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Monday, Oct. 15, 2001; 1 p.m. EDT

Philip Kennicott, the classical music critic for The Washington Post, has served as music critic for the Detroit News and the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. He is a pianist and graduate of Yale.

Classical music is both one of the most established and most imperiled art forms in America: a mainstay of the cultural world, yet fraught with economic and aesthetic problems.

After a century of radical musical change, and two decades of increasing commercial exploitation, the art form has ceased to have the coherence, and cultural centrality, that it did in the time of Mozart and Beethoven. What sustains our appetite for a musical form which lives in the shadows of popular culture?

Below is a transcript.

Philip Kennicott: Welcome to the chat. There are few questions in line already, but send more. We rarely run out.

Washington: Mr. Kennicott:

I received a postcard announcing that the superb Choral Arts
Society was going to perform, in November, Philip Glass's
Symphony #5 (actually, a symphony-oratorio), subtitled
"Requiem, Bardo, Nirmanakay".

The previous evening, I had been relistening to Roger
Session's choral work "When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd", his
memorial on the deaths of Martin Luther King, Jr. and Robert
F. Kennedy. I had been thinking that one of Washington's fine
choruses should finally give the local premiere of that 30
year old work.

I wanted to ask your opinion of the musical values of these
two choral works, if you have yet formed one. I do recall from a
while back that you did not personally like Sessions's opera
"Montezuma". I happen to very much like both Sessions's works,
and have mixed feelings about Philip Glass's body of work -
both his operas and his symphonic-choral works.

Thank you.

Philip Kennicott: Sessions can be a difficult composer and if I remember right, my problem with Montezuma is based mostly on its rather rarefied tonal language and the violence of its gestures. But those reservations are a long way from diminishing my interest in Sessions' music. With Glass there aren't many surprises; but I've never regretted the time spent trying to understand Sessions even when, as with Montezuma, the music doesn't move me terribly. I would encourage any local chorus to give serious consideration to his work. That said, it's good that the Choral Arts Society is giving the new symphony, or oratorio, as you rightly describe. Glass is one of our important American composers, and it's important that we stay up to date with his musical output.

Boston. MA: What is your opinion about hiring minorities in the arts just for the sake of hiring minorities? A good example is the person which Classical 103.5 hired to do the 10-3 show. Does it serve any purpose to have untalented artists just for the sake of equal oppotunity in the arts? Would you go see a piano recital based on talent or quota?

Philip Kennicott: I'm not going to take the bait, and bait is the right word. The problem with Classical 103.5 is not any one on-air personality; it's the pervasive ignorance and vulgarity of their entire format. I don't the particular announcer whom you're singling out; and I doubt I'd be confident determing someone's race based solely on their speaking voice. But frankly, it's the pandering to American's worst fantasy of "fancy" living--cars, watches, art on the walls, etc.--that makes 103.5 unlistenable. I don't think this has anything to do with race.

As for what gets me to a recital, it's simple. Curiosity. And I'm as curious about what Awadagin Pratt, an African-American pianist, has to say, as I am about Peter Serkin, an American-American (isn't these labels a bit silly?).

Bethesda: I have been to the Kennedy Center 4 times in the last few weeks (Suzanne Farrell-zowie!), and the only sign I saw of any increased security on the KC's part was one sighting of a bored looking security guard in the lobby. I remember you said a few weeks ago that a KC spokesperson had basically blown off your enquiry about what they were doing to address the issue. Any indications they are taking the situation more seriously? It seems to me that as a highly visible and symbolic building with a public garage underneath they should be devoting a little thought to this.

Philip Kennicott: Thanks for your concern, and I share it. I post this question not because I have a better answer for it than I did last time, but because I think it is an important question, and one that the Kennedy Center should address. The Center is indeed a highly visible landmark. It is a memorial, just like the Lincoln Memorial or the Washington Memorial, but it's also a memorial with thousands of people in it every night. And many of those people are among this country's wealthiest or most politically influential. So I take the pledge to look into what the Kennedy Center has to say and not be put off by dismissive comments. And I'll have a better answer for you next time. Thanks.

Washington, DC: Are you sick to hear Michael Kamen's work on Band of Brothers?

Philip Kennicott: Wow. Kamen has struck again and I missed. The perils of not having cable television (directly related to living in a historic house which, it seems, doesn't deserve to have new holes drilled in it). So I missed Band of Brothers. I can't say I really regret it. As the same time, scoring background music for a TV series is really Kamen's ideal metier, so perhaps it isn't so bad. What did you think?

Silver Spring, MD: Why do big arts orginizations have such contempt for their audiences? WGMS never answers the phone or responds to their e mail. WETA never stops calling for money.
The NSO never gives souvenirs to the audience.I simply give my dollars and attention
to sports activities now. At least I feel appreciated.

Philip Kennicott: Let's make some distinctions. WGMS is a commercial station with a big audience; they survive by selling Volvos. They're mandate isn't to serve the public, but to make money. WETA is a public radio station, and they survive by raising money full time so that they can serve the public with music and news. Neither is an arts organization. Most arts organizations are run on a barebones budget and rarely do they have enough money to keep everyone happy. They certainly have plenty of smiles and gladhanding to spare when it comes to big donors, but that's to be expected; that's how they survive. The poor person who is supposed to answer the phone is probably overworked, stressed and just plain sick of dealing with the public. That's pretty much par for the course. I say cut them a little slack. Nobody's perfect. If you're getting lots of love at the ball park, it's because those are commercial sports ventures who know the exact profit return on showing that kind of love to their patrons. As for souvenirs, in Europe you have to pay for your concert program. In America, it's free. See? A souvenir.

Shaw, DC: Hi --
What can you tell us about the city's new
composer in resident, Stewart Wallace? I missed his percussion piece (we went the other night), but read on the web that he wrote the operas Where's Dick? and Harvey Milk. Couldn't find too much about his orchestra work. Do you know whether the Kennedy Center or the National symphony hired him?

Philip Kennicott: Wallace made a big splash with Harvey Milk, a few years back. The subject, about the life of the gay activist who was murdered in San Francisco because of his sexuality, was perfect not only as operatic fodder, but as a way of appealing directly to an audience that probably skews gay (or at least, it seems like it used to...). I didn't see the work, and the music didn't make a strong impression. I reviewed the percussion piece he did at the Drums Along the Potomac Festival, and gave it a mixed report. Interesting sounds, a strong sense of mood and atmosphere, but a lot of gimmickry (and a fairly simplistic harmonic spectrum). But he's a youngish composer and can clearly write well for orchestra. So let's keep an open mind and see what he does for the NSO.

DC: How much does it cost to commission a major symphonic work from an established composer?
Just curious.

Philip Kennicott: They're often commissioned by the minute and a major work from a major composer can cost tens of thousands or more. I wouldn't venture to guess what, say, John Adams gets for a half hour symphonic work; I expect it's a lot. Composers who are not so well known command lesser fees. Orchestras should be open, completely open, about these fees; it establishes trust with the audience.

Arlington, VA: I read the question with surprise from the earlier listener. Shannon Finney, who seems to be doing the 10-3 show now on WGMS has been a fixture for quite some time. Her knowledge is no worse than any of the others. (As you have pointed out, they are not exactly PhDs in Classical music) and she is a perfectly capable DJ. In fact, I had no clue she was black (not that it matters) until I saw her picture on the web page.

To give WGMS its due, it does give a taste of classical music to boomers and later who have outgrown top 40, but have little real knowledge. And let's face it, many warhorses are just that because they are great pieces of music. OK. They do have all the Lincoln ads and stuff - but believe it or not, it used to be much worse in the days when WGMS could charge the second highest prices for ad time in the area.

Philip Kennicott: Thanks for another perspective. Let me offer a small anecdote that explains why I find WGMS so galling. For several months I was without a CD player at home (I use one at work for reviewing) and relied on the radio receiver for my music. I found it was impossible to cook while listening to WGMS; the advertisements were so frequent and so inane that I had to turn the radio on an off--with hands covered in flour. Which has led to problems with my amp.

Re: Kamen: It's the usual string and choral swells, some string plucking that creates a vague artiness, mostly it's sappy Speilberg/Capra material.

Philip Kennicott: Thanks for the report from Cable TV land. "Vague artiness" is well put; vague is very LaLa land, and arty is not really art, but just the sense of being somewhat like art. Put the two together and you have a deadly aesthetic.

Columbia, MD:
Columbia, Maryland: I am a classically trained musician, both private
lessons as a child and at the college level(Piano, organ,
music direction). I also have a degree in education teaching
both music and early childhood education.
Presently, I am not teaching but am employed as a church
Music Director. My husband and I have also been NSO season
ticket holders for at least the past ten years or more. We
have also been privileged to live and travel extensively in Europe and
have attended classical concerts in such places as Salzburg,
Vienna, Stuttgart, Brussels, London, to name a few. These concerts
were presented by seasoned professionals and some were
amateur presentations. The reviews of the concerts that I was able to
read were always very fair and in most cases excellent
reviews of excellent performances.

Obviously, I have not been to every concert of the NSO that
you have reviewed, but I do have a question for you. We have
been to some of the concerts you have reviewed in the past
few years and have noticed many times that you have been
extremely critical of artists and/or the NSO when I heard the
same piece of music and did not agree with your assessment. In
fact, on many of these occasions, the audience did not agree
with you. Why, then, if you worry about this type of music not
having the same appreciation that it had in Mozart's time or
in Beethoven's time can you not be more positive in your reviews
instead of negative. The generations of young people and
children need to have more positive encouragement to be attentive to
the classics. When I was teaching (and I still do this with
my children's choir) I tried to present even the negative in a positive
attitude. You have a responsibility and the place to do this
in a newspaper that is read by many of our young people, including
the 'Kidspost'. I think there are many ways of presenting
things and not all of them negative. There can also be articles that go
behind the scenes to build interest. Is it possible to hope
for this kind of reporting for our National Symphony and the artists
who apear with them.

I would like to commend you on the more positive review you
wrote for the NSO's opening concert for the new season and
semi-positive review for the Drums Along The Potomac Thursday
evening concert, both of which I attended and thought to be
excellent.

Thank you.

Philip Kennicott: Thank you for taking so much time to express your concerns. I admire that you are a teacher and are so devoted to passing along your love of music. But while critics can teach (if they know something other people don't), they are not teachers. Nor are they responsible for perpetuating the art form. They are reporters and if the story is that the art form is failing, they have to write that story. When they intervene, to make case for something they feel important, they are switching roles and behaving more like advocates than observers. Nothing wrong with that--but it's all a matter of balance.

Critics, however, don't write for children; criticism is often negative, and that's a fact of the adult world. I leave it to other people to create fantasies for children.

Maryland: Wouldn't orchestra's being completely open about the fees they pay their conductors help establish trust with their audiences and communities?
I'm curious too.

Philip Kennicott: Yes, it would. And it's something that orchestras must eventually do. Right now they hide behind the pretense that they are private institutions funded with private money. But in fact, they are funded with charitable money, which though given privately, comes from a quasi public source--the money available to fund non profit institutions. Other non profits have moved toward transparency in their financial dealings; only the arts world, with its self-designated higher calling, insists on keeping as much of their book keeping as legally possible closed from scrutiny. Patrons who give money should demand to know what arts groups are paying; that's how trust is built.

DC: If you were to commission a major piece for the NSO, money not being a factor, what composer would you tap?

Philip Kennicott: Thomas Ades.

Washington, D.C.: I know that you don't like to "rate" orchestras, but "inquiring minds" want to know. How would you compare the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra with the NSO? Are the two comparable, or are there areas in which one excels?

Philip Kennicott: I've gone into this a lot, in past chats. I think the Baltimore Symphony, when it plays under its music director Yuri Temirkanov, is one of the finest orchestras in the country right now. The NSO is hampered by a lousy hall, and they can be very inconsistent. When Slatkin is engaged with the music, and when the music isn't run of the mill, they can play very well. But they hire a lot of mediocre guest conductors, squander too much time in dreary and under rehearsed festivals, and turn too often to the same composers and soloists. Go to Baltimore.

Maryland: -Philip Kennicott]...I do honestly believe that if
orchestra's turn to the same technique as, say, classical music
radio--surveys of what audiences want--to establish their aesthetic
agenda, they will end up in the same rubbish bin as, say, classical
music radio. No. Arts groups lead, they don't follow. And if anyone out
there really believes that programming recycled romanticism is anything
but a way station on the road to programming nothing new at all, they
are fooling themselves. As soon as orchestras say, okay, we won't do any
new music if you don't want us too, they will have signed the warrant of
their own irrelevancy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But you're still avoiding the question! How is an orchestra that plays
music almost no one wants to hear, "relevant" or not, going to stay in
business? You admit the shakiness of orchestras' finances on the one hand,
then urge them to commit financial suicide on the other!
Mr Kennicott: are you really so selfishly devoted to serialism that you
are willing to countenance the destruction of symphony orchestras left
and right to promote music which is by and large hateful to the concertgoing
public?

No one's saying "ban all new music" nor do I buy your strawman of
"recycled romanticism". Why think in terms of "-isms" anyway?
Certainly serialism has overstayed its welcome, well beyond "The
Man Who Came to Dinner", and neither academics nor critics can make it a viable
style. Why not just encourage composers to express their unique personalities without using
a tonal "scorecard" and encourage 21st Century Gershwins, Bernsteins, Coplands,
Bartoks, Barbers, Prokofievs, etc. just to name some successful 20th Century
icons who had their own unique voice and embraced diverse styles? The process
could well tolerate a few Glasses.

Regarding classical radio stations: at one time, before you came, WGMS did have
a regular feature devoted to contemporary music called "Music of our time".
Why don't you call them up and ask them why it didn't survive, or do you already
know the answer?

Philip Kennicott: I feel like we're trapped in an endless Rondo, so here's my theme for one more recapitulation. I don't care about isms any more than you seem to; nor am I arguing that serialism is somehow the best of new music. But it has been pushed out of the concert hall unfairly, but ideologues and zealots (remember the Corigliano screed in the NYTimes recently?). We need balance and diversity. Yes, give us the next Copland (especially if the next Copland takes her cue from Inscape, etc.). But let's have done with this academic tonalism that has become pervasive and inescapable. Or, at the least, let's have less of it.

Remember, orchestra's are businesses. They must survive like a business, but if they put survival ahead of their mandate--to create and recreate good music--why should we pay any attention to them?

Arlington, Va: Has Michael Kaiser had any impact on the symphony thus far? Do you expect him to have one?

Philip Kennicott: I think it's too early to tell (at least from where I sit). I have hopes, however, that he will improve things. It all depends on how much time he has to devote to the NSO, and whether he's willing to put his foot down now and again.

re cooking with philip: "hands covering in flour"? what were you cooking? just curious.

Philip Kennicott: Bread. When I was a boy I got strawberry jam on the b side of my Horowitz recording of the Liszt B minor sonata (the second of his recordings of that work). As an adult, I got dough on the knobs of my amp. Small disasters, both of them. But it costs a lot less to replace a recording than it does to get your amp fixed.

St Louis: re terrorism at the kennedy center: the widows of those "powerful and influential people" whose lives you've just endangered by drawing attention to them will thank you after they're gone. maybe some people will even miss you.
God Bless America! God bless John F. Kennedy!

Philip Kennicott: Why not end on a sober note. I'm afraid that, as a society, we will probably need to think more like terrorists if we are going to defend against them. The horrifying thing, for me, about September 11, was the macabre imagination of the perpetrators. The German composer Stockhausen got in trouble for remarks celebrating the creativity of the act and rightly so because it wasn't creative. It was destructive, the very opposite of what artists do. But it required imagination, to see the destructive possiblities in using every day objects to horrifying ends. We must, unfortunately, train ourselves to think this way, even as we deplore people who both think and act this way. Because if we don't, they will always imagine something worse than we can.

You're right. God Bless America.

Philip Kennicott: It's two o'clock. Have I ever mentioned how much I enjoy these sessions?

See you back in two weeks.

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