With Ronald L. Kessler, Barbara Leibovitz, Jaime Hellman Author and Filmmakers Thursday, July 24, 2003; 11:00 a.m. ET
National Geographic's new PBS special "The FBI" goes into the heart of the Federal Bureau of Investigation for a behind-the-scenes look at its complicated history, its top special agents and its most vital operation today -- stopping terrorism. With unparalleled access to Director Robert Mueller, the Bureau's special agents and its team of profilers, cameras capture never-seen-before footage and bear witness to the war on terrorism as it unfolds in real-time. Author Ronald L. Kessler and producers Barbara Leibovitz and Jaime Hellman were online Thursday, July 24 at 11 a.m. ET, to discuss the new special and the FBI. A former journalist for the Boston Herald, Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post, Kessler has authored several books about the FBI and CIA, including original and updated versions of "The FBI: Inside the World's Most Powerful Law Enforcement Agency," "The Bureau: The Secret History of the FBI" and "Inside the CIA: Revealing the Secrets of the World's Most Powerful Spy Agency." Hellman and Leibovitz have written, directed, produced and shot award-winning documentaries for such networks as PBS, Discovery Channel, TLC, CNN, TBS and The History Channel. Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
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Philadelphia, Pa.: Mr. Kessler. Do you believe the antiquated computers really hindered the Bureau's ability to 'connect the dots' prior to September 11 and not act quickly enough following the events? Do you think Director Mueller has been successful in overhauling the computer systems?
Ronald L. Kessler, Barbara Leibovitz, Jaime Hellman: Kessler: The important thing was to connect the dots and do much more wide ranging investigation before 9/11 and without adequate computers it is very difficult to do that. Mueller a week before 9/11 took over and ordered thousands of new Dell computers and that tells you a lot about his attitude for the need for new technology.
Leibovitz: When we were filming we witnessed him meeting with top computer consultants that were going to help - computer updates are part of his regular schedule.
Hellman: I think computers is only one of the problems before 9/11. There were a number of leadership issues under Freeh that made it difficult to have the Bureau prepared for what happened on 9/11.
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Washington, D.C.: How did you get such exclusive access to the FBI? Don't many media organizations ask for it all the time? What makes your access special?
Ronald L. Kessler, Barbara Leibovitz, Jaime Hellman: Leibovitz: We have spent many years with the FBI. This did not happen overnight, it took a long time and a lot of trust on both parties
Hellman: A few years back we did a documentary called "Quantico: The Making of an FBI Agent." We were the first documentary crew allowed to follow an FBI class all the way through training. The piece served two masters - CNN was happy with the piece and the FBI was happy. When we reproached the FBI this time we had a good track record plus the cache of the National Geographic name. They new they would get a fair and balanced story about them. Barbara and I did not want to do a propaganda piece
Leibovitz: We should also note that the FBI did not have any editorial control. They could screen the film for security issues, but gave us no changes.
Hellman: It was a risk for them.
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Washington, D.C.: Mr. Kessler, I'm amazed that J.Edgar Hoover served as Director of the FBI for 48 years and was actually celebrated and given a hero's send off when he died. We are continually learning new, surprising, shocking things about Mr. Hoover. What do you think took so long for the information to get to the public? By the way, I plan to buy your book after watching the incredible documentary last night.
Ronald L. Kessler, Barbara Leibovitz, Jaime Hellman: Kessler: Hoover was very good at secreting what he was doing as far as illegal wiretaps and improper surveillance. Also the press in those days tended to be rather passive to say the least. But to this day there is still some Hoover worshipers -- mainly retired FBI agents -- who can't stand to hear any criticism of Hoover. One more thing -- today the media has gone in the opposite direction and can't seem to find anything that the Bureau does right and I think it takes courage on the part of these producers to tell the truth about the real FBI in a balanced way.
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Washington, D.C.: How do you think Director Mueller's administration compares to prior administrations? Is he less/more effective?
Ronald L. Kessler, Barbara Leibovitz, Jaime Hellman: Kessler: There is simply no comparison. People don't understand how important the director is in terms of whether the FBI does a good or a bad job. Under Louis Freeh the FBI lurched from one debacle to another - Wen Ho Lee, the laboratory problems, the McVeigh documents problem, and the Robert Hanssen case. They were all traceable in some way to Freeh's management decisions. Mueller has rectified Freeh's mistakes and turned the Bureau into an agency focused on preventing terrorist attacks.
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Washington, D.C.: A fascinating program! I'm amazed at the access you received to the FBI. I have a lot of respect for Director Mueller -- especially after watching the program. I'm amazed that he was sworn in just days before September 11 and had to quickly shift gears and redefine the FBI.
How do you think the FBI is handling its role in combating terrorism today?
Ronald L. Kessler, Barbara Leibovitz, Jaime Hellman: Kessler: I think the FBI is doing a super job now. We have seen the results in terms of arrests of suspects who actually were plotting terrorist acts such as bring down the Brooklyn Bridge. There is more emphasis on prevention, on analysis and on penetrating al Qaeda. But we can never assume that we won't be attacked again. There is no foolproof way of stopping all terrorism.
Leibovitz: I think there is evidence in our film, in Director Mueller's parting words "It was a good day because there were no crises," that this is their concern on a daily basis - preventing the next terrorist attack.
Hellman: I think the Bureau realized too that the eyes of the nation is on them and they have a heavy responsibility. I think most of the people in the Bureau understand this and most are up to the challenge.
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Philadelphia, Pa.: The more I hear about former director Freeh, the more it seems that he was a complete disaster as FBI director: not focusing on al Qaeda, deputies tainted by Ruby Ridge, selling out to Ken Starr. How has Freeh managed to avoid much criticism?
Ronald L. Kessler, Barbara Leibovitz, Jaime Hellman: Kessler: Very good question. During Freeh's tenure he managed to manipulate the press and Congress by leaking items that burnished his own image. Now that he is gone people are focused on the current director and have forgotten that he really, in my opinion, decimated the FBI during his 8 year tenure.
Hellman: We asked former director Freeh to be in the documentary over a dozen times to get his perspective and opinion. Each time we were met with silence.
Leibovitz: Basically he didn't agree to be in the film. We tried to interview him.
Hellman: No press has been able to interview him. The only time I have seen him is when he was subpoenaed before congress.
Kessler: One other note, I think that tells you a lot about Freeh's real interest in the FBI or lack thereof.
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Dallas, Tex.: Do you think the FBI has finally learned from all of its mistakes (mismanagement, cutting important jobs in the name of bureaucracy, old technology) and will be seen in a new light by the public?
Ronald L. Kessler, Barbara Leibovitz, Jaime Hellman: Kessler: Yes, I think under Mueller the FBI is on the right track. There are still some pockets of resistance to change in terms of emphasizing prevention of terrorism, but overall there is no comparison with the way the Bureau was before Mueller took over. At the same time, the press' treatment of the FBI has remained very critical so I think it is difficult for the public to understand the sea change that has taken place
Hellman: Also, unlike in Hoover's time, there is a great deal of Congressional oversight of the FBI. I think Senators Leahy, Grassley and others are doing a tremendous job in keeping the FBI accountable for its actions - especially during the current controversy of the Patriot Act.
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Toledo, Ohio: Is there an increase in the FBI cooperating and sharing information back and forth with other government agencies like the CIA and the NSA in order to prevent terrorist attacks? We've heard promises that the agencies will try to work together more, but is it really happening?
Ronald L. Kessler, Barbara Leibovitz, Jaime Hellman: Leibovitz Yes. While we were in SIOC (Strategic Information Operation and Command center) - basically the nerve center of the FBI - within those walls was the joint terrorism task force. All of the different agencies were in one room
Hellman: I know that the Bureau is exchanging agents with the CIA regularly.
Leibovitz There were CIA agents in the FBI building working with them.
Kessler: Mueller and CIA Director George Tenet get along well.
Hellman: And they all have to report to the President in the morning.
Leibovitz In the film we follow Mueller to the White House to see his briefing with the President. Typically Tenet and Homeland Security Secretary Tim Ridge are present at that meeting.
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Frederick, Md.: Once upon a time (Hoover's) you had to be a white male to be in the FBI. Has the agency made progress in hiring women and minorities? It seems like people who are familiar with the Arabic languages and culture would be in demand. Great show! Wish there had been more on the science in the lab.
Ronald L. Kessler, Barbara Leibovitz, Jaime Hellman: Hellman: The Bureau has made great strides but still have a long way to go. Women and minorities are still underrepresented.
Leibovitz: I do know that they are heavily recruiting, but wherever we went in the FBI I do feel women and minorities are underrepresented
Hellman: They are doing a lot of reaching out to the Arab-American community but I think there is in some quarters some reluctance to be involved in any governmental law enforcement agency.
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Washington, D.C.: Being an FBI special agent applicant, I would be interested in seeing your Quantico film that follows a class through agent training. Where could I get/see a copy of this?
Ronald L. Kessler, Barbara Leibovitz, Jaime Hellman: Leibovitz: Good question. It is owned by CNN.
Hellman: I think if you contact CNN they would be happy to give you a copy of it.
Leibovitz: The other idea is that you could contact the press person at Quantico.
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Washington, D.C.: Having read "The Bureau," I expected a piece that was much tougher on the FBI than the show I saw last night. A few past indiscretions were mentioned but not the overwhelming ineffectiveness that was documented in the book as the net result of the scandals, poor leadership, bad IT, and espionage. Where's the beef?
Ronald L. Kessler, Barbara Leibovitz, Jaime Hellman: Kessler: I think the show focused more than my book on the current FBI which really has gotten its act together. As for the past, I think it did have the right balance.
Hellman: I can appreciate your comment. We have a huge story to tell about the FBI. It is a bureau that has affected Americans for almost a century. There are currently 11,500 agents in the field. There is only so much you can pack into an hour and still make a coherent and watchable documentary.
Leibovitz: I think our goal was to show a balanced and objective documentary.
Hellman: I think Ron's books are a wonderful source of in-depth information about the bureau. We only have 50 some odd minutes to tell the story.
Leibovitz: We believe the beef was there -- we also showed the talented agents who work at the FBI
Hellman: An important part of the FBI story as much as its history are the current agents. Many of them don't know each day if they will be coming home each night. They work hard and don't get paid a lot, but believe what they are doing. That is an important part of the story as well, just as important as their checkered past.
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Baltimore, Md.: What do you consider the FBI's finest moment? Its worst?
Ronald L. Kessler, Barbara Leibovitz, Jaime Hellman: Kessler: everyday the FBI does incredible things -- getting children back from kidnappers, developing evidence to free suspects that have already been put in jail - and to me those are the kinds of things that really demonstrate the values of the FBI and what a good organization it is. There have been many major successes as far as going after organized crime, white collar crimes , such as we saw in the Enron case, espionage, and terrorism. The Bureau stopped some 40 terrorist plots in the six years before 9/11. If your kid were kidnapped you would want the FBI on your side.
Hellman: I think people forget that the FBI was able to solve the first World Trade Center bombing rather quickly. To be sure they have not had some successful investigations - Richard Jewel being among them - but what most Americans don't know about are the thousands of successful cases they investigate each year.
Leibovitz: The low point as we show in the documentary was the Martin Luther King Jr. days and also 9/11. I think the high point is the present day.
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Ronald L. Kessler, Barbara Leibovitz, Jaime Hellman: I think we hope that we presented to Americans a deeper understanding of who the FBI is -- the good the bad and the ugly.
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