Reality TV
With Lisa de Moraes
Washington Post TV Columnist
Thursday, May 1, 2003; Noon ET

Ruben on the bottom 2? Can a 24/7 reality TV channel succeed? Andrew Firestone and Tina Fabulous: the perfect couple?

Join Washington Post TV Columnist Lisa de Moraes every Thursday at Noon ET to discuss the latest on Reality TV -- and those other shows too.

De Moraes has written the TV Column for The Post since 1998. She served as the TV editor for the entertainment industry trade publication the Hollywood Reporter for almost a decade.

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

Alexandria, Va.: Lisa-

Why oh why was Ruban in the final 2 last night on American Idol? Why wasn't Josh, who cannot sing worth a dime eliminated? Is this some sort of keep the Marine on and have him win? Josh should step up and eliminate himself -- he knows he does not belong -- no question, just venting ...

Lisa de Moraes: Hi. I am not sure that Josh has figured outthat he does not belong there, judging by the threatening comment he made about Simon when Simon came right out and said so on Tuesday. I suspect a lot of people are voting for Josh because he's a marine rather than because of his "talent." Is there Ruben backlash? Maybe so...

Reuben?: Lisa -- Do you think Ruben falling into the bottom two last night was staged? It had gotten so boring, I'm thinking the producers wanted to give people a little excitement.

Lisa de Moraes: I don't think it was staged. I think, as I said a sec ago, that lots of people are voting for Josh because he's a marine, which is what prompted Simon to remind viewers that this is supposed to be a singing competition, not a flag-waving exercise....

Metro Center: Best reality show is "24" because it occurs in "real time". I can't believe there's only three hours left

Lisa de Moraes: Only three more hours in which to kill off Spawn, who continues to be too dumb to live....

New York Ave, Washington, D.C.: Hi Lisa, The only reality TV I watch is AI and I couldn't believe it last night ... are there that many Marines out there voting? Who is voting for Josh?

Lisa de Moraes: ...zillions, apparently. Poor Simon, the look on his face when he realized that he might actually wind up stuck with Josh as the winner and have to cut a record with this stiff, talentless guy -- can't dance, can't sing, mildly threatening....

Chantilly, Va. : Lisa:

Do you think it's possible that voting results in the "Idol" show were fixed to add more suspense for the audience? Everybody knows that the Marine guy was the worst of the remaining lot, worse that the one booted out last night. To include Ruben as one of the lowest vote getters was ridiculous, but it would be no suspense to have her and the marine as the two. No question, he should have been the one voted out?

Lisa de Moraes: I'm getting swamped with questions about last night's Idol voting. Apparently you guys were as surprised as I was and, apparently, as was Simon...If Josh isn't out by next week, they've got a real problem on their hands...

Fairfax, va: So the American Idols judges were "stunned" by the results last night, but what do they expect? They ask the fans to vote for their favorites, not the best or most talented person.

If they wanted the best, they would be "Star Search" and have voting done only by industry experts.

Lisa de Moraes: I think they expect people to vote for most talented. I think that's implied...of course it's not turning out that way now...Bet they're now regretting having gotten the Marines to give Josh permission to participate. This certainly has come back to bite them in the backside...

Reality Jumped the Shark?: I think it may be possible that reality TV has jumped the shark with Mr. Personality. I'm not talking about the fact that an uptight young woman has to choose from a group of drunken men dressed like professional wrestlers. I'm talking about the fact that Monica Lewinsky appeared shocked and appalled because a man apparently received oral sex from a woman he barely knew. Is that more cruel irony than reality TV can bear?

Lisa de Moraes: Irony is so hard to find on TV these days, I really enjoyed watching Monica express horror when Skanky Lawyer Guy got serviced by Grass Skirt Girl...too bad more people didn't see it -- the show did a lousy number in its second broadcast. There's not nearly enough of Monica on this show, but what there is, is choice....

Washington, D.C.: Hi Lisa,

Any predictions about Survivor? I was totally bummed that Deena got voted off a couple of weeks ago. If Matthew goes too, I'll stop watching. They're the only two interesting characters of the bunch!

Lisa de Moraes: If that incident with the off-shore betting was not staged by CBS for publicity, it seems Matthew has a pretty good chance of winning this thing. He's so wonderfully creepy, I'm hoping he wins...and then becomes host of Reality Central -- the all-reality cable channel...

New York, N.Y.: Hi Lisa -- Can/will you answer a fictionalized reality show question? Will Without a Trace return next season? It is the only new show this season I'm actually watching every week. I think it is terrific. Sorry, I'm one of those who could do without all the current reality shows. American Idol isn't too bad, but those Mr. Personality masks ...
Thanks!

Lisa de Moraes: I am confident that "Without a Trace" will be back on CBS next season. It's doing well after "CSI" and opposite "ER." I believe it's the best retention CBS has ever had of "CSI's" audience in the Thursday 10 p.m. timeslot.

Washington, D.C.: Do you think Andrew Firestone will end up with Tina? The editors want us to think that he will choose Kirsten, but I'm hesitant to believe this after the editors made us believe that Trista would pick Charlie ...

Lisa de Moraes: Yes, the producers definitely want us to believe he will pick Kirsten, which leads me to believe he won't. The producers of this show have pulled that trick once too often -- editing to lead you down one path so that they can "surprise" you at the end. I'm praying he picks Tina Fab/Shrew because when he eventually tries to extricate himself from the relationship all hell will break loose.

Washington, D.C.: OK, so what's the deal with the new Reality TV channel? By all reports, it's going to be mostly airing reruns of existing reality shows, but I thought the big knock against reality shows is that nobody wants to watch them in syndication.

Lisa de Moraes: That is correct -- they don't repeat, which is why, mercifully, we don't see repeats of these programs. The people launching this network believe they have a financial model that can support the 15 people who are interested in seeing these programs again. But only half the lineup is going to be reruns of reality shows, they're saying. I'll believe it when I see it. They're also going to try to jazz up the reruns by hiring folks who competed on that particular show provide commentary while it's re-running. That might actually be moderately interesting in some cases...

Tina, Jen or Kirsten?: Soooo glad that old hag Cristina was kicked off last night. Is that her biological clock I hear?

Lisa de Moraes: Meowwwwww!

Glover Park, Washington, D.C.: Lisa: Any thoughts on Lewinsky's "there are rules to this game" comment on Mr. Personality when Brian took his mask off? She didn't really explain what "rule" he broke -- you can't leave when you want? Seemed contrived (huge surprise).

Lisa de Moraes: I too wonder how Monica knew about the "rules." I bet the producers knew he was going to act up and told her to squash him like a bug if he did. I have to say, I thought she did a pretty good job and I loved, loved, loved when she told the rest of the Loser Guys to stay where they were and take it like men. Our little girl certainly has grown up...

Off Shore Betting: HUH? To what do you refer?

Lisa de Moraes: Story a couple weeks ago that many offshore gambling sites that allowed people to place small-ish bets on outcome of "Survivor" all pulled that betting after discovering that some people involved with CBS had correctly bet on the last two "Survivors" -- implying that there was some insider information there. Of course it's silly to allow betting on programming where there are people who know the outcome, but these sites make you take a pledge before you place your bet that you do not know the outcome. Which is why the sites were able to pull the betting....

Forest Glen, Md.: Simon's reaction when the bottom two were announced was priceless. Gotta love live TV!

Sorry it wasn't Ruben.

Lisa de Moraes: Live TV rocks.

Baltimore, Md.: Lisa,

Did it seem as obvious to you as it was to me that Josh was clearly embarrassed that he wasn't booted last night, much less in the bottom two? Think there's any chance that he removes himself from the competition or intentionally tanks next week, lest one of the Big 3 get voted out when he knows it should be him? I wasn't that upset about Trenyce going before him -- it's clear that if Josh had gone last night, she was next anyway.

Lisa de Moraes: I do not believe that Josh was clearly embarrassed -- I think he was clearly relieved. I do not believe he knows how bad he is compared to the other competitors. No way is he going to remove himself from the competition. He may have gone into this a marine, but he's totally drunk the Kool-aid and wants to be a pop idol now...

12th Floor Metro Center: Since the President is speaking at 9 tonight, when will NBC be airing the Will and Grace episode with McCaulley Culkin?

P.S. -- I think that Josh got a little help from Roma Downey last night.

Lisa de Moraes: Believe it or not, NBC's plans are -- or were at presstime yesterday -- to run a super-sized "Friends" from 8 to whenever, followed by a "Friends" rerun, which will be interrupted for Bush's non-speech, following which NBC will air the rest of that "Friends" rerun, and then the "Will & Grace" episode with Culkin....bizarre

Arlington, Va.: So if it comes down to fey, sensitive Clay vs macho Marine boy as the final two which will America choose? That could be an interesting commentary on where we are as a culture. Or maybe not.

Lisa de Moraes: that would be thuggish marine boy, based on the comment he made about Simon on Tuesday. I wonder if Simon can break deal to sign winner to a contract if winner is Josh and he had made a threat against Simon....

She Already Called Me Pookie!: Lisa, I wuv you, but you’re doing us local Survivor nutcases a disservice.

Six of these morons remain. Two of them have D.C. connections. Unless I missed it, you haven’t reported a peep on either of them.

Strongest connection: the "cweepy" Matthew von Ertfelda, who actually lives here. No one I know has ever heard of him. I actually asked Lloyd Grove point blank about him at a party, but he said he refers all things Survivor to you.

2nd: hearing-impaired Christy, who’s a Gallaudet graduate, and who announced on national television that she had sex at the Washington Monument during 4th of July fireworks.

Other local papers report at least puff pieces on their local Survivors, yet the Post hasn’t told us diddly about these two.

Who are they, and what’s their story?!

(Meanwhile: is Rob the second coming of Richard Hatch, or just another wannabe?)

Lisa de Moraes: ...as you said, puff pieces provided by other papers.

Arlington, Va.: A few weeks ago, you had an article about the final two people that will be left on Survivor, without revealing the names for people who don't want to know, do you think that is really on the level?

Lisa de Moraes: That was the column I was speaking about, re off-shore gambling. I always treat "Survivor" spoilers with skepticism...

Dulles, Va,: Seinfeld or Cheers?

Lisa de Moraes: Not sure what this questions means, but I'll pick "Seinfeld" if you're asking which sitcom do I prefer. "Seinfeld" stands the test of time better than "Cheers."

Germantown, Md.: What gives on American Idol? No way should Ruben have been in the bottom two last night. What is more outrageous though is that Josh wasn't in the bottom two. Is there any real possibility this whole thing is rigged? Or is the voting system just not working? Maybe they should let America vote someone OFF the show instead of voting to keep someone on. Thoughts?

Lisa de Moraes: I don't think the producers or network would rig this show to end out with a guy who can't sing. Remember, Simon is stuck with the winner and has to help cut a record with that person. They don't want to get stuck with someone who is not going to sell....

Bethesda, Md.: What threat did Josh make to Simon on Am Idol?

Lisa de Moraes: He made some stupid comment, after Simon said he wasn't good enough to be in the competition at this point, to the effect that Simon was lucky the rules of the marine's don't allow him to punch him out....not those exact words, but that was the implication. It was immature and loutish.

Washington, D.C.: What do you know about the Tony Kornheiser TV show? Has it been greenlighted? Will we see prime time Tony next season?

Also, don't you think Matt Perry has been good on West Wing? He should do more drama.

Lisa de Moraes: Perry has been terrific on West Wing. Kornheiser tells me, re CBS sitcom pilot about him, that they're having trouble casting someone to play his fabulous self(my description, not Tony's)...

Washington, D.C.: And Matthew was once one of People 50 most eligible bachelors!? Must have creeped out all the women he dated?

Lisa de Moraes: So long as he stays away from knives, it might have been alright. Okay, maybe not...

Owings Mills, Md.: Did you catch the look of horror on Simon's face after Ruben and not Josh was demoted to the bottom two last night? I like how the editors juxtaposed Simon with Josh holding his head in his hands! Relax Josh, you live for one more week.

Lisa de Moraes: It really was great TV....

Derwood, Md.: I'd vote for Josh just to see Simon screwed over ...

Lisa de Moraes: Shame on you!...

Washington, D.C.: I suspect that AI might be made a little more interesting if instead of asking viewers to vote for their favorite singer they asked them to vote for their least favorite singer. I suspect that it would weed out the worst singers more quickly. On another note, I caught part of West Wing last night was a bit surprised at how well Matthew Perry fit in with the cast. I think it was the first time I've seen him in anything other than Friends. I didn't see him crack a single joke. Nice to see he has some range.

Lisa de Moraes: I hope that when "Friends" is over -- please, Lord, let it be soon -- Warner Bros. casts Perry on West Wing. That might help its sagging ratings....

Washington, D.C.: You seem to let her disgust for Kim override the fact that 24 is a thrill ride of a show. I watch way too much TV, I admit, but 24 is the one show I absolutely MUST see every week. I wish you or Paul Fahri (who seems to like the show far more than you do) would have a chat just for 24 fans, and there's a lot of us, regardless of what the stinking ratings may say.

Lisa de Moraes: I really do like the show -- I just blather about Kim the most. It's a clever, engaging program, and I applaud Fox for daring to put on a serialized drama series after seeing so many fail...

Chantilly, Va.: Remind me to check the TV Week next week. I heard Ryan say that the results would be a 1-hour, so I tuned in at 9:25 to see who got booted, and found out I had missed a new Bernie Mac!

Lisa de Moraes: This constant changing of timeperiods is really confusing. Last night the numbers went way up in second half hour and I suspect that's because a lot of people didn't realize that the results show was going to start at 8.

White House Correspondents: I saw you were on the list of people attending the dinner. Did you get to meet any of the reality "celebrities" whilst there? Any impressions?

Lisa de Moraes: Trista -- everything I hoped she'd be...baby speak and all.

Monica: She's certainly not a "little" girl.

Lisa de Moraes: hello -- kidding!

Washington, D.C.: Lisa -- I can't decide which is the all-time highlight of reality TV: the Olive Garden conversation on The Bachelor, or on Mr. Personality the guy in the mask going into the bathroom with one of the dancers, while the woman he is supposedly trying to woo is in a dark basement with a different guy. Both are classics!

Lisa de Moraes: Two moments destined for the TV Academy Hall of Shame...

You Don't Like Friends?: I think it's still the best sitcom on TV. I know that's not saying much these days, but I still enjoy it. But wouldn't want to see it hang on any longer than another season.

Lisa de Moraes: I think it's really run out of steam and I hate to see that happen to a show that I like. It's always sad when producers don't know when to call it quits....

Re: I hope that when "Friends" is over : Can't Perry be on both shows at the same time? How much prep time does he need to sleepwalk through the tired sitcom he can't seem to escape?

Lisa de Moraes: Apparently he can at least do a multiple episode story arc while still starring on "Friends." Some week's he's barely on "Friends" anyway...

Tell us more about Trista!: Whadya say to her? What did she say back?

Lisa de Moraes: Yeah, like she had anything to say to me -- a chick, who can't cast her in a TV show...Paleeze....

Washington, D.C.: So, I got picked to test for Jeopardy next month. Any hints on how to get on the show (provided I pass the test)?

Lisa de Moraes: um...eat lots of fish? I hear it really revs up the gray matter....

Washington, D.C.: What's the scoop on the Bachelor at the correspondents dinner? Was he with any of the girls?

Lisa de Moraes: If you're speaking of Firestone Man, he was there, but without any of the girls because, of course, that might spoil the suspense since the show is still playing out...Trista was there with her "bachelor," who still has that deer-caught-in-headlights thing going on.

Arlington, Va.: I thought last week's Survivor was delicious. The arrogance alliance gets its comeuppance. Too good.

Why is there a "Manor House" chat on here every day this week? Is anyone actually bothering to watch?

Lisa de Moraes: I couldn't begin to explain the workings of dotcom, re "Manor House" chats... The crumbling of the "Survivor" alliance is fun.

Alexandria, Va.: I guess everyone feels the same way I do -- I could not believe Ruben was in the bottom two last night on Idol. Josh was absolutely horrible on Tuesday night and my feeling last night was that people are voting for him out of a "sympathy" vote due to the war in Iraq. Then my husband chimes in and said Ruben won't win because he doesn't fit America's image of an American Idol (I think he was talking about his weight). I hope people truly vote for the most talented (which obviously they didn't do this week). The final three should be Kimberly, Clay and Ruben and then I'm not sure after that. It would be hard for me to choose among the three of them.

Lisa de Moraes: Please explain to your husband about Barry White and Luther Vandross....

Zora: Please tell me Evan was there with someone!

Lisa de Moraes: did not see Evan. He's so 15 minutes ago....

Reality TV lifespan : Do you think in 50 years or so, our children will look back on the reality TV genre and laugh at how ridiculously enthralled we were with all of the shows? Similar to how we might look back at many cultural events from yesteryears and question our own parents on their decisions to wear or watch certain programming?

Lisa de Moraes: You mean like how "Beverly Hillbillies" used to be the No. 1 ranked show? Yes, people in the future will laugh and scratch their heads...

The Best Sitcom on TV is: Curb Your Enthusiasm followed by The Office. Both Friends and Will and Grace have Jumped the Shark.

Lisa de Moraes: love, love, love The Office....

Simon's Future: Will Simon be on the next edition of American Idol? I don't think it would be the same without him.

Lisa de Moraes: Didn't they sign him to a multiple year, multiple million-dollar deal?

Washington, D.C.: I want Christy, the deaf woman, to win! She went to Gallaudet University here. Plus she seems so nice.

Lisa de Moraes: She seems very nice... I think her connections to Colorado are actually stronger than to D.C. although yes, she went to Gallaudet University here.

Boston, Mass.: Seems to me like "Mr. Personality" has become an out-of-control mess (as opposed to "just a mess") which is why Monica had to tell them to stop taking off their masks. Shouldn't that clue Hayley Valentine Arp that guys don't think she's a prize worth hanging around for? She is frankly horrible and selfish. What was the criteria for picking the woman -- willing to go on the show?

Lisa de Moraes: Bingo....Yes, this show has turned into one skanky frat party. it was very very odd.

Arlington, Va.: Have you watched any of Manor House? It's brilliant. That's REAL reality TV, not this crappy poo like Mr. Personality and the like. Now, I am not a total snob, but I just think you should realize that it is possible to have reality TV that doesn't have to be utter crap to be entertaining. It also had some cringe moments -- Sir John is an ass, and the tutor for the young son is a prissy, whiney jerk! And there were two servants carrying on! See, good reality TV doesn't always have to come from the Fox network.

Lisa de Moraes: Manor House is lots of fun, though I liked 1900 House better...

You need a new name ... : Your show, I mean. From your chats, you've made it clear that you're here to discuss ALL TV, not just reality TV. But from the title and the posts, it seems dedicated to the latter.

Lisa de Moraes: I know, I know......

Best on TV: Coupling. Hands down.

Lisa de Moraes: Great TV, but my vote is still cast for The Office....

McLean, Va.: Will CBS run CSI and Without a Trace after the President's speech tonight?

Lisa de Moraes: Yes, that's their plan....

24: Any predictions about who Jack tells Kim to shoot in the previews?

Lisa de Moraes: the script writer..

Not riding the Ruben train: I agree that Ruben should not have been in the bottom two last night. BUT I do think he's not all that. He does basically the same thing every week -- same singing style, same facial expressions (even when they're inappropriate given the lyrics) and doesn't move very much on stage. I thought he was outstanding the first couple weeks, but after seeing him do the same thing over and over again, I'm a little bored.

Just my two cents.

Lisa de Moraes: I agree with you. He has a terrific voice, but that pointy thing he does with his hand and his head bobbing back and forth drive me nuts. And he makes most songs sound alike, though I think he's gotten better about that the past couple weeks. But all those things can be fixed. What's hard to change is a contestant who actually cannot sing, like Josh....Josh just stomps around stage and shouts...

The Office: Is it on HBO?

Lisa de Moraes: BBC America....hope you get it on your system...

"You mean like how Beverly Hillbillies used to be the No. 1 ranked show?": Mad Magazine had a great Nielsens parody where the rating system was finally purged of all flaws. As it turned out, almost no one was watching "Happy Days" and "Laverne & Shirley." Instead, the most-watched shows were "Masterpiece Theater" and "Playhouse 90."

Lisa de Moraes: hahahaha -- yeah, right!

Chicago, Ill.: With all of this insanity going on for Mr. Personality I'm now kind of sad that I haven't watched it. Does it look like it will continue to be a mess? Maybe I'll even try to catch it next week.

Lisa de Moraes: It really is wonderful, for all the wrong reasons. That's my favorite kind of reality TV..

Forget Will & Grace -- what about ER?: Will it be going on at 10, or not? I've got plans away from home tonight, and was counting on TiVo to record it for me, but my TiVo won't get an updated schedule that reflects all of the shenanigans precipitated by Shrub's Pesudo-Speech until 3 a.m., by which point it'll be too late!

Lisa de Moraes: NBC had originally planned to do a super-sized Friends, followed by "Friends" rerun, followed by a 15 minute long "Scrubs" clip show, into "ER." If the president speaks for about 30 minutes, NBC will scrap the "Scrubs" 15-minute program, so "ER" would begin about 15 minutes late...

The Gin Game: With Mary Tyler Moore and Dick Van Dyke. Should I watch?

Lisa de Moraes: Yes, for old times sake....It's actually interesting to see the two of them together again.

Manor House: Manor House is way better than a lot of those other reality shows and trust me, I watch a lot of them.

Lisa de Moraes: I agree. It's far better than, say "Extreme Makeover," "All-American Girl," "I'm a Celebrity," "America's Most Talented Kid," "Fear Factor" -- the list goes on and on. It's a really interesting show and they cast it it perfectly, particularly that lowly boot and knife boy, or whatever he is....

Missouri: Am I the only one who can not believe that Tina is only 22? She looks older than me and I am 30. Even my very mature looking 24-year- old sister looks young next to that girl. It is called sunscreen. Know it, use it, love it.

Lisa de Moraes: Yes -- we're all 22...

Re: Manor House: Sorry, but yes some of us are watching it. By far and away the best "reality show" going.

Lisa de Moraes: I was speaking relative to other reality shows, like "American Idol" that last night clocked about 20 million viewers. PBS programs usually do cable-esque numbers. Calm down, I'm not dinging "Manor House." Honest.

Arlington, Va.: Why, oh why do we have to be subjected to a reality TV NETWORK? I do not understand.

Lisa de Moraes: Because producers/networks are hoping they can find some commercially viable domestic afterlife for these shows....

Washington, D.C.: Even if Josh wins, do they actually have to release an album? Since Simon's company has the top 10 or top 12 or whatever signed to short-term deals, can't they at least sign Clay and Ruben and promote their stuff?

Speaking of Josh, he's even a worse country singer than all of the Nashville Star final round contestants. What a big mistake to let him get through.

Lisa de Moraes: They realize that now! They can sign non-winners to deals too, like they did with Tamyra on "A1."
I see I've run out of time. Thanks for joining me....

washingtonpost.com:

That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.

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