Untitled
The Timothy McVeigh Execution
With Paul Heath
Founder and Former President,
Oklahoma City Murrah Building Survivors Association
Monday, June 11, 2001; 4 p.m. EDT
Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh was put to death by lethal injection Monday, June 11, at 7:14 a.m. (Central Daylight Time). McVeigh abandoned legal efforts Friday for another stay of execution after a federal appeals court denied his emergency plea.
Paul Heath, in the Alfred P. Murrah building during the blast on April 19, 1995, will be online Monday, June 11, at 4 p.m. EDT, to discuss the day's events.
Heath is a counseling psychologist and has worked with veterans and their family members. He is founder and former president of the Oklahoma City Murrah Building Survivors Association.
A transcript follows.
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Paul Heath: June 11, 2001 started for me at 4:30 p.m. when I made a conscious decision not to attend the closed-circuit television feed of Timothy McVeigh's demanded execution. I chose to be present at the site of the Oklahoma City National Memorial to fulfill promises made to print, radio, television and .com media to continue the story of those that died, those that survived and those who were changed forever. I'll be happy to take any questions you may have about my being in the A.P. Murrah Building April 19, 1995 when a truck bomb exploded 65 feet over my right shoulder destroying 43% of the floor space in a 9-story building that I had worked in since it was new. I also served as a psychologist for the Department of Veterans Affairs as well as the office coordinator. I was also the medical safety officer for the safety committee and in that role had practiced getting people out of the building during preparation drills. The day of the bombing, three of my co-workers were seriously injured. Two have since died. It was my privilege to assist them to get out of the building and then I stayed all day on the south side of the building assisting others. The 4,000 pound fertilizer bomb delivered in a yellow Ryder truck which was parked within inches of the main support beam that held up the north curtain of the building resulted in 167 deaths including 19 children and three unborn children. One other death resulted from a nurse who came to help and a falling piece of material from the building struck her, fatally wounding her.
Orono, Maine:
I feel a great deal of ysmpathy for those who were injured or killed in the bombing. It was a dispicable act. But, I'm also asking myself today how this nation benefits from putting Timothy McVeigh to death. Are we really better country for it?
Paul Heath: You are absolutely correct that we are not better off as a nation; however, put yourself in the place of one of the twelve jurors who heard all of the evidence and was instructed by the judge as to the law and twelve citizens agreed that the prosecution had proven the charges of conspiracy to plan, build, deliver and explode an instrument of mass destruction that resulted in the death of eight law enforcement officials who were employed at the time of their death. We would be far worse off as a country if we did not now support that jury decision as to innocence or guilt and punishment. The appellate process proved to me because I attended all the trial and appellate efforts and there is no question in my mind and others who attended all of the trials that the capital punishment penalty was the appropriate punishment. Please remember though, Mr. McVeigh filed a demand on Pearl Harbor Day, Dec. 7, 2000, under the current legal statutes that allowed him to demand that the Bureau of Prisons set an execution date. On Dec. 28, 2000, judge Matsch held a hearing to determine if he was reasonably pheasible to request the execution date and the condemned inmate was advised by his attorneys, his family, the judge and with a two-page affidavit from myself, recommending that he not demand that his execution date be set. He ignored all of those concerns and recommendations including waiving his final appellate rights which resulted in the June 11th execution.
Virginia:
What do you think the execution of McVeigh accomplished? Do you really think that the victims and their families, particularly those who chose to watch the execution, will be happier people as a result? Are they satisfied now that the deed has been done? And do you or any of them think this will deter future McVeighs from committing terrorist acts?
Paul Heath: Timothy McVeigh was executed because he demanded it! No there was no satisfaction, no gloating and no joy that resulted in the viewing of Timothy McVeigh's demanded execution. The only element to observing the execution that will have a long lasting positive effect is the reality that Timothy McVeigh now can never hurt anyone else in your family or our family again.
I do not think it will deter future McVeighs. What will deter future, delusional, paranoid persons is when other citizens learn of their plans to commit acts of violence in the name of any cause can be reported to the appropriate officials who can prevent them. The Oklahoma Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism, which is an element of our memorial, conducted an institute meeting in the summer of 2000 and when I asked how many bombings the FBI had prevented since the April 19, 1995 bombing, I was told they numbered aroound 40. I believe this statistic to be true.
Future deterrent must come from our neighbors, coworkers and others who observe individuals who espouse the same kinds of claims and threats that can be inspired by books like "The Turner Diaries." Evidence in the trial indicated that Mr. McVeigh not only sold at gun shows copies of "The Turner Diaries," but he had personally read it over six hundred times. He also told neighbors and friends that he believed that "the government had implanted a computer chip in his buttocks" and "the government was tracing him wherever he went." For a psychologist, such as myself, it's pretty obvious that these are part of the components of a paranoid, delusional disorder. If you want further information about paranoid delusional disorder, look in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (4th edition) published by the American Psychiatric Association. Look on pp. 296 -- 301 as I have and see what you learn.
Kentucky:
Do you feel the media attention and almost status people receive from being a 'victim's family' promotes the healing process? As much as going through such a harrowing event does make someone a different person, I wonder if becoming a victim is really ever healing?
Paul Heath: First let me explain that any person who observes the death of others in situations that are not considered to be normal, that is, not normal death, and when they feel their own lives threatened in these abnormal ways or the lives of others are threatened, they can and often do develop post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). PTSD is an anxiety disorder that results from this kind of trauma.
When the media covers this kind of traumatic event and when audiences participate by watching or listening excessively to the coverage can also be adversely affected by the reporting. We have done research and have found the more citizens absorbed the media coverage, the more adversely they were affected by the bombing event, even though they were not in the immediate area, that is to say the 18 squarea blocks where buildings were damaged by the bombing.
We also found that where people were healthy before the bombing, they were able to be less affected by it, except there is a correlation between being close to the epicenter of the bomb itself and the research shows the closer you were the more adversely you were affected. Another statistic is the more you were physically disabled by the bombing, the more likely you were to have experienced PTSD. The key ingredient in developing PTSD is whether or not you experienced the bombing in an atomosphere where you perceived you were helpless. I know personally people who had PTSD symptoms in the past from previous traumas resulted in late onset PTSD symptoms.
Somewhere, USA:
It really saddens me to see the Americans that smile and cheer the death of the despicable Mcveigh. It does not make sense to claim that life is precious and sacred while killing even a horrible killer in cold blood. It would have been more of a punishment for him to live the rest of his life in a no frills prison.
Paul Heath: I've heard similar statements from some of the most severely disabled bombing victims who survived the Oklahoma City bombing. Opinions about the death penalty did not change simply because it was Timothy McVeigh who demanded to be put to death. It is one of the most divisive issues any two human beings can discuss when one believes one way and the other person believes the opposite.
Austin, Tex.:
Mr Heath,
Thank you for your heroism in Oklahoma, and for taking your time today.
Recently, someone said that they would be at peace with McVeigh's execution only if Janet Reno were strapped to a gurney next to him.
How do you counsel those who hold Janet Reno and Bill Clinton to be just as much monsters as McVeigh, and believe that justice should have prevailed in both tragic instances?
Thank you.
Paul Heath: I'm proud to tell you that the Constitution of the U.S. provides for the courts and for other federal services that were rendered in the buiding where I worked. The civil servants who worked in my building were providing the constitutionally required services that our representative republic deemed necessary. It's easy to come to believe a lot of things if any person is demonized long enough by others that you respect. President Bill Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno did not assist Timothy McVeigh to plan, build and deliver an instrument of mass destruction. However, they both chose to be public servants and took the same oath of office that I took which is "I pledge to protect and defend the constitution of the U.S. against all enemies foreign or domestic" and in my judgement when Attorney General Janet Reno exercised her responsibilites for determining the prosecution by the Justice Department of Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier, she did so as a part of her public service job responsibility. I would like to share with you the reality that both President Bill Clinton and Mrs. Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno impressed most of us who were victims of this bombing as "caring and sensitive public servants who had not ony the country's best interests at heart but ours."
Most of the family members and survivors that I know of have not politicized this bombing event and I wont' start now. Mr. McVeigh was just as hate-filled and critical of George Bush Sr., his commander-in-chief when he served in the Army, as well as George W. Bush Jr. when he refused to even allow executive clemency to be considered. And even though he (McVeigh) politicized the bombings events and the aftermath, we as a group have not.
Arlington, VA:
My friend who works at a Dallas Federal agency says that several bombing "refugees" now work with her and it is clear they have been damaged emotionally. She tries to help by listening to them whenever they wish to open up. As I understand it that is an appropriate response to PTSD. Is this something that other people who are in contact with victims should be encouraged to do? Or should they be directed to professionals?
Paul Heath: My opinion is both. It's helpful for you to be a concerned listener, but when the symptoms interfere significantly with the individual's social and occupational lives, professiionals can be of a great deal of benefit including a referral to a psychiatrist who can prescribe appropriate medication as needed. I have worked with veterans from WWII through Desert Storm, including the peace time veterans. Some of them had mild, moderate and severe PTSD and my own experience is no two were alike. PTSD is a real disorder and it can be treated successfully if the patient and those others in the person's life will work with mental health professionals and it is important for early referral to be the rule, if at all possible. I must also remind others that late onset PTSD is one of the phenomenas that seems difficult for many to believe but it can be brought on by other traumatic events. But the symptoms of the current PTSD may well have its origins in a remote trauma rather than the current situation. If you are dealing with individuals who are veterans, the Department of Veterans Affairs medical centers have competent and knowledgeable staffs that are willing and capable to treat these individuals. Seventy-eight percent of my fellow coworkers referred themselves to mental health professionals for treatment following the bombing of April 19, 1995.
The Federal Workmen's Compensation Bureau (Dallas, Tex.) made a decision that allowed any person who was an employee of the federal government that was working in the A.P. Murrah Federal Building at the time of the bombing to seek professional help from a qualified mental health professional.
Late onset PTSD treatment is also possible through the Federal Workmen's Compensation Bureau for those who were in the A.P. Murrah Federal Building at the time of the bombing.
Paul Heath: In order to get the full story of the Oklahoma City bombing one would need to plan at least two or more hours to visit the Oklahoma City National Memorial indoor museum. We welcome you to come and I believe after you visit the indoor museum, you'll have a better insight into all of the aspects of this tragic event that should have never happened.
I gladly welcome any correspondence that you want to direct to me at the OK City Murrah Building Survivors Association office at P.O Box 304, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73101-0304.
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