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From Kindergarten to
College
Sex and Peer Pressure
in Middle Schools
With Dr. Drew Pinsky
Tuesday, Aug. 28, 2001; 2:30 p.m. EDT and 5 p.m EDT
Dr. Drew Pinsky has been co-host on the popular call-in radio show "Loveline" for 17 years. The show is now syndicated to more than 70 radio stations nationwide.
Pinsky will be online Tuesday, Aug. 28 at 2:30 p.m. EDT to take your questions and comments about sex and peer pressure for teens and pre-teens.
Submit your questions and comments before or during today's discussion.
Pinsky is the medical director for the Department of Chemical Dependency Services and the former chief of service in the Department of Medicine at Las Encinas Hospital in Pasadena, Calif. He has a private clinical medicine practice and has been named clinical assistant professor of Pediatrics at Los Angeles Children's Hospital. He earned his M.D. from the University of Southern California School of Medicine. He also is the editor-in-chief of his Web site drdrew.com.
Pinsky has been a guest on "Politically Incorrect," "The View," and "Larry King Live." He is a regular contributor to USA Weekend, writing extensively on a variety of topics related to addiction, adolescent health, intimacy, and relationships. He is also a regular columnist for Jump Magazine. Drew has been profiled in Time, Newsweek, U.S. News & World Report, Premiere Magazine, and other national media. In 1996, he and co-host Adam Carolla took "Loveline" to MTV. He has co-authored a book with his "Loveline" co-host Adam Carolla entitled "The Dr. Drew and Adam Book: A Survival Guide to Life and Love."
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washingtonpost.com:
Welcome to a special discussion on preteens and the topic of sex with Dr. Drew Pinsky. Dr. Pinsky, in your experience at your clinic, your website and "Loveline" what are some basic tips you can give parents in talking about sex with preteens?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: There are several things you need to know. One is that there is a window of opportunity between the ages of 8 and 12, which if you miss, you will lose them permanently to their peers and ambient culture. Secondly, what you tell them during that window, is not important. What is important is that you establish an open dialogue. They don't need a plumbing lesson, they need a place to go to get their questions answered.
I was once at a large gathering with parents and students where the students asked on one side of a blackboard and the parents at another, "the right time to ask kids about sex is ...." The parents all answered with specific ages, the kids answers were all the same which was "when I ask." Kids just need a connected dialogue. You need them to be able to make healthy questions. The only way you are going to have an impact on them is with dialogue.
Silver Spring, Md.:
Dr. Drew,
I just turned 17 and a lot of my friends have already had their first visits to the gynecologist. But, how can I put this delicately, I am inexperienced. Do I still have to go even if I'm not sexually active? At what age should a girl start going?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: At the age of 17 and 18 is when you need to start this kind of healthcare maintenance. I believe it is a good idea that a kid have a good relationship with their health care provider. Most of young people don't know that they have a right to confidential health care. They are afraid that someone will find out what they tell their doctor, which will never happen.
Washington, D.C.:
My older brother had sex for the first time when he was in 8th grade (with an "older" 10th grade girl). I didn't even have my first kiss until the summer between my junior and senior year in high school. We were just a grade apart, had many friends in common and, obviously, came from the same family. So how is it that he was interested in sex so much earlier than me?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: Some of this may be the genetic differences between the two of you. His puberty may have been earlier and his biological drives may have been higher. People's psychological development affects your sexual desire as well and although you are just one year apart in the same family, your experiences have been very different.
Arlington, Va.:
What is the best way to approach talking about sex with my 13-year-old?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: Keep open ended questions. Create opportunities for dialogue, don't sit down to have "talk." It's too overwhelming and too intense. Keep the dialogue going on their terms.
Falls Church, Va.:
Dr Drew,
While I enjoy listening to loveline, I worry that a 15 yr. old listening to the show would get the impression that it is common to have sex at 15. After all, the ones not having sex presumably are less likely to have sex problems, thus less likely to call in. So while you end up with an entertaining group who calls your show, they are not very representive of national averages. I realize you by no means advocate such behavior but how do you reconcile the "perception creating reality" issue?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: First of all, the statistics suggest that most are in fact having sex at 15 or around that age. And experience with teens teaches us that the best way to change their behavior is by exposing them to the negative consequences of their peers' actions. That's what we are trying to do here.
Dr. Drew Pinsky: To say that "merely discussing young people's activities causes them to engage in those activities." If you follow that logic, we should haven't any discussion on alcohol or drug use, accidents, thrill behaviors (thrill seeking: speeding, riding a motorcycle) or poor nutrition.
Annapolis, Md.:
Hi Dr. Drew
I just wanted to say that I have been a fan of your and lovelines for many years now. I have to submit early as I may be in a meeting during your talk, unfortunately. Recently, however, I have been less than satisfied with the quality of the answers that have been given. I understand that you are syndicated and that you have gotten much more popular, but I have been disappointed, especially as you are speaking to people who are generally kids and who are looking to you all for legitimate help and are taking what you say very seriously. Basically, I feel that Adam has been taking the show much less seriously than it needs to be taken. Joking about drug use and alcohol use and then turning around and admonishing kids to not do it doesn't work. The show is starting to sound more like Don and Mike than Dr. Drew and Adam. In addition, there have been a number of instances where people have called for legitimate medical advice and, rather than allow you to speak, as you are the doctor, he answers the question, generally making a big joke out of it. It is to the point where it is a show I try to ensure that my kids (14 and 15) are not exposed to. In the past, I would have let them listen at this age as a way to start a discusion about what can happen when bad decisions are made.
In addition, the continual insistence that everything can be blamed on a bad parent, or a bad uncle, or something else along those lines does not allow kids to see the importance of taking responsibility for themselves. It seems as though you are basically telling them that bc of anything bad that has happened in the past, they are going to be screw-ups and there isn't much that they can do. Which is in no way true.
I am also curious as to why you do not focus on counseling as an option more often, as many of the people who call you could benefit greatly from it, whether it is a free service, from a church or other similar organization, or from a paid professional.
I used to really respect the way you all spoke to kids and to other troubled people and I am very disappointed in the tone you have taken recently.
Thank you for taking the time to listen to me. I hope that perhaps a happy medium can be found that works back towards the respect you all used to show, even if you didn't feel that way, to your listeners. I would love to be able to listen and laugh and agree again rather than be upset at the turn the show has taken.
I also wanted to say that you had one show a few months ago with a band, I can't remember which, and one of the members discussed his past - which involved early marriage, drugs etc and how counseling had helped and brought him back around and he was living a normal life again. It was a fantastic show. Just wanted to pass that compliment along. That is the type of role model that troubled kids need. Someone who has been through it and come out on top.
Thanks for having this discussion today and I am sorry if this came across as to harsh, but I felt it needed to be said.
Dr. Drew Pinsky: I appreciate your feedback, if you have specific suggestions, please email them to LoveLine.
Washington, D.C.:
What are teen pregnancy rates looking like these days? Has anyone done any studies to compare today's permissive attitudes of safe sex with yesterday's attitude of abstinence? If so, are things better or worse?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: Things got a lot worse during the age of permissiveness. The pregnancy rates are dropping steadily. They are now getting a lot better. Unfortunately, not because of a significant change in behavior, rather it appears to be due to the long-acting contraceptives like Depo-provera, we still have one of the lowest age of onset of sexually intercourse of any industrialized country.
Washington, D.C.:
Could you give some examples of how to "create opportunities" for dialog? I've found that open-ended questions for my 13-year old son don't elicit much response.
Dr. Drew Pinsky: You may have missed that 8 to 12 window. If that is the case, try watching a t.v. show together which could evoke some discussion or bring in a peer of your 13-year-old who may be dealing with some issues that the kid may feel comfortable discussing with you; thereby, getting your child to overhear your feelings about these things.
Arlington, Va.:
Isn't a downside of people being able to come out as gay in junior high that they have no idea what they are in for, in terms of diseases? At least if they did it after college, they would know better, right?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: I believe there is a downside but I don't think this is it. People aren't declaring anything about their identity in junior high school usually. You are usually trying to figure out if you are a human being or not! And to open yourself to derision before you have a clear sense of self and a supportive network of peers, I think is a mistake.
Arlington, Va.:
What is the average age for first time sexual intercourse?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: In this country it is about 15 1/2 and in Holland it is about 17.4 --imagine that. I think it's because they have intact families and we don't, even though they have a more sexually permissive society.
Washington, D.C.:
For those of us with children who are near or in the 8 to 12 window, what would you suggest? I've got a boy who is 7 and girl who is 9, and no clue where to start.
Dr. Drew Pinsky: Usually it is easier to talk to the girls. I would just ask the simple question, "do you ever wonder what sex is," what do they think it is and what they would like to know. If she doesn't want to know anything, don't push. Try again in six months.
washingtonpost.com:
Dr. Drew had to go to an appointment. He will return to answer your questions at 5 p.m. EDT today.
The District:
I'm not a doctor, and I don't know the psychology of the "8- to 12-yr-old window," but I can say from experience that any talk is better than no talk at all. My parents just decided to let the Human Sexuality classes at school do all the work, and now they don't understand why I'm a 24-yr-old virgin with a crappy love life.
Love the show, Drew.
Dr. Drew Pinsky: Sometimes sex ed classes can do more harm than good. 85% of young people questioned will say that they want the information from their parents. I agree with you that it is more the talking than the content that is so important. We need that supportive connection with our family in order to be effective in our inner personal lives.
Maryland:
The IWF released a report about hooking up. Is that common now in high school?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: Hooking up is more a term I hear about from college aged people. Though it does happen in high school, it is not as prevalent.
Laurel, Md.:
Dr. Pinsky,
My 13 year old son has availed himself of me and his father's past experiences with drugs and alcohol (I experimented in college and regretted it; his father didn't drink or experimented with drugs). However, he seems very hesitant to talk about sex. I know he understands the "plumbing" and all the practical information, but he is so shy about it. Should I be concerned?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: No. It is difficult for kids to talk to their parents about this. Just keep giving him opportunities. Shyness has no special implication.
Washington, D.C.:
Is there a difference in average age of first sexual intercourse between rural and urban areas in the US? Or elsewhere?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: You know, I don't have that data at my fingertips. If my memory serves me, there is surprisingly little difference in the data I've seen. And I have not seen global statistics on this one.
Arlington, Va.:
Hi there. I'm 30. My parents never talked to me about sex and I ended up getting pregnant and having an abortion at 17. Just wanted to weigh in. I think -- from first hand experience -- that teens are going to have sex. When I do have children of my own, I will understand that, and take steps to make sure they are responsible and protect themselves.
Dr. Drew Pinsky: Good. In addition to protecting themselves, you want to arm kids with healthy self-esteem and good negotiating skills. One of the most important things they need to learn is how to say no if that's what they feel.
Alexandria, Va.:
Dr. Drew, I just had to say that I listen to Loveline every chance I get. I think the show is wonderful. Also, even though you can't help people until they're ready to help themselves, you always point them in the right direction while never talking down to them. I hope you never get tired of it. I'm sure you help a lot of people.
Dr. Drew Pinsky: You know, I don't think I will get tired of it. Even I'm amazed after 15 years, I look forward to every night.
Arlington, Va.:
I really loved you on "Loveline" any chance you'll be back on MTV or doing something similar? Were you really as exasperated with Adam Corolla as you seemed?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: Yes Adam is an a-hole. I will be doing a single episode of a show called "Flipped" on MTV this fall. And because I have a great passion for young people, I hope I find my way back to people that addresses your concerns. I know they are still looking for a home for the Loveline tv show.
Rockville, Md.:
Is a condom still effective against STDs if you use it a second time after already using it once already and taken it off?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: No. Condoms have to be used properly to be effective. If you take it off and put it back on, it will slip off.
Derwood, Md.:
I have often listened to Loveline and I've always wanted to ask, "What about the 'Love'?" Social behavior seems to be degraded into just shopping for partners or bargaining over services to be rendered or access rights to body parts. The people are exclusively interested in the services themselves rather than intimacy, or even cultivating friendships. It's as if prostitution is already legalized, in a way.
In the media, plastic surgery and vulgarity are perfectly acceptable substitutes for talent (e.g. B. Spears, P. Andersen), like we're all nothing else but a collection of fleeting carnal appetites without any real human consciousness to speak of.
When you counsel callers or others steeped in this reptilian perspective, what effect do you realistically hope to have?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: I very much share your concerns. I know from experience that the only way to shape behavior is by example and what I would call "case study." I hope that people will learn the consequence of precisely what you are describing by hearing the pain and emptiness that so many people suffer as a result. In fact, I am currently writing a book about attachments and their lack of priority in our society.
Baltimore, Md.:
Love to listen to Love Line when I get the chance. You are the perfect complement to Adam's zaniness. How did you and Adam get started working together on the show?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: I've been doing radio in LA since 1983. The previous partners were even wilder than Adam. We were looking someone to do the television show and I was aware of Adam's work in LA radio and had a sense that he had what it took to do that job. How wrong I was.
Bethesda, Md.:
Dr. Drew,
I've been dating a woman for for two years and we are very much in love. She moved 1000 miles two months ago to live with me. She has started a new, but similar job, misses her old home and friends (though I pay to have her fly back every few weeks). The problem is this: we have sex only every two weeks or so--which is less than when we lived 1000 miles apart! This is inadequate physically and emotionally for me, but she doesn't seem to care. We have talked about this and she says she just feels too stressed by all the changes for sex. Is this frequency normal, or is there something I am missing here? HELP!
Dr. Drew Pinsky: There is something wrong and I would need more information and probably need to talk to her.
Chicago, Ill.:
Drew-
I am an investment banker and I work LONG hours. I used to listen to your show here in Chicago from 10 p.m.-12 a.m. and then listen to it again on the internet from 12 a.m. - 2 a.m. from the west cost, but it seems I can no longer get an internet feed of the show. Do you know of any stations that broadcast your show over the internet?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: I think KNRQ in Portland does. However, CBS is extremely proprietary about this show and I don't know if anyone is still broadcasting the show online.
Chicago, Ill.:
Dr. Drew-
What effects does an age difference have between two people in a relationship? What problems might we experience say if it is five years difference in age? Such as a 23 year old male and an 18 year old female?
Thanks,
John
Dr. Drew Pinsky: Five years is entirely different at different stages of life. The difference between a 13 year old and 18 year old is profound. The difference between an 18 year old and 23 year old is substantial; someone still in college and someone out in the workforce. The difference between 23 and 28 is nill. The concern I would have in the 18 and 23 gap is the extraordinary differences in expectation and needs from a relationship.
Washington, D.C.:
After all these years, do you ever hear questions or problems you've never come across before?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: Every once in a while, I can't think of any offhand. But it's pretty rare and we know it and comment on it if we hadn't heard it before.
smc md:
okay, we live in a sexually-rampant society. i'm a 19 year old virgin who's been in a relationship for a year. i want to stay a virgin until i'm married. what do you think are the complications/advantages of not having sex until one or both parties are married?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: The downside is you're making a lifelong commitment without having fully experienced one another. Though I've talked to many couples who feel that that creates a specialness that sustains and nourishes the relationship. The upside is that the guys that stick around do so because they are really into you and are willing to commit without the sex.
Re: Downside of coming out:
Gee, don't you think it might have been something to say to this person that straight people have just as high a likelihood for STDs? Isn't it societal opinions like this one that make it so hard for people to come out in the first place?
Dr. Drew Pinsky: Coming out does not equate with becoming sexually active. So my point is that the disease issue doesn't enter into my concern. But I would warn you to look at the statistics of risk factors accurately when you appoint about these issues. Because we are currently in a backlash where people are ignoring the risks, especially being gay, because of being inaccurately portrayed or overstated.
Dr. Drew Pinsky:
Thank you for your support and for allowing me to be of service. If you have more questions, consult the drdrew Web site.
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