Dan Peres Editor in Chief, "Details" Magazine Wednesday, August 20, 2003; 11:30 a.m. ET
The term "metrosexual" is making the rounds. It started in England in the mid-1990s and made its way to the U.S. via an ad agency survey which used it to describe a new kind of male: one who takes care of himself -- pampers himself -- and is not ashamed of getting facials, buying grooming products and shopping. These young men hold the secrets to tomorrow's consumer trends. Madison Ave. is after them. They hold the key: they spend the money. Dan Peres, editor in chief of "Details," was online Wednesday, Aug. 20 at 11:30 a.m. ET, to define the metrosexual and explain why The New York Times calls his magazine a "kind of metrosexual bible." A transcript follows.
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washingtonpost.com: The discussion is being delayed a bit, possibly due to the blackout situation in New York City. We hope to hear from Dan Peres and we're waiting. Thank you.
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washingtonpost.com: It looks like we won't be doing the discussion today. We apologize. It will be rescheduled so please check our Live Online schedule for next week. Thank you.
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Dan Peres: Hello. My name is Dan Peres and I'm the editor of Details. Over the last couple of weeks a new word has arisen and for a number of reasons the magazine which I edit has been consistently linked to this word. The word is "metrosexual." I don't know that I can define metrosexual any better than you but I'd love nothing more than to discuss its meaning and the changing definition of masculinity with you.
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washingtonpost.com: Dan Peres, welcome to washingtonpost.com. We're seeing the term "metrosexual" in a lot of places lately. First off, what is a metrosexual? And is this a marketing term to classify people or is it actually used by everyday people?
Dan Peres: It's certainly not used by everyday people, at least not for the moment.
What does it mean? Good question. From my vantage point a metrosexual is a straight, urban-based man who is extremely comfortable and passionate about pursuing his interests in things like design, architecture, fashion, dining, grooming. The sorts of things that just a few years ago the same man would have been labeled a "sissy" for doing.
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Washington, D.C.: I've seen David Beckham and Brad Pitt referred to as metrosexual icons. Who are other fashion role models for metrosexuals?
Dan Peres: I think if we use the sort of cult of celebrity as our barometer, there are a lot of men that fit the definition: Johnny Depp, Jude Law, Ewan McGregor, just to name a few.
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Northfield, Minn.: I believe I may be a metrosexual, even though I live in a small college town. Is there any simple test I can take to know for sure?
Dan Peres: You might well be a metrosexual, despite living in Minnesota. There's no test because there's no real clear definition. Referring back to an earlier question, the term "metrosexual" is largely a marketing tool, but if you feel comfortable and confident with your own taste and sense of style, then yes, you may well be a metrosexual. The one sure way to know is if you can't see your reflection in a mirror (kidding). Of course, there's no test.
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Richmond, Va.: You should not feel you need to answer this if it is too personal, but are you a metrosexual? Have you have ever had any metrosexual feelings or exeriences?
Dan Peres: Let's be clear about this new word that because a fragment has "sexual" in it, I think some people are overanalyzing what is quite truly a very simple idea. I'm not beating around the bush. I will answer your question, just give me a second.
You can't have a metrosexual experience the way you can have a homosexual experience because being a metrosexual has nothing to do with your libido. It is a term assigned to heterosexual men. Heterosexual men who no longer fit the alpha male description. I like to think that I'm a neo-alpha male. I believe that the idea of the chest-pounding, flannel-wearing, axe-swinging, lug of a guy no longer accurately represents the idea of masculinity. And so as a result, sure, I'm a metrosexual if that means that I have equal interest in how the Knicks are doing and what the new art installation is going to be at the gallery around the corner. It's more a matter of aesthetics than sexuality. So in essence, you really haven't asked a personal question.
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Rochester, N.Y.: My husband's style owes more to Oscar Madison than Oscar de la Renta. How can I get him to adopt a bit of the "metrosexual" ethos into his daily grooming and wardrobe routine?
Dan Peres: Well, it certainly sounds like you have a challenge before you. In fact, knowing Oscar de a Renta, you've chosen as an example perhaps the most elegant and dashing man working in fashion today. While Oscar Madison certainly has his benefits, we all could use a little polish now and again. That said, one thing that horrifies straight men is when their spouse, girlfriend, mother, gay friends thrust fashion tips at them. The thing about personal style -- in this case, your husband's personal style -- is that it's a quite literal term.
It's his own style, so start with the clothing he likes but just get it from a more stylish designer so the idea of khakis and a sweatshirt doesn't necessarily mean that the khakis need to be Gap and the sweatshirt Banana Republic. You can get similar versions of that outfit that won't appear fashiony from any number of designer labels. That way your husband is wearing what he's used to wearing and still feels like it's his own personal style. Because if you come home from the mall one day with a pair of skintight pants and a silk Versace shirt, he's probably going to look at you like you're a freak. So be patient and move slowly with him.
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Hillsdale, Mich.: You mentioned that this term has just emerged onto the public consciousness in the past few weeks. What would you point to as the cause for this? Would you say that "Gay Eye," the Lawrence decision, and other gay rights issues are thrusting this gay friendly lifestyle into the spotlight?
In short... why now?
Dan Peres: I'm glad you brought up "Queer Eye." This show, which I have never seen but hear about constantly from friends and family, speaks to the contrary of metrosexuality. A metrosexual, in theory, doesn't need five gay men telling him what is stylish and what isn't. So this show, while popular, has nothing to do with metrosexuality, in my opinion anyway.
Why now? There's been a noticeable shift in the way the media covers men. Men's magazines -- not including ones like Maxim and Stuff that really just objectify women and pass along bathroom humor -- but ones like Details and others have started to approach men differently. In my case, as the editor of Details, I have been editing this magazine for men -- not straight, not gay, but just men -- since I took over three years ago. When I started in my job media critics were tripping all over themselves to be the first to call Details a gay magazine, as if a magazine can be gay. Now, threee years later, they're saying that Details is right on the money in terms of talking to the contemporary man. So it's ironic that the New York Times referred to Details as a "bible for metrosexuals" when only months earlier the same "liberal media" seemed terrible homophobic.
What this word has done is made it easier for people to look at straight men who possess what have traditionally been gay interests without prejudice. So the word has become popular recently because the trend of the straight man being refined has finally caught on.
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Washington, D.C.: I can see why Details could be considered a manual for the metrosexual, but this is D.C. -- a place where young-to-middle-aged men (our elected officials) have been getting themselves facials, manicures, and $70 haircuts for years ... Isn't John Kerry, with his perfect coif and leather motorcycle jacket the original metrosexual?
Dan Peres: You know, I don't know that John Kerry is the original metrosexual but he certainly fits the description. D.C. particularly right now is an extremely conservative place and whenever I'm in town I see a lot of men dressing the way the president and/or congressional leaders do: dark suits, white shirts, red or patterned ties. And while the term metrosexual -- or any term with the word "sexual" attached to it would probably make most Republicans break out in hives, I don't feel that D.C. is a hotbed of metrosexuality. Perhaps it will be if Mr. Kerry is able to win an election, which, for the record, would be a miracle.
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Harrisburg, Pa.: Arnold Schwarzenegger has been described as a metrosexual. In your opinion, is he? And does this help or hurt him? And does the public understand what this term is: it sounds so much like whispering that Maria Shriver was a thespian before she went into broadcasting.
Dan Peres: I don't think the public fully understands what the word means. I'm not sure I fully understand what the word means. But it's certainly not anything that can hurt anybody. In fact, it would be rather shrewd of Schwarzenegger to touch on this word because all it really does is say that he's a man who is extremely comfortable and confident in his own skin.
Think about the perfect guy. The one your mother has always wanted you to bring home (assuming you're a woman). He's sensitive. He's smart. He can quote Thoreau. He can cook French food. He knows the difference between a daisy and a daffodil and the difference between a Monet and a Manet. This is a metrosexual. It doesn't have anything to do with getting pedicures. I've never had a pedicure or a manicure in my entire life. Metrosexuality is in simple terms, just a word used to define an evolution in masculinity. Men are no longer belching up their breakfasts while reading the sports pages and ignoring the women that are around them. That guy is long gone. Or at least he should be.
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Washington, D.C.: So, is there a comparable term for women who are comfortable with their masculine side? You know, those who don't get manicures or facials, who don't wear tons of make-up or short skirts, who like to play and watch sports . . . but who are straight?
Dan Peres: Not that I know of but I'm sure a handful of advertising executives are hard at work as we speak trying to whip up a name for the woman you've just described.
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Washington, D.C.: What an exciting column! Finally, someone understands! My boyfriend is a Metrosexual, and may I say, they are the best sort of boyfriends -- just lovely! But don't forget, in your definition, to include a fascination with cooking -- cookbooks, kitchen utensils, spices, herbs, exotic wines and cheeses, etc., etc. Williams Sonoma is a Metrosexual's paradise! My boyfriend trades recipes with his Metrosexual friends far more often than I trade beauty tips with my girlfriends!
Dan Peres: I think that's great for both you and your boyfriend and I hope he's reading Details. And if you scroll back up and look at an earlier part of this discussion I did mention cooking, so you should be thrilled to be in a relationship with a metrosexual.
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Arlington, Va.: Sounds like many American males have transformed themseleves into women. Who are these people? None of my friends would dream of getting a facial or 'pampering' ourselves.
Dan Peres: It depends on who you're listening to when it comes to the definition of this word. I'm not here to shamelessly plug my magazine because we do extremely well anyway, but if you look at a copy of Details, you will not see service pieces on male facials, body hair trimming or cuticle treatment. That's not what metrosexuality is. Like I said, the idea behind the show, "Queer Eye," is exactly the opposite of what we're talking about right now. Metrosexuality is a state of mind. It represents the ability to express enthusiasm in things that would previously be considered feminine, like cooking, like fashion design. It's not about men turning themselves into women. It's about men developing their own sense of style and not being scared that their buddy is gonna look at him and call him a fairy.
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Alexandria, Va.: Why metrosexual? There is already a perfectly accurate word in the English language for a man who cares for himself in this way. The term gentleman applies here, even though it has fallen out of use. Appending the suffix 'sexual' implies something other than what is going on, and will make some men resist adopting these otherwise positive changes in lifestyle. Time to drive a stake into this newsspeak malapropism.
Dan Peres: I agree. A gentleman is precisely what we're talking about. A mensch. So I can't do anything to get rid of this word. Moreover, I can't do anything to prevent people from saying that Details magazine represents who the metrosexual man is. In the end, however, you're absolutely right.
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Washington, DC: What are some things an early middle-aged metrosexual would never wear to the office?
Dan Peres: A baseball cap. Aside from that, it's not about what you wear, it's about how you feel while you're wearing it. Women should not run out and buy their men entirely new wardrobes so they can fit this metrosexual definition. In my opinion the sexiest thing about the way a man dresses has very little to do with what he's actually wearing. It has everything to do with how confident he is in the way he looks and feels in his clothes. Right now, I'm wearing a pair of Levi's, a button-down shirt from Prada and a pair of $3 flip-flops that I bought at a gas station. So I may have a closet full of the finest and most expensive clothing and even if I were to run home right now and put on a Helmut Lang suit I'd feel exactly the same way I do right now.
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Oklahoma City, Okla.: I am married to a metrosexual. Except I tend to use the phrase "evolved" instead...
Dan Peres: I think "evolved" is the perfect word. Metrosexual is just a word to define a man who has evolved.
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Dress Pants Question: Pleats or flat-front?
Dan Peres: Either one. Flat-front seems to be more popular at the moment but if you look back through history both pleated and flat-front pants have been around for ages. Both are acceptable. Neither one nor the other makes any significant statement about you.
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Alexandria, Va.: You mention the "perfect guy"....I consider the perfect guy to have the right combination of sensitivity and masculinity. (I really don't want a man who is more effeminate that I am.)...Does the metrosexual typically like sports or have other traditionally masculine attributes as well?
Dan Peres: Of course he does. It's not a matter of becoming feminine. Let's be clear about this. This word -- metrosexual -- has nothing to do with sexuality. So, let's assume for the sake of this discussion that I'm a metrosexual. I like sports, I love women, I am extremely inteested in architecture and design and other aesthetic types of things, but at the end of the day I'm just a guy who can balance an interest in basebal with an interest in Balzac. So this "perfect guy" -- which I'm not claiming to be, mind you -- can still sweep you off your feet and carry you across the threshold. He can still chop wood for the fireplace. He can still play touch football with his buddies on Thanksgiving. It's just that these aren't the only things that define him. He can also sit through the foreign film with you. He can also enjoy a trip to the museum. He can also match his own shirt and tie combination. There's nothing more to it. It's just a better kind of man, in my opinion. And voila.
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Dan Peres: I wish I had more time to chat with all of you about what has clearly become an interesting subject. As a journalist and magazine editor, I'm on deadline with the October issue of Details and have to get back to focusing on work. I will say that words come and go. Think of yuppie. Think of grunge. Metrosexual may or may not be the type of word that is out of the lexicon in a couple of months. If you want to better understand who this man is, what his interests are, then I hate to say it, but buy Details. My voice is in it from the first page to the last every month.
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washingtonpost.com: That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.
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