Bob Levey (Barbara Tyroler)

• Levey Live Archive • Column: Bob Levey • Metro Section • Talk: Metro message boards • Live Online Transcripts • Subscribe to washingtonpost.com e-mail newsletters

Q&A With Bob Levey
Washington Post Columnist
Tuesday, Nov. 5, 2002; Noon ET

"Levey Live" appears Tuesdays at noon ET. Your host is Washington Post columnist Bob Levey. This hour is your chance to talk directly to key Washington Post reporters and editors, local officials and people in the news.

Today, Bob's guest is Patricia McGuire, President of Trinity College in Washington, D.C.

Patricia McGuire

Many teachers deserve more apples than any number of students can give them. And Patricia McGuire, President of Trinity College in Washington, D.C. since 1989 is worthy of an orchard.

Before coming to Trinity, McGuire was the Assistant Dean for Development and External Affairs for Georgetown University Law Center, where she was also an adjunct professor of law teaching courses in tax exempt organizations. Earlier in her career, she was project director for Georgetown's D.C. Street Law Project. She was also a legal affairs commentator for the award-winning CBS children's newsmagazine "30 Minutes" and the Fox Television program "Panorama" in Washington, D.C.

In 2000 McGuire was appointed by D.C. Mayor Anthony Williams and the D.C. Financial Control Board to a special term on the Education Advisory Committee overseeing the D.C. Public Schools.

In June 1998 Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin appointed McGuire a member of the first-ever citizens' advisory panel on coinage. This eight member Dollar Coin Design Advisory Committee recommended the image of Sacagawea for the new dollar coin.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

Bob Levey: Good afternoon, Ms. McGuire, and thanks for joining us today on "Levey Live." Let's begin with a look at Trinity's size. Next to the major universities in the area, you're the little guy on the block. A disadvantage? An advantage?

Patricia McGuire: Hi, Bob, it's great to be with you today! Trinity's size is one of our great advantages --- with 1700 students in all degree programs, we're big enough to be interesting, but small enough to give personal attention. Students and families value that! Especially since it means that students can get to talk to the faculty directly, and generally are in classes of about 15-20 other students, not gigantic lecture halls. Trinity's bigger than some people think --- with all of our continuing ed and conference programs added, we have about 6,000+ students annually on campus. But we're small enough to feel like family.

Baltimore MD: Do you still enjoy being president of Trinity College? What have been the biggest changes and challenges for you in that role since you assumed it in 1989? What's the biggest plus of being a college president today? The biggest minus? And what are the chances of getting Levey's likeness on a coin?

Patricia McGuire: Gosh, I wish I thought of Levey's likeness on that coin!

I love being Trinity's president, been at it since 1989, still feel like a rookie some days.... Leading a lot of change to make Trinity bigger and stronger has been the greatest challenge. Learning how to roll with the experiments, good and bad, has been fun. The biggest plus? Always having an interesting day, and lots of super people around all of the time. Biggest minus? Little personal time, endless days. But I'm not complaining!

Bob Levey: You've spent big, big bucks to construct a new sports facility on campus. Why such an emphasis on sports?

Patricia McGuire: Trinity is emphasizing women's sports as part of its continuing commitment as a women's college. Since Title IX in 1972, women's sports has been revolutionized --- and Trinity wants to be a leader in all fields that advance women's leadership and education. Our large enrollment increase this fall --- 40% larger freshman class --- is also evidence that sports is really attractive for today's college student, especially young women.

Hyattsville, Md.: I drive by your campus every day on my way to work downtown, along 4th Street and Franklin Street.

What is that big new building you are constructing? It is very impressive and really fits into the campus very nicely. What is it for? Has it caused any concerns in the community?

Patricia McGuire: That wonderful new building is the Trinity Center for Women and Girls in Sports, a new athletic complex that includes a new playing field, tennis courts, basketball arena and fitness center. The Brookland and Edgewood communities will also have opportunities to use the Center, especially for organized sports and recreational programs for children and girls. Actually, we received great support from our community in developing the idea for the Center and I know the community is eager to participate in the programs we will provide there.

Bob Levey: Trinity has often been mentioned as a takeover or merger candidate. Anything bubbling on that front?

Patricia McGuire: Absolutely not! Actually, I think those rumors were around in the 1980's..... For the last ten years, Trinity has enjoyed a wonderful renaissance as THE women's educational institution in Washington, and our enrollment has grown considerably. Today we are a comprehensive university with three schools --- the College of Arts and Sciences is our historic women's college, and we also have two coeducational schools, the School of Education with graduate programs for teachers and principals, and the School of Professional Studies with undergrad and grad programs for working men and women. So, yes, men can earn Trinity degrees, too! We are definitely here to stay!

Bob Levey: Is Washington, D.C., still a prime draw for college applicants in light of Sept. 11, the anthrax mess, the sniper and the perception (still alive and well) that D.C. is the crime capital of the world?

Patricia McGuire: We thought that 9/11 would hurt us, but in fact, we now have the largest enrollment ever at Trinity --- 1700+ students --- and this fall's freshman class was 40% larger than last year. Students want to be where the action is, and Washington is definitely IT!

Arlington, Va.: President McGuire:

I hear that Hood College recently went co-ed. Is Trinity still a women's college? Why? Don't you have men in some of your programs?

Patricia McGuire: Trinity is definitely committed to retaining its historic women's college, the College of Arts and Science. We actually have the best of all possible worlds, because we also have two coeducational units, the School of Education and School of Professional Studies. We do believe that women still need and deserve the option for an education that specializes in making them successful. I put it this way: you can spend all that money to go to a school where you sit in the bleachers to cheer for some guy on the football field, or you can invest in making yourself the star at the center that others will cheer for... that's what women's colleges do, we put women at the center and make them stars!

Washington, D.C.: It seems that urban schools face so many challenges today -- especially here in D.C. I know that Trinity has many educational programs. What can colleges and universities do to make a difference in today's struggling public schools?

Patricia McGuire: Trinity's School of Education works very closely with teachers and principals in our area school systems, and our faculty is quite devoted to helping them figure out how to meet the challenges of today's students in public schools. We've also been fortunate to have some great partners in helping public school teachers to improve their teaching ability --- America Online and the Kimsey Foundation created the Educational Technology Leadership Institute at Trinity to train DC Public School teachers how to use all that technology that other companies are putting into their classrooms. We also are making many college opportunties available for excellent DCPS grads --- more than 40% of our freshmen came from DC Schools, and they wanted to achieve high marks so that they could enroll here.

Bob Levey: Call me naive, but can you please explain, once and for all, why college costs go up at a rate so much greater than inflation?

Patricia McGuire: Colleges have to invest in more than the status quo, which is what inflationary increases sustain. If our students ask for new computers, if the faculty need improved library or lab facilities, we have to invest more than simple inflationary increases. Technology and facilities are the most costly parts of making universities work today. The other factor, of course, is financial aid, also known as the 'tuition discount.' Very few students actually pay full price to go to college today, and the consumer expectation of getting a discount is pervasive, especially among middle class students. The actual amount a student pays out of pocket is usually quite a bit less than the published price... just like other consumer commodities.

Arlington, Va.: I know that Trinity markets heavily toward the adults trying to finish their degrees. I have experience teaching as an adjunct at another local university with a similar student base, and I have been quite disturbed by the attitude of many such students, who seem to think "I'm here to get my ticket punched, so don't expect me to read or think about anything." What are you doing to insure that a Trinity degree means something in an era of changing student demographics?

Patricia McGuire: That's not at all characteristic of our students. In fact, the thing that constantly amazes me about the students at Trinity is how hard they work academically, and what serious intellectual adventurers they are. Trinity has always had a very high standard for academic performance, and there's not a day that goes by that I don't hear faculty discussing student achievement, or see students talking about their papers and academic work as the central focus of their lives. It's inspiring! Students come to a college like this because they want that rigor and challenge.... that's what makes Trinity distinctive.

Bob Levey: In 1994, in a letter to the Wall Street Journal, you charged that higher education continues to discriminate against women. How can this be, if more than 50 percent of all undergraduates are female, if more than 50 percent of all med students are female, if morem than 50 percent of all law students are female?

Patricia McGuire: We're making progress, to be sure. But only about 20% of the presidents are women, and it's unlikely to find women presidents at most big name universities, with the exception of a few like Duke and Penn. More important, the percentage of women who get tenure is still low, especially in quantitative disciplines like economics and the sciences. Also, women faculty still are paid less then men on average. Title IX has had a great impact in making higher education more equitable, and certainly the majority of women now in attendance is creating change. But we still have a way to go.

Washington, D.C.: What was your reaction when Bob Levey omitted Trinity College from his recent article surveying admissions information for major colleges in the D.C. area?

Patricia McGuire: All is forgiven, now that I'm here!

Bob Levey: As I'm sure you know, the D.C. government now pays subsidies to D.C. high school graduates so they can attend land-grant colleges in other states for the same amount it would have cost them to go to UDC. Your view of this program in general, please? And your view of whether it harms Trinity by creating a dollar-fueled brain drain among its natural hometown market?

Patricia McGuire: I'm delighted that students in D.C. have a means to raise their sights about college attendance, and certainly for some this is a great program. But I'm deeply disturbed that students who choose to stay in D.C. to attend local institutions are discriminated against by this program, and no one is talking about that. Many of the students who stay here are economically very needy, and some of the students who get the largest economic benefit from the program have no need at all. It just doesn't seem fair. Last year, we compiled stats that showed, for example, that 22 DC students attended the University of Michigan on this program and received about $220,000 to subsidize their education. Here at Trinity, we had 81 participants, receiving a total grant of $181,000. Trinity provided scholarship support to DC residents last year in excess of $1 million from our own funds --- and more this year. Yet, even with this great support, we know that most of our DC residents need even more support, but they get very little from the TAG program. Most states have programs to provide "need-based" aid to their local citizens, but D.C. has no such program. It should. If D.C. is serious about encouraging education for all citizens here, it must do better to support local universities and opportunities. Including the University of the District of Columbia --- yes, a private college president will also say that UDC has not been well treated in this program --- indeed, the TAG program implies that students should not consider their own local university. That's not the way any other state would treat the local land grant institution.

Laurel, Maryland: My daughter is a junior just starting to look at colleges. What should she be looking for to be sure her college choice is the right one for her? How should I, as a parent, evaluate colleges? How does she, how do we, make our final decision?

Patricia McGuire: Great question. The most important thing for parents and students is to assess whether the college is the right fit for the student's talents and personal style, and whether she will get the attention she needs and deserves to grow well and fully. Too many consumers choose colleges based on big names and football or basketball teams --- that's not going to return value for the time, talent or money invested in the education. You should always visit the campus, see if you get to talk to actual faculty and staff outside of admissions, and students, too. What is the track record of the school for supporting all students, not just a few? That's going to make her successful in college.

Bob Levey: Being known and getting known..... A big problem for any college, and an especially big one for yours, I'd venture. Recently, I was riding the bus near your campus. A woman got on at the Brookland Metro stop and asked the driver to let her know when he came to Trinity College. He said he didn't know where it was! Boy Scout Bob leapt to the rescue, but sheesh! You've been there for dozens of years! Do you need bigger signs, bigger maps, purple streamers?

Patricia McGuire: Kudos, Bob, we'll send you a Trinity T shirt! We've got banners on the street and signs all around... and 105 years of being here! But thanks to you, now more people will know about us! Spreading the good news is a big part of my life!

Oxon Hill, Maryland: I am glad you mentioned financial aid and the costs of going to college.

Our son is a senior, and we are finding the whole financial aid process bewildering and overwhelming. It's hard for us to figure out what the true cost to attend a college will be. It also seems that with financial aid, we may be able to afford a private college, which he would prefer, instead of a large public university.

Where do we start with navigating the financial aid maze, and can private college be as affordable as public universities?

Patricia McGuire: Great question, I'll try to be brief. You should be able to get help from the financial aid offices of the colleges your son is considering, and the quality of that help should be one of the factors you evaluate in picking the college. If it's still soup to you after talking with the aid officers, then keep looking. It's not as daunting as its seems, but the "package" has a lot of parts, various loans and grants, some federal, some state, some based on the school. You have to fill out the federal financial aid forms and provide your family financial information, that's essential. Can you afford a private college? Certainly, if the college works with you to develop the right package for you. But if they're not interested in talking with you, move on.

Bob Levey: Trinity is a college, not a university. Other colleges are pining to grow into universities. Is Trinity?

Patricia McGuire: Actually, our formal classification is as a comprehensive university, we just haven't changed our name. But we have three schools and award about half of our degrees at the master's level, which makes us a university. Will we change our name? Stay tuned....

Vienna, VA: Why is your school open only to women? Schools that declare themselves "men only" would probably face sex disrimination charges in today's climate. Even formerly all-black colleges like Grambling and Tuskegee would probably have to admit whites who would want to attend.....and vice-versa to schools like Bob Jones.

Patricia McGuire: First of all, we do admit men in our School of Education and School of Professional Studies.

More on point, when Title IX became law in 1972, historical single-sex colleges, both male and female, were exempt. There are still a few men's colleges --- Hampden Sydney, Morehouse, Wabash. But women's colleges, like historically black colleges, were created to remediate the historic discrimination against women, and the need for such remediation continues for many women today.

Bob Levey: Back in my day (don't you dare ask), women were routinely slandered for being in college only so they could snag a husband. "Getting an MRS degree," the wits called it. Do female students on your campus ever think about college as a way to find a husband?

Patricia McGuire: Good Lord, no, that's really a throwback. Actually, Trinity Women always prided themselves on being about their education and professional goals. Trinity had some of the great women "firsts" in this nation professionally --- Jane Marilley '44 who founded Courtesy Associates was the first woman on the Greater Washington Board of Trade. Nancy Pelosi '62 is majority whip in Congress, the highest ranking woman ever in Congress. Today, Kathleen Sebelius '70 is being elected Governor of Kansas, only the 12th woman in history to become a governor. Maggie Williams '77 was Hillary Clinton's chief of staff as First Lady, and now is Bill Clinton's chief. We're serious about women's achievement. And, yes, many if not most Trinity Women are married, but that's not what they came to college to do.

Alexandria, Virginia: It seems like cities such as Boston and Philadelphia are known as higher education cities, "college towns," that attract many college students, and then fuel companies and innovation (i.e., Boston and the Route 128 computer firms, and Stanford and the Silicon Valley).

The Washington region has great colleges and universities, yet most people don't think of D.C. as a college town like Boston.

As chair of the Consortium of D.C. Universities, how do you think the region, and the universities themselves, canwork together to promote Washington as a great place to attend college? How do we get businesses outside of Washington to see that the higher education community has so many resources to offer their companies and their employees?

Is this a priority of the Consortium and places like the Board of Trade?

Patricia McGuire: It's truly a top priority for the Consortium, and an increasingly important priority for the Board of Trade. Washington is a great "college town" --- that's why I came here 32 years ago! (Ouch!) It's the greatest learning lab in the world. I think higher ed gets overshadowed by the federal government, but the fact remains that if a student wants to learn directly from the people making the policy that governs much of this nation and the world, she should be right here! Also, the value of the economic engine of the universities surpasses $13 billion here... we're a big part of what makes this region so great!

Bob Levey: Please return with us to 1998, when various big wheels in town wanted to create a "Marion Barry chair" for the soon-to-step-down mayor. You blocked it. Why? How?

Patricia McGuire: That was a terrible idea. It was floated as a way to get the mayor to leave office --- not because of any particular academic value. I opposed it vigorously because universities are not parking places for retired politicians, although some might think so. If universities don't guard their academic integrity each day, many people --- politicians, business leaders, funders --- would turn us into playgrounds for their own agendas. We must remain focused on excellence in academic programs and independence in our organizational forms and thought processes.

Washington, DC: Does Trinity still use the Honor System in all three of its schools?

Patricia McGuire: Trinity's Honor System is definitely alive and well. It does apply to all three schools, since Honor is a principle that defies age, academic structure or program. We consider Honor to be an essential principle for all learning here.

Bob Levey: Any impression from your side about drug and alcohol abuse among today's college students? Up from ten years ago? Down? Same?

Patricia McGuire: I'm pleased to say that this is not a big problem among Trinity students, but around the nation, there have been many such problems, predominantly in universities with fraternities. Much effort has been expended by deans of students and university presidents to address binge drinking, but often the problems are prevalent in high school well before the students come to college. Although we have not had particular problems here, we are constantly vigilant and educate our students about healthy lifestyles.

Bob Levey: Is Trinity active in community service? Do you wish it were more so?

Patricia McGuire: Trinity does a great deal of community service, but we can always do more. Our service is clear in several ways, like the after-school support we give to Shaed Elementary School or the work our students and faculty do with Aids patients through Food and Friends. We have large institutional commitments to support students from D.C. through big financial aid packages, which is also a form of service, more than $1 million annually. Also, through the Trinity Center for Women and Girls in Sports, we will have even better facilities to work with our partners like D.C. Scores and the Washington Tennis and Education Foundation, the Girl Scouts and others to provide programming for children in the community. We also give countless hours of volunteer support to schools and teachers in the region.

Bob Levey: A question about Trinity's name... To be put it mildly, there are a whole of Trinity Colleges. Don't press me, but I can think of one in Connecticut, one in California, several elsewhere. What if I told you that you should change the name of Trinity-D.C. so you stand out more?

Patricia McGuire: We're trying to call ourselves "Trinity Washington" more and more, not a formal name change, but to associate our location with our name. You're right, there are several, and none of us are related!

Washington, DC: What is your vision for the future of Trinity College? Will DC be able to sustain a women's college?

Patricia McGuire: Absolutely. Trinity is the only women's college in the Washington region, and if we didn't exist, we'd have to be invented. The opening of the Trinity Center for Women and Girls in Sports is only going to dramatize our importance more!

Georgetown: What plans are there for long-term health of the Library? Collection development? Staffing? Physical condition? Digital library?

Thanks

Patricia McGuire: The library is definitely on the agenda in our facilities development plan. We are online with the Washington Research Library Consortium already, and work with all of the university libraries in the area. Our librarians are a great group who are constantly finding new ways to open the library to new learning and research opportunities.

Arlington, VA: I am a Trinity grad who attended co-ed schools until Trinity. I am a big fan of single-sex education, but my daughters aren't quite sure what it's all about. Can you speak to the successes of graduates of women's colleges, and the case for women's institutions?

Patricia McGuire: Many alumnae ask the same question. Women's institutions continue to specialize in putting women first, in making our students as successful as they can be. Contrary to some old and outmoded stereotypes, we are not remote, isolated, man-hating places! There are plenty of men around here, but we put women first in everything that we do. We continue to be highly successful in promoting women's achievement, and it shows in the lives of our grads, like Caryle Murphy '68 a Pulitzer-Prize winning reporter with the Washington Post who just published a great book Passion for Islam, or Kellyanne Fitzpatrick Conway '89 who owns the polling company, or Cathleen Black who is always on the list of the Fortune 50 most powerful women in business (she's president of Hearst Magazines). Our track record speaks volumes about our success!!

Bob Levey: Many huge, "name" universities either have (or have had) female presidents. I'm thinking of Duke and Brown (both now headed by women) and The University of Chicago (formerly head by Hannah Gray). Is the day coming when gender will matter very little, and experience will matter very much?

Patricia McGuire: I sure hope so. But as a female president I know that there are still places where it would be very hard for a woman president to be acceptable as the choice... we're making progress, but we need to keep working at it.

Bob Levey: Many college faculty members--and college presidents--complain about how poorly prepared today's high school graduates are. Your view of this?

Patricia McGuire: High schools generally are not preparing students as well as we once were, regardless of urban or suburban, affluent or low income characteristics. Students from urban schools are even more disadvantaged by the conditions of those schools. Our approach at Trinity is simply this: we're in the business of making women successful, and if a woman has the desire, we have the ability to make her well educated and strong. If that takes a little extra for some women because their prior educations failed, so be it, we do not begrudge the extra effort. On graduation day, the reward is clear!

Bob Levey: U.S. News and World Report has reshaped the entire college application process with its annual rankings. OK, fine, you and I can agree that anyone who chooses a college out of a magazine deserves our sympathy. But many people do this--amazingly enough. What's your comment about this new wrinkle?

Patricia McGuire: Caveat Emptor! Buyer Beware! Rankings have little to do with the quality of the learning experience... I actually think that many students and parents are quite savvy about this, and they look under the magazine cover and around the stats to learn more. They should. Numbers are not the best way to determine if your child will become well educated at the school.

Bob Levey: Many thanks to our guest, Patricia McGuire. Be sure to join us next Tuesday, when "Levey Live" takes a further look at college admissions--specifically at which Washington-area high schools send the largest percentage of their graduates to "name" colleges, and why. Our guest will be journalist Reshma Yaqub. That discussion will begin at noon Eastern time on Nov. 12.

Bob Levey:

That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.

Stay tuned to Live Online:

Sally Squires: Lean Plate Club at 1 p.m. ET
Election 2002: CNN's Tucker Carlson at 3 p.m. ET
Election 2002: The Post's Robert G. Kaiser at 9 p.m. ET
Election 2002: Post Metro Columnist Marc Fisher at 9 p.m. ET

Did you know that you can follow more than one Live Online discussion at the same time? Just open another browser window and toggle back and forth between discussions! And, if you miss one, catch up with the Live Online transcripts.

Keep up with the latest in news, sports, politics and entertainment with washingtonpost.com e-mail newsletters.

Personalize your Post with mywashingtonpost.com. Get customized news, traffic, weather and more.

   |      |