From Kindergarten to
College
Vending Machines in Schools
With David Nakamura
Washington Post Reporter
Thursday, Aug. 23, 2001; Noon EDT
The use of vending machines in schools is a hot topic in many parts of the country, including the Washington, D.C. area. Some schools, through lucrative deals with Coke and Pepsi, raise as much as $100,000 or more each year by selling sodas, candy and snacks to students.
Should the schools engage in such commercialism and make a profit off students? David Nakamura, who covers education for The Washington Post, will be online Thursday, Aug. 23, at Noon EDT, to discuss this controversial issue.
Nakamura has covered the Prince George's, Md. school system for two and a half years, writing stories on busing, magnet schools and ongoing conflicts among the school board and superintendent. Before that he covered the Loudon, Va. schools for one and a half years where the chief issues included new school construction and school crowding.
A transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
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David Nakamura: Hi everyone. Thanks for joining us for a discussion that almost anyone can relate to. Vending machines proved to be a more controversial issue than I had imagined, considering the machines were just hitting schools back when I graduated from Fairfax County schools in the late 1980s. Now, these machines are ubiquitous. Anyhow, we can discuss the pros and cons and anything else you're interested in.
Maryland:
As a high school student, I realize that vending machines may not be the most nutritional snacks/lunches during the day, however they are a great helping in getting a quick burst of energy to keep you until lunch. My school has an open lunch policy in which we can go off campus to buy food at the local supermarket, a minute's walk away, or at a variety of places where we can buy the same things as in the vending machines. I believe that not being able to buy a snack (they can be healthy) is hard for students who are hungry and must wait over an hour until their lunch period begins because vending machines will be off. How do you think turning off the machines will/won't aid in getting better nutrition to students who have access to going off campus whenever they wish for food?
David Nakamura: You make some interesting points. Not all Washington area schools have open lunch policies, but for those that do, students are able to eat pretty much anything. THe problem some parents have about leaving the machines on all day is that it encourages students to eat sugary or salty snacks and discourages them from either bringing more heathly food or eating what is served in the cafeteria. Some students I talked to for the story were ignoring the balanced lunches their parents had prepared in favor of candy bars and sodas.
Bethesda, Md.:
Bad idea to keep them on during the school day. I was one of those skinny, HIGH activity kids (borderline hyperactive) and believe me, if I had had access to them, I would've completely shot any hope of a balanced diet in the foot.
When they're in high school and get to go off-campus for lunch, then let them go, but don't encourage them to stock up on junk food during the school day. DUH! I mean, jacking yourself up with chocolate and soda and then snoozing through pre-calculus in an insulin-induced fog just will not be appreciated by the teachers. Or the parents.
David Nakamura: Yes, the nutritional value -- or lack thereof -- has concerned some administrators who are already dealing with some students who have too much or too little energy. The funny thing is that most contracts stipulate that soda companies will also sell juice products. But Pepsi, in particular, offers juices with as little as 5 percent of real fruit juice. So even getting juice can be misleading.
Virginia:
Is there a difference between D.C. schools and suburbs schools in the use of the vending machines?
David Nakamura: Good question, Virginia. There are some differences in all school districts, and especially between states. Most all schools offer some sort of vending, but often the products, the number of machines and the time they're turned on or off varies. In Maryland and Va, state regulations say the machines should be kept off during lunch hours, but a lot of schools I visited ignored that rule. Principals say the money they raise is needed in a time of budget cutbacks. DC schools also raise money with vending machines, but it varies widely and some raise tens of thousands of dollars while others raise far less.
Alexandria, Va.:
The story of the student who was suspended for wearing a Pepsi t-shirt on "Coke Day" at his high school in Georgia has been repeated regularly since it happened in 1998, as an example of where schools are heading in their quest for dollars at the expense of the students. Certainly no one argues that schools don't need the money, so I imagine it's hard for opposition against sponsorship to make its case. In our area, have any local school boards taken a meaningful stand against taking advantage of students in this way?
David Nakamura: As for what stand school boards have taken, they generally are fairly quiet on the issue. Some Virignia districts, such as Fairfax, seemed to have gone to stricter controls, limiting when the machines can be turned on. But in maryland, there seemed to be less oversight. In Prince George's, Superintendent Iris Metts asked for a study on the machines and appeared to be interested in centralizing the profits to use for the entire system, instead of individual schools. But she backed off because some schools would have been upset since they raised more than $100,000 a year, while otehrs raised as little as $20,000.
Hoboken, N.J.:
Comment:
It is perfectly fine for the school to engage in such commercialism, as long as the prices are at or below market rate -- but not higher (price-gouging is not a practice schools should engage in). One of the many valuable lessons students need to learn at school is about money, how much things cost, and what it takes to buy things. They'll appreciate their parents' hard-earned money if they realized that $20 only buys you so much of food for a week.
If the profits made from students' purchases at vending machines are put back to benefit them, from improved gyms and classrooms to hiring better teachers, it is well worth it. Further, it is financially easier for students' parents to contribute to bettering their childrens' schools a little each day than to dole out hundreds or even thousands of dollars during school donation drives.
David Nakamura: Hi Hoboken. Well said. It's a good point to think that high school students should be getting old enough to monitor their own spending on snack food and decide for themselves how much of it to eat. The funny thing is that when I went into some cafeterias, there were some small, sparse-looking salads, but most kids loaded up on chicken nuggets, fries and pizza -- not exactly healthy or balanced food.
Washington, D.C:
What is wrong with having vending machines in schools to raise money? Fund raising activities have been going on in the school system for years, sales for candy, pizzas you name it,they sold it.
If some of the school district's teachers are complaining that the schools don't have money to buy supplies or books that are updated. Then, the monies collected from the vending machine companies should go toward such student needs and this should be monitored to make sure that it is allocated in that way.
David Nakamura: One of the interesting things about the money raised from the machines is that there seemed to be little central office oversight on how the money was spent. I heard rumors that some of the money was being used on questionable purchases by some principals, but I could not find any evidence of that. A couple principals had a specific ledger of their spending -- on computers, wiring, teacher bonuses, band uniforms -- but others had little solid record keeping and said the money was lumped with other school funds and it was impossible to break out how the vending profits were spent.
David Nakamura: Rockville, Md.: After just graduating from the IB program at Richard Montgomery High School in Rockville, Md., I would argue high school vending machine access during school is better for the students. After five hours of sleep four nights in row, a needed Coke/Pepsi allows one to comprehend the lesson at 8:00 a.m. School officials need to decide, is it better to have caffeinated students obtaining knowledge while the school is making a profit, or exhausted students with closed eyes who wish they were learning?
Hi Rockville. I hope you're not getting such little sleep because your teachers are piling excessive amounts of homework on you. That's another story entirely! You make a good point, but I'd say getting more sleep would be a better solution to your tiredness than eating more sugar. Although I can relate to what you're saying from my all-nighter college days, I'd have to say moderating your caffeine would be smart. Listen to me. I'm sounding old!
Washington, D.C.:
I went to high school in the 80's. We had one machine that vended only juice, and it was turned off during the day and at lunch. I sympathize with the student who said many students need snacks to tide them over until lunch. I am hypoglycemic and need regular snacks. I solved that by bringing them with me - granola bars, a cut up apple (so you can snack on it bit by bit throughout the morning between classes), cheese and cracker packs, and other snacks that are much healthier than chocolate and sodas.
David Nakamura: Good points, washington. What happened to the days of parents packing their children balanced snacks and meals? When I was in middle school, my friends made fun of me because my mom always packed "creative lunches" filled with healthy food. Of course I envied their pizzas, etc...and when I got to high school I told my mom not to bother any more. I know not all children/students have parents who can give them that kind of time and attention. One thing some schools do is try to teach about nutrition during health classes. That could help kids pack their own snacks with nutrition in mind.
David Nakamura: Can I throw a question out there for those participating in this chat? What school lunch food do you most remember eating? I'll post the best replies.
Maryland:
Hello. One thing I noticed is that the new quarters with the state name on it don't work for vending machines. Hard to find the old quarters for my son to use at school.
David Nakamura: Is this for real? Or a joke. Either way, it's funny.
Baltimore, Md.:
Taking vending machines out of school altogether is a bad idea. In high school, I was active in a number of extracurricular activities, like drama & It's Academic, that required that I stay at school long after the school day was finished, and I wasn't always able to get away long enough to get food elsewhere. If it weren't for the vending machines, I would have starved to death.
They should definitely have more healthy options, though.
David Nakamura: That's a great point, Baltimore. Here's the thing: Most schools agree that having vending machines turned on AFTER school is fine. No one really argues that. It's just that most keep them on during school, even during lunch. Some schools had two dozen vending machines. They were tucked in every nook and cranny of the school. Another issue some critics have is that there should be NO commercialization in schools, so the neon Pepsi and Coke signs that dominate school hallways would have to be covered up.
20037:
I believe that families still have more impact on a student's behavior that anyone/anything else, including vending machines. I was raised not eating junk food and did not purchase anything at my high school's vending machines; I did buy fruit juice occasionally. Therefore, I believe that parents should do try to do a better job first before complaining about vending machines at school.
David Nakamura: Yes, the parents' role in school-related issues is always up for debate. Some stress that parents should instill such lessons in their children. Others argue that kids under-18 are under the custody of the principal and otehr school administrators during the day and those people should montior their behavior. Again, not all students will learn lessons from their parents and peer pressure can be tough to deal with. I can see it now, a new "Just Say No" campaign -- not to drugs but to junk food.
Bethesda:
What do I remember eating in school?
I generally had a packed lunch, but the days I did buy from the cafeteria were usually for the hamburgers/pizza/tacos -- not exactly the healthiest options for lunch, right? If schools are so concerned with nutritional value at lunch, shouldn't they look at the cafeterias first? I can't imagine any of the food is low-fat or even marginally healthy ...
David Nakamura: That's quite right. Any trip to a high school cafeteria shows that they do offer fruit and some salads, but most kids again load up on the carbs like fries and pizza. I remember in high school when they burned pizza they'd offer two-for-one and we growing kids who played sports would happily get the two burned pizza slices and dump ketchup over them. ... i know, too much information. I'll stop now.
Columbia, Md.:
Another comment...
I believe High School students should be able to decide for themselves if they want to buy a snack. However, if vending machines were totally removed, would you see a rise in students skipping classes to make a run to 7-11 because they are hungry?
David Nakamura: Probably depends how close the 7-11 is to the school. If there's one thing some kids hate more than being hungry, it's having to walk a long way. But, seriously, I suspect some kids would leave, but I'd bet most would just bring candy bars or granola bars. Also, there'd be one or two industrious students who would bring boxes of snacks and sell them out of their lockers for a profit. One kid in my middle school did this with gum. He was like one of those NYC watch salemen, who pack up their suitcase and run from the police.
Springfield, Va.:
When I was in high school in Fairfax Cty -- c/o '83 -- I do not remember there being food vending machines. I can dredge up a memory of drinking a soft drink after school, but only with difficulty. I have a very clear recollection of what I ate for lunch EVERY DAY in high school -- chocolate cupcakes (from Hostess?) and lemonade. These I purchased from the cafeteria. There were a variety of choices in addition to the regular lunch. Oh, every once in a while I had yogurt, but that was as nutritious a lunch as I ate (usually).
David Nakamura: Ha. Cupcakes and lemonade. That's old school, for sure. I suspect debates over nutrition weren't as fierce back in the early 1980s. Now, with our health-crazed world, every calorie and carb is noted for the record. But you're right. My parents are both high school teachers in Fairfax and they told me that vending machines are 1990s revolution.
Mt. Rainier:
Having vending machines available is one thing -- questionable, but not venal. The "Coke day" business was obscene, and I felt like cheering the one student who protested by wearing a Pepsi t-shirt. The principal was out of line punishing him for expressing his opinion of that kind of crass use of the kids.
David Nakamura: For those not sure what this poster is referring to, one student in Georgia was suspended for wearing a Pepsi T-shirt on "Coke Day," which was sponsored in a school district by Coke, which offered a sum of money for such an honor. Technically, Coke had students working on various activities that were supposed to help their education and what not, but you've got to admire the hutz-pah of that Pepsi kid. I wonder if Pepsi just hired him on the spot.
Wiredog:
School food: Langley H.S. got a salad bar in my sophomore year (80-81), IIRC. Given the alternatives, I ate alot of salad.
David Nakamura: Ahh, a salad bar. That's probably an anomaly. My high school -- James Madison in Vienna, Va -- offered Taco salad on Thursdays... but only one scoop of chili. We'd try to sneak two scoops. It was classic.
Washington, D.C.:
I most remember, with a bad taste in my mouth, the horrible pizza they served. It was rectangular in shape, with a little bit of tomato sauce (or was it ketchup?), cheese and tiny fake-looking cubes of pepperoni. It tasted like cardboard. I also remember the Little Debby snack cakes -- no fancy Hostess products for our school! I did drink milk every day, though, so that was a plus.
David Nakamura: Amen about the pizza. Funny, tho, how everybody was so hungry they didn't care about the taste. ... unrelated issue: do you all recall the debate over cafeteria trays? in an effort to get people to clean up and throw away the trays, our principal paid 10 cents per tray. Of course, one kid went around all lunch period stocking up trays. He'd even do jumping jacks at the request of the jocks just to get their trays. It was embarassing, but I suspect he made a good $20 a day or something. He's probably a big-time CEO now.
Alexandria, Va.:
I just remember these hexagonal, orange-and-red "fiestadas" or Mexican pizzas that probably had all the nutritional value of cheap cheddar melted onto cardboard, but if I could get one now ...
David Nakamura: gosh, we didn't have those. yikes
Fairfax, Va.:
The best high school food I had (when I immigrated to the U.S.) was lime/mint sorbet. I looked forward to it everyday.
David Nakamura: Mint sorbet? Sheesh, where'd you go to school? the Hamptons?
Lunch Food Reminisce:
Cheese dream on a bun: I have no idea what it was other than some type of cheese product on a hamburger bun. It tasted great to my elementary school taste buds. Can't imagine eating it nowadays with all the grease I remember seeing on it. Brrr...
David Nakamura: It's great when we eat food that we have no idea was it is! the classic mystery meat! cheeze whiz. spam. mmmm. i'm getting hungry. no fair talking about food during lunch hour when we can't get any. Someone get me a vending machine by my desk... just joking.
Baltimore, Md.:
Fave school lunch food: Beef fried noodles.
Where I went to school (Asia), we actually had an interesting system where the cafeterias comprised individual vendors who competed against one another for students' lunch money. This was great because it ensured that the quality of food was good, there was variety and overall, it was very healthy fare because school officials closely monitored what was offered every day. We had one vending machine -- for sodas -- but even that was hardly used because we had such a great cafeteria with a variety of tasty food that everyone always spent their lunch money on real -- and healthy -- food instead. Perhaps that's what schools should work on -- making their cafeteria fare appetizing so students don't turn to these unhealthy snacks to fill them up.
David Nakamura: Ahh, beef fried noodles. sounds great. My guess, baltimore, is that most American students might not eat that. Adults, yes, kids no. But you never know. But otherwise you make excellent points.
Columbia, Md.:
Bad food: hamburgers that tasted and looked like a hockey puck, dried up square pizza.
Good food: Sloppy Joes (ask Adam Sandler)
Re: new quarters -- they had a small defect at first with a few of the state emblems, I know one was the Maryland state house was raised too much off the coin, but I believe that is not much a problem now.
David Nakamura: Hockey puck hamburgers. nice. ... thanks for the answer to the quarters question, columbia.
Alexandria, Va.:
It can't be that problematic for schools to stipulate what's going in these machines. Why not make the predominance of the items things like granola or nutrigrain bars, unsalted nuts or sunflower seeds, pretzels, trail mix or dried fruit? If it's there, a hungry teen will eat it, and there's at least some more nutritional value than your average candy bar or chips.
David Nakamura: Interesting idea. What I found was that some schools said they monitored what snacks went in the machines. One principal did a survey and found that when he put a V-8 drink in, it did not sell out, while the cokes and pepsi went like hotcakes. Some say they try to mandate that some of the machine is filled with granola or trail mix. But it's supply and demand. If the Snickers bars go at 3 times the rate of Granola, what is a principal who needs more computers, has to pay for band uniforms, etc... going to do?
Fairfax:
Every day for six years in a Fairfax county school, I had a soft pretzel for lunch.
(Schools weren't very vegetarian-friendly then, and pizza, french fries--eew! "Healthy foods" aren't always in abundance in the cafeteria.)
David Nakamura: Hmm. never thought about high school vegetarians. Guess it was all about the french fries.
New York, N.Y.:
I agree with turning vending machines on only after school is done and when the cafeteria closes. Isn't that the point of snack food anyway -- as a replacement of real food when you can't get any? I remember my favorite lunch food being a bowl of chinese spicy chicken noodles for only $0.80 but then again, that was the 80s.
David Nakamura: Your logic is right on. But again, the profit margin beckons. Coke and Pepsi are powerful lobbyists. One Md. legislator, Paul Pinsky, offered legislation last session that would require the machines are not turned on until after the final bell rings. It was defeated easily. The soft drink lobbyists were out in force. In fact, they argue that health-related concerns about their products are mostly myths.
New York, N.Y.:
Not a question, but a comment:
I think that it is fine for schools to have vending machines -- as long as healthy options within the machines and other parts of the cafeteria are availed to them.
The way to teach children how to eat healthily is not to take away junk foods from them, but to educate them them about their food options in life and to make the right choices for themselves. "Food censorship" doesn't teach children anything...and in the extreme, may create children who may crave junk food so much they go on binges when it is made available to them elsewhere.
David Nakamura: I love it. "Food Censorship". This is the land of free speech, religion and junk food, darn it.
Baltimore, Md.:
Let's not forget the parental role in all of this. When I was growing up, my mom never kept sodas or unhealthy snacks like chips, etc., in the house. So, my sister and I actually grew up never developing a taste for chips etc and never had the habit of snacking in between meals. It took years before I started buying chips to go with my lunch sandwiches and even then, the bag usually was tossed with more than half the chips in there. If parents are so upset about their kids eating unhealthily, perhaps they should work on stemming the problem at home.
David Nakamura: Yep, there's no ignoring the parental influence. If kids get some good advice when they're young, they can develop good habits. At least that's what some school leaders would argue. I have a good friend who still won't eat chips even when I pack it for her in her lunch box each day before she goes to work!
Pittsburgh, Pa.:
I particularly remember dry burgers and tater tots.
No vending machines were available at my Central Pa. high school in the late '80's, but I believe that they are now.
Do you really want to think about what might end up in the salad bar at a high school?
David Nakamura: Ahh, tater tots. old staples. Those are something that you just can't get anywhere else like you can in high school. as for what would be in a high school salad bar, you're quite right to raise that flag. Think: wilted.
Virginia:
Best lunch was taco salad! I graduated in 1984.
David Nakamura: Yep, as i mentioned before. taco salad was a day to look forward to in my school. We'd race to the cafeteria to be first in line. Then again, we were growing and were just hungry all the time. After school we'd go to McDonald's BEFORE soccer practice and eat a Big Mac and then go run around for two hours. outrageous when I consider it now...
David Nakamura: Thanks for all the great questions today, folks. Now, it's time for lunch. What to eat? I'm going to try to go healthy today in honor of our chat. Goodbye...
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washingtonpost.com:
That was our last question today. Thanks to everyone who joined the
discussion.
Stay tuned to Live Online:
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Guide: Got Plans? at 1 p.m. EDT
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