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The Chat House
With Tony Kornheiser
and Michael Wilbon
Washington Post Columnists
Special Time: Thursday, June 21, 2001;
2 p.m. ET
Are you a sports junkie? Can't get enough of Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon fighting each other in the sports and style pages of The Washington Post? It's your chance to talk to both gurus LIVE!
Wilbon will be in The Chat House on Thursday with guest host David Sheinin, The Post's Orioles beat writer. Sheinin hopes to get Wilbon into a baseball state of mind and talk about Cal Ripken and the Orioles.
Submit questions before or during today's discussion.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: Good afternoon and welcome back to The Chat House... a day early. Mike is in The House today joined by special guest Dave Sheinin. Well, Mike is actually in the cafeteria right now getting lunch so Dave is going to start off the discussion. --Mary
Hi everyone. Let's go. --Dave
Ann Arbor, Mich.:
Do you think Cal Ripken's retirement announcement will make it more likely that Tony Gwynn will also retire at the end of the year?
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: I would say no only b/c if Tony Gwynn is firecely independent and stubborn in a good way, the same way that Cal is. For historical purposes, it would be a nice bit of symmetry to have them go out at the same time and go into Cooperstown at the same time. But the commments I read this am from Gwynn indicate he's not ready to bow out and w/players like Gwynn and Ripken, they are the only ones that can make that call. --Dave
Washington, D.C.:
Dave -- I'm lucky enough to have gotten a ticket for the Sept. 30 game from a friend of mine. I've heard rumblings, though, that Cal might not play after the Camden Yards finale. Is there any truth to that?
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: I can't say for certain, but it would be totally against everything Cal has represented in the last 21 years for him to sit out games on his own volition when he's healthy. So unless he's hurt or unless Mike Hargrove, the manager would chose not to play him in that game and I don't think that he would do that, I think it's safe to say Cal would be in the line-up on Sept. 30. So, don't sell your ticket. --Dave
Baltimore, Md.:
Hey Guys,
Cal Ripken is an average player. He just showed up for work every day. The number of at bats he took to reach his numbers is probably the highest of any decent major league player. If a kid shows up to school every day till he graduates with a C average, he wouldn't be a honors student. Save me the off the field community work. Gag. So does Mother Teressa but she isn't going to the Hall of Fame.
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: Well I think it's true in a sesne that Cal's career numbers, the milestones such as 3000 hits and 400 homers were achieved largely b/c of the sheer number of games and at bats he had in his career. However, they are still unassailable milestones and in baseball, 3000 hits is a crowning achievement in a career and you also have to remember that Ripken was one of the best defensive short stops of his era and he won 2 MVP awards. And MVP awards obviously have nothing to do w/longevity. I don't think you get much of an argument if you said Cal deserves to be the first ballot Hall of Famer. And, btw, I heard Mother Teresa was a pretty good 2nd baseman in her day. --Dave
Mike is still in the cafeteria. He'll be here soon. --Mary
Loyal Post Reader:
Both Angelos and Ripken have given stories to the Post rather than the Sun ... I'm sure Angelos has plenty of reasons for not liking the Sun, but I'm not sure about Cal. I would have thought that Cal could have tweaked Angelos if he wanted to by going to the Sun on this one. Any insight as to why these guys don't deal with the hometown paper? (And congratulations for getting the story.)
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: I think they are 2 very different cases. I think Angelos had issues w/some of the Sun's columnists and as a result sort of shut out the Sun to a large degree. But, he still talks regularly on the record to Peter Schmuck, who is the Sun's national baseball writer. W/Cal, I don't think there is any deep seated hatred for The Sun. I'd like to think that even if I had been working for The Sun, I would have gotten the story b/c of the relationship that I've built w/Cal and hopefully, dare I say, the level of comfort he felt w/me. --Dave
Seattle, WA:
Hi. Some of us here in the NW are still smarting from the loss of A-rod, and Cal's retirement underscores the special wire-to-wire career with one team. Do you think future generations of players have an appreciation for his entire hall of fame career being played out w/ one team?
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: I think players can respect that and I think you hear a lot of players say that they would love to play their whole careers in one city. But, then something always comes along that tends to upset that and you can probably guess what that one thing is. --Dave
Money! --Mary
A-Rod had 252 million reasons to leave Seattle and go to Texas. So, it sounds great in a concept, but the reality is something different. --Dave
Washington, D.C.:
Dave, great scoop. Check out the tribute someone wrote in the letters to the editor of The Post today. Kind of sums Cal up pretty good.
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: I haven't seen yet, but I'll check it out. Thanks. --Dave
Wesley Heights:
Sooooo Sheinin,
Everyone wants to know how you got the HUGE scoop on Cal retiring! How'd ya get it?
Also on that front, There must not be any love lost between the Iron Man and Angelos/Hargrove. They didn't get any heads up on this. They found out from the media.
What's the issue(s) between them?
I don't think I said this; great job on the scoop! The reporters over at the Baltimore Sun must not be able to sit down for awhile after their editors took them to the woodshed for being bested in their backyard.
Did Deep Throat help out on this?
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: As I said I earlier, the short answer is I asked the right question at the right time. The longer answer is that I've spent most of 3 years building a strong, professional relationship w/Cal and I think he felt comfortable answering my question at that particular time. Knowing Cal, nothing he does is spontaneous and I like to think that he wanted me to ask the question. As to your other questions, the issues between Angelos/Hargrove.. that's a little dicey. I think that Cal's relationship w/the organization was hurt forever when they fired his father and manager in 1988. And, I don't know too many of the specifics, but he and Angelos are both very individualistic and very powerful men and it was probably inevitable that they would butt heads from time to time. W/Hargrove, I think they have a very good player manager relationship. But, nothing more. I would say that Joe Strauss at The Sun is probably the best reporter I've ever competed against on a beat and he has kicked my tail many times so I know how it feels. --Dave
SHOUT OUT FROM TONY: I know I'm not supposed to be here. I'm in my office working on a Sunday column and I just want to join w/all of you in congratulating Dave on the Cal Ripken scoop and in a larger sense congratulating newspapers for still assigning people to cover teams and get to know the players and the management in a way that facilitates this kind of reporting. That TV stuff, as well as it pays, it's about putting athletes and others on pedestals. It's not about reporting. The toughest thing in sports journalism is being there every day and writing hard, objective stuff and then facing those same people the next day. That's all I want to say except that I'M HERE and Wilbon is downstairs stuffing his FAT face in the cafeteria when it was HE who changed the day of The Chat to work out better for HIS schedule. Bye. --Tony
Gee, thanks Tony. --Dave
Rockville, MD:
Hi Dave,
Congrats on the scoop! Take us a little inside the sports beat. What time did Cal tell you he was retiring? How did you tip off the news desk once you had the news? Was there a private place you could use to talk to your editors? While the game was being played, did you write about the game as usual or did you sneak away to write about Cal's retirement? Any other "Deep Throat"-type details would be appreciated.
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: The interview took place at around 4:30 Monday afternoon in the dug out at Camden Yards and by out 5 pm, I had called my editor and the rest of the night was spent writing the story and trying to keep it a secret. I tried to be as normal as possible around the other reporters. I sat at my same spot in the press box and wrote during the game as I would on pretty much any other night. And, I'm proud to say I went ahead and wrote the game story after the game. --Mike
Wow. You rock. Mike's phone is ringing, but he's not here to answer it. --Mary
It's probably Jordan. --Dave
The District:
Of course Cal is the big story, but what about the rest of the Orioles? They're acquitting themselves pretty well for a team that was supposed to be worse than the Devil Rays.
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: Yeah, I'd say that's true. I wouldn't be fooled, however, b/c this is clearly a rebuilding year and I don't believe they consider themselves contenders agains the Yankees and the Red Sox. At the same time, they've done far better than anyone ever suspected. I tend to look at this season as being less about wins and losses then about developing and discovering young players. The emergence of players such as Chris Richard, Jerry Hairston and Josh Towers is far more important than how many games they win. --Dave
washingtonpost.com:
The link to the submit questions bar should be fixed. Thanks for the heads up.
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: News flash. Mike is back from the cafeteria. --Mary
Unlike other people, actually unlike another person who is sitting 11 ft away from The Chat House but is not actually in The Chat House, I wanted to do this today so that we could talk A LOT about Cal and the upcoming NBA draft instead of not being able to do a Chat at all. I start vacation in about 3 hours and would not be available tomorrow. So, I thought doing this today would be better--- MUCH better--- than not at all. So, I hope this is not an inconvienence for those visiting the Chat House. Plus that we are graced w/the presence of Mr. Sheinin who has broken the biggest scoop in sports reporting this year. So, Tony can shut his yap. I'm here. --Mike
Charm City DC:
Wilbon
While I liked your article earlier this week, it really burns me up to see you write about the Orioles. You hate the team, you hate the city and you're not shy about saying so. Because of this, your positive comments about Cal came off as most insincere...in private I can almost hear you talking about Cal being selfish, staying in his own hotel rooms, creating cliques on the team, etc.
Oh, and great scoop Sheinin. I love you stickin' it to the Sun...more proof that the O's are DC's hometown team (moreso than NoVA ever will be).
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: First of all, I didn't write about the O's. I'm not even sure I mentioned the word Orioles. I wrote about Cal Ripken. Now, you bring up some remarks from years and years ago which is probably fair, concerning a selfish period in his life. I've had these periods. I don't know you, but I bet you've had them. You're probably having one now. But, you write about things as they happen. This is a newspaper. And we report on things daily as they are at that moment. On balance, no, make that overwhelmingly Ripken has been a blessing to baseball and to professional sports. Does it mean that every single he's done in his life is perfect and right? No. But, you have to look at the entire picture of who he is, how he evolved and what he has come to stand for. What do you think Sheinin? --Mike
That's all you man. --Dave
DC:
So how did the Sun and USAToday get the story from the Post in time to make it in the same day's paper quoting that day's issue of the Post?
Sounds like voodoo!
Or did you let them in on it after you filed and instructed them they had to cite the Post?
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: B/c of the web site and the 1st edition of the paper which you can buy at the 7-11 before midnight. Stories don't keep all that often in this electronic age completely overnight. There is competition out there from a million places. This isn't the 70's when there were 3 or 4 papers and 3 networks working on something. Every knucklehead and his brother is trying to break something and put it on the Internet and there are 100 all sports radio stations w/reporters carrying microphones around 24 hrs a day. So, we put this out there as we would in any first edition. And, at 11:30 Baseball Tonight and the late SportsCenter and the wires were obligated professionally to attribute where this news came from which is from the keyboard of Sheinin. --Mike
They didn't credit it exactly like that. --Dave
They damn should have. We credit all the time.--Mike
Of course, once they got their own confirmation which I believe came from the O's and Cal's own PR person, they stopped crediting us, but who are we to quibble? --Dave
Red Sox fan here::
So, since the Red Sox have been mentioned...could this be the year they break the curse of the Bambino? I just read that some guy who climbed Everest had a Sox cap blessed by a lama, and he left it at the peak of the mountain. He also burned a NY Yankees cap, for good measure. Seems to be working, my beloved Fenway team is now leading the d... Yankees by 3 1/2. Not that curses and mountains are powerful or anything...so what do the sports scribes have to predict on this one?
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: Yeah, I would say that this could possibly be the year, I'm not ready to say they are going to do it, but it seems to me they have staved off the curse thus far b/c already this season, they lost Nomar Garciaparra for probably 5 months. They lost their catcher Jason Varitek for probably 2 months. They lost Pedro Martinez for a couple of weeks and their manager and GM have had a public spat all year long. And despite all those things, they've still managed to hang onto first place. --Dave
To hell w/the Red Sox. You people think you are the only baseball fans who suffer? I'm a Cubs fan. Who do you think has won a World Series more recently? The Cubs? Or The Red Sox? Who do you think has even been in a World Series more recently, the Red Sox or the Cubs? I would like to see the Cubs and the Red Sox in the World Series this year. But, the truth is neither one of them is getting to the World Series so there. --Mike
Eye Street, 20006:
Why wouldn't the Wizards pick someone like Shane Battier in the draft? It seems to me that as someone who has already demonstrated a level of maturity and leadership and has already faced the highest level of competition, he would be a better choice than a kid fresh out of high school.
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: What do you mean someone LIKE Shane Battier? You either take him or you don't. There is no one else like him in the draft. I would take either Battier or Kwame Brown, the 7 ft kid from Georgia. And the draft hasn't come yet so maybe they will take Battier. But, stop acting like you know the end of this story cuz you don't. There are plenty of players we all thought were going to be big stars based on what they did in college and they didn't become stars at all. My bet is that Battier will have a really positive impact almost immediately. But, this is no done deal. --Mike
Yeah, I'd draft Battier b/c I think he's the kind of person more so than the type of player to build a franchise around. --Dave
Arlington, VA:
Thanks for this chat. Do you think the Orioles can win again under the Angelos regime? I had given up hope after last July 31, but this season has given me some respect for S. Thrift & Co. Also, what's the latest buzz on DC getting a team? That whole thing seemes boneheaded to me- if Chicago can't make two teams work why can Balt-Wash?
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: I'm not going to say it's impossible. I think they are still more than a year away from being a contender. But I think they are doing it the right way. As difficult as it was to do, they had to tear this thing down and build it back up again. The team got old all at once and as much as the media and the fans like to criticize the trades last year, it was a necessary first step. --Dave
Some of us just like to rip Angelos b/c it's fun. --Mike
Right. I got nothing against that. But what the O's have right now is a nucleus. And over the next couple of years, the farm system will start producing impact players and they can use free agency to bring in complimentary parts as opposed to the other way around when you build through free agency and use your farm system for complimentary parts. They knew they were in for a couple of painful years, but it was the only way to do it. --Dave
Mike, a Cubs fan?:
Wait a minute, Mike. I thought you grew up on the South Side, rooting for the Sox. Sounds like you're messing with our minds here...
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: I grew up on the South Side. I grew up there from 1958 to 1980, a time when Chicago was probably the most segregated city in America. Ball players did not make a ton of money then and the black ball players from both the Cubs and Sox lived in my neighborhood..... guys like Walt (No Neck) Williams, Billy Williams, Ernie Banks. Bill Melton, the former White Sox slugger who is white, was the Grand Marshall of our Little League. He lived w/Walt Williams on the South Side. I'm the same age at Ernie Banks' twins. So, you can see this is a little unique and I was not going to root against guys who were big league ball players who lived where I lived b/c some adults objected to a 10 year old not picking a team. And even today I could care less that people want a nice, clean pick-a-team relationship. But, there are more grays in my life than that. And, that's the deal and anybody who can't deal w/that... I don't really care. --Mike
D.C.:
Mike, were you late for your wedding? As a frequent visitor to the Chat House, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but, it appears you would be late for your own funeral. Is this the only item on your agenda that gives you trouble?
On the draft, has anything been tipped as to what Jordan is leading towards. Whatever he does, I hope it proves to be a good move because this draft will go a long way in determining the course of this team for the rest of the decade. Keep up the good work.
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: Yes, I was late for my wedding. It'll be really impressive if I can keep up this habit right to the end and be late for my funeral. --Mike
montGOMERy, Alabama:
Should Deion kill himself, retire, or just fall off the face of the earth?
Thanks,
Steve Hall
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: Steve, I think he should play for the Redskins. I still love watching the guy perform and he's certainly a better CB than he is a center fielder. I guess what I'm saying is get him out of my court and get him into yours. --Dave
Dave, that's far too sensible an answer to try to one up. Makes sense to me. --Mike
Silver Spring:
Guys, any thoughts on Barry Bonds? Have either of you had to deal with him? How will hold up under the media spotlight?
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: I dealt w/him. He's a jerk. Although, away from the field I kind of like him. He's smart and when he wants to be, very engaging. But, in the last few years, I stopped caring whether players talk to the media or not. I'm tired of that whole thing. If he continues to have this kind of summer, it's a special thing, regardless of his personality or eccentricities. --Mike
Just remember that in 1998, most people thought Mark McGwire would wilt under the intense media glare and instead he turned it up a notch and embraced the entire experience and turned it into something really special instead of something sinister. --Dave
Yeah, but Dave, McGwire didn't do that until Sosa changed the tenor of the whole summer and I think sharing the stage and the spotlight helped McGwire IMMENSELY. Bonds doesn't have anyone to share it w/. He's going to get all the attention all the time. Now, I think playing his home games in that ballpark, he is definitely going to hit 65. But, if his response to post season pressure foreshadows anything, he's going to have a tough time down the stretch w/what I think is a similar pressure. --Mike
I can't argue w/that. --Dave
Washington, D.C.:
Dave, is there anything you could tell Wilbon to make him like the Orioles? I mean, I don't like them either because of their sniveling little owner, but maybe there's something there that I should like about them?
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: Albert Belle is gone. --Dave
Laughter...
That's good. Okay. Here's something: Ashley Judd and Halle Berry are going to purchase the team from Angelos and sit in the owners box all 81 home games per season. That will make me like the Orioles. --Mike
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: The Ripken stuff has been very interesting the past couple of days. But, it's back to pulled hamstrings and missed cutoffs men for me. --Dave
It's back to vacation for me. That means golf, sleep, pay-per-view movies on Direct TV, more golf, more sleep. Anyone have any other suggestions? Clean ones. --Mike
PS: We're still going to have occassional summer Chat Houses so you people aren't off the hook that easy. Tony does nothing but vacation for 50 weeks anyway, so what the heck does the summer mean to him? --Mike
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: WAIT. Excuse me? What is this that Tony does nothing but take vacation 50 weeks a year. Tony takes the month of August off. Tony has 2 full time jobs and goes to sleep at 9:30 every night. People should feel sorry for Tony, not poke fun at him. --Tony
Do you always talk in the 3rd person? --Mary
What are you Bo Jackson? --Mike
Tony is suffering from Battered Dad syndrome. Tony is tired. Rich, but tired. Good Bye. --Tony
Washington, DC:
This is somewhat in response to the comment by the person saying Cal was/is only an average player and the milestones are the result of longevity, nothing more. You must take two things into consideration when viewing Cal's numbers: his position and his era. Cal got the vast majority of his at-bats in the pre-juiced ball/watered-down pitching days prior to 1996 or so. League leaders some years wouldn't break 40 dingers and 20+ was considered a good power year and Cal had about 10 straight 20+ homer years. Second, the man played shortstop. No one played shortstop with the power he did over such a long time. Shortstop is a position where your number one need is defense. Cal provided that, and he also threw in a .280 average, 20+ homers and 90+ RBI for most of his career.
Michael Wilbon and Dave Sheinin: One final comment. --The Chat House
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