Jacqueline L. Salmon (The Post)

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Families... And So On
With Jacqueline L. Salmon
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, Feb. 20, 2001; Noon EST
This week: Signing up for Summer Camps with Nancy Soschin
LIVE Right Now!

Families...and So On, hosted by Washington Post families reporter Jacqueline L. Salmon, is a free-ranging and freewheeling look at the American family. This is the place to talk about the burning issues facing the 21st century family, such as whether the world really needs diaper-wipe heaters. Join Jacqui to share tips on surviving family life.

Salmon's guest is Nancy Soschin, co-owner of Summer Solutions, a camp-consulting firm.

Soschin has been helping parents find the right summer program for their children since 1984. As a co-owner of Summer Solutions: Advisors on Camps and Trips, she has developed a national reputation for her expertise in the area of summer programming. As a former camper, counselor and parent of three grown children, Soschin understands the value of camping for children. She also is a member of the American Camping Association, and keeps up with the latest information, trends and concerns. Each summer she tours summer programs to develop first-hand knowledge of the programs she represents. She has lectured extensively, at national conventions of the American Camping Association, at Georgetown University, Suburban Hospital, and local PTAs on the value of camping.

Submit your questions in advance or during the hour.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

Jacqui Salmon: Hi, folks and welcome. For those unfamiliar with the rhythms of life with kids, February is, indeed, Summer Camp Month. If you wait until April or May to start signing your kids up for camps, you're probably too late. But choosing a camp for your child months in advance can be a little unnerving! What if your kid hates it? What if YOU hate it? What if the camp folds? (A rarity, but it does happen)What if it promises a lot more than it delivers? Here to answer all your questions is the Summer Camp Lady herself, Nancy, to give us the inside scoop. She deals mostly with overnight camps, but throw us questions about day camps, and we'll endeavor to help you out. Also, feel free to send in questions/comments on other topics as well. As in previous weeks, I'll get to them after my guest has departed.

Jacqui Salmon: Hi, Nancy. You've been involved in the summer camp field for years. I know from our previous conversations that you consider the summer-camp experience as an almost essential part of childhood for kids these days. It's not just a summer day-care arrangement or a place to send kids to give parents a couple of weeks' break during the summer. Why is that?

Nancy Soschin: Yes. Summer overnight camps teach children independence, how to learn to live without mom and dad. They teach them how to live with others, and they enable them to form new friendships, hopefully those that will last a lifetime.

And summer camps give children an opportunity to do things that they ordinarily couldn't do at home, whether it's sailing or mountain-climbing and to do it in a totally new environment.

And children who are given the opportunity for overnight camp usually adjust better to college and dorm life because they are used to living with others and being away from home.

Jacqui Salmon: Let me ask you a question about overnight camp from my life that I know a lot of parents and kids will identify with. And that's about homesickness. My 11-year-old daughter went to a one-week camp last year. She had great difficulty leaving (she took a bus there, and cried all the way to the camp!). She was terribly homesick for the first 24 hours, but ended up having a pretty good time and came back very happy. She's thinking about going to another camp this year, but is really afraid of going through that dreadful first 24 hours again. Should I encourage her to go?

Jacqui Salmon: ..sorry about that guys. I sent out the question without Nancy's answers. Here 'tis.

Nancy Soschin: Absolutely! It's only 24 hours of homesickness and your daughter probably won't experience it the second time.

A good camp knows how to handle homesickness. They use many methods to deal with it. They keep children busy, they give them extra attention, and they encourage them to participate in as much as possible.

It usually passes very, very quickly. Parents should encourage homesick children to hang in there and not offer to take them home and shouldn't be quick to phone them. Often contact from the parent makes the situation worse.

Homesickness is normal. But it's usually brief.

Cedar Rapids, Iowa: I know that the parent is the best judge of whether a child is ready for overnight camp. However, staying over night at a friend's house is different from being away from home for a week or more.

Can you give any examples of what to look for in your child or what signs there may be which can help a parent know if the child is ready?

Also, where can we look to determine the reputation of a camp. I know to ask friends? But what if your friends have not had their children experience such a camp? Where can a parent go to find out about the reputation of a camp?

Nancy Soschin: First, let's talk about readiness. Any child who can easily separate from a parent and can spend the night at a grandparent's or a friend's is ready for camp. Most children will show a boredom for day camps, and they may express an interest in going away.

You can check on a camp in several ways. The American Camping Association is a national organization that gives camp accreditation. A camp must pass hundreds of health and safety issues criteria every three years in an inspection conducted by a group of three certified camp inspectors who visit the camp while it's in session.

Another place to check on a camp would be the state's Board of Health. If there have been any problems in the camp, the board will know about it.

Another way is to use a camp consultant. A camp consultant, like myself, spends summers inspecting camps while they are in session so they can evaluate the staff, the ambience of the camp, the type of campers attending the camp and even the food that's served. And I always tell my clients to get a reference from the camp and call the reference.

Green Bay, Wis.: I know of a family where the mother is a nurse and volunteers at a camp each summer her children attend, thereby being close to the kids.

First, is it possible for parents to sign up or volunteer at camps doing various jobs?

Second, if this is possible, how can we find out about who to contact and when are these decisions made?

Nancy Soschin: Yes, absolutely. Not only can you volunteer, but you can get paid. Camps are always looking for qualified staff, particularly if you are a teacher or a nurse. Camps will pay you and/or compensate you by giving your children free tuition.

One way to find a camp to do that is to research a camp that you would like your own children to attend and then apply. Another way to find a camp is through a staff fair or camp fair.

(We happen to be having one this weekend in the Washington D.C. area. For anyone in this area, it's on Saturday and Sunday. It's a the Westpark Hotel in Tyson's Corner and at the Bethesda Marriott on Pook's Hill Rd. Both fairs are noon-4 p.m. Admission is free. More than 50 camps will be exhibiting and will accept applications for staff and campers.)

Jacqui Salmon: But is it a good idea for parents to work in the same summer camp with their children? Does this take away from the summer-camp experience for kids?

Nancy Soschin: It might affect some children, who wouldn't like it. But most children are so occupied with their activities that they won't even know their parents are there.

Tampa, Fla.: Can you recommend a good camp in Florida for kids aged 10 who are not particularly sports oriented? I am looking for a general camp which offers boating, swimming, hiking, etc.

Nancy Soschin: I don't want to recommend specific camps over the Internet. However, our consultants at Summer Solutions work one-on-one with families. We interview them for what they're looking for, their children's interests are and then will send the family brochures and video tapes on camps that will meet their needs.

Our service is free to the families. Call our 800 number. 800-729-7090 any time and one of our agents will assist you.

Jacqui Salmon: Tell us how you operate, Nancy. You get paid by the camps, isn't that right? Does that method influence the camps that you recommend to families?

Nancy Soschin: Yes, we are paid by the camps. However, we DO represent a very wide variety of camps-from YMCA and church-type camps to private camps for all ages. We make our recommendations by personally evaluating every camp we represent by on-site visits and through feedback from the parents of campers we have previously placed at the camp.

Alexandria, Va.: Any thoughts on how to find a summer camp for kids with special needs...e.g. high functioning autism? They need a little more one-on-one attention but can often otherwise function quite well.

Nancy Soschin: There are camps that do deal with these types of children. They are called 'special needs camps.' They run the gamut from children with ADHD, learning disabilities, autism and other disabilities.

The staffs are usually comprised of professionals in education and psychology. Staff-camper ratios are usually higher at these camps. And all staff members are trained to deal with these children to make every camper have a successful and happy summer.

You can call a camp consultant or attend a camp fair in your area. Some school systems also have their own special-needs camp fairs. So check with your school system.

Summit, N.J.: I just moved here from California and am shocked to find that parents send their kids away to summer camp for six to eight weeks at a time! Is that healthy? My children are too young yet. But even when they're old enough, I can't imagine shipping them off for that long.

Nancy Soschin: Years ago, all camps ran for a full season, which was eight weeks. They usually had a visiting day halfway through the season. A full-season program enables a child to really learn new things and to develop the friendships that will last a lifetime.

The summer usually is 12 weeks long. So a full season camp still gives families time to visit relatives or to have a family vacation before school starts.

Full-season camps also enable working parents to know that their children are being supervised and constructively occupied for 24 hours a day, seven days a week in a safe and healthy environment.

Gaithersburg, Md.: Do you know how to apply for CIT in summer camp? Do they get pay or they just get the credits for their school? Who should I contact?

Nancy Soschin: For those who don't know, a CIT is a counsellor in training.

Every camp runs its CIT program differently. There really isn't any rule of thumb. Some camps choose their CITs, who are usually 16 or 17 years old, from among their oldest campers. The CITs can either pay full fare, half-price or work for nothing. They are seldom paid.

Some camps, however, accept new campers as CITs. Again, find them by contacting a camp consultant or attending a camp fair.

Overnight camps also advertise in parenting publications and local newspapers. The Washington Post has a camp section in its Sunday magazine, starting in January.

Ashburn, Va.: Several comments as a former summer camper (no kids yet)

1. Find out if the camp lets kids choose amoung activities for the day or do they stay with their bunk mates? If the latter, make sure your kid has friends in the bunk before you sign them up!

2. Summer camp is great for kids of divorced parents with joint custody. Imagine, everything you need in one place! Not moving around for a couple of weeks. It was bliss for me.

3. If the camp specializes in something, really ask yourself if you're sending your kid because YOU want them to be interested in this specialty.

Nancy Soschin: These are all good points. You sound like an expert!

Jacqui Salmon: Nancy, let's talk some more about camp programming.

Nancy Soschin: I usually feel that it's important for first-time and younger campers to have a "cabin-scheduled" program. That means campers travel as a cabin to activities that are scheduled for them as a group.

However, some choice in programming is always good. It allows the camper to choose an activity that they truly enjoy and gives them extra time in that activity.

For older campers (or younger, experienced campers), an individualized program might be better. In this type of program, each individual camper makes his/her own schedule from a variety of offered activities. This way, the camper gets to do only the activities that they enjoy. If they don't like sports, they can spend most of the time on the waterfront or in crafts.

Washington, D.C.: You have not mentioned Boy Scouts camps. I had a great time at Goshen Scout Camps in Virginia when I was young.

Nancy Soschin: The Boy Scouts are one of many agencies that sponsor their own camps. Other agencies would be Girl Scouts, the Salvation Army, 4-H Clubs and local churches.

To find out about these camps, contact those organizations.

Washington, D.C.: I volunteer with a tutoring program that works with low-income and homeless children in DC. Do you know of any camps that offer scholarships/subsidized programs, especially day programs in the city?

Nancy Soschin: Actually, many camps (both agency-supported and private) offer "camperships." YMCA camps are among these groups. YMCAs have both day and overnight camps.

There are also private camps that will give scholarships to needy children. You simply apply to the camp.

Vienna, Va.: I'd really like my 12-year-old to go to camp, but she really doesn't want to go. How could I ease her into it? I really think she would have a good time, but I don't want to force her to go! Is it possible to visit the camps?

Nancy Soschin: Absolutely. Many camps hold open houses in the spring. You could visit the camp and see the facilities so your child is familiar with them when he/she goes.

Many parents investigate a year and a half in advance of sending their child to camp! During the spring, they make a list of camps they'd like to visit with their child during the summer. That way, their child can see a camp in full swing. This is one way to help a reluctant camper.

Another way, especially with older first-time campers like your 12-year-old, is to select a camp that offers an activity that he/she is particularly interested in. If your child is a potential thesbian, they might be thrilled to be able to go to a performing-arts camp. If they always wanted to water ski, there are even camps that do just that.

Jacqui Salmon: Do you think such ultra-specialized camps are good for kids?

Nancy Soschin: Yes, if the child has an intense interest in a particular sport or activity and wants to pursue that activity or become more proficient. It gives them a great opportunity to do so.

I don't recommend it for younger children and first-time campers.

Former Camper: As someone who spent a number of years as both a camper and a counselor (all for the same camp in the Poconos), I definitely recommend it. I loved getting away from NJ for the summer and I know that my parents appreciated the rest and relaxation as well.

A few observations though...If you are thinking of sending your kids to camp, sometimes it's important that they know you aren't "sending them away" to get away from them. Some kids definitely felt that.

Also, make sure to do your research. Some camps send out people with slide shows and info packets but make sure to supplement that with non-biased info. Also ask about their counselors and the screening process to hire them.

Finally, if you can, try and take a look at the place yourself. A picture from 30 years ago might paint the place in a more favorable light.

Thanks!

Nancy Soschin: Very good points. Thanks for the input.

If you don't mind a plug, it always helps to consult with a camp consultant. It will help you avoid the 30-year-old pictures and give you an unbiased opinion!

Jacqui Salmon: Let's talk money. How much do camps cost?

Nancy Soschin: There's a wide variety of tuitions! Any camp supported by an agency will be less money than a private camp. To give you an example, the YMCA camps usually run around $1,000 for a two-week session. A full-season, private camp can run $7,000.

There are camps in every price range in between.

Jacqui Salmon: $7,000. Wow.

Jacqui Salmon: Once parents get past the price, what's the most important thing that parents need to look for in a camp?

Nancy Soschin: The people. This starts with the camp owner/director and goes right down to the youngest camper.

The counselors in your child's cabin can make or break your child's summer.

When looking at a camp, you should ask how the camp director chooses his staff and where the staff comes from. I feel the best combination of staff is from past campers and some foreign counselors as well. It's always good to have older heads of departments and directors, who may be teachers during the school year. But it's also good to have wonderful college-age role models living with your child.

A camp owner usually travels to college campuses throughout the country looking for qualified applicants. Camp owners also use camp placement agencies to find staff from overseas. The Internet has also been very helpful in locating qualified staff.

A good counselor should not just be an expert in their field (such as soccer). They also need to be a warm, loving, caring people who love children.

Jacqui Salmon: How about the food?

Nancy Soschin: Most camps can accommodate special diets. Vegetarianism is especially popular now, especially among teenagers. There are camps that are kosher. There are even camps that can deal with severe allergies, such as peanut allergies.

Most camps offer alternatives to the main meal, such as salad bars and sandwiches, if the child doesn't like what's being served.

But most camps try to serve kid-friendly food.

And speaking of food....there are camps that deal with overweight children, called 'weight-loss' camps or 'fitness' camps. These camps will not only help your child lose weight, but teach them nutrition and cooking, so that it will carry over into the school year.

Jacqui Salmon: I have fond memories of the green fried eggs at my Girl Scout camp...yum

Jacqui Salmon: How about visiting your child? Thumbs up or thumbs down?

Nancy Soschin: If a camp offers a visiting day, you should absolutely go. But visiting days are usually held only at camps that are full season or four or six weeks. In most cases, short-term camps (two- to four-week sessions) do NOT allow visiting.

These camps also usually don't allow phone calls. Even the happiest, most well-adjusted camper (and parent) might get quivers when they hear their loved one's voice on the phone. Visiting can be disruptive to the camp schedule.

The exception is usually at performing arts camps where parents are invited to attend performances by their children.

Long Island: For Nancy: Do you have children? Did you send them to summer camp? At that time how did you choose a camp? How old are your children now and what are they doing? What was the experience like for them?

Nancy Soschin: Yes, I have three sons. All three attended different camps because of their different interests. They went to camps in New England for a full season, and they loved every minute of it!

I found the camps just the way any mother would-- consulting with people and visiting the camps. My children are now 28, 24 and 18. And they regard their camp experiences as the best ones of their lives.

Two of the boys even went on teenage programs after they were too old to be campers and did mountain climbing and other adventures in the Pacific Northwest.

My partner's son loved camp so much that he stayed and became a counselor for several years into college.

Arlington, Va.: As a former counselor, I have one suggestion for parents--find out how many counselors return for a second season. A very low rate, such as 20%-30% many indicate a poorly run camp. Look for 50% or higher. A camp with 70% or higher is really doing something right. Also, find out the percentage of foreign counselors. After working in several camps, I found that the poorly run camps always had to rely heavily on foreign counselors, because word got out among the American counselors. This is not a slam against foreign counselors--they simply do not have a choice in camps, unlike American counselors.

Nancy Soschin: Some of your points are very well-taken. But parents have to realize that a college students counselor's life is very short-lived. After they graduate from college, they go on to real jobs and can no longer spend their summers at camp. So it is NOT unusual for a counselor to only return to work at a camp for one or two years.

Foreign counselors can be excellent because they bring with them an expertise that sometimes is not available in American counselors. They also bring fresh, new attitudes and cultures into the camps.

So a nice mix of foreign and American counselors is always preferable.

Reading, Penn.: Comment as a former camper, former camp staffer, and now Scout leader taking kids to camp:

If you as a parent make the decision to send your kids to camp, please don't make other plans for them in the middle of the week/season. It's amazing how many kids have to leave because of sports tournaments, show tickets, grandma's birthday, etc. By missing one-two days in a one week schedule, they're missing so much that the youth might as well not be there.

You and your kids need to make the decision together and prioritize that decision. There's 51 weeks for all the other stuff; keep at least one to concentrate on camp.

Nancy Soschin: Exactly right. Camp must be a priority.

Jacqui Salmon: Thanks, Nancy. You didn't convince me to send my daughter to eight weeks (eight weeks!!!) of camp, but I'm certainly going to try to push her out the door for a week of overnight camp this summer. Below, I've posted some of your other comments/reminiscences about summer camps. Keep 'em coming, and I'll get them up over the next couple of hours.

Silver Spring, Md.: When I was a child, we went to sleep over camps to avoid the polio epidemics in cities. Despite the claims that camp enables children to learn new skills, I believe that it is being used for childcare while both parents work. When is there downtime for young people?
Kids need to learn how to be self-motivated.

Oh re: opportunities for disadvantaged young people -- Bob Levey of The Washington Post and others run major campaigns for camp scholarships so they do exist.

Jacqui Salmon: Thanks for the reminder on Bob Levey's fine camp-scholarship campaign. You can find Bob's column in our Style section, opposite the first page of the comics.

Annapolis, Md.: From another former camper, CIT and Counselor

1. I definitely agree with the divorce thing - it really helped me to deal with the situation - my summer time became my summer time - not a battle between my parents for time with me.

2. Send your children!!! Even if you think they are not ready/the type/too attached/too independent/etc. etc., they will probably surprise you and themselves. For most children who go, the worst homesickness comes at the end of camp, not at the beginning!!

3. A full summer program is not too long - but allow them to do a shorter program their first year, so they can decide for themselves.

4. Some kids like to stay at one camp - some like to change camps - let them see the options. I stayed at my camp for 7 summers and loved it - my sister went to a different camp each summer and loved them all. She chose specialty camps based on her interests at the time. My camp was an all-around camp and I was able to make the same, interest-based choices within one camp.

5. Don't use summer camp for your children's ritalin vacation, It is not fair to your child, the other children, or the counselors. Do their ritalin vacation before or after camp when they are at home, in a place like home - an unchanging environment.

6. Let them go - you may be homesick for them, but don't try to make them feel like they should be homesick for you. Some kids just aren't. It says nothing about you other than you have raised them to be strong and independent people.

Jacqui Salmon: Thanks for the comments! Good point about the 'ritalin vacation.' In fact, I didn't know that kids needed a 'Ritalin vacation.' Is that a common part of the treatment regimen?

Old Town, Alexandria: This question is more for Ms. Salmon-

Does the Post do any kind of comprehensive Camp guide for the area? Or are we better off going to one of these "camp shows"?

Jacqui Salmon: Good question. As Nancy pointed out, our Sunday magazine has a special camp section each week starting in January. (I, ahem, did not know that). Local family publications, such as Families and Washington Parent, also have special summer camp sections in their January and February issues.

About the "camp fairs," I've been to several, and I believe that most parents would find them fairly helpful. They're free and there is a wide variety of camps there. Often, the camp owners run the booths, so you can talk personally to the folks who run the show. What have you got to lose? It beats writing away for a bunch of brochures and trying to decide your child's summer that way.

Some good Web sites: www.ACAcamps.org and summersolutions.com (Nancy's company's Web site).

Another Washington-area summer-camp consulting firms: Student Summers at campadvice.com and Tips on Trips and Camps at tipstripscamps.com

Alexandria, Va.: Do you know of any local day-type camps for kids interested in history? My 12-year old son is very interested in local/regional history. Thank you!

Jacqui Salmon: Nancy's not familiar w/ the local day-camp scene, but I'm fairly familiar with it.

My suggestion is to contact your local Parks and Recreation department. Also, since you're close to Fairfax, call its Parks and Rec Dept. Either agency may have some kind of local-history summer camp going. I don't know the Alexandria Park and Rec Dept. phone number.

Fairfax's phone number is 703-222-4664. It offers a mind-boggling number of summer camps, and you don't have to be a Fairfax County resident to attend.

Also, try the local historical societies, as well as Mount Vernon. I'm sure you can find something.

Old Town Alexandria: What do you think of day camps for younger kids?

Jacqui Salmon: Again, Nancy's not a day-camp expert, but I believe day camps are a good idea IF there is sufficient supervision and IF your child is enthusiastic about the program.

As the program director what the teacher-to-student ratio is or will be. And if your child has to be in the extended-day part of the program, ask if there are any activities planned. Some summer camps plan bunches of activities for the day, but then tack on a couple of hours of extended day for the children of working parents and don't really offer anything for the kids to do.

Ashburn again: I went to two summer camps, one I disliked, one I loved. The one I loved, I went to for 4 years for increasingly long periods. No stress, no parents fighting, no half-a-week at each parent's home.

It was the most stress-free period of my life. The camp was very into creativity and free-time as well.

I don't care if my parents sent me there to get me out of their hair for the summer, the biggest benefit was not having them in mine!!!

Jacqui Salmon: Thanks for the comments. There's a lot to be said for spending a little quality time...away from parents!

SS, MD: So when does day-camp begin in a child's life? Kindergarten? Are there pre-schools? Third grade?

Jacqui Salmon: You can start day camp at the age of 2 if you want! Check this month's issue of Families and/or Washington Parent. You can usually pick them up in local libraries, some doctor's offices, a few bookstores. Both have separate advertising sections on summer camps (day and overnight). YOu'll be amazed at the variety.

Also, and I should have mentioned this before, local jurisdictions also hold 'camp fairs' that feature some day camps. Again, they'll advertise in the local publications. I went to a camp fair sponsored by Arlington a couple of years ago, and it was very good. Call your local Park and Rec. Dept. Park and Rec Departments usually run the summer camp programs in their jurisdictions.

Wash. DC: As a former camp counselor, I found that ritalin vaction was very common and very disruptive for all parties involved - your child will enjoy their camp experience much more if they feel they are operating on an even keel.

Another tip for parents looking for a good camp is to see what the return rate is for the campers - my sister and I both went to camp in the mountains in Maryland for years and still maintain friendships with the girls we met there (they same for our mother, who is still going to camp reunions 40 years after she first started going to camp!)

Jacqui Salmon: Return rate for campers...a very good point. Thanks for the comments.

Arlington, VA: I am a 32 year old woman awaiting the birth of my first child. My husband and I will definitely be sending our children to camp one day. I went to an all girls camp in the North Carolina mountains every summer, for 6 weeks, from the age of 9 until I was 16. I loved it. My parents sent my brother to the "brother" camp. It was the best experience. I traveled to Europe twice while still in highschool and was never afraid or homesick. I was never homesick in college. Camp gave me self-confidence and the ability to make friends quickly. I still run into friends who went there, other people who went there, or know of it. It is amazing. Being away from my parents every summer helped me become a well-rounded person. I think it also allowed my parents to recapture some of the joys of marriage, and that is important in and of itself. Sleep away summer camp is a great opportunity for many families. Many of my favorite childhood memories are from those summers.

Jacqui Salmon: Wow. You've almost convinced me that my "homebody" 11-year-old should go to a full-season camp! Thanks for writing in, and thanks for sharing your wonderful memories.

Jacqui Salmon: Keep the comments and memories coming, folks, but before I forget, let me remind you that "Families..and so on" returns to its regularly scheduled time slot next week...Mondays at noon. We'll tackle the topic of teen drivers. It's been a hot topic in the Washington area recently. Jurisdictions are cracking down on the little darlin's and trying to keep them from getting behind the wheel before they're ready. We'll talk with Phil Berardelli, author of "Safe Young Drivers: A Guide for Parents and Teens" about--to put it bluntly--how to keep our kids from killing themselves on the roads. Join in!

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