The Future of E-learning
With Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood
Education Week
Friday, May 10, 2002; 1 p.m. EDT

More and more schools across the country are establishing online programs and distance learning classes. According to a new Education Week survey, E-Defining Education: A Survey of State Technology Coordinators, "12 states have established online high school programs and five others are developing them, 25 states allow for the creation of so-called cyber charter schools, and 32 states have e-learning initiatives under way."

These programs and policy changes are the face of online education for K-12 and college students. Today, Education Week has just released their Technology Counts 2002 Report on how virtual schools and online instruction are transforming teaching and learning.

Join Kevin Bushweller, project editor for Technology Counts 2002 and Jenni Haygood, a student at Florida Virtual School, to discuss e-learning and Education Week’s Technology Counts 2002 Report.

Bushweller is the assistant managing editor of Education Week. Haygood is a senior at Florida Virtual School.

A transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: Hello,

Thanks for joining us to discuss e-learning and the release of Technology Counts 2002: E-Defining Education. This year's report looks at virtual schools, online teaching and testing, and other e-learning initiatives that are transforming education. kb

On behalf of the Florida Virtual School, I am very excited to be included in this chat and also to have been mentioned in this issue of Technology Counts. jh

Washington, D.C.: What exactly is e-learning? Does this refer to any computer use in classes?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: No. Our report's definition of e-learning was not that broad.

For the purposes of our report, we chose to narrow the definition of e-learning. Basically, we looked at initiatives that would alter the way education is delivered via the Internet. For instance, opportunities that would allow a student in Massachusetts to take a course from a teacher in California.
One of the stories focused on the Florida Virtual High school, a school where classes take place entirely over the Internet. Another story looked at teachers who teach full time online. kb

Alexandria, Va.: Jenni:

Are there certain kinds of classes that work better online than others?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: As with a traditional school, some classes will be easier than others. I think that whether or not a class is easy or hard really depends on the student. For example, I am not the best at math. I took a Pre-Calculus class online with the Florida Virtual School and it was just as hard for me online as it would have been in a traditional school setting. So I believe that some classes, particularly those dealing with math or science, might be more difficult as they require more hands-on learning.

Silver Spring, Md.: Where do you see e-learning going from here? What does the future hold for e-learning initiatives and policies, and for students using this technology?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: We definitely see it growing.

We surveyed the state this year for Tech Counts and found:
*32 states have e-learning initiatives.
*12 states have their own virtual high school programs.
*25 states allow for the creation of cyber charter schools.
*10 states are piloting online testing and Oregon and South Dakota are already doing it.

Beyond that, the number students taking courses from Florida Virtual School has almost doubled from 2,600 to 5,000 in the past few years.

Also, one area of e-learning that is taking off at an especially fast pace is the use of the Internet to provide professional development programs for educators.

One of the main reasons that the use of e-learning could really increase is because it has the potential to fill gaps. For instance, a poor kid in Kentucky who has no access to AP courses can now have the opportunity to take those courses from a teacher hundreds or even thousands of miles away.

E-learning is also becoming increasingly popular among home schoolers.

North Bethesda, Md.: I would like to know your views of e-learning in the workplace. What are the strengths and weaknesses of e-learning when it is applied to corporate skill development/maintenance?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: This year's Technology Counts looked primarily at e-learning in K-12 settings and the lessons learned from higher education.
Some of this may apply to the corporate world.
One of the strengths of e-learning is its flexibility. Many educators said they were more likely to take professional development courses if they were offered online rather than situations in which they have to drive to a local university to take a class.
Also, some experts believe online environments are better for ensuring the consistency and continuity of training programs. You can make sure every teacher really is getting the same content.
It might be worth the corporate world taking a look at what we're starting to learn about what are the most effective ways to teach online. Two articles in our report, "Higher Ed.'s Online Odyssey" and "The Virtual Teaching Life" share some of those lessons. -- kb

Tallahassee, Fla.: Did you think that the courses were challenging enough? And how did the teachers respond to your needs when you didn't understand a problem or concept you were studying?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: Yes, I would say the courses were very challenging. I was in a program known as the International Baccleaureate at a public school. The courses for that program were considered to be higher than typical Advanced Placement level courses. When comparing those courses with the classes I have taken with Florida Virtual School over the past two years, I can honestly say both are on the same academic level. With FLVS, the courses were also more flexible. In order to remain on pace, I have to submit a minimum number of assignments per week. However, I can complete those assignments at any time during the week. This flexibility has allowed me to excel in many extracurricular areas that I would not have the opportunity to do in a traditional setting.

The teachers at Florida Virtual School are very supportive. They want to help you and will go the extra mile to do so. If ever I have a problem I can always call my teacher and they will spend as much time as necessary on the phone with me making sure I understand the concept. Some of my teachers have also been known to meet some of their students near their home or at the school offices in Orlando. I have had the opportunity to meet many of the teachers at Florida Virtual School and they are all wonderful, very dedicated people.

Jenni

North Bethesda, Md.: Is E-Learning really more cost effective, given the high cost of development?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: That's hard to tell at this point, but there is surely great potential for cost savings.

In some of the e-learning examples we looked at there were manpower issues that couldn't be solved where e-learning was really the best solution. For instance, West Virginia created a foreign language mandate, but didn't have enough foreign language teachers. So the state partnered with Florida Virtual School to offer online Spanish classes.

Silver Spring, Md.: Where are these "professional development programs" for educators?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: If you go to the report on the Web, there is some information about online professional development sites included with an article, titled "E-Training Offers Options." -- kb

Burtonsville, Md.: Is plagiarism a problem in online school. I would guess with people emailing and posting there work on websites via the internet that plagerism and cheating would be so easy to do. How is handled?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: Plagiarism is of course going to be a problem in any school, but perhaps more so in an online environment. In order to access online courses, students must enter their password and username. This helps prevent cheating in some ways, however, a student could of course give this information to a friend. Many teachers, especially those who teach English, get to know their students and thus can recognize their work. Writing styles are so different and unique that many teachers will be able to tell when a student might be "borrowing" someone else's work.

Also, most teachers at Florida Virtual School are involved with the development of the courses that they teach. They find many of the websites themselves and are familiar with the material available on these sites. This way they will be able to tell if a student of theirs is plagiarizing.

Columbia, Md.: Do you think the quality of online courses is better than or worse than regular classes?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: Technology Counts looked at more than 2,000 course evaluations from Florida Virtual School and found that 68 percent of students thought online courses were at least as hard or harder than regular classes.
Also, 58 percent said the quality of online courses was better or much better than regular classes. - kb

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: In reference to the plagiarism question, that is not something the report looked into. However, it is some-thing Education Week plans to cover.
Cheating is a very serious problem -- both in traditional classrooms and online setups. But the reason it could be an even greater problem in online environments is because of the difficulty in knowing whether or not the student doing the work is actually doing it -- rather than a friend or parent doing the work for them. This is an issue that e-learning educators will have to work hard to resolve. -- kb

Clifton, Va.: As a parent of a child with disabilities, a special education teacher and a board member of our local Disability Services Board I am concerned about how access by students with disabilities is achieved, maintained and guarunteed. What is done for students with physical disablilities, sensory disabilities.

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: That is a complex problem that will need to be worked out. As it is, e-learning is a mostly visual experience.
This year's report didn't deal specifically with the needs of special education. However, last year's Technology Counts examined this problem as part of an overall look at the so-called digital divide. You might want to go to the Education Week Web site and check out that report. - kb

Lathrup Village, Mich.: I just glanced through the newly released issue of Technology Counts and find the issue of virtual education fascinating. Jenni, clearly there's a lot to be gained by a student like yourself who is highly motivated. But, what about the majority of your peers who take a more casual approach to learning or who don't have strong parental support? Do you think virtual education can work for them?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: It is true that to truly succeed in virtual education, it helps to be motivated. However, there are some students at Florida Virtual School who do take a more casual approach. For example, there are athletes who would rather play their sport than go to school six hours each day. So they take online courses before and after their practices in order to satisfy their education requirements while also pursuing their goals of becoming an experienced athlete. Some of our students work or have heavy family responsibilities and thus take online courses to further their education. Many students have their education on the back burner while pursuing other opportunities. My point is that everyone is motivated in some form. You don't have to motivated simply for education. Virtual education can work for many different people and serve many different purposes. You just have to give it a chance.

Jenni

Winchester, Ky.: What research resources do you use? Do you do research for you term papers and/or assigments?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: For my English classes, we have many research papers and reports to write and I use a variety of resources. I go to the library and check out books on the subject. I use encyclopedia CD-ROMs and of course, I use the internet. The good thing about Florida Virtual School classes is that the teachers understand how vast the Internet really is and how difficult it is to find research information. So they often list a variety of websites to use as guidelines. Often, these sites alone are enough to complete the assignments.

Jenni

Jackson, Miss.: How is education being "e-defined?"

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: We called the report E-Defining Education because we saw how quickly the Internet was really changing traditional notions of how education is delivered.
To answer your question, it is opening up opportunities for kids and teachers that never existed before. In "The Virtual Teaching Life," a chapter of the report, a teacher in Washington had her students talk online with students in Japan about the 2000 presidential election. The Japanese kids thought there was chaos in America, which sparked a discussion of democracy among the American students. The conversation would be almost impossible to duplicate in a traditional public school, the teacher said.
But the biggest change is that online learning is opening up actual courses to students who wouldn't otherwise have access to them.

Annapolis, Md.: Hey Kevin, Jenni: Is there any information available on how well students perform in virtual learning environments? Doesn't the lack of face-to-face time with teachers and students hurt the whole education experience?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: There haven't been any major research studies yet comparing the performance of students in online courses vs. traditional classes.
But one of the things Technology Counts found was that, at least at this point in time, students who tend to do best in online classes are very self-motivated. In other words, they don't need a teacher hovering over them making sure they're doing their work. -- kb

Tallahassee, Fla.: Jenni,
How did your Florida Virtual School teacher help you in Math to see graphing and other types of visual problem solving that you had questions on? Was it all done over the phone?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: In the actual course material, many graphs were included as visuals. I was also provided with a textbook for this course and the textbook offered detailed explanations and practice problems, even though the actual problems I had to turn in for a grade were online. The textbook was great; very easy to understand.

Once when I was about half way through my Pre-Calculus course, I had some serious problems dealing with trigonometry. So I called my teacher and he suggested working in the online chat feature for an hour or so. Here he was able to draw graphs and visuals that helped the understand the concept. This really helped and we also worked in a few more sessions as well. Thanks to this extra help, I received an A on the chapter test!

Jenni

Milpitas, Calif.: I see the advantages to high schools, what would you say the advantages are for K-8?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: To begin with, the report found a great deal of concern about the possibility of online learning filtering down to the elementary grades.

But what e-learning probably would offer to younger students is similar to what it offers to high school kids. Mainly it has the potential to fill gaps. For instance, if an elementary child is sick and cannot physically attend school, setting up an online learning program for them could prevent the child from falling behind. Also, e-learning offers a wealth of online resources to home schoolers. -- kb

Bethesda, Md.: I'm 15, go to all-girls school. I think online classes would give you more leisure time and not a such a set schedule as high school. Is this right? Jenni, what do you think about the differences in workload?
I really want to hear from Jenni what she thinks of the teachers, too: do they really understand their subjects? or are they brand new, learning along with students? are they available to help students more individually than regular teachers are?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: Yes! Online classes did help make my schedule easier to deal with as I was not in a classroom for six hours every day. I had a lot more time to pursue other opportunities such as a part-time job, writing for the teen section of a local newspaper, and being president of a local youth group. Although the workload is about the same as a traditional school, it really does not seem that way as again you're not in a classroom all day and there is no set time to work on assignments.

The teachers are incredible. They really know the material they are teaching. Many have even taught in a traditional school during their teaching careers so they can compare the two learning styles. None of them are brand-new. In order to be a teacher at the Florida Virtual School, you have to undergo a very extensive selection and training process. So rest assured, our teachers are the best! I would also say that FLVS teachers are in fact able to provide a more individual style of learning for each student. Although they never meet face-to-face with their students, they are able to communicated with them in a way most traditional school teachers cannot. They can be personal. Both students and teachers are actually more comfortable when they do not have to see each other in a classroom setting.

Jenni

Washington, D.C.: What are the downsides to e-learning? Don't kids need the face-to-face interactions?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: The major downside is that there is no face-to-face interaction between students and teachers.
In our report on Florida Virtual School, 85 percent of students said communication with their teachers was good or great. But only 39 percent of students said the same about their interaction with other students.
In "E-Learning Goes To School," a chapter in the report, one researcher reported that he has studied a virtual high school program that is based in Massachusetts. As part of his research, he has conducted surveys of participants in similar online and face-to-face classes. One of his primary findings: There is less interaction between students and teachers in online classes.
Also, one of the disadvantages is it doesn't work well for everybody, especially students who need lots of teacher attention.

Union, Mo.: Jenni: What about a sense of community in a virtual learning environment? What kinds of things do your teachers do in order to help promote a sense of connectedness amongst the group taking the online course?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: To be honest, it is harder to feel a sense of community in a virtual setting. However, FLVS does have a few ways for students to socialize. There is a Science Club and Latin Club, who by the way is planning to go to Rome sometime this year. There is also a student newspaper. All of these involve field trips and online chats which allow students to meet each other and become friends.

Next year the school is planning to have its first Student Government Association. Among other projects, one of the main items on our priority list is to organize field trips for students to meet other students and their teachers. Everyone wants to feel like they are part of a community at school, and we are working to make sure everyone feels that way.

Jenni

Fairfax, Va.: I'm entering a graduate program in the fall, that will be delivered via distance learning through a land-grant university. Do you have any tips for success in this educational environment?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: In our reporting for Technology Counts, we found time and again how important self-discipline and self-motivation is in an online setting. In our story "Higher Ed.'s Online Odyssey" we feature a single mom from Baltimore who is taking online college courses while working full time. You need to make sure you have the technology necessary to interact effectively with teachers and others taking the course -- at home or at work or wherever you will be accessing the courses. You need to know what kind of access you will have to your online teachers. Will you be expected to interact a certain number of times per week or per course? Talk on the phone? Because there is a lot of flexibility and little structure, it would probably be helpful to carve out specific times to dedicate to online courses. -- kb

Rockville, Md.: Jenni: How do you take a class at your school?
Do you have to enroll there full time or can you just take one or two clases? Also, how much does it cost?
I'm a freshman in high school.

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: To take a class at the Florida Virtual School, you register online at our website and then once your paperwork is processed, you're provided with a username and password to access your courses. The courses do not cost anything usually. Some of the science classes may require a small lab fee but that's usually it.

You do not have to enroll full-time as many of students only take one or two classes with FLVS. What makes the school appealing is that you can take online classes in addition to traditional school classes. This allows many students to graduate early. I take all of my classes online because I am homeschooled. Personally, I like it better this way as I have a more flexible schedule and I do not have to worry about being enrolled in two schools. I can imagine this would make the assignments confusing :).

Jenni

Burke, Va.: How are teachers being trained to teach in on-line environments?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: That depends on the state and the district.
But we would recommend you check out "E-Training Offers Options," a chapter of the report which lists resources for developing online course for training teachers.

Washington, D.C.: Jenni: How will this experience affect your future work life/expectations, or will it?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: The experience of taking online courses has greatly impacted my future. I have had many opportunities these past two years, both in and outside of school, that I know for sure I would not have had in a traditional setting. For example, I write for the teen section of my local paper and this has allowed me to rediscover my passion for journalism and I believe that will be my career choice. I have also been involved with a local youth group. This experience has allowed me to meet and work with local community leaders. So I also might consider a career in politics or community relations.

The only thing that could be considered a negative experience during the past two years, is that I will be started my college career at a local community college instead of a university. This is a personal decision as I want to ease back into the traditional education setting.

Jenni

Santa Ana, Calif.: While we have Federal Standards, most states can create individual plans on how to reach/teach those standards (both for H.S. Graduation and Professional Certification). How does e-schooling address those as a 'national' provider of educational services?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: There really is no "national" provider of e-learning services. In much the same way that standards and curricula are established by states and districts, and often are implemented in a decentralized way, e-learning is following much the same path. Technology Counts found that 12 states have established their own virtual school initiatives. These are probably more attentive to state standards and curriculum than private e-learning efforts. But as the report shows, there are a lot of private companies contracting with states and districts (or even individual schools) to provide online courses. And we don't know much about how those efforts align with states standards and expectations for students. --kb

Burke, Va.: Are these on-line learning environments tied into local school systems, or are the majority of students those who are doing home-schooling?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: Many of the online opportunities we looked at in Technology Counts are tied to states or to individual school districts. The district often seems to be the level at which contracts for e-learning arrangements are made. Home school students can take advantage of these arrangements as well. At the FL Virtual School 37% of the students are home schooled. So home schoolers are definitely taking advantage of e-learning opportunities offered through districts and states -- kb

Washington, D.C.: Jenni, do you find the lack of visual contact, facial expressions, etc, cause greater problems in communicating and learning online?

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: I don't really think that a lack of visual contact has created problems in online learning. I actually find it somewhat comforting when dealing with other students and teachers. Many of the students I know at Florida Virtual School feel the same way and I believe this lack of visual contact actually makes online learning much easier. Don't get me wrong, I love talking to people and seeing how they react visually. But if I say something embarassing online, then I can always blame it on a typo :).

Jenni

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: Thank you so much for all of your questions. I had a lot of fun answering them and I thank everyone involved for the opportunity to do so. Hopefully you learned a little about online learning and the Florida Virtual School. For more information please go to www.flvs.net. I hope everyone decides to visit the site. It really is a great school and it has provided an incredible experience for me. Thank you very much and I'll see you online!

Jenni

Kevin Bushweller and Jenni Haygood: Thanks for all of the great questions and for your participation in this online discussion. I hope you will have time to look at Technology Counts 2002 in more detail. The report includes not only information on this year's special theme -- e-learning -- but also features a wealth of information on training, access, and use of computers in schools and at home by teachers and students. Technology Counts is an annual report on the state of education technology across the nation -- this is the 5th annual report. Beyond this annual report, please see Education Week for our regular technology coverage. --kb

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