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Comics: Meet the Artist
With Bob Thaves
Cartoonist, "Frank and Ernest"
Hosted by Suzanne Tobin
Washington Post Comics Editor
Friday, Feb. 1, 2002; 1 p.m. EST
Welcome to the Washington Post Style section comics discussion, hosted by Comics page editor Suzanne Tobin.
Frank and Ernest are the stars of Bob Thaves' daily comic strip. They are characters with the ability to appear as any person, place or thing in any time period, past, present or future. Frank and Ernest are as comfortable offering whimsical comments on the creation of the universe as they are about taxes or software. "Frank and Ernest" was the first comic panel to appear in a strip format, vary the roles of its characters and use block lettering. It was also the first to use comic book-style digital coloring for the Sunday pages.
Thaves was online Friday, Feb. 1 at 1 p.m. EST to discuss "Frank and Ernest," the art of cartooning and the strip's 25th anniversary.
Thaves and his wife, Katie, live in Manhattan Beach, Calif. They have a grown son and daughter.
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Suzanne Tobin:
Welcome, comics fans to "Comics: Meet the Artist" with Bob Thaves, creator of "Frank and Ernest," who is joining us from his studio in Manhattan Beach, Calif. Welcome, Frank, and thanks so much for joining us Live Online.
Bob Thaves: Thanks, Suzanne, I'm always happy to get a chance to communicate with my readers. I do welcome their input and feedback, not just of my work, but of cartoons in general. We do get a lot of e-mail feedback from our address in the strip (bobthaves@aol.com), but this is a little different venue.
What I'm particularly interested in is what the readers see as the place for comics in their lives today. There are so many avenues for communication right now, with the Internet, television, movies and computers, that the comics don't have the same place in society that they had 50 years ago. I think we're in a transition period right now, and if anyone has any ideas about where we're going, I'd love to hear about it.
Bethesda, Md.:
Are Frank and Ernest based on people you know in your own life? Have you ever thought of introducing other characters into the cartoon?
Bob Thaves: No, they're not based on anyone I know. It would be kinda scary if they were.
The fact that I've set the strip so that they can be anything from a Roman gladiator to an insect sort of obviates the need to introduce new characters.
But I have thought of it particularly about introducing women characters into the strip. I've even occasionally had two characters, Francine and Ernestine, who are their girlfriends, appear in the Sunday comics, but not as regulars.
I've talked to the syndicate about transforming them into women occasionally, but we decided that probably wasn't a good thing to do. And, in retrospect, I think they were right.
Alexandria, Va.:
Thanks for coming online, Bob!
Do many of your ideas come from your former practice as an industrial psychologist? Do you still work in that field at all?
Bob Thaves: Not to my knowledge.
Washington, D.C.:
Frank and Ernest certainly seem to be able to comment on a variety of issues. How did you come up with the idea of having the characters be able to take on different forms?
Bob Thaves: I came up with the idea, mostly because I wanted the freedom to do a single panel cartoon and yet have the ability to go as far afield in content as I wanted to, and this was a convenient way to do that. I had done magazine cartooning and really wanted to do a comic strip where I was not confined by just a single character. And changing their persona allows me to do just that.
The Burbs:
I see that you attended college/grad school in Minnesota. Are their residents as colorful as Garrison Keillor would have us believe, or is that all just a figment of his imagination? What is the "real" Minnesota like?
Bob Thaves: Well, they're less colorful since I left.
I think Garrison has it down pretty well, actually. I really like Minnesota, except for the climate.
I love the people and Minneapolis has much to recommend it but I don't like cold weather in the winter and hot, humid weather in the summer.
Bethesda, Md.:
I really enjoy the wordplay in your strip -- it adds some extra interest for me. Do you read a lot?
Bob Thaves: Yes, I'm an avid reader. I always have been. Growing up I was very much a solitary bookworm, and I've never stopped reading for recreation. I subscribe to a lot of different magazines, like the New Yorker and Harper's, as well as reading books. Right now I'm reading "Don't Know Much About the Bible," by the same guy who did "Don't Know Much About History." I can't think of his name right now, I think it's David Weaver, but I'm not positive. He's not a serious scholar, but he's done his homework and I always learn something new from his books. I also read alot of Stephen J. Gould, who's a professor of science at Harvard.
I also enjoy historical fiction, but not so much science fiction or fantasy.
Bethesda, Md.:
I work in a bank and I am amazed at how well you depict some of what happens here ... have you ever worked in a bank? Do people who work in banks give you ideas?
Bob Thaves: No, but I'm a bank customer and I see how banks work, so that's where I get those ideas.
You have my sympathy, by the way.
Washington, D.C.:
Do you ever work in color?
Bob Thaves: Well, I do a Sunday comic in color each week, but The Post only carries me daily. I think Wiley Miller of "Non Sequitur" was the first to do processed color in the Sunday comics. But I think "Frank and Ernest" was the first Sunday comic to use digital color, which was done by a company called Electric Crayon here in California. They were doing a lot of the color work for comic books. So they started coloring my Sunday strip digitally, and now we do it in house. But it really opened up a whole new world for me.
Rockville, Md.:
Is Ernest mentally challenged?
Bob Thaves: Certainly not.
Washington, D.C.:
What inspired you to begin drawing "Frank and Ernest?"
Bob Thaves: The two characters really came from characters I'd done for cartoons in a magazine called True, which I don't think is around any more. It was a good magazine, sort of not as good as the New Yorker, but better than pulp.
They had some really good editors, one of whom suggested that I take the characters I had done in some cartoons for him, and convert them into a syndicated strip. The strip is 30 years old, so obviously he had a good idea, which I stole and ran with.
Washington, D.C.:
I agree with the person from the bank. I work for a bureaucracy of the federal government. Have you ever worked for the government? Your strips are all over people's offices!
Bob Thaves: Well, I'm not sure if I feel good or bad about that.
I did do some consulting work and had a lot of exposure to large, bureaucratic organizations, in terms of looking at them from the outside in.
And it's always an honor to know your strip is posted in people's workspaces.
Washington, D.C.:
Hi Bob--
We haven't seen any collections for a few years now -- will there be follow-ups to "The Frank & Ernest Manager" and the others?
Bob Thaves: You know, I'd forgotten that book. It was done in collaboration with a professor from the University of Washington, and what he did was take a bunch of cartoons to illustrate his text, which was a college business text.
Recently, a similar book was done with a professor of medicine at the University of Illinois, Tom Minogue, called "We Did the Best We Could, but Your Health Care Died." He's an enormously dedicated doctor, who has strong feelings about where the health care industry is going, and he used a cartoon about every other page to illustrate some of his points. And I was more than happy to help him out.
Alexandria, Va.:
Given that Frank and Ernest has an innovative tradition, what do you think might be fun to explore in the future?
Bob Thaves: I've already started exploring what I think will be our next innovation, which is interactive comics on the Internet. We've done some things along that line. Some time ago we created a "virtual reality" of sorts for Frank and Ernest from some Sunday pages, so that the readers could read the Sunday strip, and then turn to his computer and go to a newspaper's Web site and move into that comic strip and navigate around in it. I think that kind of thing will be emerging more and more, but it's really not going great guns yet.
I'm looking to the Internet to be an extremely meaningful medium for the comics. Maybe some of you out there have an idea about how to do that.
Gaithersburg, Md.:
When you were young, what cartoonist did you want to be when you grew up?
Bob Thaves: That opens up a floodgate of things about the older comics of the '30s and the '40s, and I think George Herriman's "Krazy Kat" was the best of the bunch. Milton Caniff's "Terry and the Pirates" had such wonderful artwork and such exotic adventure stories. There were so many different kinds of stories in the old days, "Dick Tracy" and "Little Orphan Annie," were just fabulous. I don't know how those guys did it.
But there wasn't one in particular that I wanted to be when I grew up.
Washington, D.C.:
Are there some things you enjoy drawing more than others?
Bob Thaves: I like the chance to draw a setting that's different from one I've ever drawn before. I like to draw settings that are out of the ordinary, not the office, for example, but something from a different historical period. And I love to draw animals.
Greenbelt, Md.:
Why do you have to talk to your syndicate about how you portray your characters? Don't you own your comic strip and have freedom to express your ideas as you wish?
Bob Thaves: Yes, I do own the strip, but I value the syndicate's judgment. I have made mistakes and, by and large, they have given me good advice, so I don't disregard it. When they talk, I listen. They almost always say, "If you want to do it, go ahead...but this is our feeling on it." So they're not dictating, but directing. I respect their input.
Washington, D.C.:
I see that you live in California. Does that in any way influence your work? And do you surf... and I don't mean the Web?!
Bob Thaves: I suppose, sure, the culture that you live in, day in and day out, is bound to be reflected in your work.
I don't surf, but my son has since he was able to get on one. He's surfed all around the world, so I am familiar with that culture.
Somewhere, USA:
Your strip seems to have a unique place on the comics page -- it is able to address a variety of issues but somehow the strips have a "Frank and Ernest" twist. It's hard to describe -- do you have a feel for what makes Frank and Ernest different?
Bob Thaves: That's a very good observation, because that really says how I feel about "Frank and Ernest." One person said that they loved "Frank and Ernest" because they're simultaneously above everything and below everything.
I kind of see them as characters who stand off to the side of the world and comment on it.
Washington, D.C.:
After all of these years, Frank and Ernest is still one of my favorites. Thanks to you -- and is it hard to keep doing the work?
Bob Thaves: Thanks to you! I really appreciate that, sincerely. Yes, it's hard. I always thought it would get easier, but it doesn't. I've never managed to get into a routine. Some days I'm prolific, just churning out strip after strip, and some days I can't buy an idea. But all of us have good days and bad days.
New York, N.Y.:
Do you use the computer much in your work? You have some interesting 3-D art and interactive comics on your site and I suspect that some computer work was definitely involoved with that. How about in your regular strips?
Bob Thaves: Our Web site was one of the first to be doing 3-D stuff on it. Again, Electric Crayon was instrumental in that. We use a Macintosh G4 and Adobe Photoshop 5.5. (We probably need to updgrade it now.) I still pretty much draw the strip by hand. But all the color work is done by computer and all the shading, and we even had our own font created in the computer for "Frank and Ernest."
We archive also on the computer, and I think that's an important thing for cartoonists. Plus, the transmission of the cartoon is done by e-mail, which is a great step up from snail mail.
Washington, D.C.:
When you thought of the idea for the strip, did you think of one character before the other? Or did you think that two characters would be better? How did you decide on their personalities? They seem to share some traits but have their differences as well.
Bob Thaves: That has changed over the years, but it started out that Frank was the only one who talked, and Ernest was just an appreciative listener. That quickly became impossible, because you have to have dialogue. And through the years, their personalities have evolved. Originally, Frank was the dominant, talkative but now Ernest has kind of grown, so that he often turns the tables on Frank, and the joke is on Frank.
Harrisburg, Pa.:
I am impressed with your ability to be consistently funny. Have you ever had periods of time where you could not come up with ideas, and, if so, do you have any routines to get "out of the rut?" If you've had this problem (maybe you haven't), what is the longest you have gone without coming up with ideas? I admire your ability to always come up with such good ideas. Finally, how far ahead do you do your strips?
Bob Thaves: To answer your last question first, I do my daily strips 4-6 weeks ahead and my Sunday strips 2-3 months ahead of time.
As for barren periods, you can never go for very long, because the deadline is there. I do sometimes send out some strips that I'm not particularly happy with, but that's the business.
Everyone has fallow periods, but I don't know any way of getting out of the rut except to bull your way through it.
If you come up with one, I'd be the first to invest in it.
Washington, D.C.:
I notice that the humor in many comics seems to be changing, but Frank and Ernest seem to stay their witty selves. Do you feel pressure to change the tone of the strip?
Bob Thaves: Not at all. I have ideas that make me laugh and hopefully they'll make other people laugh too. I draw it for me.
Washington, D.C.:
Wow! Thirty years - congratulations! Will you promise to keep going for thirty more?
Bob Thaves: Wouldn't that be nice???
I don't ever want to retire entirely, but what I do want to work toward is to reach the point when I only have to do what I want, when I want, and get away from the daily deadlines.
After I'm gone, if someone else wants to pick it up, that's fine. But I'm not ego-involved with it.
Charlottesville, Va.:
Bob, do you think there's still a role for the storyline strips, or have they been made passe by shrinking comic space and TV narrative? A recent attempt to revamp "Terry and the Pirates" was beautifully done, but didn't last.
Bob Thaves:
the reason it didn't last was, yes, it was beautifully done, but it wasn't Milton Caniff.
I sure would like to think that there's still a place for the story strip. For example, we do have "For Better or For Worse," but not as many or of the same sort we used to have.
Washington, D.C.:
I'd be interested in your opinion as to why lawyers are so often featured in comic strips (yours and others). They're really not inherently funny people (except for the ones I know personally!).
Bob Thaves: I think they're just natural targets. I think stereotyping is one of the handy tools that cartoonists use, and lawyers are just too easy.
Fairfax, Va.:
Where did the idea of having Earth and one of her fellow planets talk to each other? I think of all your one liners, I like those ones the best.
Bob Thaves: I like one-liners and that's why the strip is set up that way for the daily.
Having planets talk is a vehicle for making observations about the earth and those of us who are planted there.
I don't really know where the idea came from. People always ask me that, and I say "If I knew where they came from, I go there every day and get one."
Gaithersburg, Md.:
Do you have an interest in medeival history or Roman times, and is that why your characters are often seen in these previous eras? Also, which other comic artist's work do you admire or enjoy?
Bob Thaves: Yes, I do have an interest in Roman and Greek history.
As for current strips, I admire "Doonesbury" for its satire and the characters of the dog and cat in "Get Fuzzy." But my all-time favorite is still "Krazy Kat," which is timeless. People are still imitating him.
Bob Thaves: Thanks, Suzanne, and to The Washington Post. I appreciate not only that you put up with the strip, but that you gave me this chance to listen to your readers, and answer some of their questions. I really truly appreciate every reader, because they allow me to have this great job and to live the way I want to.
Suzanne Tobin:
Thanks, Bob, and I hope you and everyone else will come back in two weeks, same time, same place, for another "Comics: Meet the Artist" chat.
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