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Shopping: In Search of Style in Washington, D.C.
With Janet Bennett
washingtonpost.com Shopping Producer
Wednesday, May 29, 2002; 2 p.m. EDT
Women in Washington have more important things to think about than
clothes. At least that’s what many of the navy suit wearers among us
would have you believe. Contrary to that myth, former D.C. resident Laura Zigman -- author of “Animal Husbandry,” which was made into the Ashley Judd film “Someone Like You” -- has written a new novel, “Her,” about a Washington
woman whose fashion choices play an important role in her life.
Join washingtonpost.com Shopping editor Janet Bennett and Books editor Jen Chaney for a discussion with Laura Zigman, who will talk about the worlds of fashion, fiction and how the two intersect.
Submit your questions or comments in advance or during the live hour.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Janet Bennett and Jen Chaney:
Welcome, Laura. We're delighted to have you as our guest today. First of all, congrats on your new book, "Her!" Now let's get to the readers' questions.
Janet Bennett and Jen Chaney:
Welcome, Laura. Jen and I and our readers are delighted to have you as our guest today. Congratulations on the new book. And on that subject we've got a bunch of questions. Let's begin with one Jen and I wanted to ask: Why did you choose Washington for the site of the action in "Her," and what made you decide to make fashion a focus?
Laura Zigman: I chose Washington for the setting of "Her" because I lived there, and because the main characters in the book meet on the Delta Shuttle on their way home to Washington -- both Elise and Donald had both lived in New York originally and had both (coincidentally) moved to D.C. during major life-changes.
As it happened, I got to be quite friendly with the owner of this amazing clothing store in Chevy Chase, RELISH -- Nancy Pearlstein. She, like me, was a former Bostonian and I spent a lot of time in her store, shopping and talking. She's very very funny and she's also a genius when it comes to dressing you....
Janet Bennett and Jen Chaney:
Laura, a book-related question from the books editor: Can you tell us how you got your start as a writer? How long did it take to write your first novel and then to get it published?
Laura Zigman: Most people start out writing and publishing articles, stories, etc. but I did not. I worked in publishing -- at different divisions of Random House -- for over ten years. While I was there (I was a publicist), I was working (not so secretly) on a novel which would become my first, Animal Husbandry. It took about 5 years to write it (I like to think it took so long because I was working full time). Right after I finished it I found an agent and the novel was sold pretty quickly to a publisher (The Dial Press) and to Hollywood.
Brooklyn, N.Y.:
So, what's with D.C. women and ugly shoes? You know the shoes I'm talking about, those black loafers with the clunky soles that make everybody's feet look like Frankenstein's. Why are they so popular in D.C.? And don't tell me it's because so many people in D.C. commute by Metro and have to walk to/from the stations. I commute by rail as well, but I wear three-inch heels when I do it and have yet to break an ankle.
Laura Zigman: God, I wish I knew what was with those shoes. My question to you is: What's with the white hose with those ugly shoes? Don't people know that NO ONE looks good in white hose?!
Washington, D.C.:
Can you post an excerpt from your book (or a link to an excerpt) so we can more fully participate in the discussion?
Thanks! washingtonpost.com:
Finally, a Washington Novel With a Smartly Dressed Plot (Post, March 29)
Laura Zigman: try aaknopf.com (that's the publisher's website) or amazon.com
Arlington, Va.:
On a recent "West Wing" episode, a Barney's on Connecticut Avenue was mentioned, though there are only one or two Barney's outlet stores in the entire area. I know D.C. has a number of higher-end stores (Riziks, Neiman-Marcus, Saks, etc.)and some pricey though lesser-known boutiques, so why did the show feel compelled to use a fake DC Barney's? Is DC really considered that much of a frumpy fashion place?
Janet Bennett:
Hi, Arlington,
Thanks for your question. I don't know why the "West Wing" decided to create a Barney's on Connecticut. Although DC is not crawling with fashionable boutiques, the city does have its share, and the number is increasing. Just in the past month or so two new boutiques, one on U Street and another in Pentagon Row opened. Still DC's frumpy reputation persists. It's almost as if it's a matter of pride.
Laura Zigman: I caught that fictional reference to Barney's too. And yes, compared to NYC and LA (I assume most of the writing staff is based out there), Washington is considered a bit off the fashion map...
Harrisburg, Pa.:
Do you have any comments on the fashion of women in government? Is there a clothing trend you spot that women should heed, and any trends they should avoid? Janet Bennett and Jen Chaney:
I think women in government in this town get low marks for fashion, and probably deservedly. NOT all women in government, but many are just risk averse and would just rather wear a navy suit and some sensible low heels.
Laura Zigman: I would agree that women in Washington should just take more risks. When I first moved to DC I worked at the Smithsonian, and I, who never felt like someone on the cutting edge of fashion myself, found that I felt ridiculous most of the time -- there I was in black (it was very hot out so I started to wear more light colors): black skirts, black boots, black tights, short skirts (this was seven years ago). So very quickly I started feeling a little self-conscious.
One of the nice things, though, was that I did feel liberated from the Cult of Fashion of NYC enough to buy a pair of Birkenstocks. Eventually. (I bought a pair of Mephistos, stared at them for five days, then returned them three days later. Six months after that is when I bought the Birkenstocks).
Washington, D.C.:
Hi Laura--
I thoroughly enjoyed your two previous novels, and am looking forward to # 3.
In both, I was impressed by the way you are able to find the humor in quite serious/emotional situations, and wondering how you managed it? (I'm assuming at least some part(s) of the novels are autobiographical!) Is it easier to see the humorous aspects of these situations in retrospect ?
(BTW, was disappointed in the "Hollywood happy ending" of the movie version of AH, though I suppose that could have been predicted. But great casting on the Eddie character!!)
Laura Zigman: Thanks for your nice comments (I, too, was disappointed by the enforced "happy ending" in the movie). I'm glad to hear that both the serious and humorous aspects of these situations -- getting dumped, wanting kids, feeling deeply insecure about a boyfriend's ex -- has come through. And yes, of course much of what I write about is autobiographical. In the case of HER, I met my fiance's ex-wife: I was wearing a parka and she was wearing a push-up bra and I never quite got over the shock of how attractive she was. (She's very nice, and not anything like Adrienne)....
p.s. I loved Hugh Jackman too.
From Washington, D.C. to New York:
Help! I'm heading to Long Island for a wedding in October and other than a long black dress, is there any other stylish option for me? I don't want to look like someone from "unfashionable" Washington up there (or so the other guests would think)!
Laura Zigman: Go to Relish.
Clifton, Va.:
Can I wear a garter belt and stockings with business attire. It's so much cooler than panty hose!
Laura Zigman: Go to Relish.
Washington, D.C.:
So I am now doubly concerned about fashion -- I work in a conservative industry (law) but I'm pregnant. So far I haven't had to invest much in new clothes, but the time will come. So where does a style-conscious pregnant woman shop in the area? (Bearing in mind this is a wardrobe for maybe 5 months and I'd rather spend the money on my child's future education!) Do your books ever take on maternity "fashion"?
Laura Zigman: Good question. I was pregnant almost two years ago, but I had the luxury of lying around my apartment in gigantic sweat pants. However, I found that Mimi Maternity had a lot of surprising good stuff. Also, I did a lot of shopping on the web and through a few NYC stores that had sort of high-end pregnancy wear: Liz Lange is one, and there's a few others on the web that you can find (I can't remember). But some of them were a little much for me (money, and fashion wise: a lot of tight t-shirts and leather pants....not for me even when I'm NOT pregnant), so I stuck to Mimi Maternity.
Janet Bennett and Jen Chaney:
Despite the "fashion mistakes," did you like living in D.C.? Did you live in Cleveland Park like Elise?
Laura Zigman: Yes, up until recently -- December, actually -- i lived in Cleveland Park, at the Kennedy Warren. I lived there for 6 years -- I'd moved from NYC, and it was like heaven on earth.
Washington, D.C.:
While I live in DC, I have an affinity for western/cowboy things. Black cowboy boots are an American classic but I often find that wearing too much or too often gets rendered as "hokey" around here. I also like many "wearable art" items, such as richly-colored woven chenille jackets that aren't always considered business-y. I've been trying to find a way to merge casual and comfy while still maintaining a polished and presentable appearance. I'm 35, single and am NOT the "earth mother" type; J. Jill store/catalog clothing fits my style somewhat, but is still too casual. Am I alone in this predicament? I try to wear classic suits and then splurge on funky or unique jewelry or accessories, but sometimes just want to live in the Eddie Bauer "lumberjack with a trust fund" style.
Laura Zigman: You're asking the wrong person. For years, black cowboy boots, black tights, and short skirts was my uniform when I worked in NY, and when I moved to DC I felt ridiculous wearing that. Publishing was easy, because you could kind of wear anything -- in fact, if you wore a conservative suit they would become very suspicious and assume you had an interview somewhere...
Horrible shoes:
The reason people in DC wear those awful clunky shoes is because they are sold everywhere and you can't buy decent shoes unless you go to Neiman's and even the DC store does not have as great a selection as the White Plains store.
Relish is a great store and Nancy should open a shoe store with equally fab stuff. There is such a need for it.
Also, really looking forward to your book, I bought it and am saving it for the flight to Paris where I am going, what else, to buy shoes!
Laura Zigman: Hilarious. They're all Enzo Angliolini and Nine West. Glad you go to Nancy's. And she does have a good amount of shoes. Just wish she had more....(she might, someday soon)...
Fashionville, D.C.:
I tried to tell the Senator he doesn't look good in white hose, but he wouldn't listen. Are there other fashion mistakes you see in DC?
Laura Zigman: Funny.
Just too many red and navy and pink suits with big gold buttons. And those button earrings. And low pumps.
Arlington, Va.:
Ms. Zigman,
What do you think about the open toe hose --comes in all colors?
Laura Zigman: Uhm, the open-toe hose makes me kind of nervous. Either hose or no hose. If you're wearing sandals, then no hose. Kind of weird to see someone wearing sandals and hose -- even if the toes are cut out...
Somewhere, USA:
Where is Relish and why do you like it so much?
Laura Zigman: Relish is a great (though expensive) store in
Chevy Chase, Maryland. The owner became a close friend of mine and she and the store feature prominently in my new book. It's got exceptionally beautiful clothing (from suits to jackets to leather pants to gorgeous flowing summer dresses) and fantastic accessories. Not to mention perfect jeans and shoes (Nancy travels everywhere and selects great stuff for the store). Unfortunately, it's rather high-end price wise.
20002:
Where would you send someone in search of a wedding gown -- specifically non-fussy, clean lines and a good fit.
Is it possible to find in DC or should I just head to NYC? Janet Bennett and Jen Chaney:
This is Jen, and personally I think you can find something in DC. There's Rizik Bros., Vera Wang (even though Laura doesn't recommend her in the book!), Claire Dratch, or the wedding shop in Manassas where I bought my dress a year ago. (Of course, now I've forgotten the name.) Laura, any bridal gown advice since it was such a focal point in "Her"?
Laura Zigman: I agree with Rizik's. Also, I personally LOVE Vera Wang dresses (even though in the book they make fun of them), so I would recommend that as well...
And the aforementioned Relish would be:
Where is it and where do I park to go there?
Laura Zigman: The store is on Wisconsin Avenue, just past Mazza Gallerie, Banana Republic, Versace, Starbucks and right next to Cartier. I think the exact address is 5454 Wisconsin. Park across the street at the Clyde's parking lot or at the Saks Fifth Avenue lot...
Bethesda, Md.:
Is Relish the place that sells trendy second hand clothing? Do they buy things from you or put it on consignment?
Laura Zigman: Nope. Different store.
Ex-Miamian Now in DC:
Being from a place I like to call Sodom, I had a very hard time adjusting to the frump factor here. In MIA, people wear EVERYTHING fitted and they expose as much skin as possible. Unfortunately, since moving here I've found that frump is contagious, and I have to fight to keep my Miami style going in boring Washington. Every time I go back home people look at what I am wearing and ask: "What happened to you?"
That said, do you guys think there is a certain fashion adjustment one is obliged to make when one moves to another city? Like, should I give up my cleavage clothes for, gasp, navy blue suits just cuz I live here now?
Laura Zigman: NO! Try to hang on. Try not to completely give over your sense of style and adventurousness...! I don't know why that happens in DC but it does and it's a shame!
Fairfax, VA:
Can you recommend any stores that carry good-quality career clothing in petite sizes at reasonable prices? Also, in styles that are not too young or too old. I'm 32 years old and earn around $50K/year, so I'm not interested in expensive boutiques. I usually shop at Hecht's, but I've been disappointed with the choices lately. Janet Bennett and Jen Chaney:
Have you tried La Petite Classique on Bethesda Ave in Bethesda? I can't vouch for the prices, but I don't think it's particularly expensive. Laura, have any suggestions?
Laura Zigman: I've always found that Saks has a pretty great selection of well-priced clothes -- from dressy to casual, and pretty good prices. The Saks in Chevy Chase is good, and so is the one in Tyson's Corner. Also, I think the Bloomingdale's in Tyson's is quite good, too. Lots to pick from, and you can usually do pretty well during sales....
I've never been to La Petite Classique though I've heard good things....
Richmond VA:
For the pregnant lawyer, try Barneys on Madison Ave. I never set foot in the store but Trish (on the 5th floor) was a real help by phone. The Barneys house label is affordable/fashionable. Prices are similar to Mimi.
Laura Zigman: Yes, Barney's does have a pregnancy line, although I think it's quite limited (and also for women on the small side of the pregnancy weight-gain).
The Gap also has a maternity line -- which I believe is only available on-line. They have some very good basics (white shirts, chinos, etc, as well as things for the office).
Janet Bennett and Jen Chaney:
A brief commentary from Jen: I think it's a little unfair to perpetuate the stereotype that Washington and its fashion is boring. I've worked on the Hill so I've seen the suit-wearing, button-earrings people, but I think if do something non-government related, you see much less of that. Go to a Fugazi show at Fort Reno, for instance, and you'll see a whole different DC. Just my two cents.
what's wrong with flats??:
I walk to work (3 miles) and I wear Tods or cutie Kate Spade flats or loafers because I think the white sneakers are a worse offense. Am I wrong in thinking that these look okay?? Yikes, as a relocated New Yorker I would hate to think I had been in DC so long that I was falling prey to the horrible sameness/lack of style here!
Laura Zigman: I don't think there's anything wrong with flats. I love them -- all the flip-flop variations; the slightly more elegant Birkenstock-type shoes; and all those black molded sole Prada knock-offs -- and they look great (especially the ones you're wearing) -- a thousand percent better than sneakers. AND you can actually walk in them and get around. I've never quite understood -- or mastered -- the "Sex in the City" Manaolo Blahnik 4-inch heel thing. I truly don't know how women navigate sidewalks and streets and stairs in heels like that (although they do look fabulous).
Arlington, VA:
I have had two foot surgeries and other problems with my feet mostly due to wearing heels - I hope the woman who walks to the metro in three inch heels doesn't have to go through what I have! Anyway, I still like to wear heels but have to be very picky since I need them comfortable. What designer do you think makes the best heels lookwise and comfortwise? Thanks.
Laura Zigman: Andre Agoussi (I think that's the way it's spelled) makes great looking really comfortable shoes -- and they're sold at Nordstom's, and Lord & Taylor. I'd start there (these are much better looking I'd say than Easy Spirit-type comfort shoes)...
Otherwise, for huge selection and an open retail format where you can try on about 1000 pairs self-serve style, is DSW Shoe Warehouse -- there's one on Democracy Blvd. near Bethesda....
(Also, Nordstrom's has the biggest shoe selection of any department store)
For the person looking for petite sizes....:
Ann Taylor has great stuff in regular and petite sizes.
Laura Zigman: Also, there's Eileen Fisher. I know that her clothes are sold at Saks and Bloomingdales, but I'm not sure she has a store in DC/VA/MD area. They have great petite things (as well as plus-size versions of their regular line).
Also, Brooks Brothers has very good women's petite's and regular sizes.
Re: Shoes!:
Ok, I think we've hit a hot-button issue!
For me, the problem is basic engineering - the shoe designers haven't really come up with a -stylish- low- or flat-heeled women's shoe that gives both support and shock absorption, where the shoe doesn't fall off the foot when walking. (If this sounds like I'm expecting the same from women's shoes that men's shoes have, then I guess you're right!) If any come on the market, I'd pay a good chunk of disposable income for them!
(I'm afraid I'm about to get rotten fruit thrown at me in this crowd - please forgive, but my back can't stand high heels, and my feet can't take the pounding without support! I suppose I could just suffer, but I'd really rather not!)
Laura Zigman: I've found that a lot of the rubber-wedgy-platform type shoes are quite comfortable -- easy to walk in (relatively), and the thick rubber base acts somewhat like a giant shock absorber. Unfortunately, the more comfortable the shoe gets, the, well, less attractive (uglier) it usually gets, too.
And I don't think too many would fight you on the high-heel issue! I don't know anyone who personally wears heels on a regular daily basis who finds them bearably comfortable.
Ex-New Yorker now in DC,:
I have to agree with the others that DC's frumpiness is contagious. When I moved down here from NYC (about 8 years ago) I stuck with my black clothes, my short skirts, and shopped either back in NYC or Betsy Fisher on Conn. Ave. Now I find myself slipping (age is probably a contributing factor) -- I haven't worn white hose with a black skirt yet, but I worry !
Any other places besides Relish you like around town ?
Laura Zigman: You sound like me. That's exactly what happened (I was there for six years) even though I'm not sure why -- I was prepared, was certain I wouldn't fall into the same downhill slide, but I did, but eventually the short skirts and constant black slipped away (age was a factor for me, too -- I was 34 when I arrived; 39 when I left).
I actually never went to Betsy Fisher though I should have. And I used to go to the Barney's Outlet in Potomac Mills before it closed. So I guess besides Relish, Neimans, Saks, and Bloomingdales, I used to go back to NYC and shop there (mostly at Barney's co-op).
BUT DON'T GIVE IN!
Somewhere, USA:
Eileen Fisher opened in Montgomery Mall recently.
Laura Zigman: They have really beautiful things that flatter a wide variety of body-types. It's good that they opened a store nearby.
mustard seed:
The place that sells trendy second-hand clothing is the Mustard Seed in downtown Bethesda. They pay you cash on the spot for your clothes.
very cool!
Laura Zigman: Another place I never made it to! (I always drove by it, and could never figure out where to park!) But I always heard it had great stuff.
Washington, D.C.:
Washington has a reputation for being frumpy? This is news to me. Although now that I think I about it, it makes sense particularly in the suburbs of DC. I can't quite put my finger on it though, what is it that makes Washingtonians frumpy?
Laura Zigman: I think the heat has something to do with it. And the fact that Washington is a southern city and therefore still more conservative than some of the bigger, northern cities. And the fact that so much of the business that takes place, obviously, is government business, and government business isn't exactly big on self-expression. The reason other cities have a little easier time with style and fashion is that the commerce conducted there is so much more varied -- in New York, as well as in SF say, or LA, or Boston, or Chicago there's computer/internet/web companies, art/design, law, finance, advertising, fashion -- everything. DC is far more limited in it's scope. And so the dress follows the tone set by the work environments of law firms, government, non-profits.
Why I wear sneakers to work . . .:
Hi! Lively discussion here.
I began wearing sneakers to work in NYC, during the transit strike.
I continued to do so in Boston, when I walked to work.
When I moved down to DC, I continued to wear my sneakers on the Metro.
Of course, I change into nice pumps or sandals at the office.
Since I'm really hard to fit, I want to save my pumps from as much wear and tear as possible. Shoe fashions change more than sneakers, so I'd rather buy sneakers more often than have to find pumps every year that are pretty AND comfortable.
Laura Zigman: Maybe the ticket is trying to expand your sneaker wardrobe -- there are some pretty hip, pretty weird looking sneakers out there now. Nike and Prada [I don't know which one copied the other] make these really wild looking bike-shoe type sneakers in red, or black, for instance....
Laura Zigman: This was really fun. Thanks for having me, Janet and Jen, and I hope that HER sparks continued discussion in Washington about women and fashion!
Janet Bennett and Jen Chaney:
Thanks, Laura, and everyone who participated. And for the love of God, lose the white hose!
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