Peggy Lee

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Peggy Lee: Appreciation
With David Torresen
Webmaster, PeggyLee.com
Friday, Jan.. 25, 2002; 1 p.m. EST

Singing legend Peggy Lee died Monday at 81. Her 50-year career stretched from Benny Goodman and the big-band era to the early 90's with her Grammy-nominated album, "The Peggy Lee Songbook: There'll Be Another Spring." Her soft, smoky voice and cool demeanor made her one of the most distinctive vocalists of the 20th century.

David Torresen, webmaster of PeggyLee.com, was online Friday, Jan. 25, at 1 p.m. EST, to talk about Lee's long and multifaceted career.

David Torresen

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

David Torresen: Hello everyone. I’m honored that the Washington Post asked me to participate in this online appreciation of the late, great Miss Peggy Lee. I’ll be honest from the start: I don’t have all the answers to your questions! So although this is set up as a Q&A type forum, I want to also encourage you to submit your own observations about her singing, her songs, her performance style, and so on. To those of you who saw her in live performance, I’d appreciate reading any reminiscences you might have.

The organizer suggested I start by saying a bit about www.PeggyLee.com, which some of you may have had the chance to view. With considerable assistance from a techno-savvy friend, I began working on the site in mid-1997, initially out of frustration that Peggy had no significant presence on the Web. There were numerous, comprehensive appreciation pages for, say, Judy Garland and Frank Sinatra at that time (I should single out “The Judy Garland Database” as an exceptional website -- a veritable museum, and beautifully designed), but there wasn’t much about many of their peers -- usually just a single page of text with a photo or two, if that much. This continues to be the case with numerous “giants” of 20th Century American popular music; for example, there’s really nothing of real substance on the Web about Ella Fitzgerald, unless I’m missing something. (Ella fans, unite!)

Anyway, this “pet project” was immediately gratifying to me, as I was suddenly contacted by Peggy Lee fans from all over the world, most of them very encouraging, resourceful, and brimming with insight. I heard from people in her of Jamestown, North Dakota, where she has long been a “hometown hero.” From World War II servicemen who saw her perform with Benny Goodman. From many lucky folks who saw her at the height of her nightclub career, at legendary spots like Basin Street East, Ciro’s, the Copacabana, the Sands and the Cocoanut Grove. From musicians who so proud to have worked with her. From radio hosts preparing musical tribute broadcasts for her. From a woman trying to locate an obscure Peggy recording from the 1940s at her dying father’s request. From young people only just discovering her music, and with great enthusiasm. From many people from England, where she has long had a large and ardent following. And so on. Then, in 2000, I had the great opportunity to meet some members of her family and management team -- wonderful people, all, who keep Peggy’s (and her musical legacy’s) well-being always uppermost in their minds. We now operate the site collaboratively, and I can’t tell you what a meaningful experience this all has been, and continues to be. So, with that said, let me try to do justice to some of your thoughtful questions. Please keep them coming, along with any observations you may have.

Seal Harbor, Maine: Peggy Lee is often described as a perfectionist - to what is this need for perfection attributed?

David Torresen: I’ve most frequently seen the “perfectionist” remark made in relation to her concert and nightclub performances which, as her solo career progressed, became increasingly well-crafted, more so than acts by other singers of the day. As this (favorable) reputation developed over the years, so did remarks about her perfectionism. She put enormous time and effort into selecting songs (she changed her repertoire often), working with arrangers and musicians, rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsing, and paying careful attention to technical considerations (sound, lighting), all the visual elements in any given venue, sequencing of songs, and so on. In my quest for reviews of her performances through the decades (she continued performing into the mid-1990s), writer after writer praised her meticulous attention to detail, and yet most also went on to say that her shows always had an air of spontaneity to them. (I’m not whitewashing when I say that negative, or even indifferent, reviews of Peggy’s performances are exceptionally rare.) There was a fascinating, hour-long documentary back in 1969 specifically about Peggy’s performance preparation process; it’s clear throughout that she works herself, and the people around her, hard -- and everyone appears to understand that the musically satisfying results are worth all the hard work.

Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada (above North Dakota): There seems to be a lot of good film and videotape (and pre-videotape kinescope film) on Miss Lee going back to the 1940s. Could some of it be used to make say, a PBS special tribute or a DVD or video to remind people why Peggy Lee is worth remembering and revisiting? ... It's nice to see welcome new faces like Diana Krall paying tribute and helping to remind us there is more to popular music than Britney Spears, etc.

David Torresen: I’m certainly in agreement with you -- a video retrospective would be welcomed. So would a comprehensive documentary along the lines of recent PBS and A&E specials about Ella Fitzgerald, Judy Garland, Irving Berlin, Rosemary Clooney, Perry Como and others, which were all of good-to-great standard in my opinion. (It’s always fascinating to see peers, family members, etc. discuss a singer from firsthand knowledge of him/her.) As you may know, a few Peggy performances are available on VHS or DVD. Last year a 4-DVD set called “The Judy Garland Show Collection” included the 1963 episode with guest star Peggy. A mid-1980s concert from Atlantic City called “The Quintessential Peggy Lee” has long been available on VHS. But this is the tip of the iceberg; since she was a true “fixture” on television shows throughout the 1950s and 1960s (including some of her own specials), there is so much more material, and hopefully it will work its way into rebroadcast or commercial release. If you’re ever in New York City or Beverly Hills, you can visit one of the two branches of the Museum of Television and Radio, and there you can privately screen any number of her TV appearances. They have some fascinating programs in their collection.

Takoma Park: How long did Peggy Lee continue to record new music?

David Torresen: Her last album was called "Moments Like This," recorded in 1992 and released the following year. She recorded one more song after that, "I See You," which is on the various-artists CD "The Benny Carter Songbook, Volume One" (Musicmasters). Quite a touching and fitting final recording.

Washington, D.C.: I know that Peggy Lee wrote many of the songs that she sang? Did she write mostly lyrics? Was this mostly special material for herself? Are there important recordings of her songs sung by others?

David Torresen: She wrote mostly lyrics, but other times collaborated (musically) with composers, and sometimes both words and music herself. Within PeggyLee.com, if you go to the section about her compositions, you'll find a fairly long list of other singers who recorded some of her songs. Including quite a few "cream of the crop" vocalists...

From The UK: Hi David,

It's been a sad week indeed for us all, the passing of such a talented lady.

I was wondering whether you could clarify if Ii am right in thinking Peggy did a duet with Gilbert O'Sullivan sometime in the 1990's -- I am a new fan and would like to know more about this song in particular.
Thank You

David Torresen: Yes she did -- I'm foggy on the exact year, but it was in the early 1990s. The song is called "Can't Think Straight," and it's available on at least one Gilbert O'Sullivan CD. You can search under "song title" within CDNow.com for it.

Downtown D.C.: I heard on NPR that "Fever" was originally a record by what sounded like an R&B artist. A lot of white singers had big financial successes with homogenized versions of work by black singers and writers. Did other records of hers have this background? Did she say anything about what she thought of being in this position?

David Torresen: Little Willie John was the first singer to record "Fever." Peggy's version added several stanzas of lyrics for which she was never formally credited (i.e.. songwriting royalties), even though they now appear on sheet music. Another song she learned from a black (blues) singer was her huge early hit "Why Don't You Do Right?" by Lil Green. In interviews Peggy always made sure to discuss her great admiration for Lil. She recorded several of Ray Charles' songs -- she was one his earliest champions, and one of the first singers, black or white, to "cover" his material. On her 1961 "Basin Street East" album she sings a medley in salute to him.

Laurel, Md.: If you could own only one Peggy Lee CD, which one would it be? Which CD would you recommend for someone who only knows the song "Fever" and wants to hear more?

David Torresen: A very tough question! But I was expecting it. She made so many, many great things. My favorite album is one that has been praised for decades: "Black Coffee" from 1953 (and 1956...there was an expanded version once albums grew from 10 to 12 inches). It's available on CD on a "twofer" (two albums on one CD), paired with "Sea Shells." Another outstanding album is "Mink Jazz" (1963), which is easily available on CD in its entirety.

Herndon, Va.: Miss Lee was one of the best interpreters of lyrics ever, but I believe, with all the praise that has been uttered in the past few days, some are forgetting that she always, always, swung. If there is such a thing as a "jazz" singer, she certainly was one.

David Torresen: Interesting you say “IF there ever was such a thing as a jazz singer,” because what constitutes a “jazz singer” is always open to discussion. (Jazz fans are an argumentative bunch!) Even in the recent obituaries, there are differing views on Peggy’s jazz “credentials.” I’ve cut and pasted two contrasting excerpts:

By Steve Voce, in the Independent (London):
In some ways, although she had an extraordinarily limited range, she was the most complete of all the women singers. She never improvised in the manner of Sarah Vaughan or Ella Fitzgerald, but it was still possible to categorise about 90 per cent of her work as jazz.

By Don Heckman, in today’s Los Angeles Times:
Regarding her sense of swing, some observers have been loath to even categorize Lee as a jazz singer, preferring to describe her as someone who performed in jazz settings, or who occasionally phrased with jazz-like emphasis. Obviously, the great diversity of her career, combined with her own creative eclecticism, led her through virtually every aspect of popular music, from big bands to small groups, from pop songs to jazz ballads, from television variety shows to songwriting for films. Much of it didn't call for anything relating to jazz. But when it did, Lee was ready.

So there you have it -- she was a jazz singer 90% of the time, or only when the occasion called for it! She rarely improvised with the written melody (and when she did, only slightly), and she never scatted (nor did Billie Holiday, for that matter). But your comment re: her ability to swing is right on the money. She played with time freely, sang behind and around the beat with no artifice whatsoever, and, “sang” with tiny, shimmering silences between (sung) notes to marvelous effect. Her “I’m Beginning to See the Light” from 1958 is an example off the top of my head, and a few years later, songs like “Talk to Me Baby,” and “The Best Is Yet to Come.”

On another matter: Many obituary writers often referred to her “sultry,” “smoky,” “insinuating” timbre, as well as her compelling and/or heartbreaking way with ballads. All very correct. But another quality not mentioned much is her ability to be frivolous and whimsical whenever the material called for it (as it did on many recordings). Peggy Lee could be enormously funny, musically; there was a clown inside her, along with that “sultry” woman and that very tender balladeer.

Nani/Texas: Growing up, our home was always filled with music. One of my earliest and fondest childhood memories is of my young pretty mother, a jazz enthusiast, dancing around the kitchen, apron strings flying, using a large wooden spoon for a microphone as she sang along with Peggy Lee's FEVER. Yesterday afternoon, having just heard that Miss Lee passed, I put on one of her CDs and played it loud enough so we could hear it out on the porch. Within moments the trees were filled with hundreds of birds, chirping, whistling, tweeting, trilling and scatting along. Thanks Peggy. You were the best!

David Torresen: Thanks for sharing. (I have to type something, or else your observation won't appear!)

Arlandria, Va.: If you had to categorize Lee as belonging to a particular musical genre, which would it be and why?

David Torresen: I wish there were a widely-used term that would properly encapsulate a singer like Peggy. In his book "Jazz Singing," Will Friedwald calls her "our all-time great neoclassical, pan-cultural music stylist"... interesting, but it doesn't exactly role off the tip of one's tongue! (Will goes on to explain why he calls her that.) "Pop singer" is too cheap a term. "Jazz singer" isn't quite exactly right. "Chanteuse"? No. An article recently called her a "torch singer." Yes she was, but only when she was singing torch songs! I guess for now I'll leave it at Singer with a capital S.

Rockford, Ill.: Considering she received an Academy Award nomination in 1955, why was Lee's acting career not more significant?

David Torresen: Interesting question, and I don't really have the answer. She was incredibly busy just being a singer, for one thing -- constantly on the road, releasing three and even four albums per year in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Also, she was not under contract to a studio when she made "Pete Kelly's Blues" -- the contract system was ending by the mid-1950s. Not to mention the fact that movie musicals were becoming extinct around this time, sadly...

Washington: You were quoting obituaries saying that Peggy Lee didn't depart from the melody. But "Lover" sounds pretty far from the way it was written for Jeanette MacDonald. Didn't Richard Rodgers dislike it? Didn't she change labels because one wouldn't accept it? Aren't there other recordings of hers like that, loud and barely recognizeable?

David Torresen: You're right -- "Lover" is quite a departure from melody as written, but this is a pretty rare example in Peggy's case. Richard Rodgers was quoted in Time magazine as lamenting, "My little waltz, my little waltz" about Peggy's version. But as she wrote in her autobiography, they patched things up and he was a great admirer of her other recordings of his songs. The new biography of Rodgers by Meryle Secrest quotes him (second-hand) as saying, when asked about Peggy's radical reworking of "Lover," words to the effect of (I don't have the quote handy): "Why did Peggy have to pick on me? Why couldn't she f*** with 'Silent Night'?" (Expletive deleted.) Funny story, which I'd never heard before.

New York, N.Y.: Are there any plans to release any live concert or nightclub performances of Miss Lee?

David Torresen: Not that I'm aware of, but there's always room for hope. I've been pretty overwhelmed by the moving coverage of her passing in so many newspapers (see the website for links). Perhaps this will help revive interest in this fine singer and sparkling performer. In many ways, "Seeing is believing" with Peggy Lee -- she was so incredibly intelligent, and nuanced, in terms of "working" an audience, or a TV camera. She could be magnetic, as anyone who attended a live performance will probably tell you.

Walnut Grove, Calif.: 1. Did Peggy record any duets with Frank Sinatra? Tony Bennett?

2. What are your favorite Peggy Lee albums?

3. Did she have her own TV show?

David Torresen: No recorded duets with Frank or Tony -- they were rarely (in Frank's case) or never (in Tony's) at the same record label at the same time. But Frank conducted her 1957 album "The Man I Love," her most romantic album, with lush Nelson Riddle orchestrations. And they appeared on TV together several times, including two episodes of his TV show. Tony and Peggy toured together for a while in the 1980s, and their admiration for one another dates back much further.

She didn't have her own TV show, per se, although she was a regular on several musical/variety shows in the early 1950s (with Steve Allen and Mel Torme), did a series of specials sponsored by Revlon in the early 60s, and had various TV specials later on -- two in the U.S., two in England.

Alexandria, Va.: "Is That All There Is" was a big hit in 1969 when Ms. Lee was already in her 50s. In general Top 40 AM radio avoided middle-aged performers in those days. Even Frank Sinatra was having very few radio hits by then.

Did Peggy and her record company have trouble getting "Is That All There Is?" on the air? Did they do anything special to "break" that song?

David Torresen: Peggy writes about this in her book, too. Yes, she had difficulty getting Capitol to release "Is That All There Is" -- she was told it was too "far out" (in 1969???), and that it was too long (presumably for radio airplay and release as a single). But she prevailed -- she agreed to perform on a TV show she wasn't wild about doing as long as the song was released. Presto -- a top-40 hit for many weeks, three Grammy nominations (for best song, for arrangement, and for Peggy, which she won), and yet another "trademark" song to add to her repertoire. This is the song that first got me hooked. It figures prominently in Martin Scorsese's dark comedy "After Hours." (Well worth a rent!)

Carlstadt, N.J.: I want to thank you for the excellent Web site for the extraordinaty Miss Lee. She was truly one of the great musical talents of the 20th Century and the music world is a sadder place without her.

I had the pleasure of seeing her several times in person -- first in concert with Tony Bennett at the Garden State Arts Center in N.J. in 1981 (?), then for several performances at the Orrie De Nooyer Auditorium in Hackensack, N.J., at a Capitol Records Celebration, in 1982. I was working on the security staff at the Hackensack theater and had several occasions to speak with Miss Lee; I clearly recall her sweetness and graciousness.

I also attended her first performance of "Peg" on Broadway (in '84) and then the WNEW all-star show at Madison Square Garden's (now-named) Paramount Theater (late '84-early '85?). She was truly brilliant at the WNEW show -- shining brightest among her peers (including Clooney, Damone, and Torme).

But my favorite memories of Peg live were at N.Y.'s Ballroom in '87 and '88. The nights I saw her there were nothing less than magical -- the voice, the presence, the timing, were remarkably powerful.

I could write on and on about Miss Lee but am trying to keep this brief. Thank you, once again, for the wonderful work you're doing with her Web site. She gave us the best and deserves nothing less.

David Torresen: Thank you for the nice reminiscence.

I see that my time is almost up. There are quite a few questions I didn't get to cover -- very sorry about that, folks, because there are some good ones (and some challenging ones too!). Thanks to all of you for "dropping in." Thanks to the Washington Post for providing this forum. And thanks to Peggy Lee for drawing us together with her shimmering, one-of-a-kind voice. God bless her.

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