Attacks on U.S. Soil:
Osama bin Laden
With Martin Smith
Documentary Producer, "Hunting bin Laden"
Monday, Sept. 17, 2001; 12:30 p.m. EDT

Last Tuesday morning, Sept. 11, in a horrific series of events, hijacked planes hit and destroyed the twin towers of the World Trade Center and crashed into a section of the Pentagon. Thousands are presumed dead or injured as emergency services and relief workers continue to make sense of the chaotic scenes.

Vice President Cheney, Secretary of State Colin Powell and others have named exiled Saudi dissident and alleged terrorist Osama bin Laden, now believed to be in Afghanistan, as the prime suspect behind Tuesday's attacks.

Martin Smith produced, directed and co-wrote "Hunting bin Laden," for PBS's "Frontline." The in-depth look at bin Laden was rebroadcast on Thursday, Sept. 13 on PBS. Smith was online Monday, Sept. 17, to talk about the documentary, Osama bin Laden and his new documentary, "War on Terrorism," set to air on Oct. 4, 2001, also on PBS's "Frontline."

The transcript follows.

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washingtonpost.com: Good afternoon, Mr. Smith, and welcome. Your film on Osama bin Laden, now updated twice, details his motivations and his rise as an opponent of the United States. What did you learn in your reporting on bin Laden, and did anything surprise you? What has changed since the original film?

Martin Smith: I think the biggest surprise was always understanding that his motivations had to do with the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, and that the support for that objection on his part was widespread throughout the Muslim world. Whether people supported his tactics was another question. But we found that even among moderate Muslims, there's widespread condemnation for the presence of U.S. troops in Saudia Arabia. And I think most Americans don't realize how we're viewed there.

Fairfax, Va.: Could you discuss bin Laden's appeal to supporters? It is unclear to me how broad his support is, particularly in Afganistan, and where it is based.

Martin Smith: I spent my time mostly in Africa and in Kenya and Tanzania, which have large Muslim communities. I also spent time in the Islamic republic of the Sudan. His appeal to many disenfranchised poor Muslims is that he stands up to what in these communities is seen as a tyrant nation -- the United States of America. They feel that Western culture, Western values are being shoved down their throats, and they resent it. Let me say that they think of democracy as an aberration, because our ideal of democracy is that power emanates from the people. And what they believe is that power should only come from God, as mediated by the Koran and Muslim leaders. It is a fundamentally different mindset.

There's support for bin Laden's ideas. Less support for his methods. But people see the recent attacks -- I have a producer in Kuala Lumpur, and he says people are shocked and horrified, but they hope it will be a wakeup call to the United States.

Washington, D.C.: If we do successfully execute bin Laden, wouldn't it just make him a martyr for his cause and strengthen his followers? Surely someone, possibly more evil, would just step in to his place.

Martin Smith: I think that's a real concern, and I think and I hope that our policy makers are aware of that. But I think that they're hoping that his charisma will be gone, and his considerable ability to fund-raise would be gone. But it is true that his organization has several people that are ready to step in if and when he disappears.

Washington, D.C.: I've heard that bin Laden has a fortune of up to $300 million, and I've also heard that that number is greatly exaggerated. Any reliable intelligence about what kind of funds we're talking about here? Do you know if it's true that he's been dealing in the European markets and selling short to help finance his ventures?

Martin Smith: As to whether or not there's reliable intelligence on how much money he has, that's the key question. If he has $300 million, if he ever had $300 million, I doubt he still has that much. I think there's the possibility that he inherited or was able to get his hands on much less money. And there have been intelligence efforts to cut off access to his bank accounts. And one of the people who cooperated with the U.S. government was a former accountant of bin Laden. They made some progress in 1998 in cutting off some of his money. But here's where his ability to raise fresh funds from wealthy supporters is so important. He was a very successful fund-raiser against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.

As to whether he's been selling short the markets, I don't know any more than what I've read.

Richmond, Va.: Last week, bin Laden denied any involvement in Tuesday's attacks. If he is responsible, is it surprising he'd lie about involvement when he believes these types of attacks are justified?

Martin Smith: First of all, it's his kind of modus operandi to deny involvement. He did that with the East Africa embassy bombings, and he did that with the attack on the U.S.S. Cole. So the fact that he denies it -- I don't think it means much one way or the other. And he does stay removed from direct involvement in these actions -- I've watched several interviews with him, and he always points out that he couldn't have been involved with this attack or that attack because he wasn't there. The real evidence won't be in what he says or doesn't say, but in what investigators can ferret out. One of the problems we have here is that the Saudis, for instance, and the Yemenis, haven't been cooperative. We can't talk to witnesses or suspects, because they don't give us access.

Boston, Mss.: bin Laden says he didn't do it. What if he didn't? What if some people who admire him did it, he really didn't know until after it was over?

Also, what can you tell us about our support and training of bin Laden? Does this qualify as "harboring"?

Thanks, and peace!

Martin Smith: We're spending $11 billion on intelligence a year. Let's hope that we can find out who did do it.

I've spoken to the CIA's man in Afghanistan [during the war against the Soviet Union] Milt Bearden. Bearden says that bin Laden's group was primarily providing funds and support services for families of fighters, and did not engage in much combat. And certainly, he claims that he never had direct contact with bin Laden at that time.

London, England: What should be the end-game in the upcoming "war on terrorism"? Is it naive for the Bush administration to believe that it is a winnable war?

Martin Smith: I think Bush is starting to sound a little bit like a cartoon super hero, with some of his simple pronouncements. "I will get rid of all evil doers?" That looks like something that Spiderman would say. The end game is quite a ways away. The depths of resentment, the huge gulf between us and them in terms of perspective -- those are things that are going to be very difficult to address, and can only be addressed in the long term. Fundamental to many Americans' understanding of the world is that everybody wants to be like us. And if you spend time in the Muslim world, you learn very quickly that this isn't true.

When the president uses words like "a crusade against terrorism," he's either being naive or he is purposely trying to stir up deep-felt emotions. Certainly, many militant Muslims would consider this an affront. They feel that they're still fighting the crusades of centuries past.

Arlington, Va.: Assuming bin Laden is behind this, do you think he would've picked this fight (knowing we'd retaliate) without an ace up his sleeve... in the form of bio-weapons or something else?

Martin Smith: I think he's got an ace up his sleeve in that he feels that he defeated the Soviets in Afghanistan. That if we come after him on that turf, his people know those mountains. And he believes, rightly or wrongly, that he can embarrass us there. I have no opinion as to whether or not he has biological weapons -- that's a question for others.

Martin Smith: One of the things that keeps getting said is that these operations require state sponsorship. I don't see that. One of these operations costs less than it takes for me to produce a "Frontline." Let's say it costs a million dollars. That's not a lot of money. You need a base. I think we're making too big a deal about the sophistication of these operations. They were carried out without any weapons -- they had box cutters. These kinds of operations don't require state sponsorship.

washingtonpost.com:

That wraps up today's show. Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion.

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Live Online Special Coverage: Attack on American Soil. Today's guests include a World Trade Center survivor, Rep. Brian Baird (D-Wash.), Rep. Benjamin Cardin (D-Md.) and Martin Smith, filmaker of the documentary, "Hunting bin Laden."

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