Central Intelligence Agency
Ronald Kessler
Author
Thursday, August 12, 2004; Noon ET
President Bush nominated Republican congressman, Rep. Porter J. Goss of Florida, to head the Central Intelligence Agency. Goss has been a leading contender for the job since the resignation of George J. Tenet in July.
Ronald Kessler, author of "Inside the CIA," was online to discuss President Bush's decision to name Rep. Porter J. Goss as head of the agency.
The transcript follows.
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over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Vienna, Va.:
Hi Ron. In an editorial yesterday, The New York Times criticized the nomination of Porter Goss as CIA director at this point in time, saying there was no reason why Acting Director McLaughlin shouldn't stay at the helm until the election. What is your view of McLaughlin, and does the Times have a point here?
Ronald Kessler: John McLaughlin is a respected intelligence analyst, but I think the CIA needs someone with the ability to schmooze people on Capital Hill and enhance its credibility. Goss is respected within the intelligence community and will therefore get the support of CIA employees. That is very important and the fact that he understands intelligence is very important.
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Columbia, S.C.:
Before Tenet, the CIA Director served at the pleasure of the President. Is there a possibility that Goss, a politicized nominee, could be appointed and then fired after a Kerry win?
Ronald Kessler: Sure, normally CIA directors are replaced when a new president comes in.
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Arlington, Va.:
Do you think the proposal for a new Super Intelligence czar gives Bush some cover for nominating such a partisan figure for CIA, the argument being, the future non-partisan intelligence czar will provide the necessary filter?
Ronald Kessler: I don’t think that you would make that leap unless Bush tried to make the point which he hasn’t. Goss I think has shown that he is objective about intelligence, despite the fact that he is a politician.
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Basking Ridge, N.J.:
In reality, how much does the DCI get involved in the nitty-gritty of running the CIA and how much is done by career Intel experts who are a level or two below him/her?
Thanks
Ronald Kessler: Actually Buzzy Krongard, the executive director of the CIA, runs the agency on a daily basis. He is a former investment banker and a very good manager, but the director of central intelligence makes overall policy and reports every morning to the president with the latest intelligence. What people don’t understand and the 9/11 Commission really didn’t point out, is that Bush essentially is the CEO of the war on terror. Meeting every morning with the director of Central Intelligence and the director of the FBI, he provides support, focus and applies pressure for them to do better. You just can’t buy support like that. In contrast, Bill Clinton almost never met with his FBI or CIA directors.
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Alexandria, Va.:
Do you think it is appropriate to appoint a DCI who is so obviously partisan -- note his past attacks on John Kerry? Also, is there a belief that the CIA will be given more “leeway” in clandestine operations and in dealing with suspected terrorists, detainees, prisoners, etc? Assuming Bush stays in office, I would suspect Mr. Goss’ past views and clandestine service experience would amount to rather hard-line tactics.
Ronald Kessler: Everybody appointed to a government position has a past on one side or another on the issues. If you appoint a lawyer, he either defended or prosecuted people in the past. Goss’ experience is a plus and doesn’t mean that he would take a more hard line position. In his oversight role he is aware of all the pitfalls in the intelligence business and therefore I think will bring a balanced view to the job.
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Cupertino, Calif.:
I've just read the Howard Kurtz article about how the Washington Post underplayed skeptical reports about WMDs. It seemed like just a case of "we don't want to go there." Now the Democrats seem to have a similar attitude, of not wanting to fight this nomination. From what you're hearing, do you think the media will help bring a deeper discussion to the front pages this time, or is the appointment a foregone conclusion?
washingtonpost.com:
The Post on WMDs: An Inside Story, (Post, Aug. 12)
Ronald Kessler: The Washington Post story today I think overplayed the significance of what the paper did or did not know about WMDs at the time. Nothing was solid and therefore the stories did not deserve frontpage play. The fact is we still don’t know the answers. Stockpiles still could be found and David Kay, the weapons inspector, reported finding dozens of additional weapons programs and activities – not stockpiles – since the war. In addition, Saddam’s generals said after the war that they thought that they were supposed to use chemical weapons during the war. So to say that The Post somehow new many of the answers before the war is stretching things.
Nothing is a foregone conclusion, but the combination of Goss’ experience and his acceptance by other members of congress I think means that he will be confirmed.
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Berkeley, Calif.:
Apparently, in an interview with M.Moore's crew Goss said, "I couldn't get a job with CIA today. I am not qualified. I don't have the language skills... I don't have the cultural background probably, And I certainly don't have the technical skills, uh, as my children remind me every day: 'Dad you got to get better on your computer.' Uh, so, the things that you need to have, I don't have."
Why shouldn't those statements end the discussion?
Ronald Kessler: To be FBI director for example, you don’t need to be good at target practice or know how to handcuff people. In the past many CIA directors such as John Deutch and Stansfield Turner had no experience in intelligence. The fact that Goss was a case officer and conducted oversight is a big plus.
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Albuquerque, N.M.:
In the recent nonfiction book "A Pretext for War,"
James Bamford notes at length that the Central
Intelligence Agency procedurally avoids infiltration of
terrorist organizations with agents it recruits and
trains, opting instead for hiring likely candidates to
deliver them information second-hand.
First, is this largely true, and second, has anyone
made any statements about changing this practice?
Ronald Kessler: The way intelligence works is that CIA officers try to recruit agents or assets in the country or organization that is the target. Those agents are the ones who have the information and of course are accepted and have the language skills necessary. The fact is that the CIA did recruit some low level al Qaeda operatives before 9/11 but did not have anyone in bin Laden’s inner circle. Bin Laden on one of his video tapes said that very few people in his organization knew about the plot. So how do you penetrate an organization like that? It takes years of trying to develop agents, and that requires support from the president and the resources to do the job. During the Clinton administration the CIA’s clandestine service was cut by about 25 percent and a risk adverse politically correct atmosphere was imposed on the agency. What Bush has done is provide support, make it clear that risks must be taken and provide the resources necessary to do the job.
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Harrisburg, Pa.:
We have read the spin from both sides. Either CIA employees are exhuberant because "one of their own" has been named to lead them, or CIA employees are upset that a person so critical of them may be in charge. Of course, with so many employees, both sentiments could exist. What do you believe is the prevalant mood within the CIA regarding the possibility that Porter Goss may be their boss?
Ronald Kessler: Some are a little troubled by the fact that Goss occasionally has made unfair criticism of the agency, but overall I think the employees are positive about him because his overall record shows that he understands intelligence and that he will make changes that are responsible.
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Vienna, Va.:
Assuming Goss gets confirmed in mid-September and Kerry wins in November and wants to appoint his own DCI (very likely in my view) will Goss be the shortest tenured DCI in history?
Wasn't one of CIA employees big complaints pre-Tenet the high turnover of Directors?
Ronald Kessler: Well that is certainly a good point but right now it is necessary to symbolize the importance of the CIA by making sure that it has a director.
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Los Angeles, Calif.:
Ron, hello.
On Wednesday, Dan Froomkin wrote of the Goss/CIA nomination: "It put Democrats in a bind. The consensus of today's press coverage is that they will cave on the Goss nomination rather than risk being blamed -- just before the November elections -- for undermining the CIA while the nation is under threat of terrorist attacks."
I ask (and if I were a Democrat, I would ask): If this is such a sensitive time, and the need for Goss is so great, what took Bush so long to pick someone? And, is the CIA so utterly lacking right now (and for months since Tenet left) that the nation is under grave danger right now?
What would Bush say to that? What would you say to that?
Thank you.
Ronald Kessler: First of all the 9/11 Commission largely ignored the improvements that have been made since 9/11 by the CIA and the FBI. Largely because of those improvements we are much safer now and in fact have not been attacked in almost 3 years due to a large extent to those efforts. So the 9/11 Commission’s posturing that something terrible will suddenly happen if their recommendations will not be adopted just as they have presented them is in my opinion rather arrogant. The idea that a new director should be chosen overnight or that changes have to be made in a great rush is exactly the opposite of the approach that we should be taking. Given the improvements and the bottom line success of the war on terror changes should be made with great care, otherwise we will make things worse and I think imposing an intelligence director on top of the current structure will simply add another layer of bureaucracy. What makes the war on terror so effective is the president’s daily direction. He in effect is the intelligence czar.
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Norfolk, Va.:
Doesn't Mr Goss simply represent "more of the same" in terms of leadership at CIA? After all,the essential criticisms underlying all the recent churn about intelligence processes in the US remain unaddressed. Do you think Mr Goss' appointment simply represents a political bandaid, to stem the bleeding until more definitive action occurs?
Ronald Kessler: No.
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Lyme, Conn.:
If Porter Goss is replaced as CIA Director, does he intend to return to politics: perhaps even seek to win his Congressional seat back? I haven't read if he's been asked this. To me, this is important, as it indicates whether he consider his political career as a fallback to his administrative career. If this is the case, might it indicate that he will be keeping more attuned to the politics of his actions than if he has decided not to return to politics?
Ronald Kessler: I think it would be unfair to ask any prospective government official what he plans to do next, assuming he even knows the answer. What is important is the person’s track record and I think he has shown himself a thoughtful and objective person in this field.
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Munich, Germany:
Although it's not supposed to be a political appointment, how does Goss fit in politically with Bush's inner circle - compared to Rice, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Powell?
Was Goss a supporter of the Iraq war?
Ronald Kessler: Certainly the vast majority of the members of Congress supported the Iraq war and most of those members say they would still support it despite the fact that weapons of mass destruction have not been found.
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Washington D.C.:
I really enjoyed your book "Inside the CIA", and have tremendous respect for you. I am responding to a comment you made earlier about President Bush acting as the CEO on the "war on terror." If Bush is meeting daily with his intelligence directors then shouldn't the intelligence failures reflect him as well and on a much larger, accountable scale? George Tennet shouldn't have been the scape-goat, especially since Mueller is still sitting in his job. I respect Goss but wonder if he can and will stand up to the President? I beleive neither the executive branch nor the congressional branch should being running the intelligence community, oversee yes-run NO! What are your thoughts? You are an amazing man.
Ronald Kessler: Thank you. Having had a successful political career I don’t think Porter Goss is going to be pushed around by anyone. To try and find a scapegoat for the failures of intelligence ignores what really happened. All of the world’s intelligence services believed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction: he had them before, he used them, he did not account for them, he was hiding things and we now find from David Kay’s report that he was engaged in ongoing weapons programs. As I mentioned, Saddam’s generals themselves thought he had weapons of mass destruction, so to say that one person is at fault in this situation is simplistic and unfair.
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New York, N.Y.:
Could you offer your opinion on Bob Woodward's quote from his book "Plan of Attack" of George Tenet saying evidence of WMD in Iraq was a "slam dunk." Was Tenet guilty of "politicizing" the intelligence, or do you think it was an honest misjudgment?
Ronald Kessler: Tenet’s comment accurately reflected the CIA’s public conclusions. I previously addressed the issue of how the intelligence was to some extent wrong.
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Ronald Kessler: Thank you all for the good questions, and I hope you read “A Matter of Character: Inside the White House of George W. Bush” to learn more about what really goes on in this business.
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