits, it's pretty devastating.
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Falls Church, Va.:
Finally got to see the Washington Social Club live when they were at the 9:30 Club w/ Phantom Planet. These guys are the best band to come out of DC in a while. How can they not be on the Best Bets list, but a band like Gonzo's Nose is?
David Segal: Yes, the WSC is a nifty little outfit. I've got their album in my car and it's making me drive fast.
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Disappointments:
Primus and Tori Amos. I liked "Pork Soda" and "Little Earthquakes" at first, so I bought their next albums. After a while that stuff seemed too weird and atonal, almost like the time I tried listening to Captain Beefheart. I found my reaction to be strange, because I'm a big Zappa fan.
David Segal: I haven't been back to "Pork Soda" in a while. But I loved it when I heard it. I'll break it out after this chat.
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Annapolis, Md.:
Has or will the post covered/cover the end of Phish? Would make a helluva story (review Coventry Festival in Vermont with reflective points interjected)...
David Segal: You know, I did a big ole piece about Phish when they played Hampton a while back and we're pretty much Phished out now. But a trip to Vermont...Hmmmm....
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St. Mary's City, Md.:
John Lydon AKA Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols?
David Segal: Yes. It was in fact Mr. Johnny Rotten who was allegedly sitting in the room next door to Devo and Co. He apparently decided that he loved the band wanted to become their lead singer. It's not entirely improbable, as a tale. Devo says they'd met the Pistols in San Francisco, around the time of the Pistol's last show. And PiL, the band that Rotten later formed, is kind of in genre as Devo, in a way.
Anyway, nothing came of it, of course. The boys from Devo concluded that they were just surrounded by sharks who didn't give a fig about their band.
Next question: One of the early champions of Devo was, of all people, Neil Young. He was in very early, urged his manager to take them on (which he did, landing them a spot on Saturday Night Live) and even using them as a back up band for a few shows.
Why? Why did this folkie fall for Devo?
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Anonymous:
I'm glad you're not gone yet....
I finally had a chance to hear your This American Life segment, and thought it was one of the most powerful pieces I've ever heard on the show. Great work.
I've really enjoyed the Wednesday chats, and will miss them a lot, but best of luck to you in New York.
David Segal: Thanks much.
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No, it couldn't be . . . :
Johnny Lydon?
David Segal: You came in second.
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Rockville, Md.:
What do you think of the new Fiery Furnances album coming out? I saw them in concert and heard some of the new songs and it sounded too jumbled and stream of conscious. Also, don't leave for New York. You'll miss being Dubya's neighbor, I bet, despite the better theatre and art scene in N.Y.
David Segal: Haven't played it yet. What I've heard of the FF doesn't impress much. One of those bands whose buzz I don't get.
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David Segal: Alright, here's a hint.
The band -- Devo, that is -- is from Ohio. O-H-I-O.
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Indigo Girls:
Are do you happen to know if the Indigo Girls, Amy and Emily, are lesbians and are involved together romantically -- or ever have been?
David Segal: Uh...no idea.
Anyone got some info on this question?
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New York, NY:
In what neighborhood will you be living?
David Segal: Unclear. Got to go look for an apartment.
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Virginia:
Daaaaaave - Say it ain't so! What if the next guy doesn't like R.E.M. as much as I do? Huh? HUH?!?
David Segal: That would be a fiasco indeed.
I didn't realize I was such a REM fan, but if you say so.
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Disappointmentville:
Used to worship at the altar of Hotel California almost daily when I was a kid. Dusted off the album last year and started wondering quickly what had I been smoking. With the exception of the Walsh and Meisner tunes, it just sounded tremendouly dated and cliched. Maybe Mojo Nixon was right, Don Henley must die.
David Segal: Ha! Good choice. But I've got to say, reluctantly, that Joe Walsh's solo at the end of "HC" still works for me. When he did it in concert a while back I was still moved by it, against all odds.
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Trivia:
Does it have something to do with them being from Kent
State and him writing "Ohio" while with CSNY?
David Segal: Exactly.
There were several members of Devo who were actually all but in the middle of the Kent State shootings. One member, I think it was Jerry, was standing about 15 feet from the woman who was killed that day.
So Neil Young knew this and it motivated him to get in touch with the band. Without Young, it certainly would have taken Devo a lot longer to get famous.
Question 3: Well, someone already answered this one, even though I've yet to ask it. But I'll ask it anyway -- Neil Young saw a phrase written in ink on a diaper that Devo member Mark Mothersbaugh was wearing during one of the shows the group did with Young. What was that phrase? Young used it as the title of an album.
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Not an album, but a song...:
The first 45 single I ever bought was "Cherish" by the Association when I was around 10-12 years old. I was infatuated with that song and sang it all the time....
Now, I must say, that I think that song is pretty creepy and is, itself, about an infatuation and a really sicko one at that. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the band, all 2 dozen or whatever of them, has been arrested for stalking!
David Segal: That's a creepy one. I've got to confess though, that I'm a sucker for "Never My Love." Great melody. Same creepy chorus of men's voices.
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You're moving to NYC???:
I can't believe that I am losing one more person to that damn city! What has NYC got that I don't?
David Segal: Midtown gravy?
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Washington, D.C.:
Dave,
Did you see that GBV will be doing their farewell tour, which includes a final DC data at 9:30 on 9/11. Ominous date, but I'm afraid I'll have to go.
I've always treated each show as a possible final show anyway, figuring Bob could keel over at any moment.
This will certainly be the end of an era - a last chance to see one of rock's great excentrics.
David Segal: Indeed. I'm not too busted up about GBV's demise, though. The band has always been Pollard and he can't stop writing songs if he wanted to, which he doesn't. The group, to the extent that it was a group -- the membership changed so often that there's a sprawling family tree of it somewhere on the Web -- had a great run.
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Self Indulgent Jam?:
Went to see Sting on Friday at Nissan Pavillion. At one point he went on a 10-minute jam on Roxanne that got very tedious after about the first 5 minutes. He did this on one other song, too. Why do rock musicians feel the need to do this? Are they just killing time or do they really feel they are making some sort of artistic statement?
David Segal: I'm in the camp that hopes that artists don't play their ancient hits the same way they always have. I figure that if I want to hear the 2 and a half minute version of "Roxanne" then I can scoop out that CD and give it a listen. I heard Sting's 10 minute version of "Rox" at the Warner a few months back, and I've got to say it had the crowd in a tizzy.
Anyway, for younger artists, a good long jam is sometimes a sort of Concert Helper, in the Hamburger Helper sense of making a little bit go a lot further. But Sting doesn't lack material. He does that because he thinks the fans want it.
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Alexandria, VA:
DEVO was a great band. Still the best concert I ever saw was the "Freedom of Choice" tour.
David Segal: Never had the pleasure, sorry to say.
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Columbia, Maryland:
Dave, on artistic let-downs I'd have to go with Mary-Chapin Carpenter. About 10 years ago I listened to all her stuff. Tried it again recently and was surprised to find most of it to be weepy, slow and self-aggrandizing.
David Segal: Gutsy choice, as she is a local gal, I do believe.
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Bethesda, Md.:
Does this mean you're not doing the jewish rock museum anymore? Say it isn't so!
David Segal: It aint so. The J Hall is being planned now, and progress is excellent. More on that when there's news to share. But rest assured, we're going to do it right.
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Gone Lame:
David--10,000 Maniacs, "In My Tribe." Listening to their recent 2-disc "Best of" collection, it came clear to me that Peter Asher's production style, while more clear than their earlier work, was still hopelessly in debt to the synth-pop stylings of the 1980s. While there's still compelling work there, it just doesn't SOUND all that great anymore!
David Segal: Amazing how production can date a product. Which gets us to Devo. Brian Eno produced the band's first album and it sounds positively timeless. The next album was produced by someone else (Eno hated working with Devo, as it happens) and even though the songs for albums No. 1 and 2 were written at the same time, No. 2 is absolutely a period piece. I don't know what Eno does but the music he produces doesn't seem to age.
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Disappointing Re-Visits:
Dude, I grew up in the 70's. So not only does almost everything sound worse now, we have to relive it all the time at weddings and dentists's offices and such.
I was at a wedding out west this weekend and heard (of course) YMCA, Sweet Home Alabama (pretty funny seeing the bride sing along with no idea what most of the lyrics meant), Old Time Rock 'n' Roll, and all the other cliches. Enough already!
David Segal: You have a rough weekend, dude. "Old Time Rock and Roll" is just dreadful to my ears.
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Arlington Virginia:
Answers to Indigo Questions:
Yes, and no.
David Segal: I can't see the original question, but perhaps this answers it.
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They way they talk about you:
"for over a quarter of a decade" ?? makes the math fuzzy. you said about 4 years, how about "almost half a decade".
David Segal: Yes, I should update that. I've been the rock critic here for nearly half a decade. I wrote that two years ago.
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Frying Pan Jack:
What is this bio of DEVO you read? I've been thinking of them a lot recently. They were my first concert (Freedom of Choice Tour, Orpheum in Boston) They had the best videos to open the show and had a wierd bunch of characters surrounding them that faded out: Boogie Boy, General Boy (Mr. Mothersbach if I remember.) Loved the spuds!
David Segal: "Are We Not Men? We Are Devo!" by Jade Dellinger and David Giffels.
Recommended. Focuses heavily on the band's first 5 years, which is the juicy part of the tale. The rest is decline.
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Washington, D.C.:
Dave,
On the Jam - the stuff I loved as a kidnow seems kind of dated and full of tiresome British classism. Yet, the stuff I hated then, the Jam's neo-motown now sounds great. That's Entertainment is still a great song, innit?
David Segal: I can take "TE" much more than their earlier, stripped down mod stuff. "Town Called Malice" also works for me. But remember "Smithers-Jones," the symphonic ballad from "Setting Sons"? How patronizing can you get? Hey, sorry Paul, but not everybody can be a rock star for a living. Some people have to have what they call "regular jobs." And not all of them should be pitied for it.
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Arlington, VA:
How about the other way around? My two favorite albums for a long time were REM's "Murmur" and the English Beat's "Special Beat Service." I listened to them for the first time in ages not too long ago and was impressed by how good they still are.
The music sounds a little "thin" by today's production standards, but you can imagine how great the albums would be if they were recorded today.
On the other hand, I'm embarrassed for having liked George Michael so much. His current pretensions are ridiculous given that he was just a good pop act and not an artiste.
David Segal: I love both those albums.
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Adams Morgan, Washington, D.C.:
So what's the big summer indie album this year. Last year I had Long Winters, New Pornographers, and Pernice Brothers on heavy rotation. This year, nothing has popped up. Suggestions?
Also, is the Secret Machines show tomorrow going to sell out?
David Segal: Couple options.
I really like this freaky album by TV on the Radio. Totally impossible to describe because these guys -- a trio, from Brooklyn -- have clearly gone out of their way to create a sound that is unique. It's got a little barbershop quartet in it, and some Pixies, I swear. Anyway, great stuff.
Also, the Loretta Lynn album, I think, qualifies. Jack White produced it, in case you didn't read any of the 1300 articles about it.
The Franz Ferdinand album is really fun, too. Band is better live, but still.
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On Chapin:
Me again. Now that you've scared me by reminding me that she's local, I do have to say in fairness that several of her tunes held up v. well("Head on Over to The Twist and Shout", "You Win Again", "Middle Ground") but some others I had earlier loved had not aged well to my ears.
David Segal: No backtracking!
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Failed the test of time:
I find that my Shaun Cassidy albums just don't stand up the way they did when I was 10 years old. Sad.
David Segal: Heh heh. I love it. Remember that guy -- he was huge!
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Devo Diaper:
Was it "Harvest Moon?" Heh.
David Segal: Nope.
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Rock Vegas:
have you read that book that was written by the dude that was in semisonic? or at least heard if its worth reading?
David Segal: I have read it and it's very good. Esp if you want to get a sense of what the music biz is like from the inside. Author does an excellent job of laying out the whole contract issue, which can sound complicated but isn't when he describes it.
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Logan Circle, DC:
Well, the Xanadu soundtrack is not quite what it was when I was a 5th grade girl! I was pretty sad (yet not surprised) to realize this when I bought it a couple years ago, inspired by the multiple references Dave Eggers makes to it in AHWOSG.
Also, have you ever really listened to the lyrics of any Duran Duran song? What on earth are they talking about? There are bad song lyrics and then there's just gibberish -in the case of Duran Duran, I now realize that the lyrics to practically every song make almost no sense (somehow as a teen this didn't faze me).
David Segal: This reminds me, I heard the Cars "Let's Go," the other day and it contained this doozy.
"She's so beautiful now she doesn't wear her shoes."
What the HELL does that mean? Is there a point at which a woman attains such appeal that she just abandons her footwear?
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Winchester Va:
Mannnnnnnn! What a bummer! But good for you. Will that old "revisionist" Joe Heim get the job? Seems like the Post stays in house (which is cool payback) and he seems to have it together pretty well. About "revisionist",, sometimes it seems to me that you guys are just too young to understand the context of the music in the 60' and 70's. i.e., Seals Crofts being easy soft rock. They were cool and hot in the 70's. Same crowd would listen to Aerosmith. Radio was cool. So if you want a "classic" genre reviewer I'm free.
David Segal: Is this Joe? Joe, did you write this? Dude, that is shameless. Shameless!
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Uncle Tupelo Alumni:
Dave--Thanks for your review of Wilco's "A Ghost Is Born" a few weeks ago. I bought it and Jay Farrar's live album at almost the same time. I keep going back to Farrar's disc but have only played Wilco a few times. I think that Farrar's post-Tupelo career has been underappreciated, particularly in the wash of Wilco hype.
David Segal: Thanks!
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Rust Never Sleeps:
That was me, before.
On a related topic, Neil's buddies Crosby, Stills and Nash don't do much for me anymore. A lot of the old stuff sounds kind of mopey and whiny now, but back then we thought they could change the world for some reason. (Maybe because there was a Nash song that said that.)
David Segal: This is the correct answer: Rust Never Sleeps.
Mark Mothersbaugh apparently had it written on his diaper when he played with Young once and Young used it for the title of one of his most famous albums.
Ok, last one: Neil Young made a lousy movie that co-starred Devo. It was called "Human Highway." Anyone seen it? If so, give us a two sentence review.
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Alexandria, Va.:
My CD collection is riddled with bands that sounded fresh and unique at the moment but quickly dropped. I wish I was home to make a list. Off the top of my head -- Counting Crows, Crash Test Dummies, Echo and the Bunnymen (except Crocdiles), partically anything from Seattle except Nirvana (Alice in Chains especially), The Alarm, Big Country, uhh... Living Color (DEFINITELY),Red Hot Chili Peppers (got at least five cds and haven't picked one up in at least five years).
David Segal: Echo and the B Men -- way dated. How about that song "Do it Clean"? Remember that? I swear, I was running around for months singing "Do it Clean," and such choice lyrics as "its a bitsy witsa witsa I've been there, I'm clean!" without irony.
I'm so ashamed.
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Arlington, VA:
RE: NY - But, you just refurbished your apartment!
David Segal: Sniffle, sniffle....
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Norfolk, Va.:
Led Zeppelin IV: Loved it as a kid, but has absolutely no luster (save for When the Levee Breaks) anymore. This could be due to overexposure, but it is unlistenable. That goes for Sgt. Pepper's, too. It's got a couple good tunes, but can anyone imagine actually putting this in the CD changer and listening to it all the way through?
Quick note on the extended jams and not playing old standards as they sound on the album: Caught Cowboy Junkies last night and with their last song of the 2nd set they obliged the idiot who'd yelled "Sweet Jane!" all night. Thing was, it was three minutes in before you knew what they were playing and they completely rocked it.
David Segal: You've got some nerve, kid, putting down Zep and the Beatles in one paragraph. Both those albums hold up nicely for me, but I admire the sheer perversity of your choices. Apply for my job!
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Bethesda, MD:
Enjoy the Village while you're there, David!
Also - Devo returned the 'favor' to Neil, when Mark & Jim assited him in the influence and development of his 'electronic' phase (i.e "Trans", "Berlin" concert, etc.) Well, some would say its a 'favor', anyways...
David Segal: Yup, Devo was part of what led Young toward albums like "Trans." I blame Neil for that, though.
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Winchester Va:
Well, actually it is Joe, but not that one. Best job in the world it seems like. Wish I was that other Joe. I know country is a rare commodity here but those who care should check out Big and Rich and Gretchen Wilson. Red neck country that kicks ass with humor and fresh production.
David Segal: Can we say "ass"?
Guess so, Joe. Thanks for country tip.
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70's again:
That guy was right about the context being important back then. With radio formats so tightly defined these days, you would have a hard time developing eclectic taste, 'cuz you wouldn't hear anything unusual to your eatrs.
Christgau said it (paraphrased here) best: "Seals and Crofts are good at what they do, but what they do is so heinous that being good at it only compounds the offense."
David Segal: That's an excellent line, albeit from one of the rock journalism's great blowhards.
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Dupont Circle, D.C.:
Do you think Patti Smith is as "out there" as she appears during her interviews and performances, or is it just a persona? There's something oddly intriguing yet off-putting about her spectacles.
David Segal: I think Ms. Smith is pretty out there. But I also find her pretty dull, particularly when she starts in with her political lectures. When she rocks, however, she's a marvel.
Ok, on that not very sparkling note, I must take my leave. Thanks for playing our game, thanks for sending your thoughts. Now, everyone skip work and head to a pool for a swim.
See you in the deep end.
I've got a chat or two left, I think.
Rock on, bad selves.
David
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