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Media
Backtalk
With Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, Aug. 27, 2002; Noon EDT
Consumers used to get their news from newspapers, magazines and evening broadcasts from the three television networks. Now, with the Internet, cable TV and 24-hour news networks, the news cycle is faster and more constant, with every minute carrying a new deadline. But clearly more news and more news outlets are not necessarily better. And just because the press has the ability to cover a story doesn't always mean they should -- or that they'll do it well.
Howard Kurtz has been The Washington Post's media reporter since 1990. He is also the host of CNN's "Reliable Sources" and the author of "Media Circus," "Hot Air," "Spin Cycle" and "The Fortune Tellers: Inside Wall Street's Game of Money, Media and Manipulation." Kurtz talks about the press and the stories of the day in "Media
Backtalk."
The transcript follows
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and
hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Mt. Lebanon, Pa.:
Is there any ratings feedback available yet on the talk show likes of Donahue, Nachman, and whoever else? Are these guys making money for their networks or are they likely to go the way of Keyes, Dr. Laura, Roseanne, Martin Short, Queen Latifah, and the dodo bird? Frankly, Phil is a real snoozer. Thanks much. HLB
Howard Kurtz: Donahue, to my surprise, is basically tanking in the ratings, causing much consternation over at MSNBC. He's being trounced by Bill O'Reilly and also losing by about 2-1 to Connie Chung. I expected Donahue's confrontational skills and 30-year daytime following (not to mention his status as a lonely liberal on TV) to give him a boost. But there's so much more competition now and he hasn't been able to get much traction. The other day he was shouting at a priest booked to defend the notion that Jews can't go to heaven.
Knoxville, Tenn.:
Mr. Kurtz,
On the election stories the press are covering why is the story on Katherine Harris
in Florida not receiving more attention. Her hypocrisy in asking for special privaliges for the rules to be bent for her illegal application to be accepted. When in the 2000 recount she would not allow Palm Beach County an extra hour to get their results in because she said the rules could not be bent for them.
Howard Kurtz: In part because she's considered a virtual lock for the House seat she's campaigning for in a very Republican district in Florida. Nationally, at least, Harris's screwup in not resigning as secretary of state by the legal deadline was a one-day story. Despite the enormous ink she got during the '00 recount, Harris remains a minor figure. The press would probably be more interested if she was in a competitive race.
Washington, D.C.:
Howard,
CNN.com used to be the first place I would go to to get news online (sorry washingtonpost.com, you're number #2). However, last week it was unbearably annoying. Instead of putting "real news" as their top story, for a solid week, all they had were those stupid terrorist videos.
It was very annoying, and it was, without a doubt overkill (no pun intended).
Howard Kurtz: On Jon Stewart's Daily Show, he joked that CNN had shown great restraint by showing that dying-dog video only 200,000 times. The tapes were a good story, but CNN kept promoting them 24/7. The beauty of a Web site, of course, is that you can click away in nanoseconds if you don't like the fare.
Arlington, Va.:
I don't understand how a Republican administration can posture to the brink of war and then criticize the press for speculating about Iraq. Also, why is Ari Fleischer wearing worn jeans and makeup at briefings? To prove they're in Texas?
Howard Kurtz: I was puzzled by Bush and Rumsfeld acting like the press was overheated on Iraq when they have done so much to fuel the fire. It seemed to me that the White House might be signalling some sort of cooling-off period. Instead, we have Cheney ratcheting up the rhetoric and unnamed aides putting out the word that they don't really need Hill approval to go after Saddam. Hard to say the press is hyping the story under these circumstances. As for Ari, I'd say that wearing casual clothes in Texas in August is a sign of sanity.
Forestville, Md.:
Um ... you're surprised Donahue is tanking? Pray tell why? He is smug, even arrogant, acerbic, and so far left of the average American in his politics and morals (or lack thereof) that you couldn't possibly have expected him to succeed. Except for inside the Beltway and Manhattan liberals, who is watching the guy?
Howard Kurtz: Not enough viewers, at the moment. But it's possible for a cable host to be entertaining even to those who don't agree with his political views.
Brandermill, Va.:
What did you think of Fox doing a piece on the New York Times bias, with occasional Fox panel member Paul Gigot of the Wall Street Journal being interviewed? Do you think the New York Times was right in not sending a current staff member to defend themselves?
Howard Kurtz: Well, I sort of started this with a piece last week about the conservative war on the New York Times over its coverage of Iraq, and what pundits on the right see as the newspaper beating the antiwar drums on its front page. Times editors declined to make any comment. I have a hard time understanding why people in the communications business don't communicate when questions are raised about what they do. It's one of the things that people can't stand about the media.
Waldorf, Md.:
With all the tough, war talk from our Vice President, you think the media may recount how (1) his firm, Halliburton, traded with Iraq in the 90's and (2)he artfully avoided service to country in the 60's thru multiple deferments?
Howard Kurtz: The first point has certainly been mentioned in some news accounts. I'm not sure the second one is all that relevant. People generally know that Cheney didn't serve - this came up during the campaign - but he is, after all, a former secretary of defense. And I don't think his own military record or lack thereof discredits the move-against-Iraq message that the White House clearly wants him to deliver.
Cleveland, Ohio:
With regard to the debate about the potential war with Iraq, I see a difference between some former official who is giving just his honest professional opinion by an article, Gen. Scowcroft, Sec. Baker, and another former official who is giving not only his opinion by an article but also advocating and pushing it by repeatedly appearing from channel to channel and from show to show, Dr. Kissinger, I might add Richard Perle, Ken Adelman for that matter. Does Journalism, in general, sense the distinction between the two cases? Could you elaborate a little bit please?
Howard Kurtz: I'm not sure I see the moral distinction. If your view is that we shouldn't attack Iraq, at least under the current circumstances, what's the difference if you say that only in print or say it in television interviews as well? Kissinger has hardly been a stranger to the TV cameras. What happens is that when one of these foreign-policy mavens writes an op-ed for the NYT or WP or WSJ, bookers besiege them with calls. So in their minds, I'm sure, they're simply responding to interview requests rather than actively promoting themselves. But again, what's wrong with using television to join the debate?
La Plata, Md.:
Howard, you mentioned The Daily Show with Jon Stewart earlier. The show seems to come up in many discussions with journalists. Do you all like the show and watch it regularly? I admit, I like it, but I didn't think people actually in the journalism profession watch it. Also, is it true that many younger people actually watch The Daily Show for their news? That might be scary.
Howard Kurtz: I watch it when I can and I've also interviewed Jon Stewart on my show. I think the Daily Show is one of the wittiest programs around, particularly in its depiction of the media as stupid and sensational. It makes sense that people with more than a passing interest in the press would like Jon Stewart's program. He, by the way, is very savvy about politics and the media.
Annandale, Virginia:
How does a White House correspondent retain her self respect when she is "managed" beyond all reason by those inside the West Wing? Bush and Rumsfeld ridicule the press for asking about Iraq and then Cheney makes a major speach on it -- did Mary Matalin write this thing after the "frenzy" exchange?
Howard Kurtz: Not sure I see how reporting on what the vice president had to say is being "managed" by the White House. Part of our job is to transmit what senior officials say. Many journalists observed that the Iraq "frenzy" that Bush and Rummy tried to attribute to the press had in fact been stoked by the administration. What reporters try to do is interpret, analyze and explain what the administration does, not just mindlessly transmit its rhetoric.
Villanova, Pa.:
Regarding last week's Georgia primary, do you think that relations between Jews and blacks are actually souring, or was the media just hyping that angle? Maxine Waters and Cynthia McKinney's fathers' comments alone sound as if they are desperate to blame anyone except the incumbents for their defeats.
Howard Kurtz: I don't think anyone is suggesting that one race in Georgia has damaged black-Jewish relations overall. But the McKinney campaign clearly had its polarizing aspects, even before the congresswoman's father blamed "J-E-W-S" for trying to defeat her. It's true that some Muslims, along with Louis Farrakhan, backed McKinney, and that supporters of Israel worked for her defeat. But that meant they were working for another black candidate, Denise Majette, who wound up beating McKinney easily.
Boston, Mass.:
Re: Waldorf, Md..
Do you find in ironic that someone who has not served in the armed forces would speak in front of the Veterans of Foreign Wars about going to war with Iraq. Has anyone in the media questioned this?
Howard Kurtz: Seems to me we've been through this a few million times with Bill Clinton. You don't have to have been a military veteran to serve as commander-in-chief. And in Cheney's case, unlike in Clinton's, I'm not aware of any allegation that he got his student deferments improperly. If someone wants to argue that he shouldn't be veep as a result, a campaign is a good time for that debate. But it seems ludicrous to use it against him now, decades later, especially when he's already presided over the Gulf War as Pentagon chief for Bush's dad.
Washington, D.C.:
Do you see a connection between the Iraq frenzy and the decrease in consumer confidence? I think the administration has harmed the economic recovery with all its war rhetoric and now trying to blame it on the media.
Howard Kurtz: I certainly saw a connection yesterday, when oil shot up to $29 a barrel on all the Iraq war talk. Such a war would clearly have a big impact on the economy and probably contributes to a sense of uncertainty. But my sense is that consumer confidence has been hit to a much greater degree by the recession, the sinking stock market, the corporate corruption scandals and lots of layoffs.
Mechanicsburg, Pa.:
From ArmyTimes.com:
"The most elaborate war game the U.S. military has ever held was rigged so that it appeared to validate the modern, joint-service war-fighting concepts it was supposed to be testing, according to the retired Marine lieutenant general who commanded the game’s Opposing Force."
Why is this not headline material? That general, Paul Van Riper, was so frustrated with the rigged exercise that he said he quit midway through the game.
The major media is missing the real stories in the build-up to the upcoming attack on Iraq. Not only that, but they are playing into the hands of the Bush administration, which loves the fact that the ongoing hawks/doves arguments are pushing Haliburton and Harken off the front pages. Shameful.
Howard Kurtz: Sounds like a good story. But as much as Bush/Cheney would love to see Harken/Halliburton disappear, more than just politics is at stake in this Iraq debate. The administration's credibility and potentially thousands of American lives, for example. Sometimes I think we fall into the trap of believing that every single thing an officeholder does is for short-term partisan gain.
Harrisonburg, Va.:
I can't understand what has happened to the
Larry King Show. Used to be up-to-date topics and people in the news. For several months now it is "aging" entertainers. When the public was talking about Enron, etc., he was interviewing Phyllis Diller! I don't imagine many people even remember some of the people he is interviewing. He is just not relevant anymore.
Howard Kurtz: The show does seem to have tilted toward entertainment and human-interest dramas. I note, however, that King is promoting an interview with Jesse Ventura tonight.
Washington, D.C.:
Howard,
I'm a big fan and think you are very fair and objective in covering the major and minor media. However, did you just call Phil Donahoe the "lonely liberal"? What about Dan, Tom, Katie and Matt, Chris Matthews ... ect. ... ect. ... ect. His ratings stink because we already have the liberal view from all of these anchors. Donahue is no diffrent from them.
Thanks a lot.
Take care
Howard Kurtz: Well, I was looking at the O'Reilly/Hannity world of cable hosts. The few liberals (Carville, Begala) are almost always balanced by conservative partners (Novak, Tucker Carlson).
Chicago, Ill.:
Howie,
How do you like the new or not so new format of Crossfire? I admit I enjoy it greatly and I try my best not to miss it because it is the only channel you see a strong voice from the left. But lately I have been extremely annoyed by the interruption of the program by so called "news conference" which has no news such as the doctors' conference on the head-connected twins and all the news conferences of missing children. Sometimes, almost nothing new or of value came out of such conferences which were expected in most time. Frequently when I flipped to MSNBC or FoxNews, they were not covering the same conference. Does CNN think every news conference should be covered live no matter what? Would it not suffice such press conferences covered with a bit of delay at their regular news alert?
By the way, every time Brit Hume mentions "fair, balanced, and unafraid", I want to vomit. If the man has an ounce of integrity, he should not be repeating such lies day after day. What do you think?
Howard Kurtz: I happen to agree that the endless cutting to news conferences that tell us nothing new about the latest child-snatching or murder probe has become a cable epidemic. The cable nets love to trumpet their "breaking news" logos because it adds a sense of urgency (and hopefully ratings), and because they don't want to cede the field to their rivals. But they often seem to forget that people tune in because they like particular programs or hosts, who are constantly being upstaged by some long-winded sheriff in some remote county saying little about the crime du jour.
Bloomington, Ind.:
Why does the mainstream media consistantly ignore third party candidates, especially Green Party candidates? In the California gubernatorial race, for example, which has received reams of media attention about two unseemly cadidates, it is never mentioned that Californians have an alternate choice.
Howard Kurtz: I think we cover third-party candidates who we perceive as having at least an outside chance of winning, a la Jesse Ventura, or tipping the outcome one way or the other, as with Ross Perot and Ralph Nader. Sometimes this journalistic judgment is flawed, but that's the usual standard. It seems fair to say that either Gray Davis or Bill Simon is going to be the next governor of California.
Gambrills, Md.:
Do you think there has been an increase in missing persons stories in the media lately? If so, will it continue when "bigger" stories hit the airwaves?
Howard Kurtz: When we either invade Baghdad or the Dow drops to 6,000.
Dallas, Tex.:
I read the Post headline, "Secret Federal Court Rebuffs Ashcroft, FBI," and thought, ohmygosh! Ashcroft has really crossed the line this time. Read the article and found out the court was talking about actions of the Justice Department and FBI prior to 2000. If memory serves, Mr. Ashcroft was still a senator in 2000. I realize the court was rebuffing a request from Ashcroft, but the rebuke was for the previous administration. Funny how the article never mentioned that.
Howard Kurtz: I think that's a fair criticism. The fact that many of these events occurred on Janet Reno's watch, and that a judge had praised Ashcroft for trying to improve things, should have been made clear.
Richmond, Va.:
Can ANYTHING be done to stop the inane news bantering of the CNN morning team -- it's beyond painful to watch and hear and leaves only the BBC (not enough U.S. news) for people who don't want entertaining news -- actual news is really enough for some of us. Headline News is even worse, especially the bizarre and inappropriate "headlines" for the news ticker.
Howard Kurtz: I think the Paula Zahn show is more serious much of the time than some of its rivals. But there's an easy answer to your dilemma. It's called a remote control.
Manassas, Va.:
Now that the controversy over Terry Neal of washingtonpost.com using "Talking Points" as the name of his column (Josh Marshall of the blog "Talking Points Memo" had protested) is over, do you have any comments on how The Post handled the situation? Do you agree that "Talking Points" is generic? washingtonpost.com:
Note that Talking Points is an online-only feature of washingtonpost.com; it does not appear in the newspaper.
Howard Kurtz: Even if it is generic, I thought we could have come up with a more distinctive name since Josh Marshall had become closely identified online with Talking Points.
Re: The Daily Show:
I have actually found that I get more news from a 30 minute Daily Show than I get from the 30 minute NBC Nightly News. So yes, I do get news from TDS. It's the only television news I watch, and supplements the copious amounts of news I get from various newspapers, the Internet, and NPR.
Howard Kurtz: We'll put you down as a Jon Stewart fan. Actually, past surveys have shown that some people get their political information from Leno and Letterman. So I, for one, don't scoff at their cultural importance.
Ft. Lauderdale, Fla.:
Dear Mr. Kurtz,
Now that Ariel Sharon has cancelled his trip to Florida, the race for governor is beginning to become more interesting. How many of the National Media will be present for the debate between Bill McBride and Janet Reno? Don't underestimate Bill McBride. His ability to wow an audience is ready for Prime Time. He is a very sexy guy.
Howard Kurtz: Didn't know the last point was a factor in the race.
Houston, Tex.d:
In reference to the FISA stories, I noticed that as well, it seems the articles almost always bury the fact that 74 of these 75 cases were undertaken by the previous administration. I'll admit Ashcroft has his flaws, but surely Reno was no saint either, so I don't see why there seems to be an underreporting of the fact that most of these cases were under her watch.
Howard Kurtz: That's a fair point.
New York:
Howard,
You are a great reporter and I love your work. I know you occasionally see "The Daily Show." Jim Lehrer was on last week and he and Jon Stewart were talking about NewsHour as compared to the cable news nonsense. What are the ratings for Newshour, how do they compare with say -- just to pick a generic show -- "Wolf Blitzer Reports" -- and if "NewsHour" is close to or better than typical cable ratings, why doesn't one of the cable networks replace their silly news with a serious show in the style of "NewsHour" (or by hiring Jim Lehrer himself)? Any thoughts?
Howard Kurtz: I happened to see that program and loved when Stewart asked Lehrer why he had dumped MacNeil. The ratings for Lehrer's NewsHour are actually quite strong, far higher than most cable news shows. The difference is that Lehrer operates within the relatively protected environment of PBS and doesn't have to worry about such matters as selling advertising. Still, you're not the first to suggest that cable (or one of the Big Three networks) would do well to emulate the NewsHour, but the cable trend is in the opposite direction.
Baltimore, Md.:
When did press decide that Judicial Watch was no longer a far right- wing anti-Clinton group but, as the Post referred to them today “a legal watch dog group?” Don’t they kind of owe the group an apology for what I can only assume is a bad mischaracterization of them for so many years?
Thanks for pointing out the use of "conservative" to describe groups and people. I'm now seeing it in a lot of places where I would have missed it before including in the caption of a picture (along with two other spots in the article) of "conservative commentator" Bill O'Reilly for a New York Times business section article on his investing strategy. When do you think I’ll be able to read the article on “liberal commentator" Phil Donahue?
Howard Kurtz: Donahue is one guy who seems to be attached to the L-word fairly regularly. I wrote an item a few weeks back about how the press was describing Judicial Watch in more neutral terms now that it was suing the Bush administration:
In reporting earlier this month that Klayman had sued Vice President Cheney in connection with his tenure as CEO of the energy firm Halliburton, CBS, CNN and NBC described the organization as "a watchdog group," while ABC called it "a legal activist group." The Media Research Center cited numerous instances in which the networks labeled the group "conservative" during the Clinton era.
In fairness, founder Larry Klayman describes himself as conservative, and it wasn't apparent during the Clinton years that he planned to beat up on both political parties.
In fairness, Judicial Watch founder Klayman
Long Beach, Calif.:
If public opinion, and now Congress,
has been declared irrelevent in regards to
war with Iraq, at what point do we stop covering it in the press?
Howard Kurtz: I hope we never stop covering dissent. And the Bush team, whatever its legal arguments, knows full well that it can't go to war with Iraq without support from both Congress and the public. That's what this debate is all about.
Thanks for the chat, folks.
Grosse Pointe, Mich.:
C'mon, Howard, show us your true
stripes. You are way too careful to
consider both sides of every issue.
As Paula Zahn would say, you are so
balanced it makes me SICK!
Howard Kurtz: Sorry to upset you.
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