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From Kindergarten to
College
High School:
Sleep, School Start Times
With Pat Britz
Researcher, National Sleep Foundation
Tuesday, Aug. 21, 2001; Noon EDT
Why does high school have to start so early? Some, including researchers at the National Sleep Foundation, don't think it does. In fact, the foundation is one of the groups leading the charge in the fight for later high school start times. This September, Arlington will become the first county in the area to open its doors later.
Pat Britz, of the National Sleep Foundation, was online Tuesday, Aug. 21 at Noon EDT to take your questions and comments about school start times.
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Washington, D.C.:
I'm wondering if this isn't just an excuse and reason to indulge America's increasingly lazy young people. There's nothing wrong with learning the discipline of sticking to a schedule and waking up when you may not want to. What's next? Teenagers can't concentrate on Fridays, so lets not have school then?
Pat Britz: Studies have been done on teens where they were allowed to sleep when and as long as they needed to. They also did lab work by extracting melatonin - the natural hormone in the brain that promotes sleep. Under these circumstances, adolescents did not produce melatonin until later at night when their bodies would naturally need to sleep - around 11:00 pm. They also found that teens need, on average, about 9 hours of sleep. This shift during adolescence means that the body would naturally fall asleep around 11:00 pm and they would be physiologically asleep until around around 8:00 am. However, teens need to get up earlier to get to school and often falling asleep in their morning classes and sleep deprived throughout the day. Another study showed that teens who work more than 20 hours do not sleep as well and have more problems. So, the important thing is for teens to get enough sleep and establish a regular schedule so that they are able to perform better.
Annandale, Va.:
My daughter is a high school senior in Fairfax, where senior high students start their day at 7:05 a.m. Have any studies been conducted to determine if the same techniques that travelers use to adjust to different time zones (including melatonin) can help teens adjust their metobolic propensity for late rising/late bedtimes to a different schedule?
Pat Britz: The truth is that travelers as well as shift workers do not adjust over the long term to a shift in time zones. Melatonin may assist that effort, but it is not recommended for long term use and does not have FDA approval.
All persons sleep best and get enough sleep when they establish a schedule in accordance with their natural biological clock, which regulates when they need to sleep and wake. Studies now show that teens experience a shift physiologically to a later sleep and wake cycle. For optimal health, safety and performance, teens should establish a regular schedule that is in sync with this schedule and is not continually readjusted.
Fairfax, Va.:
I thought schools started when then did to avoid rush hour traffic. If schools start and let out later, won't there be a problem?
Pat Britz: Some schools have set earlier times to avoid traffic, but studies now show that earlier times leave high school students sleep deprived and they are not able to be alert or concentrate - especially in the morning when their sleep is disrupted by societal demands. Also, this puts them at risk for behavioral problems, difficulties learning and can lead to driving drowsy.
Yes, many school have run up against other issues when attempting to start later such as bus schedules, after-school sports and jobs, etc. The bottom line, however, is that their primary purpose is to educate students and the opportunity to do so is being wasted when students are too sleep deprived to be alert and receptive to instruction.
Alexandria, Va.:
Why don't high schools just have nap time like kindergarten does?
Pat Britz: Naps could be a partial answer to the problem. But, it is not a long-term solution because there is no substitute for 9 hours of consolidated sleep where one goes into the deep, restorative sleep that all of us need to perform best and for a healthy and safe life.
Most young children - until the age of about 5 -need more than one period of sleep because the architecture of their sleep is somewhat different. As you get older, the best is one continuous period of nighttime sleep.
Arlington, Va.:
So, teens natural clock says stay up later, sleep later. What is an adult's sleep schedule in the 20s, 30s, 40s...?
Pat Britz: Somewhere is the 20's - we don't know exactly when - most adults shift back into, what we might consider a more normal schedule that often complies with our work world or daily schedule. Adults - even older adults - need around 8 hours of sleep. Unless they have advanced or delayed phase syndrome (an earlier or later natural schedule)this often means going to bed when you need to in order to get up at the time that will offer you about 8 hours of sleep. Often, older adults will shift into an advanced or earlier schedule, but again, they still need about the same amount of sleep.
Herndon, Va.:
When I was in high school, I played sports in the evening and was already ready for bed by 9-9:30 p.m. I didn't have any problems waking up for school or staying awake in any of my classes. Do you think that a lack of activity is stretching kids energy reserves so they don't get tired until late at night?
Pat Britz: It sounds like you got enough sleep and had a regular routine, which is really helpful for sleep.
Actually, kids seem to be very active these days and scheduled into a lot of activities. We do not, however, recommend that kids watch TV, use the computer or do rigorous physical or mental activity close to bed because it makes it harder to go to sleep as well as maintain sleep. There should be a transition into sleep that is relaxing including less light around. Exercise is helpful for promoting sleep, but not too close to bedtime.
Fairfax, Va.:
I don't know if people realize what a big problem this is. When I was in high school six years ago, we had a 7:15 a.m. start. This meant most students left their homes to get to school by 6:30, so they often got up at 5:30 -- except for those who had early sports, who got up even earlier. I rarely got more than five hours of sleep, and I wasn't ever out partying. It was horrific. I was depressed, stressed -- a mess. High schools and elementary schools should switch start times, at the very least. Don't studies show younger children do O.K. with early starts?
Pat Britz: Sorry, I cut that reply off too soon.
To finish, studies show that the shift to a later sleep schedule probably occurs in the pre-teen to teen years - around 13-19 years of age. Younger children are on an earlier schedule and do not have the natural tendency to to to sleep or wake later.
Washington, D.C.:
What about junior high students?
Pat Britz: Some students in junior high may shift to a later sleep-wake schedule just as maturation occurs at different ages. Generally, the age range is 13-19, but children as young as 10 may experience this shift.
Arlington, Va.:
Can you explain why later start times are better for high school students? What's wrong with learning the discipline of waking up according to a schedule?
Pat Britz: Most high school students experience a natural sleep pattern that means they do not physically get tired until around 11:00 pm and still need as much sleep as when they were younger - around 9 hours. Even if they are lying in bed before that, they may not be able to fall asleep. This shift to a later sleep schedule is physiologically based and is known to occur in adolescents who have participated in research where they are allowed to sleep when and as long as needed. Melatonin is taken and their activities are monitored. Their bodies and brains need this amount of sleep and they will sleep better on a later schedule in order to perform better mentally, behaviorally and physically.
Midlothian, Va.:
I'm glad this issue is finally getting some much-needed attention. High school students are not very alert at 7:30 in the morning.
Pat Britz: Absolutely, especially because they are not naturally tired until 11:00 pm and need 8 1/2-9 1/4 hours of sleep. When they get up and are sleep deprived, their brains are still in the sleep mode at 7:30 and they experience the consequences of sleep deprivation throughout the day.
Alexandria, Va.:
I'm still convinced that daytime fatigue at school is simply caused by staying up too late. The teens I know are seldom in bed before 11 p.m., which is about an hour later than I could realistically handle when I was their age. These kids don't appear to be studying the entire night by any means.
I believe that getting up early for school is one of the foundations of discipline and time management. College will be a rude awakening for the kids who can't "finish" their high school homework before midnight.
Pat Britz: Teens find it difficult to fall asleep before 11:00 pm. When they get up too early, they do not get enough sleep and may, in fact, be at risk for less discipline as well as difficulty remaining alert, paying attention, and driving. Of course, they should not be doing homework that late - rather something relaxing - or they may have difficulty even falling asleep at a late hour. Time management of all of their activities is important - even allocating the needed 9 hours of sleep so that they can perform at their best.
Charlotte, N.C.:
When do these physiological changes that you refer to really begin? Older teens, younger teens, pre-teens? I've got a 12-year old daughter who increasingly seems able to (and wants to) stay up later. What's a realitic bedtime for a pre-teen to maximize their school performance?
Thanks.
Pat Britz: It may be somewhat related to developmental stage of the child. It can occur in the middle-school child and as early as 10 years of age, but in general, research has focused on 13-19 year olds. In this age range, teens need 8 1/2-9 1/4 hours of sleep and do shift to a later sleep schedule. A realistic bedtime for a pre-teen, 12 year old would be to go to bed at the time that allows her to get about 10 hours of sleep.
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