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"Conquer Your Food Addiction"
With Caryl Ehrlich
Author and Talk show Host
Friday, July 19, 2002; 1 p.m. EDT

Tired of hearing about the latest diets and tricks in weight loss? Do you feel guilty about eating? Think about how you manage your eating habits affecting how you control your weight gain.

Author and Manhattan's “Changing Habits” talk show host Caryl Ehrlich is the founder of her self-titled "The Caryl Ehrlich Program" -- a method of weight-control that change habits of eating without diet, deprivation, props, or pills. In her 8-step program, Ehrlich focuses on a behavioral approach to permanent weight loss for food addicts. She is a behavior modification specialist in the field of weight reduction and control. She has been promoting her behaviorial approach and year marks a 24-year anniversary of a permanent 50-pound weight loss using her methods.

She comes online Friday, July 19 at 1 p.m. EDT to talk about Her book, "Conquer Your Food Addiction (The Free Press/Simon & Schuster, 2002)."

Currently, Ehrlich produces and hosts the “Changing Habits” show on Manhattan Cable. She has been interviewed and has written numerous articles on weight reduction/control and behavior modification. She has participated in numerous radio and television broadcasts on the subject and for several years worked as a talkshow producer and host on WMCA radio in New York City. Some of her previous clients include corporate employees such as Bankers Trust Company, Lord & Taylor, Bergdorf Goodman, Orion Pictures and Pfizer Pharmaceuticals. In addition to teaching one-on-one, she is a motivational speaker and lecturer.

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

Caryl Ehrlich: Hello. My name is Caryl Ehrlich and I've just written a book called CONQUER YOUR FOOD ADDICTION. It is a behaviorial approach to weight loss. It is not about diet or deprivation, props or pills, but to teach you how to change your way of thinking and acting until the new way, becomes the cofortable way.

Sterling, Va.: I'm not addicted to food, but my family serves a lot of carbohydrates in meals. How can you modify the behaviour of an entire family when everybody is cooking w/ carbs?

Caryl Ehrlich: It is difficult but the choice is always ours. Just becuase there is chicken and broccoli and a potato in the meal, doesn't mean that sometimes you could say yes to the broccoli and the chicken, and sometimes to the chicken and the potato and sometimes to the broccoli and potato for an all vegetable. The choice is yours if you really want to weigh _______ pounds.

Maryland : Hi there. I have been working on changing my eating habits a while, but like the rest of the world I am finding it really hard. I heard once that once you sigh when you are eating that is your body telling you that you are no longer hungry. I gotta tell you I have tried this and well, sometimes it works and sometime it doesn't. What are your thoughts?

Caryl Ehrlich: I think that people eat much too quickly and the twenty minute meal which I reference in the book many times and there is a chapter or two on the twenty minute meal, I think that is half of the problem. When you eat too quickly, you eat so far beyond the hunger . but when you eat slowly and thoughtfuly, sipping water between bites, really relaxing, you'll see you feel satiated and you're aware of it.. You want to eat until you are "no longer hungry" , not just until the food is gone. .

Washington: What is the percentage of "food addicts" that are able to successfully change their behavior? Have their been studies?

Caryl Ehrlich: As far as I can tell, there haven't been any noticable studies though I'm sure others like myself have seen that when you change your habits, you change your weight permanently. The new way truly becomes the comfortable way. . Think about when you were a child, you didn't set out to weigh more than you wanted . . it was progressive. . one time we find comfort in food when a lollypop is offered when we were crying and the next time the lollipop didn't work and mom or caregiver is offering two pops and a soda.. it is progressive. . you can get used to anything. .

Washington, D.C.: What is the difference between your program and the program of Overeaters Anonymous?

Caryl Ehrlich: My program is very forgiving. . I've been teaching The Caryl Ehrlich Program (the program on which the book is based) since 1981. I discovered early on there is no perfect. I get the feeling sometimes that with drugs and alcohol, you can either do it or not. . You stop smoking or drinking or drugging and that is that. but you cannot stop eating. You have to learn how. And my program encourages your tastes. If you really don't like boiled chicken, why eat it. I say, learn to feed the smaller person you want to be and you can season and flavor food any way you want it. . then it is a joy to stay on your program.

Washington, D.C.: I can't belive this chat is on today! What timing! I am 31 yo male, 5'9 160-165, in good shape but trying to lose the extra weight around the middle/love handles. I recently swtiched to a low carb diet (just trying to avoid them) but I swim intensively three or four times a week for 1 1/2 hours or so. About a day and a half after a swim, I will crave carbs so bad that it feels very animalistic. And bad carbs too. usually sweets. When I eat them then, I tend to binge. What can I do/eat/avoid that will not make me crave bad carbs (i.e., sugar) so much? Thank you!

Caryl Ehrlich: After a workout, you most likely need a shot of protein, but the body wants what it wants when it wants it .. quick and instant. . So you eat the sugar and you get that burst of energy. . and then you immediately crash. And want more. It is progressive. . you always want more or the portion increases. When you eat a more nutrient dense food, protein in particular if you're working out, it takes a tad more time for you to get to the top but you stay invigorated a lot longer.

Connecticut: Oh, Caryl, I need help! When I quit smoking 5 years ago, I substituted sweets for cigs after meals, trading one addiction for another. I gained some weight at first (metabolism shift plus extra calories), but I'm an active/athletic person, so it wasn't too bad. But now I need to kick my sweets habit! I crave some kind of end-of-meal satisfaction, and I usually turn to sugar (I rarely snack or eat sweets otherwise; I'm a vegetarian and eat sensible meal portions).

I started with big desserts like cookies, ice cream or cake -- and it really did help me stay away from the cigarettes! Now, I try to keep portions small/reasonable and have hard candy, Tootsie Rolls or sorbet (btw, I must eat chocolate -- nothing fruity will do!). I only have "big" desserts on special occaisons.

Needless to say, my weight is still an issue (I'm about 25-30 lbs. overweight) and, as I get older, getting worse. How can I kick my 300-calorie a day sweet habit?? I love the idea of "everything in moderation," but I have a hard time stopping with just one Oreo or York Peppermint Patty -- I need to eat six. (Of course, my thin husband doesn't understand why I don't have more "willpower.")

Any suggestions would be VERY appreciated!! Thanks so much.

Caryl Ehrlich: A lot of questions but basically you exchanged one habit (cigarette smoking) for anotehr habit of putting something into your mouth (candy) whenever you were lonely, tired, bored, anxious, depressed, up or down. . We have to learn to feel lonely and tired and stressed and all those things, but not act on them. . to learn a new way of thinking, and doing, and acting, in a positive way, a new way, a program way.

Grand Rapids, Mich.: My earliest memory of a problem with food was one Thanksgiving when I was a child. There must have been 20 or 25 people at my aunt's home for dinner. I snuck into the bathroom, locked the door and ate a roll. I was also alone a great deal as a child and ate for, I suppose, comfort. Now I'm a woman in my mid-40's. I make a conscious attempt to eat healthy and also try to maintain a level of mindful spirituality in my daily life. But I wonder if I have an 'addiction' and despite how it is labeled, how I can work past it.

Caryl Ehrlich: So many of these habits do begin in childhood. At the beginning we most likely got the hug with the cookie or the piece of bread. but eventually, mom wasn't there with the hug so we kept distracting ourselves from discomfort with another piece of bread and another. If you're trying to fill a physical hunger, it doesn't take a lot to satiate a little small person like you want to be, you who weigh ______ pounds. but if you're trying to feed an emotional hunger, you could back up a truck to your home or office and it would never ever be enough.. "Okay guys. The ice cream goes in the freezer, the Mallomars go in the cabinet, and the Twinkerdoodles go on the bed." We need to create new thuoghts and actions more in line to helping us achieve the goal of weighing ________ pounds. Onward and downward. the choice is yours. Take a deep breath. . you're going to be okay because the moment will pass whether you eat or drink or smoke or not.

Hyattsville, Md.: If you have depression and have anxiety attacks along with being an alcoholic (not drinking-sober for almost 7 years), there's nothing else to do but eat. So help! How do you deal with this?

Caryl Ehrlich: A lot of these compulsive behaviors (not just the eating but the talking about it or talking about the clothes are too tight or whatever or the food, thinking I can't eat this or that . .) these are behaviors designed to distract us from feelings and thoughts we dont' want to feel or think. . Create a new life. . a new way of doing things.

Silver Spring, Md.: Why do I continue to eat while I sit there thinking, "I'm not hungry, why I am eating"? I'm even embarrassed to tell anyone about it. Sometimes it makes me afraid to be alone in my house.

Caryl Ehrlich: They call that the cycle of addiction. . And not only is the thinking and the eating part of the cycle, but so is remorse. There's always remorse. In the book, the first quote at the beginning is by William Ira Benton. He says Please is not a necessary component of addiction. More plausible is the hypothesis that the addictive element of the behavior is not food, but the cycle itself." And the cycle is sitting there thinking "I'm not hungry, why am I eating" and continuing to eat. Part of your cycle is being embarrassed to tell anyone about it. Part of the cycle is to be alone and afraid in your house. . All of that is part of the knot of behaviors that keep you locked into where you are. Read about the repatterning techniques listed in the book .. there are many chapters to show you how to think and eventually act in a new way that better reflects the person you want to be . . you who weigh _______ pounds. You can do this.

New York, N.Y.: Hi Caryl:

I've read your book and enjoyed it. My question is this: I know you are not a believer in snacking, but what do you do if you've eaten a wholesome meal and are starving long before it's time to eat the next one?

Caryl Ehrlich: There is what I call a Fourth Meal. . A Fourth Meal is a lesser portion of wholesome nutrition food, i.e., a cup of soup, or a cup of cereal, or a small salad (a handful on a flat plate) eaten on a plate with utensils.Those suggestions are what I call No-Protein meals. Or you might need a Fourth Meal of protein, an egg, a half can of tuna, or two slices of turkey.

Most people eat snacks but I think that is just a cutesy name for junk and on The Program defined in the book, those "snacks" are No-Meal Meals. I am convinced the snack food companies were thinking up a cute name.. . and they said what can we call this crap and not let it sound too um, crappy.. and they said let's call it a snack. It sounds cute.

Albuquerque, N.M.: How do I know if I have a food addiction? I love food, but so does everyone I know.

Caryl Ehrlich: If you're eating because you're hungry, food on a plate, and the meal lasts twenty relaxing minutes (or more) and it all tastes delicious, you have a bonus. But just becuase something tastes good or looks good or smells good, it's not a reason to eat.

New York, N.Y.: Most of my eating is done at work. Not only is bread the most longed-for (and most fattening) part of my intake--turns out that sandwiches are by far the least messy lunch to have at my desk. There's very little opportunity for me to have lunch elsewhere. Is there any solution?

Caryl Ehrlich: When I was working in the evenings free-lancing as a typist while I was starting my business, soup was the easiest and most varietal thing I could bring to work. I could eat it hot or cold and as slowly or quickly as I wanted.. And if something as simple as Skipping and Scattering were in your thinking then you might think sometimes I have bread and sometimes I don't.. If you have bread daily for a year you have it 365 times. But if you skip and scatter and have it merely every other day, you only have it 182 times a year and you end up with a noticable weight loss.. Thinking that sometimes you have it and sometimes you don't .. that is repatterning. And as I like to mention, you get used to anything. The opposite of "loving" food is not hate, but indifference.

Connecticut: Hi, Caryl -- this is the former smoker again. I appreciate you addressing my first post, but what kind of program should I follow? I know I need to approach my sweets addiction differently, but HOW? Could you please clarify and give me some more specific direction? I really appreciate it.

Caryl Ehrlich: The book, CONQUER YOUR FOOD ADDICTION is the reason I was invited to be part of this forum. And I approach sweets throughout the book because that was my food of choice when I weighed 50 pounds more than I do now. I wrote the progrm for myself so I could continue to eat real chocolate but better reflected in the portion and frequency that is for the smaller person I wanted to be, and became, and have remained. It is finding the right thought or word or action that will help you repattern.

Washington, D.C.: Does your book have any information about eating out. I travel almost every week for work and eating out becomes one of the only activities that get me out of the hotel and that is not work related. Yuck!

Caryl Ehrlich: Yes. I cover many particulars about eating out, weddings, Bar Mitzvahs, and Cocktail parties. . holiday eating . . weekends away and so forth. what we need to do is have a home base so that no matter where we are, we only eat when we're hungry, and when thinking of food and know we couldn't possibly be hungry, we learn to deal with the anxiety or pressure or sadness or joy in a different food-free way. We were taught, incorrectly by parents doing the best they knew how.. but it's not working if you're struggling. We have to learn how to be around food if it happens, and not always eat just to please a friend or a wait-person.

New York, N.Y.: I get home from work rather late most evenings, and technically my eating is almost done for the day--except for vegetables, which are in short supply at local luncheonettes. So I ought to have a salad or a nice dish of cooked veggies before toddling off to bed. But at ten p.m. my energy level and moral fiber are both waning, and I often end up snacking on easily available things (yogurt, chocolate, a glass of wine) instead. These have added up to two dress sizes. HELP!

washingtonpost.com: Caryl, is there ever a time when it's "too late" in the day to eat?

Caryl Ehrlich: I think that many people eat too much, too late, and too fast. You should be eating nutrition to take you from breakfast to lunch, and lunch should take you to dinner. but dinner need not take you to breakfast the following morning. when you go to sleep, you don't need fuel to carry you around. You only need enough fuel to keep your heart and your lungs going and the burning of the stored fat does that fine. Ask a question before eating a meal which is how far does this fuel need to take me. . If after dinner you're going bowling, you might need A BITE OR TWO more than usual. but if you're sitting around in your jammies trying to balance your checkbook, maybe you need to buy, prepare, serve, ad eat a tad less. . even a bite or two each day left on the plate can add up to some nice weight loss at the end of the year.

Rockville, Md.: I am 5'2" and I weigh 90 pounds. Whenever I eat something fattening or simply not healthy I feel guilty. I have been battling this for most of my adult life - I am 39 years old. I have two daughters that are teenagers and I am constantly watching what they eat. From time to time I will make comments to them.

Caryl Ehrlich: The guilt you feel is part of the cycle of addiction. As is the watching your daughters. . I know it is tempting to try and help someone else, but if you have eating issues, that is what you are teaching your children whether verbally or through your actions. My dad was a smoker and I learned to smoke. My mom comforted herself with sweets and I learned to do the same. Once you make a commitment to weigh _______, every food choice should reflect that goal. So you need to learn a new way but also to begin letting go (kicking or screaming if necessary) of the old way. the moment always passes whether you eat or drink or not.

Albuquerque, N.M.: How do I know if I have a food "addiction"?
I love to eat, but so does everyone else I know.

Caryl Ehrlich: If you're eating to satisfy a hunger and it tastes good, looks good, or smells good, you've got a bargain. but if you're eating becuase of those reasons, you're in your addiction. If you eat and are the weigh you want to be it's one thing. but if you're eating becuase you "love to eat" the trick is to "find another hobby."

Somewhere, USA: I'm the opposite of a food addict. Except for chocolate, eating even one meal a day is a chore. The problem started in childhood. Please tell parents not to constantly criticize their child's table manners, or to use mealtime as an opportunity to remind their child of what a loser he or she is. I'd love to put on some weight, but I just don't get hungry.

Caryl Ehrlich: You got in a habit of eating less than you need . . I said we get used to anything. If you're serious about gaining weight you could but I'd do it sloooowly and methodically so you don't overshoot your goal (you should put a goal in writing) . . it takes a little planning but you could do it easily thinking of balance and variety as two important factors.

Maple Shadde, N.J.: Ms. Erlich, Regarding the woman who traded her smoking additction for a sweets addiction, I think you missed a very important point: addiction to refned white sugar exists just as surely as addiction to alcohol and drugs exists and is extremely hard to kick. I know because I have it. And just as no alcoholic can indulge in an occasional glass of wine, nor a drug addict take an hit here or there without craving more, I can't have a single piece of cake or cookie and feel satisfied. This has nothing to do with "willpower."
Sugar addicts have to be vigilant label-readers. Sugar is added to everything from bread to condiments and even if something is not sweet to taste, having sugar in the system will always prompt cravings for more. I have only ever been free when I've gotten all the refined sugar out of my system and kept it out. This is a lot easier to do now that health food stores carry snack foods sweetened with natural sweeteners such as barley malt and real honey. Some nutritionists say that the body responds the same to all sugars, but for me, if it was not refined from sugar cane (or beets or potatoes for that matter), it does not cause the same reaction. Eating healthfully, as your reader seems to be doing, surely helps keep cravings at bay, but she may also want to investigate certain supplements that assist in overcoming a sugar habit.

Caryl Ehrlich: I think you can be sensitive to one food or another. . and sugar doesn't satisfy a craving for sugar it merely promotes a craving for more sugar. I think however that if you make a point as The Program suggests, to skip and scatter, and to only have bread or beverage or dessert or alcohol as part of a meal, the other more nutritious food helps cusion the affects of the "drug" sugar. So the portion and frequency wlll make a differernce. Again, it may appear that way, and some may be particularly sensitive to flour and sugar but much of it is a behavioral and frequency pattern and the longer we stay away from certain foods that we eat frequently, the less and less we crave them.

Rockville, Md.: Hi. I've just discovered this forum and hopefully you can help me with something. I am 20 years old (still young, still growing?) and I've gained 30 lbs in the last year. I am 5'7", which makes me kind of tall. I cannot stop eating, I'll eat when I'm not hungry. It's horrible. It's come to the point that I disgust myself. People tell me that I am not fat (I'm a size 6/8). But I feel terrible about the way I look. Any advice?

Caryl Ehrlich: I teach many people who are small by most standards so their coming to me is not about "being fat" but much more about being out of control. And although you're managing to burn the food from your "I can't stop eating" episodes, this compulsive overeating is a progressive disease. You'll build a base and then instead of gaiing a pound at a time as I did at the beginning, near the end as I closed in on the 50 pound weight gain, I recall it went from 10 to 15 to 20, 30, and then 50 pounds. . It is the behavior you want to change so you're calm around food .. feeling disgust is part of your cycle of addiction. Each person's is different.

Caryl Ehrlich: Not sure when this is ending but if you care to reach me you can call 212-986-7155 in New York. Or Write to Caryl Ehrlich c/o The Caryl Ehrlich Program at 104 East 40th Street - suite 207D - New York City, NY 10016

You can check out my website at www.ConquerFood.com, or email me at Caryl@ConquerFood.com.

If in New York, Next Tuesday the 23rd there is a book discussion /signing at Barnes and Noble at 600 Fifth Avenue which is 48thStreet and Fifth Avenue.

New York, N.Y.: Your book is terrific, Caryl. The epigraph at the front has stayed with me: the addiction is "not food, but to "the cycle itself." Which I understand to mean our ceremonies that have food as a major component. Such as having to eat while watching television/ while reading the paper/ while worrying. How do you understand that quote?

Caryl Ehrlich: When I was begining my program, I tried to convince myself that I ate the chocolate at 3 in the morning because it tasted good. But when there was nothing in the apartment at 3 in the moring except dry cereal and I was eating it by the handful, I knew it wasn't becuase it tasted good. I ate it becaues it was there and I was self-medicating. The substance is what we get used to. If I came from a different family I might like beer.

Houston, Tex.: Can you, with your understanding of the issues, shed some light on the motives behind the practice of the obese to instist that others accomodate them (airlines, other passengers, employers)when, aside from the small percentage that have phisiologial causes, that issue should rightfully be addressed by the obese themselves?

Caryl Ehrlich: I think a lot of obese people feel helpless and hopeless they are so knotted with their habits of using food inappropriately for so many reasons. then there is the other side.. the naturally thin person who is so arrogant about weight. . I've heard "If you really wanted to be thin you'd do such and such" as if any of us set out to weigh more than the average person. . Yes. The obese need to address the issues themselves but when we stop self-medicating with food, the feelings and thoughts come to the top and eventually we have to deal with the lonliness and sadness and anger that caused us to want to distract in the first place.

Rockville, Md.: I am so scared that I will always be a slave to my food addiction. Food has been my constant comfort and companion for my entire life (I am almost 28). I have days when all I can think about is when the next morsel of food will hit my mouth, other days I see how long I can go without eating after I workout because I feel powerful and more feminine for not needing to eat. Food is such the enemy to me. It got me up to 477 pounds and has kept me from losing this last 70 pounds. I eat to celebrate, to commiserate, to overcompensate, and to satiate. And I am in therapy, but so afraid to address this because I know that I focus on this to avoid focusing on my true issue: self loathing. How can your book help me? Tell me how, because I don't want to be 30 and still a slave to eating.

Caryl Ehrlich: Address it and welcome it because at the end, the new way will really feel much better. To address the issue is what is going to be healing. If you don't address it, the overeating will not go away. What happens is that people distract themselves not to nourish the body but to zone out and numbing themselves.

Caryl Ehrlich: Thanks for all your wonderful questions and I hope I helped a little. Onward and downward -- if there wasn't a question that wasn't answered, feel free to email me at caryl@conquerfood.com.

washingtonpost.com:

That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.

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