Washingtonpost.com: Live Online

• Book Club
• Book Club Transcripts
• Book World
• Talk: Books and Reading message boards
• Live Online Transcripts
• Subscribe to washingtonpost.com e-mail newsletters
• mywashingtonpost.
com -- customized news, traffic, weather and more

Bookclub: "Le Grand Meaulnes"
Presented by Dennis Drabelle
Contributing Editor to Book World
Thursday, Feb. 28, 2002; Noon EST

Welcome to the online meeting of The Washington Post Book Club, a monthly program presented by the editors and writers of Washington Post Book World. Dennis Drabelle, contributing editor to Book World will be leading the discussion on this month's selection, Alain Fournier's "Le Grand Meaulnes."

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

Dennis Drabelle: Welcome to our online discussion of Le Grand Meaulnes. It's a book that has stayed in mind ever since I first read it about 20 years ago. Not necessarily every detail of the plot (even now I can get tied up in some of the interrelations among Francois, Augustin, Valentine, and Yvonne) but the haunting effect of being plunged into a magical world, then losing it, then struggling to reconnect with it, while possibly not really wanting to do that because the memory is stronger than the reality could ever be. Let's stay with the book for the next hour.

Lenexa, Kans.: Mr. Drabelle,

What a gripping tale--beautifully integrated. Perhaps from growing up in a little town of 400 on U.S. 40 (America's Main Street), most excitement came by the occasional heroic newcomer, I've always liked the Shane ("Yes Joey, Wilson was fast."), Jay Gatsby, "le grand Meaulnes" kinds of tale. I thought Francois Seurel the perfect, sensitive narrator. I liked his sadness in recalling the excitement (and the heartbreaking sorrow) of what his jaunty young friend and "the great adventure" once brought to the little hamlet. Your thoughts? Thanks.

Dennis Drabelle: What's interesting about that is that according to John Fowles Alain-Fournier split himself in two in writing the book. He himself seems to have been much more like the aggressive Augustin than the rather self-effacing Francois. Yet of course we get the whole story from Francois, who rather idolizes Meaulnes. A nice trick that, to make part of yourself into a bumptious hero while an alter ego does the storytelling.

Washington, D.C.: I loved this book in college, wanted to read it again, and join the discussion, but I have been unable to find the book anywhere! I visited and called several of the bookstores listed as offering a discount on Washington Post Book Club selections, and none had even heard of the book and do not carry the selections as a matter of course. Frustrating!

Dennis Drabelle: I'm sorry to hear that. I have a history of choosing books that seem hard to get. (So much superb literature has been allowed to go out of print.) On the other hand, this book is in print, in a Penguin Classic edition. My advice in the future is to pounce as soon as a book is announced. By going online to either Amazon.com for new books or abebooks.com for used ones and ordering early, you should have no trouble next time.

Bethesda, Md.: After reading this sensitive and fanciful novel, we are curious about the author. How much is known about Alain-Fournier beyond the basic fact of his untimely death?
The book has several themes but what appears to be the main message the author is trying to convey? We believe the alternative title you mentioned, The Lost Domain, would seem more appropriate since it would provide a larger base. What do you think about that?

Dennis Drabelle: I totally agree about The Lost Demain being a better title. And Alain-Fournier himself called it, alternatively, The End of Youth, which is also good. That leads to me at least hint at what I think is the theme (I don't want to do much thinking for you). It seems to be about how growing up entails realizing that our dreams and aspirations are going to be more powerful, more seductive, more enthralling than anything we can ever do to realize them. I think all of us go back to our childhood and get nostalgic from time to time about things like what promise life seemed to have for us, how we haven't fulfilled all that much of our potential, etc. But in some ways that's a false sentiment--we were completely free to have and cherish those dreams because we had little or no contact with the world, no knowledge of what it takes to put such aspirations into effect. It's the process of making that transition from limitlesss dreaming to rough-and-tumble life itself that the book is about. And admirable as he is in many ways, Meaulnes is not a good exemplar how to make that transition.

Washington, D.C.: Alain Fournier tutored Scott Fitzgerald in French for a bit. Given that interesting literary tidbit, does it strike anyone else that The Great Gatsby may be a kind of hommage to Le Grand Meaulnes, not only in title but in approach -- the narration by a kind of arm's length, not fully clued-in, hero-worshipping buddy, among other things -- and the theme -- both stories of both destruction and great beauty brought about by grasping for but inevitably failing to hold onto an enticing dream?

Dennis Drabelle: I don't think it was F. Scott Fitzgerald whom Alain-Fournier tutored but rather T. S. Eliot. Which reminds me that I forgot to answer the previous question about AF's life. He came from the peasantry, but his parents were educated--like Francois's parents in the novel, they taught school. Henri (his real name) was very bright, and left his village at a fairly young age to prep for the famous Ecole Normale Superiore in Paris, the school in which the political leadership of France is groomed. He didn't do well there but went into the army. English was always his best subject in school, and he spent some time in England, where he was invited to a fancy garden party that may have planted the seed for the wedding party in Le Grand Meaulnes. He began to write stories in a romantic, effusive vein. He sent one of them to Andre Gide, who was editing a literary magazine at the time. Gide was brusque with him--told him that the world had enough prose-poems already--and AF took his advice to heart. He changed his approach to writing--much more physical detail, much less poetic gossamer about women and love. The result is the very tactile, almost gritty realism of Le Grand Meaulnes. Meanwhile, AF himself had a mystical encounter with an aristocratic young woman much as does Meaulnes in the novel. He had other relationships, but this fleeting connection haunted him, and he put it to wonderful effect in his first and only novel. He was killed in action about a month after the war began.
As for the Fitzgerald connection, I don't know if Fitzgerald read Le Grand Meaulnes, but it's certainly a good guess. I agree that there is a distinct similarity between Francois's narrative stance and Nick Carraway's in Gatsby. And there is also something similar about the atmosphere--the haunted or at least pregnant-with-meaning landscape--in each novel.

Washington, D.C.: Aren't there some interesting ironies in the story, when one considers the growing up theme? For example, Francois seems to represent the person who does grow up and bumps against the rough edges of adulthood, yet in fact he's the quiet stay-at-home while Augustin -- and Frantz! -- are the ones who actually get a lot more of what we'd call "experience." Also, Augustin holds onto the child's dream, which is supposedly impossible and the thing that we leave behind at "the end of youth," but I think he's undeniably still the hero in many ways, at the end of the book, is he not?
I'd also like to hear what you make of Frantz. I almost think Fournier split himself in -three- -- with Frantz being maybe what a spontaneous spirit would be if there were no constraints at all on him?

Dennis Drabelle: Good questions. Writers seems to fall into two camps, perhaps epitomized by Hemingway and Faulkner. There are those who charge around, fighting in wars, having love affairs, soaking up experiences, and there are those who don't travel much, don't live Technicolor existences, but mostly stay where they were raised. Either approach can yield rich material (Flannery O'Connor may be an even better example of someone whose life was uneventful almost to an extreme, except that she observed her fellow Georgians keenly and wrote about them with genius). What I'm getting at is that both tendencies were probably present in AF, and he was able to transmute them into two rich characters.
In comparison to Francois and Augustin, Frantz seems a bit pathetic, don't you think? Having been granted so many of his whims, he seems to be flailing through life after his failed suicide attempt. But there may have been something of AF in him, too. During the war AF was told that his best friend, Jacques Riviere, had been killed in battle. This turned out to be a false report, but apparently AF behaved rather reckelessly afterward, and he himself was killed in short order.

Washington, D.C.: Have you seen the French film version made in the late 1960s, I believe? And, if so, what did you think of it?

I remember thinking that one of the things it captured brilliantly was what you just referred to as the pregnant-with-meaning landscape in the book....And of course that's what dreams are in many was -- landscapes more pregnant with meaning than real landscapes. That makes the book seem a natural for film, does it not?

Dennis Drabelle: Yes, I have seen the film, which is called The Wanderer. I remember it as being quite good--and just as you say, it really does conjure up that dreamscape. I forgot to check whether it is on video or otherwise available in this country, but it is well worth tracking down.

Washington, D.C.: Fournier and Scott Fitzgerald knew each other. What do you think of a possible Gatsby/Meaulnes connection, with Le Grand Meaulnes being a bit of an influence on or even a model for The Great Gatsby?

Dennis Drabelle: I answered a similar question earlier. I am not aware of AF and Fitzgerald knowing each other. AF tutored T.S. Eliot in English, however. But I do see Le Grand Meaulnes as very possibly an influence on The Great Gatsby. If I'm wrong about Fitzgerald and AF knowing each other, please let me know.

University Park, Md.: This book was enthusiastically recommended to me last year by a British friend. (I ordered a copy via Amazon.) Started reading it but got badly stalled--not sure why--while Meaulnes was drifting dreamily around the fete. Thanks to your choice of this book for the Club I picked it up again and this time did not want to put it back down.
Though I very much liked the book, I can't help wondering whether the tremendous mystique that it seems to enjoy in Europe derives from factors such as the onset of WWI and Alain-Fournier's premature death in it. The citizens of the countries shattered by that war collectively share Seurel's nostalgia for a better, nobler, safer time.

Dennis Drabelle: I think you are probably right. Alain-Fournier's untimely death, at age 28, undoubtedly has added to his book's reputation--and there is also a great sense of loss for all the unwritten books that might have been. But the people who love this book really love it (myself included). A couple of weeks ago I got a letter from a woman who sent along photographs of the town, Epineul, where AF grew up. She loved the book so much that she went out of her way on a trip to France to visit it. The very schoolhouse where so much of the book's action takes place has been preserved, presumably looking just as it did then.

Washington, D.C.: Mr. Drabelle, Not a question but a comment and a thanks. I read The Wanderer years ago, and it has stayed with me just as you described. I remember little of the details, but I can feel an atmosphere and somehow an affirmation. Though I have not had the time to reread the book since I learned of today's book club (my first!) gathering, I thank you for reminding me of the great pleasure and look forward to this discussion and my reaquaintance with the book. I have asked many people if they've read it, and no one I know has. I'm so glad to be able to share it with others who have.

Dennis Drabelle: The same woman who wrote to me about having gone to Epineul mentioned that she has bought numerous copies of the book, passed them on to friends who have kept them, and so she keeps on buying. I hope you return for future Book Club discussions.

Lenexa, Kans.: Interesting--Fowles's insight. The Great War seemed particularly wasteful of the world's gifted youth ("Bricks were never so red..."). Such a fabulous novel--loved the surreal feel of the lost domain (the children planning the little horse races and set to call out "Long live the bride!", the commedia dell' arte, the head-bandaged mountebank)--makes me wonder what other exciting literature we likely missed....

QUESTION: My VideoHound shows there was a 1967 French film version (The Wanderer) of Le Grand Meaulnes with English subtitles. I tried but couldn't locate in Kansas City area. Have you seen it? Thanks again.

Dennis Drabelle: Well, that answers my question as to the film's availability. Video stores can be as unimaginative as bookstores in what they stock. I am going to look around the DC area to see if I can rent The Wanderer, but I can't pretend to be too optimistic.

Washington, D.C.: I believe that I've heard the book was a cult hit of sorts in France at one time. Do you know the history of its reputation there (or elsewhere)?

Dennis Drabelle: My understanding is that the book is classic in France, something that almost any educated person will have read (again, we might compare it to The Great Gatsby here). It has a pretty high reputation in Europe as a whole, I believe. In his afterword to the Signet Classic, John Fowles says of it, "It has haunted the European imagination ever since it first appeared in 1913.+

Washington, D.C.: How about the narrative structure of the novel -- particularly the journal-revealed-long-after-the-fact chapters and so on. Does that seem in any way patchwork or makeshift to you, or do you think it's successful? I'm torn. On the one hand, I feel it's right somehow to keep the reader in the dark with Francois about many of Augustin's mysteries, and the whole tone of having the unknown and fabulous perhaps be right around the corner without our knowing it. On the other hand, the structure seems a little bit awkward, a little bit choppy. Maybe that's just the result of having two heroes.

Dennis Drabelle: I think that the fragmented works pretty well in the first two thirds of the book, not so well in the last third. Partly that may be a consequence of the story itself. The enchanted episode at the lost domain and the followup back in the village, when Meaulnes is trying to recapture the experience and Frantz and his caretaker are living their outlaws' life nearby--that's all so powerful and evocative that we don't pay much attention to how the story is told. It's when the boys become men and actually get involved with these idealized woman that things start to feel forced and we notice that the structure is a bit creaky. This morning on the way to work I was trying to think of other great novels that start off so well only to fall off at the end, and a very obvious one came to mind. Huckleberry Finn, which to my mind is THE great American novel, except for those puerile final chapters when Tom Sawyer joins Huck and Tom and the story degenerates fast. The last part of Le Grand Meaulnes isn't that bad, but it does provide another illustration of how difficult it can be for even a great artist to keep a firm grip on his or her material.

Charlotte, N.C.: Woody Allen is quoted as saying that if he had his life to live over again, he wouldn't change a thing--except he would not see the film version of The Magus. John Fowles has said he was influenced by his reading of Le Grand Meaulnes when writing The Magus, so...was the film version of Le Grand Meaulnes just wrong, wrong, wrong?

Dennis Drabelle: I'm not sure I follow your question, but we shouldn't blame authors for the films that are made of their works. I haven't seen the film version of The Magus, so I can't comment on it, but I do think that the makers of The Wanderer did well by Alain-Fournier. In fact, my impression is that the last part of the movie works better than the last part of the book.

Washington, D.C.: On the film, a few years ago I bought it (yes, I am a fanatic) from an online/catalogue video store, Movies Unlimited. This was three or four years ago, and at that point it was available.

Dennis Drabelle: So that means the film can be ordered and added to one's private collection, correct? At least as of four years ago.

Dennis Drabelle: We're reaching the end of our time, and I want to thank everybody who participated. A goodly number did, and I feel better about choosing a book that is not the easiest one in the world to find. I can't speak for my colleagues, but for me half the fun of this is trying to come up with wonderful books that for some reason have either fallen out of favor or been overlooked. It would be nice to see high school teachers, for example, assign LGM instead of those perennials The Catcher in the Rye and A Separate Peace.

University Park, Md.: In 1999 the French newspaper Le Monde listed the century's top 100 books (not only French authors, either). Le Grand Meaulnes was listed in 9th place, right behind The Grapes of Wrath and For Whom the Bell Tolls.

Dennis Drabelle: That's good to hear. I think it is a better book than either of those other two.

Charlotte, N.C.: I should have been more clear--doesn't a film version of a classic piece of literature forever change the impression of the book? A sort of take-off on the "birth of reader comes at the death of the author" (Foucault?) perspective, that the viewing of a filmed book retrospectively changes the impression of the book, whether the film is good or bad?

Dennis Drabelle: Yes, now I see your point. I guess the conventional wisdom is that only mediocre books make good movies, but LGR seems to be an exception. I do try not to see movies of books I want to read--at least not until I've read the book.

washingtonpost.com:

That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.

Stay tuned to Live Online:

Entertainment Guide: Got Plans? at 1 p.m. EST
The Apartment Adviser at 2 p.m. EST
Dirda on Books at 2 p.m. EST
Welfare Reform: Rep. Benjamin Cardin (D-Md.) at 2:30 p.m. EST

Did you know that you can follow more than one Live Online discussion at the same time? Just open another browser window and toggle back and forth between discussions! And, if you miss one, catch up with the Live Online transcripts.

Keep up with the latest in news, sports, politics and entertainment with washingtonpost.com e-mail newsletters.

NEW! Personalize your Post with mywashingtonpost.com. Get customized news, traffic, weather and more.