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What's Cooking
Vegetarian Special
Hosted by Kim O'Donnel
washingtonpost.com Staff
Thursday, May 29, 2003; Noon ET
Calling all foodies! Join us for the vegetarian edition of What's Cooking, our live online culinary hour with Kim O'Donnel.
A graduate of Peter Kump's New York Cooking School, Kim spends much of her time in front of the stove or with her nose in a cookbook.
Submit your questions or commments before or during today's discussion.
Jump into the season with What's Cooking This Spring, Kim's latest video series.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Kim O'Donnel: Hello, hello, and welcome to this month's special on meat-free cooking, eating and shopping. Late May means summer is upon us, and one way to get into the groove is to visit your farm market every week. The Food section put out its annual farm market list, so no excuses! I do know that a new market has launched in Mt. Pleasant on Saturdays, and there's one due to launch on Thursdays sometime in June at Penn Quarter, for folks who work in that neighborhood. Exciting news...So, I am eager to hear what's happening in your worlds. Please send comments/questions this way.
Long Beach, Calif.:
Dear Kim, please indulge me:
I was curious as to your thoughts on the following news that has come out in major papers, including The Post, in the last month.
1. AIDS transmigrated into humans by the consumption of chimp meat in the Congo circa 1940. This is the result of a 12-year study.
2. SARS comes from eating civits, a cat-like creature in China.
3. Ninety percent of the world's large fish have been decimated.
4. Science declares chimps so genetically close to humans as to be in the genus "homo," making the eating of chimp meat to be a form of ineter-genus cannibalism.
All of these news stories point to vegetarianism as an easy way to avoid pandemics and diseases. Shouldn't our CDC be actively touting vegetarianism?
Thanks.
Kim O'Donnel: My what a can of worms(?) you have just opened, Long Beach. I can't really answer to your chimp statements. As for the world's fish supply, you may know I've had a guest online to discuss the situation and what consumers can do and still eat well...but don't forget that our president is advocating GMO crops for starving Africans. That to me is not a good way of promoting vegetarianism...and remember, moderation is really key here. If you like meat, consider it source carefully. Same thing applies to your veggies and meat-free items. We live in such a complicated world.
Columbia, Md.:
Do you or any of the chatters have recommendations on good meat substitute products? Stuff that really tastes like the real thing! Any suggestions for good products from say, Boca or Morningstar?
I've gotten products which haven't been too great.
Thanks!
Kim O'Donnel: I really like Gimme Lean sausages, and I don't mind the Boca links. Not a fan of the crumbles or the smart dogs...
Tofu Tip:
For those that like tofu, I've discovered some great stuff at Trader Joe's. It's called Tofu 2 Go and it comes packaged with marinating sauces (lemmon pepper and sesame are my favorites). It's precooked, so you can dice and toss into salads or stews, or you can saute it up and get it nice and crisp and yummy. It's really firm, so no squishy runny tofu on your plate.
Kim O'Donnel: Thanks for chiming in...you should also check out Sunergia brand flavored tofu, which is made locally, near Charlottesville...
Washington, D.C.:
Trying out the whole vegan thing recently, and don't want to give up sweets altogether, so have been making this fabulous vegan chocolate cake (you can hardly tell the difference. Really!):
Vegan Chocolate cake
1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
1 cup sugar
1/4 cup cocoa powder
1 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/3 cup vegetable oil
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
1 teaspoon distilled white vinegar
1 cup water
Directions
1. Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C). Lightly grease one 9x5 inch loaf pan.
2. Sift together the flour, sugar, cocoa, baking soda and salt. Add the oil, vanilla, vinegar and water. Mix together until smooth.
3. Pour into prepared pan and bake at 350 degrees F (175 degrees C) for 45 minutes. Remove from oven and allow to cool.
Serve with or without frosting [the other night I served it with fresh melon and kiwi]. It's great!
Kim O'Donnel: Great stuff, DC. Thanks for sharing.
Arlington, Va.:
Hello Kim --
I so appreciate your chats and am really in need of some help! A few of us have joined a CSA together -- great first week with yummy stuff -- but now I have a LOT of kale to deal with! Help! What am I do to -- beyond simply boiling it with bacon for three hours or garnish every plate in the neighborhood?
Signed, Desperate to finish my greens
Kim O'Donnel: What a wonderful problem to have, Arlington. You can roast kale in the oven with great results. I place in a pan with a spritz of oil, and a little water in bottom and let it go, at 350. Cook til tender. Some of it gets crispy. Salt and pepper. You're in business. I also love kale and white beans or garbanzos, which I've shared in past...you can rinse a can of beans, season in pan with oil, garlic, chiles, then add your kale on top, toss with tongs to coat with other ingredients, add a little water if necessary and cook til wilted. More salt, pepper.
Out West:
Hi Kim --
Recently I tried a couple techniques to make eating legumes more digestible (as in less, um, you know). I soaked black beans overnight, discarding the soaking water. Then I cooked them slowly until they were past chewable (more like tongue-able) with a couple pieces of kombu seaweed in the water. Kombu is supposed to absorb problem-causing enzymes. Overall, it worked really well. One thing especially was how less bloated I felt after eating a big plate of beans and rice. Thought the veggie crowd might appreciate this report!
Kim O'Donnel: Great to know. I like the idea of using something natural to help with flatulence. The other thing you'll find is that the more you eat beans, the less you toot. Your system gets used to the stuff.
Washington, D.C.:
Hi there -- I am about three months pregnant and suffering from horrible morning sickness. I am also a vegetarian. The only things I seek to keep down are carbs, but I am worried that I am not getting enough protein. Any suggestions for light but protein filled meals or snacks?
Kim O'Donnel: For upset tummy, consider papaya. It's wonderful. Also ginger in a tea...beans are loaded with protein...how do you think they would go down? leafy greens, too...how are you doing with dairy...or tofu?
Silver Spring, Md.:
Kim,
Love the chats and need knowledge from the 'hounds. I am a veggie girl who has a 6'6"+ omnivore partner who has just moved in. I need good ideas for filling both our tummies this summer. I don't cook meat, but this guy needs "stick to your ribs" food, and is CONVINCED that only meat will do it. I know otherwise, but I need help in some meal ideas that will help me since I won't cook the carcass. Ideas?
Kim O'Donnel: Does he cook? If needs the carcass, maybe he should be preparing himself? Take a look at "Vegetarian Meat & Potatoes Cookbook" which is based on a husband-wife story -- hub the meateater -- and writer wife found all kinds of ways to make stuff filling and satisfying without a drop of meat. Asian noodle dishes are often great filler uppers, chockful with veggies and a broth...and I swear by marinated, pan-fried tofu which turned a lot of meat eaters onto tofu for the first time...
Washington, D.C.:
I know this chat is called "cooking," not "heating," but wanted to let people know that Boca has a frozen faux-pepperoni pizza that is absolutely delicious. I think they do faux-sausage too. When you're in a hurry, sometimes it's nice to just pitch one of these in the oven and give yourself the night off cookingwise.
Kim O'Donnel: Thanks for chiming in...I'm always curious to hear reports from your countertops...
Boise, Idaho:
I' afraid of grilling veggies -- dont want them to stick. Do you have any good starter veggies to get me used to the process. I love the flavor of grilling and would like to move on to something other than meat!
Kim O'Donnel: Grease up those veggies with touch of oil to help...onions work well, as do portobello mushrooms, corn of course...whole bell peppers...larger pieces tend to stick less, and try not to fuss with them, let them cook...
For Long Beach, Calif.:
As an epidemiologist (genetic epidemiologist at that, and a vegetarian), what you stated are clearly not facts, they are highly controversial hypotheses. Stating them as facts is irresponsible. No one knows how those diseases were spread, but quite frankly it's unlikely through food consumption (it's tough for viruses to live through stomach acid, much more likely that particularly with HIV, transmitted through blood perhaps by preparing meat).
Besides, your argument is tantamount to saying that since a fair number of e.coli infections happen through contaminated fruit, that the CDC should issue warnings regarding fruit consumption.
And PS, many population geneticists clearly disagree with the reclassification of chimpanzees, as it is proposed with inadequate data.
Kim O'Donnel: Some thoughts on Long Beach's post...let me just say I don't want this dominate the conversation, because these topics are so huge...so let's get back to topics at hand...
Annandale, Va.:
Kim -- I'm a vegetarian that eats fish and dairy. I made the switch to being vegetarian in the first place for health reasons. I'm concerned, however, about getting enough protein in my diet. My tendency/prefererence has been to eat a lot of pasta, which doesn't do me too much good while trying to stay healthy, what with all those carbohydrates. And getting all my protein from fish can get boring. Any advice for healthy dishes to prepare/foods to eat in the vegetarian world out there that would enable me to get enough protein?
Kim O'Donnel: Let's just clarify for a minute, tho, Annandale...If you eat fish, you're not a vegetarian. I gotta say it because your claim will upset many vegetarians. But no matter...so you like fish, a wonderful way to get protein. Why do you find it boring? Tell me how you're preparing your fish. Legumes are another great source of protein, as are leafy greens, and of course, don't forget tofu. Actually, vegetarians need to be more concerned about B12 than they do protein...nuts are also another source of protein...if you're interested in the formula on how much protein you need on a daily basis, just holler.
Washington, D.C.:
What is your take on the idea that even moderate consumption of soy products, over time, can inhibit normal thyroid function?
Kim O'Donnel: I don't have data here to either confirm or refute this claim. this is a good one to take up with Sally Squires. I hear conflicting reports about soy, but remember the Japanese long have been using soy products...
Santa Fe, N.M.:
I have had really good luck basting
vegetables with vegetable broth when
grilling. It cuts down on the oil and the
vegies have a nice flavor.
Kim O'Donnel: Nice idea, Santa Fe...thanks for chiming in.
OliveGuy:
For grilling veggies, I find zukes, summer squash, and eggplant nearly fool-proof. Slice 'em in half and slap 'em on the grill, with a little oil of course (and a hint of lemon or vinegar, if you're inclined).
Kim O'Donnel: More good veggie grilling tips...and hello to Olive!
For pregnant vegetarian:
I am also a pregnant vegetarian who just got past the morning sickness phase. Hooray!
For me, I found that certain faux meats did well in my stomach, especially those breaded "chicken" nuggets you can get at health food stores. Also, although most dairy made me sick, it seemed more palatable when mixed with something tomato-y, so I ate a lot of ravioli and veggie lasagna. Good luck, and you'll get through it!
Kim O'Donnel: Ah...a first hand report..thanks!
For Columbia:
I'm not sure about the "real meat" taste, but Morningstar's Spicy Black Bean burgers are REALLY good!
Kim O'Donnel: More thoughts on faux meat products...
Vinegar in the cake:
On that vegan cake -- what role does the white vinegar play? I've seen it as an ingredient in other recipes where it makes me say Huh?
Does it perform a necessary chemical function in baking?
Baking's chemistry, right?
Kim O'Donnel: Baking is indeed chemistry...acid can work as both a leavener and tenderizer...without eggs, it needs something to help rise and tenderize...I don't the exact answer, but I will try to find out.
Maryland:
Have a bunch of hothouse to-MAH-tos I need to use. Thinking of, believe it or not, doing a quick fry up of them . Would it work to throw some onion and garlic and a few herbs in hot olive oil, then throw in quartered to-MAH-tos with the seeds removed, and then dumping the result over some pasta? Actually, I'll probably dump it over veal, but since this IS a veggie show.
Or am I just going to make a mess of the fruits?
Kim O'Donnel: You don't even need to worry about the seeds if you're dumping over something, Maryland. If you're make a saucy thing, who cares if it's a mess? It will be delicious!
Re: Kale question:
You can always take the baby-food-cube approach if you find yourself drowning in extra greens: Rip out the tough stems, wash, put in the microwave in a covered dish (probably don't need to add much water, since the leaves are still wet from washing), and nuke til done (sorry; I forget how long). Then puree the results in a blender or processor and put it into ice cube trays (you can squeeze out the extra water when you're packing it to use fewer trays). Freeze and transfer the cubes to a baggie for storage. Then you can pop a cube or two (or five--but a little goes a long way!) into sauces, soups, etc., for an instant vitamin boost. This works really well if, like me, you don't particularly care for plain greens. Sneak veggies into all sorts of stuff!
Kim O'Donnel: Very nice, indeed! Thanks for the tidbit...
Kale Kale Everywhere:
A couple of weeks ago, I cubed some potatoes, fried them a little while in a little oil, then added chopped kale until it was tender, a can of black beans and finally mixing in ranchera sauce from a jar before wrapping in tortillas. It was really tasty.
Kim O'Donnel: More great kale ideas...
Washington, D.C.:
Can you roast mustard greens as you can kale? I've got a nice pot of them, and they seem to be growing quite happily.
Kim O'Donnel: Yes, indeed. They may take a bit longer, but you can give it a whirl...
Silver Spring, Md.:
I've been vegan for a dozen years and am now interested in raw foods, Any ideas for how to gauge protein and calories? I'm a small eater by nature and even on a vegan diet don't eat as many calories as I "should."
Also, do you have a favorite sprouter?
Kim O'Donnel: I learned about a growing raw food community in Miami. There's a group preparing and delivering meals and I think they do cooking demos. It could be interesting to talk to them -- or better yet -- go on down and have a fun weekend! You may want to invest in a dehydrator, which is not going to be cheap, but this allows you to take nuts and make them into "flour" and "cheese" and other stuff...also, check to see if Roxanne's the chi chi raw food restaurant in Marin county has a Web site...maybe they've got a menu online for ideas...I know I didn't address your protein/calorie issue, but nuts are going to be your new friend...
Silver Spring, Md.:
With the beans, I have no problem with it, but Mom tends to fill with air when she eats my vegetarian red-beans-and-rice. The solution? Add a teaspoon of baking POWDER to the pot as you're dumping in the other tasty ingredients, and it seems to solve Mom's issue, at least.
Kim O'Donnel: Another thought on handling bean-induced flatulence...
RE: meat substitutes:
I couldn't do without Morningstar Farms Veggie Breakfast Sausage Patties. They are the best veggie sausage patties that I have ever tasted. I make a sandwich out of them with egg and cheese and tomato on a toasted english muffin in the morning. A great start to a day, in my humble opinion.
Kim O'Donnel: More on faux meat..
Sticks:
From a serious meat eater here. I had BOCA burger over weekend. Had tummy problems and didn't think a fatty burger would settle well so I had a boca burger. It was good. I'd cook and eat these again with no problems whatsoever, they tasted great off the grill and picked up the grill flavor.
Kim O'Donnel: and more...
Re: meat substitute products:
I love Lightlife's Smart Ground -- Taco and Burrito. Even though it's pre-seasoned in the package, I cook it up in a heated pan with olive oil and chopped onions and then mix in part of a taco seasoning packet and water. Add it to heated taco shells with your favorite taco fixings and you got yourself a good meal. Trust me. This stuff rocks.
Kim O'Donnel: And...
Alexandria, Va.:
Dear Kim:
Thanks for the farmers market list. Several years ago a farmer would come to Washington and stop at several places and drop off a bag of produce every week. Unfortunately he discontinued the service. Do you know of any one who does this?
Kim O'Donnel: Yeah, these are called CSAs...(community supported agriculture)...there was a list in Food section in early spring...we'll have to dig it up, but the key is to sign up early as there are limited spaces for such programs...
Centre of Nowhere re: Cooking with Kale:
Hey Kim!
I love these burritos, especially with kale:
1 can black beans (do not rinse)
1 tbsp. coriander
1 tbsp. cumin
bunch of sliced or diced shrooms
some onion
4 cups (give or take) roughly chopped kale, stems and tough parts removed
cheese
10" tortillas
Put the beans in a big saucepan (make sure that it has a lid) and start to heat on medium. Stir in the spices -- add S&P if you wish -- and add the mushrooms, onion.
Once its hot (not boiling), add your kale, stir and cover. Check after about 10 minutes, stir it in again.
When wilted (about 15 minutes) use to fill tortillas, add cheese, roll up and put into a 9x13 baking dish. Add extra cheese on top if you wish, cover, and put into 350 oven for about 15 minutes.
Delish! Serve with any sides -- mexican inspired or otherwise.
Kim O'Donnel: another take on kale/black bean burritos...what a treasure trove today...
For Boise:
You can use a grill basket for veggies,
and even if they stick, they stick to the
basket and not the grill grate itself.
Kim O'Donnel: Yes indeed...
Somewhere, USA:
I've become more conscious of my use of
fats for cooking. I have heard that you can
saute with veggie broth or water or beer
or really, I guess, any liquid. Do you know
how to do this? And is it really still
sauteeing or is this method really a sort
of steaming/boiling?
Kim O'Donnel: Yes, you're right, it's not really sauteeing anymore...a nonstick pan can help in your situation...I use liquid all the time cooking veggies, without actually boiling the stuff...go easy on the liquid but yes, it's a great lowfat way to cook.
L St., Washington, D.C.:
I've never had tempeh before, so I picked up a pack of "vegetable tempeh" the other day. Any suggestions on how to use it?
Kim O'Donnel: Tempeh is fermented soy...it can be sauteed, roasted...is yours marinated? If not, a good idea to do so...
Re: Vegetarian and fish:
My claim will "upset many Vegetarians?" Wow. Let's just say this much. When I'm out eating with friends, or in a group, it's far easier to say that I'm a vegetarian and clarify that I like to eat fish rather than to say that I'm not a vegetarian, and then list the foods I won't eat like beef, pork, chicken, etc...etc...etc. Don't know how that might offend someone. As for the fish, I usually just bake it in the oven by itself on a pan. I'd welcome any ideas you have for preparing it that would make it more interesting, and not so boring. And if you could share that daily protein formula, I'd appreciate it.
Kim O'Donnel: In this hour, you might. I'm saying this based on experience with this group. Full-fledged vegetarians tend to be exacting about what they eat. I understand where you're coming from...so many of us are transitioning from eating red meat to other things...and it is indeed difficult to articulate our very personal eating habits and lifestyle choices...that said, to calculate your daily protein needs:
your weight in kilograms (divide your weight in pounds by 2.2)..then multiply kg weight by .8
there you go. for 150 pound individual, 54 g/ day is enough. and as for fish, what kinds do you like?
For Raw Foodie:
The DC Metro Vegetarian Society has a raw food group that holds potlucks and meetings.
Kim O'Donnel: I didn't know that...thanks for chiming in.
Providence, R.I.:
Hi Kim!
I'm not fully vegetarian but am trying to expand my repertoire of meatless options. I am getting more interested in legumes, having mostly overcome my childhood aversion to them, but my husband remains violently opposed. I think it's a texture rather than taste thing, since he loves hummus and recently unknowingly devoured veggie burritos filled with pureed black beans. So I have been considering ways to incorporate them in an altered state, pureed or cooked and chopped to a ground-beef-like consistency. Any suggestions or comments that you and the chowhounds can provide?
Kim O'Donnel: White bean puree is also great, seasoned with rosemary, cayenne, garlic, olive oil...a good one for sandwiches, as a dip...you're right, it sounds more like a texture thing...hmmm...have you tried lentils with him yet? They are pretty smooth relatively speaking on the tongue...
Kim O'Donnel:
It's time to go already. Thanks for all the tidbits, kale suggestions, faux meat faves and everything in between. Take it easy. Let's type again, in late June. Ciao!
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