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Post Magazine
This Week:
Confessions of a Gossip Columnist
Hosted by Lloyd Grove
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, Aug. 20, 2001; 1 p.m. EDT
There is "no Pulitzer Prize for gossip and no graduate course on how to find the sweet spot between the grand salon and the gutter," wrote Lloyd Grove in Sunday's Washington Post Magazine. And: "writing a daily gossip column, like the manufacture of sausage, is not pretty. But I never promised it was going to be pretty. Just reliable."
Yes, the very idea of a gossip column induces journalistic hand-wringing and ruffles ethical feathers at a serious newspaper like The Washington Post. But publish such a column the newspaper does.
Grove was online Monday, Aug. 20 at 1 p.m. EDT to field questions and comments about the world of gossip and his place in it.
Grove, who writes The Reliable Source column in Style, has been
a reporter at The Post for 20 years. He also hosts a regular Live Online discussion Fridays at 11 a.m. EDT.
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Lloyd Grove: Good afternoon, all. Hope you didn't hate the Sunday magazine piece that occasions this discussion. Guess I'll find out. Anyhow, I want everyone to know that I drove from Eastern Long Island into Manhattan (through terrible traffic) just to do this. That's how much I care! Now to your concerns.
McLean, Va.:
Lloyd, to look at your picture I would NEVER have thought you old enough to have a 20+ year career. You must have gotten into journalism as an infant. It must the easy-going, laid-back nature of the gossip biz that keeps you looking young.
Hey, why are you working? Aren't you on vacation?
Lloyd Grove: You are too, too kind. Actually, full-disclosure, that photo was taken a couple of years ago and more than one thoughtful person has thought it important to tell me how much younger I look in the picture than reality reflects. This is my last act before vacation.
Denver, Colo.:
Mr Grove: You seem to be a good looking man with a powerful personality. Does this help you to be a gossip? Do you magnetize and coerce people out of their secrets?
Lloyd Grove: Yes, I am Svengali and everyone with whom I come in contact is helpless before my powerful will! But seriously, what does help is having a thick skin, because you know you're gonna take some nicks and dents if you write a daily gossip column.
Arlington, Va.:
Loved the article. It was snippy and dishy at the same time. I'm always interested in how people end up doing what they do, so your approach was really interesting.
My comment was regarding your conflict of interest. I think every journalism student in American would have said not including a story about your girlfriend (or someone you are "seeing") is a "no-brainer" and that to cover her was a giant conflict. The accompanying media flurry should also not have been terribly surprising, especially since the two of your are so visible.
If you had to do it over, would you have made the same call to include a story?
Lloyd Grove: Well, I think the conflict of interest rules for a gossip column are a tad more flexible than straight journalism. Where I erred was in not disclosing to the readers the nature of our relationship. But I write about people I know and like frequently, some of them are bonafide friends. And usually, I try to make that clear by saying "our friend" although sometimes that phrase is used ironically in the column. To answer your question: Yes, I would do an item about Amy Holmes if she was named one of Peoples 50 Most Beautiful People, but I would have Barbara Martinez do it, and I would be explicit about our relationship. But in general, I won't be writing about Amy in the column.
Wiredog:
So, does the place on Long Island have AC and a bed? Or is it like your trendy Adams Morgan estate?
Lloyd Grove: Wasn't my place and it was a fabulous unbelievable estate. so there was plenty of everything.
Boston, Mass.:
Lloyd,
I just want to say that I loved the article and wish it had been longer. I am now eagerly awaiting your memoirs!
Lloyd Grove: That's very sweet of you. I must say I hope you're patient because my memoirs, if any, are many years away.
Bethesda:
How has the Internet affected your job? I imagine it's both a research tool and competition. Have you found that it's affected your approach over the past few years?
Lloyd Grove: It makes my job a little easier in the sense that I can plug in to the world of information and gossip instantly and feel that I;m pretty much up to speed on everything that's said to be going on. On the other hand, it does provide competition--and I'm always reading the online publications like slate and salon, and the webzines like kausfiles.com to see if there's anything I shd follow, and if so, I try to give proper credit to the Internet entity. But there's also a lot of interactivity between reader and writer that the Web offers, and that's all to the good.
Silver Spring, Md.:
Mr. Grove,
The few big shots that I've meet in Washington have been on the bombastic and self-righteous side. This doesn't suprise me, given what I hear from their mouths. My question is: Have you met any politicians that are truly nice people? If so, does this affect what you write about them?
Lloyd Grove: Yes, shockingly enough, I have met politicians who are also nice people, and yes, it does affect how I write about them, as opposed to how I write about the people who are not nice. In general , I write about nice people much more favorably than I do jerks (as I judge them). I'm trying to promote niceness in my own backhanded snark little nasty way.
D.C.:
I have to say, your job sounds sort of exhausting. Sure you cover glamorous parties and people, but it seems to be a lot more work and networking than I would've thought. How long do you think you will continue as our Reliable Source? It must be quite a struggle to fill daily columns with fresh, interesting stuff...
Lloyd Grove: It does get exhausting from time to time, and the vacation I've interrupted to check in with y'all is much needed. I don't know how long I'll continue to do the column. As long as it is fun and interesting, which it continues to be.
Bethesda, Md.:
Lloyd, I enjoyed your piece this Sunday. I'm a new-to-Lloyd reader, and I've noticed you seem to have quite a following. Being so good-looking and forthright, do you, uh, ever have problems with fans, ie: stalkers? Want one? (just kidding!)
Lloyd Grove: I do have stalkers, but they tend to be creditors.
Athens, Greece:
Hi Lloyd, I'm a Greek journalist and I read your article about Gingrich and the nature of gossip columns. I have to say I enjoyed it very much.
Id like to ask you if you have regretted taking on "The Reliable Source" and if you feel comfortable about it.
I'd also like to ask you how easy/difficult it is for a journalist from abroad to find a job in the U.S.
Thanks.
Lloyd Grove: Wow. Greece. That's another great facet of the Internet, to be able to communicate instantly with folks all over the world. So far, I feel like I'm having a good time while working hard writing the column. As for the job question, unless you are sent here to cover the U.s. BY A gREEK (or as our president would say "grecian") publication, it would be difficult to land a fulltime job with an Amiercan outlet. Best thing to do is come here and try freelance writing and see if that leads anywhere.
D.C.:
I thought it was interesting that you included information about your relationship with Amy Holmes. It definitely added a human element to the piece by illustrating that sometimes journalists become the news themselves. Was Amy cool with being included in your story?
Lloyd Grove: So far as I know, she was--though I think she found it a bit weird to be written about in that manner, that is as the central character in somebody else's career crisis.
D.C.:
Was it your idea to write this piece? Were you worried about giving away any trade secrets, or is it a good idea to get your name out there so nosy neighbors think to call when they see something good involving local celebs?
Lloyd Grove: It was definitely not my idea. Glenn Frankel, the editor of the magazine, first broached the idea more than two years ago, and has been regularly reminding me of it since. Finally I got sick of Glenn's nagging, and did it.
Philly, PA:
You mentioned that you have to have a thick skin in public when dealing with folks who aren't happy with what you've written.
The magazine article, however, seems to be a confessional article in the sense that "yes, I write these things because the job tells me to and I feel awful about it."
Am I missing something? Are gossip columnists actually allowed to have human feelings?
(thought it was a great article and always read the Reliable Source even tho I no longer live in D.C.).
Lloyd Grove: Gossip columnists are certainly allowed to have human feelings. But it doesn't help when you're actually at work writing the column. It's a challenge to keep faith with your readers, who generally want the dirtiest and nastiest lowdown stuff you can serve up, and not turn into a dirty, nasty, lowdown human being. Does this sound like I'm blaming the readers?
D.C.:
What in the world could there be to hate? An insider's view to a day in the life of a gossip columnist, several juicy anecdotes about snarky Washington insiders, and Newt and Callista to boot! I loved this piece. I just really wish you could tell us who the Clinton administration official was who regularly traded gossip for a positive mention in your column...
Lloyd Grove: Thanks for the kind words. And I know you understand that I would never ever burn a source.
Alexandria, Va.:
Lloyd, loved the article in the Magazine! So, for the really important gossip of the day, are you and Amy still a hot item?
Lloyd Grove: Thanks,
yes.
Washington, D.C.:
Did you get any flak from the Clinton White House when you published the item about Chelsea's boyfriend last summer?
Lloyd Grove: I heard through the gravevine that Bill and Hillary weren't upset with my report, which followed a scoop in the NY Daily News, but we're quite upset by my declaration that Chelsea was now fair game.
Old Gay Man in D.C.:
Hello Lloyd.
Loved your piece yesterday. Very entertaining. And that cover! I immediately tore down my posters of Justin Timberlake and put you up. Got any of you in a thong?
Lloyd Grove: Yikes.
Sorry, that's all I can think of to say.
Detroit, Mich.:
So did you ever become a babe magnet?
Lloyd Grove: See posting above.
20004:
Lloyd - First, let me say that it was a great piece - a point of view most people don't think about at all. You remarked at one point in the article about not wanting a piece of info on you to affect your children. Since then, have there been any occasions that have had an impact on your kids?
Lloyd Grove: I'm sure my kids, like all children, are affected by everything they come in contact with, and they, like most kids, are also very risilient and resourceful. I have managed to take them to a couple of events I got press passes to, so it ain't all bad.
Washington, D.C.:
You opened your magazine piece by noting your reluctance to take a job where, rather than weighing the weighty issues of the day, you'd be traveling in, uh, topics a bit lighter. Do you still think about this? Does it bother you that you aren't writing about matters that really affect real people or that make a difference in people's actual lives?
Lloyd Grove: That was perhaps a bit of snobbishness on my part. I do think, oddly, that I'm writing about stuff that people care about, but of course it's not crusading journalism of the kind that this newspaper has done so well over the years. But it certainly keeps me awake.
Orlando, Fla.:
This was a fantastic piece of writing. I just have one question: why is it called "gossip" when it's really life?
Aren't you just the woman with the cup of coffee on the backyard fence (uh, I mean, the guy)?
Lloyd Grove: I think gossip is a very important element in holding civilization together, and I don't think I'm kidding. The only people who don't like gossip, it seems to me, are dead. But gossiping suggests that we are interested in one another and care about one another and see ourselves as members of a socieity and a community.
Pentagon City, Va.:
You're not blaming the readers -- it's just human nature. People, from all walks of life and classes, revel in the dirty and low-down. It's a fact of life and if you are providing a service -- which you are -- you just have to accept it and work with it as best you can. I, for one, think you do a very admirable job of providing us with gossip in a classy and humane a way as possible.
Lloyd Grove: As Alice Roosevelt Longworth once said, If you haven't got anything nice to say about anyone, come sit here by me. (actually, I believe Teddy Roosevelt's daughter had that embroidered on a pillow,)
Alexandria:
What types of items would you "never" print?
Drugs? Sexual orientation? Discreet
infidelity? When would you bend these rules?
Lloyd Grove: There's never a never, and everything must be considered in context. In general though, I would never "out" somebody's sexual orientation, I would never write about discreet infidelity (because, by definition, if it's discreet, I won't know about it), and I won't write about drugs if it's private behavior in private and has no impact in public behavior. But if, for example, somebody prominent snorts some coke and then makes a public scene, then I think it's getting close to being an item.
D.C.:
What happened to the previous "Reliable Source" editors?
Lloyd Grove: Annie Groer is a writer in the Home section, and Ann Gerhart writes Style pieces as a general assignment writer in Style. Both tell me they're happy in their work.
22204:
Are there other "gossip" writers that you especially like and respect? What is it about their work that you admire?
Lloyd Grove: I read all the New York columnists for competitive reasons, and I have to say that the New York Post's Page Six column, written by Richard Johnson and his team, is the gold standard. The column is funny fearless brash, dirty, and mostly right.
D.C.:
Hey -
Wow, I guess I never realized how exhausting your job could be.
You must be great at reading people -- can you tell instantly who's being sincere, honest and earnest, and who's being smarmy and dishonest?
Lloyd Grove: My b.s. detector is pretty well-honed by this time. But I'm sure that I can be fooled--as witnessed by the incident I recount at the beginning of the article.
Rrosslyn:
Lloyd,
The RS used to be the 2nd place I went to in the Post after the crossword. But then Ann Landers got moved to the spot right beneath the crossword. now I'm reading the RS thirdly. I'm sorry. It's just easier that way. Still, I feel like I've betrayed you and I would never do that! -- Sniffle, sniffle --
Lloyd Grove: Now, here's a perfect example. Does this person REALLY feel bad about this betrayal? I don't THINK so.
Muttontown, N.Y.:
Given all we've read about the mutual envy between Washington and Hollywood -- and the fact that on occasion you write about showbiz folks -- what's the west coast reaction to your writings? Do Hollywood gossip columnists trade secrets with you? Do you count movie stars among you fans (or critics)?
Lloyd Grove: Every so often the Left Coasters pay attention. I know that a recent item about NBC President ANdy Lack and the prodigious efforts the company made to retrieve his BlackBerry organizers was widely read and commented upon out there, even the precincts of NBC! I have no proof that movie stars regeularly read the column, but I wouldn't be surprised if they read all the columns. They, too, are concerning about branding and have to keep up with what's going on with THEIR brands. I don't have much to do with my L.A. counterprts except at Oscar time, when we compete for jumbo shrimp.
EraserheadGuy, D.C.:
Those of us who have been following you for a while know that the bit about your girlfriend is not the only instance where you have become the story. Need I remind you of the Washingtonian's reporting on your investments in Microstrategy and coverage of its CEO, as well as your tipping practices a la Bistrot due Coin? How come those topics didn't make it into your (excellent) article?
Lloyd Grove: You are correct, though I must observe that Washingtonian has not hectored me at all since I ran a little item about their own, Phil Merrill, and some of his choice comments about Kathleen Kennedy Townsend during a phone conversation in which he kept bellowing profanities. As for why these incidents didn't make it in the article, brevity is the soul of wit. or something.
Rockville, Md.:
Lloyd:
What is the story behind the Washingtonian sidebar several months ago, which was basically a turn-the-tables-on-the-gossip-columnist via the printing of a Bistrot Du Coin check of yours? The check revealed you had apparently left NO tip. Can this be true? The man who makes it a point to regularly point out the chintz-factor in our favorite celebrities was exposed as a non-tipper?
Lloyd Grove: apparently I left a 14. 6 percent tip (on lousy service, I hasten to point out), but if you subtract the tax, my tip comes to something over 15 percent. That being said, I do not count myself among the city's more generous tippers.
Washington, D.C.:
Now that we have further proof that you can photograph well, can't you convince Post.com to remove that dorky picture that graces the page that links to your columns?
Lloyd Grove: I would welcome it. This topic has come up many times. Maybe it's reaching critical mass. Then again, maybe not.
Aspiring author:
Dear Lloyd,
Could you describe how you work with assistants? It was interesting to me to read a little about how that works. I can't imagine doing collaborative writing, even with a Harvard grad. Do you write everything? Share research? Are you both responsible for scoops and dishing dirt? Thanks!
Lloyd Grove: Basically, Barbara Martinez tries to keep things from flying apart, by keeping track of what we're doing day in and day out and then working on reporting her own items--either things she has suggested to me, or things I assign her. Then she'll file me something, I'll pepper her with questions and sometimes I'll leave it pretty much as she wrote it, and sometimes I'll do a top to bottom rewrite. But Barbara's responsible for keeping me in touch with YOUTH!
Re: Snarky:
Is that your word or Haxy's?
Love ya both.
Lloyd Grove: It's a word that came into use in the early 1980s, I believe.
Arlington, Va.:
Newt and "good people" in the same sentence. Daring. Erroneous. Trifling!
I had liked you up until now, Lloyd. But the man left his wife when she had breast cancer. Come on now!
And can you confirm the rumor that Tom Sietsema used to be a model?
Lloyd Grove: Just tryin' to amuse. I think I readsomething in Washingtonian about Tom's short happy modeling career.
Washington, D.C.:
Lloyd:
You said in your mag article (which was fun, interesting, well-written, blah, blah, blah)that you hear from many (too many?) publicists.
As a publicist myself (which is hard to admit), what advice would have about for contacting you? In other words, when's a good time to contact you and your associate, and when isn't?
Lloyd Grove: Good questions. Unless you have something really hot for the next day's column, you will get short shrift if you call me after 4:30 p.m. on a day that I'm writing the column. Best time is before 3 p.m., and you'll be most effective if you read my column suifficently to understand what it is I might like or not like to put in it. Also, when you call me, get to the point quickly. What many publicists have msitaken for rudeness on my part is just my need to get on with putting together the column. Hope that helps us both.,
New York City:
Hi Lloyd, I was wondering how you handled Mrs. Graham's funeral. A bevvy of celebrities and a somber mood?
Lloyd Grove: Basically, I just went as someone who liked and admired Mrs. Graham, and didn't make an effort to schmooze with celebs. And I certainly didn't demand that Bill Gates usher me to my seat, like some people who write for the washingtonpost magazine.
D.C.:
I really enjoyed your article in the Magazine yesterday.
Also, I've noticed Dana Milbank's name in your column several times recently -- mostly as a source of gossip re: others, but most recently describing one of his Central Texas dining expericences. Do you feel a bond with Dana as a fellow Yale grad, or is he just the only one with anything to offer in this slow news month? (No hostility intended here -- I overlapped at Yale with Dana myself).
Lloyd Grove: Dana is a god to me. That's the only way I can explain it.
Fairfax County:
Why did you stop running that silly photo of Strobe Talbot? Man, it was funny. I mean it just never got old. And it filled lots of column inches too.
Lloyd Grove: Appartently it's still very much a part of YOUR life, as fasinating as it must be, since you bring it up more than TWO YEARS LATER! (Anyone else care to joust with me on the Plains of Sarcasm?)
Re: contacting you about a story:
Do you read your e-mail?
Lloyd Grove: I try to. Obviously I miss some of it, and while I'm gone I can't get it. But I've gotten some great items from folks who have emailed me.
Washington, D.C.:
What's the best way to feed you tidbits we readers think might be worthy of your column? Can we e-mail? Call you if we don't want there to be a record of the communication?
Lloyd Grove: Either way. And if you want anonymity, I will gladly give it.
D.C.:
Do you have any friends who are just average Joe's and not part of the social/political elite?
Lloyd Grove: I would pretty much describe all my friends that way. No, they're not bagging groceries at Giant, but they have, and they pretty much have their feet on the ground, as I hope, I do as well.
Alexandria, Va.:
Lloyd, just curious, since you said you were concerned about your children vis a vis the Amy thing, has concern for a subject's children ever impacted what you write? Do you soften anything if you think someone's children might be affected?
Lloyd Grove: Well, it depends. I try not to write about the children of prominent folks, unless they have done something laudible or else have interacted with our wonderful law enforcement community. But if someone is a public official or otherwise noteworthy, I don't go around wringing my hands thinking, but what will their children think? They shoulda thought about that before doing whatever it was that got my interest.,
Detroit, Mich.:
Oh let's face it. RS is the reason people read the Post. It's the stuff we all talk around the water cooler. So when other reporters sniff at your being a gossip columnist, let them know that no one is talking about their latest article on the latest coup in outer Mongolia...
Lloyd Grove: I certainly will. In the meantime, my time is up here and I have to hit the highway to get back home. Many thanks to all of you who read the magazine piece and continue to read the Reliable Source column, which will return after Labor Day. Till then, have a great couple of weeks. I'll see you back here for ym regular discussion the Friday after Labor Day at 11 a.m. Bye.
washingtonpost.com:
That was our last question today. Thanks to everyone who joined the
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