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Life 360:
Episode 2: "A Place In Time"
With Susan Estrich and Kelly St. John
Friday, Oct. 12, 2001; 3 p.m. EDT
"Life 360" airs Fridays at 9 p.m. on PBS stations (check local listings). The second episode, "A Place in Time," talks about how random events and
chance meetings can change lives. One segment of the episode,"Forever Fourteen," tells a story of criminal assault, survival, and coming
to terms.
Susan Estrich, an expert in womens issues and violence against women, and "Forever Fourteen" documentary film producer Kelly St. John discussed the second episode on Friday, Oct. 12 at 3 p.m. EDT.
"Life 360" is described as "an eclectic showcase of stories exploring a
different theme each week. Independent filmmakers, writers, comedians,
musicians, and others will take each theme apart, put it back together,
and stand it on its head to discover unexpected perspectives.
Estrich's scholarly interests are in law and politics, criminal law and gender discrimination. Prior to joining the USC faculty, Professor Estrich taught at Harvard Law School. Her scholarly publications include Getting Away with Murder: Politics, Crime, and the Rule of Law; Real Rape; Dangerous Offenders (with Moore, McGillis, & Spellman); and "Sex at Work." She was the first woman president of the Harvard Law Review. Professor
Estrich was special assistant to Senator Edward M. Kennedy, and staff
counsel and special assistant to the chief counsel for the U.S. Senate
Judiciary Committee. Professor Estrich teaches
criminal law, gender discrimination, and election Law at the University of Southern
California Law School.
St. John, 27, is a documentary filmmaker and journalist from the San
Francisco Bay Area. She completed, "Forever Fourteen," as
her
masters' thesis at the University of California at Berkeley's Graduate
School of Journalism. An Orange County native, St. John is a staff writer
at
the San Francisco Chronicle.
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Arlington, Va.:
Can you explain the premise of this episode of Life 360?
Susan Estrich and Kelly St. John: Kelly: The premise of the whole thing is "A place in time" -- exploring the idea of fate and the randomness of how something can happen that changes your whole life... lives crossed... and this particular piece called "Forever Fourteen" is the story of two girls who cross paths with a stranger and met different fates. Sort of a comparison of how two places in time meant different things to two different families.
Washington, D.C.:
Susan, how do you relate personally to this week's storyline?
Susan Estrich and Kelly St. John: Kelly: The premise of the story is a personal story, the gist is that in 1987 a girl was kidnapped in Orange County and she was later found raped and murdered. The following year I was raped and let go. The assailant plead guilty and spent 20 years in prison. Only many years later a DNA match solved the earlier unsolved murder, in 1996 he was prosecuted for it.
Susan: I'm a lawyer and a rape victim and I've worked on rape law for many years. I think fate is obviously a huge issue, but those of us who have survived carry our scars. It is enormously brave and important of Kelly to be telling this story. There is no underestimating the pain of doing so. This sense of being lucky to be alive stays with you. I had a girlfriend who had the same experience -- and there is something terrifying about the recognition of how close you were to death.
Philadelphia, Pa.:
How did Kelly St. John's documentary become a part of Live 360?
Susan Estrich and Kelly St. John: Inadvertently, I was in conversations with them about other products and sent in my docutmentary to the exec producer as an example of my work. THe exec producer watched it and said she really loved it and later she said she wanted to make it part of the show.
Susan: And that's important, not only for Kelly, but for other women. I've found in the 25 years since I was attacked that every time I tell the story, whether in a classroom or on television, women come up to me who have never told anyone of their experiences and connect. for those of us attempting to tell our stories, it is extremely helpful to other women.
Washington, DC:
Ms. St. John. This is such an incredible story that you tell in the film Forever Fourteen. I have only read the story on the Life 360 web site and found it so haunting and moving. How did you find this story or did it find you?
Susan Estrich and Kelly St. John: Kelly: I think there is something about the proccess of making something -- writing or filmmaking -- it really is therapeutic. I also allowed the people who went through it with me to talk about it. My parents. In the end, it does end up, it's so much more of a valuable project because it is a labor of love and it makes you get it out of your system.
Susan: I also think there's a lesson for all of us now in terms of living with fear and how you live with fear. Because once you experience something like this, you never feel perfectly safe again. IN a sense, that's what the country is going through as well. Learning to live with it and deal with it positively, as kelly has, is not only good therapy for the individual, but for us all.
New York, N.Y.:
In this time of national crisis, I see sterotypes becoming more powerful. Do you see a danger of us reverting to stereotypical expectations of the proper role for men and women in serving their country? If so, how can we avoid letting this trauma negate the steps towards equality (between the sexes and for people of all races/ethnicities) that we've made in the past few decades? P.S. Prof. Estrich: I really enjoyed your recent book, "Sex & Power."
Susan Estrich and Kelly St. John: Susan: Yes is the short answer. I worry about racial stereotypes and our conciousness of every other issue is being pushed to the back burner. And with the exception of Condi Rice, every picture I see is of men at the table. In the long run, we've got to remember that all the issues being pushed back are still important and ones that we can actually do something about.
Arlington, Va.:
What would you like viewers to keep in mind as they sit down to watch "Life 360" tonight?
Susan Estrich and Kelly St. John: Kelly: First off, I would want people to remember that most victims of rape are attacked by someone they know and I'd want parents to be aware that what happened to me is still very rare. That said, there are a lot of things to keep in mind about maintaining a healthy relationship with your children, communicating with them.
Alexandria, Va.:
Can Sept. 11th be considered a national "place in time"?
Susan Estrich and Kelly St. John: Kelly: Absolutely. I think there are -- it's funny how a very short time in your life can be a defining moment in life. I don't see how anyone who lived through the last month will ever forget where they were when this happened. There are turning points, you can work through them, but they still are defining.
Susan: You don't forget, you survive. And you change and move forward, but moments like that become part of your personal and collective history and shape our future. The larger point is not to let the bastards win. I felt strongly after I was raped to take all precautions, but to keep living and not lock myself in a room in the hopes of being safe. As a country, we are struggling to achieve that balance.
Atlanta, GA:
Dr. Estrich, you have such incredible legal training. Do you also have training in psychology?
Susan Estrich and Kelly St. John: Susan: Only from the endless effort to understand myself.
Philadelphia, Pa.:
The whole idea of fate and the randomness of events that forever change our lives is a topic that is one everyone's minds these days. The stories we hear about someone taking their son to school, being late for their job at the Wrld Trade Center on the day of the terror attacks resonates so strongly in each of us. It makes us question our actions and say "what if." Kelly, did you go through this same questioning exercise following your rape.
Susan Estrich and Kelly St. John: Kelly: Yes, I think that a lot of people do that. I found that was not a very fruitful exercise. Because on the other hand I could have gone through "why did I survive" and the other girl did not. Sometimes you have to just accept that you may never know what someone was thinking that day or you find you can't keep dwelling on that. YOu need to move forward.
Susan: Kelly's absolutely right. The "what ifs" don't help. We have to achieve acceptance.
Arlington, Va.:
Aren't our whole lives made up of such brief encounters that forever change us?
Susan Estrich and Kelly St. John: Susan: I think it's the lack of control that makes it so difficult. The sense that you can lock your car, your house, take reasonable precautions, but no one is perfectly safe. There is an element of lack of control in life and that's what we have to accept. We like to control things and make judgments ourselves.
Kelly: and at some level, life can also throw you really amazing surprises. At some level, you have to go along for the ride.
Susan: It's not the hand your dealt, it's how you play it. It's Kelly's courage in taking a horrible experience and turning it into an amazing story that will help other people.
Arlington, Va.:
Susan, what is the most significant random event that changed your life?
Susan Estrich and Kelly St. John: Susan: I guess in terms of utterly random it would be being raped. I lost my father at a young age and that was devastating. And it was just a few years after I was raped and it's the lesson of life -- that random events happen, sometimes good, sometimes terrible. But you can let them destroy you or figure out how to incorporate them.
Kelly: I would agree that the rape was the most random that shaped me. Especially being 14. It was sort of like an entry into adulthood. But there are so many things we don't even know are life-changing. If I'd gone to a different college, would I have met my husband? One thing is that I came to a point where I stopped wishing the rape hadn't happened and that's a good place to get to. You come to a place where you like who you are.
Susan; I agree. It's like deciding you want to be a different person. For both of us, though, it defined a workpath that is important and that might not have otherwise been open to us. And 20-some years later I feel in a funny way that I did win. He attacked me and was never found, but I've changed the law of rape in America.
Susan Estrich and Kelly St. John: Susan: Learning to live with fear and not having fear dictate your life is a lesson I learned, Kelly learned and as a country we're learning. But it's the reality of modern life.
Kelly: I think Life 360 is an exciting project. I haven't seen many things on TV that really tell stories the way the show is trying to do. Sort of telling stories from the bottom up, instead of from the top down. I'm very pleased that I've got a chance to be part of it. The way I wanted to tell this story is different than the way I see crime stories normally told. The people directly involved having the time and space to delve into the personal issues is great.
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