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Bush's Agriculture Nomination
Ken Cook
President and Founder, Environmental Working Group
Friday, June 1, 2001; 2 p.m. EDT
Since taking office President Bush has found himself at odds with many environmental groups over drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, CO2 emission standards and arsenic levels in drinking water.
Now a new issue has risen with Bush's nomination of Tom Dorr as undersecretary of agriculture for rural development. A 1999 video of the nominee, in which he states that certain counties in Iowa seem to be successful in part because of their lack of ethnic diversity, has sparked concerns from civil rights groups around the country.
Ken Cook is the founder and president of the Environmental Working Group (EWG). EWG is a non-partisan environmental research and watchdog organization that conducts computer investigations and provides data to more than 400 public interest groups on issues from practices of the chemical industry, pesticides, drinking water, air pollution and campaign contributions.
The transcript follows.
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Ken Cook: Good afternoon everyone. Thanks for joining. I'll start the discussion by replying to a couple of the questions already posted.
Plano, Tex.:
What is your opinion on the peanut grower program that requires permits to grow peanuts for human consumption in the U.S. that so restrict supply that the cost of a poor family's staple food, peanut butter, is nearly two times what it would be if the peanut growing was unregulated. Since U.S. farmers grow a large number of peanuts for export sales, clearly there is no need to protect the supply of peanuts this way. Shouldn't a free market president eliminate this socialist program?
The same argument applies to U.S. sugar growing restrictions.
Ken Cook: I would not characterize these programs as "socialist." But I think you make important points about the inequities built into these programs. Just for starters, why should peanut and sugar producers get these guaranteed prices, and not, say, apple growers or cab drivers or...
Then too is the question of how prices affect food prices, and the impacts on low income Americans in particular. One would think that a president committed to letting the market work in so many ways--like protecting the environment, "solving" our energy problems--would indeed take these programs on.
Plano, Tex.:
Who are the major supporters funding your environmental organization?
Ken Cook: Our research and public education work is supported by a wide array of foundations. Funders of specific projects are listed in our major reports.
Austin, Tex.:
Sir,
Have you seen the videotape of the seminar in which Bush's nominee made the comments?
Ken Cook: Yes, we have seen it, in its entirety--the full two-tape record of the seminar. And of course we've seen the section that features Mr. Dorr's views about diversity, his support for giant hog and grain farms, etc.
You can see his remarks too--posted on the Washington Post web site.
Somewhere, USA:
Are you just looking for some reason to hurt Bush? It is not as if there is any love loss there.
Ken Cook: We didn't nominate Mr. Dorr. President Bush did. If he's been "hurt" by this nominee and his comments, then perhaps a review of the nomination is in order. But no one has heard anything but defense of this nominee from the White House, and a completely disingenuous claim that Mr. Dorr's remarks are being taken "out of context". That's false. Mr. Dorr created the context himself by his remarks. Check them out--the Post has them in full in the video, or go to our web site and read the transcript.
Virginia:
What power would this agriculture post have? Is sounds fairly low down the totem pole.
Ken Cook: It is Undersecretary for Rural Development, so it isn't merely ceremonial. And many policy experts, including members of congress, would like to see even more investment in rural development, since more and more rural areas rely less on agriculture than formerly and non-farm development is vital. We consider it an important post that should be even more important in terms of funding and portfolio than it is now.
Alexandria, Va.:
Environmental groups are being intellectually dishonest when they (falsely) claim that automakers are refusing to make more fuel efficient vehicles. The fact is that there are dozens of fuel-efficient cars out there on dealer lots, but people continue to favor pick-ups, SUVs, and minivans. If you're going to appoint yourself America's lifestlye police, at least be honest about it and say up front that you want to dictate to people what they can and cannot drive.
Ken Cook: Are you sure you're not writing in from Detroit? If automakers put their minds to it, we could have SUVs and minivans that get much better mileage. The Big Three have a sorry histroy of claiming that safety and efficiency standards were undesirable or would even put them out of business--and they've been wrong time and again.
I don't expect anyone from Japan to be writing in. They're too busy making the cars we'll all be driving in a few years.
Washington, D.C.:
What's the big deal about this? I'm a pretty PC liberal, but come on, what he said isn't particularly offensive. I'd guess most sociologists would agree that people who are alike have an easier time working together -- are we not allowed to state obvious truths anymore?
Ken Cook: But Mr. Dorr didn't say that people in those "successful" counties "have an easier time working together." He said their success can be traced to homogenous ethnicity and religion. That's something very different--and was not a "sociaological" observation.
Austin, Tex.:
Sir,
In response to a direct and reasonable question as to your motives with respect to hurting our President, you responded "We didn't nominate Mr. Dorr. President Bush did."
How do you respond to the claim that this is hyper-spin and disingenuous?
You were not asked who nominated Dorr.
Why not answer the question directly and honestly and say that your agenda is in contradiction with President Bush's agenda and that you are out to get Bush and that you will use any opportunity to accomplish this goal, even if this "opportunity" has nothing to do with your stated eco-extreme agenda?
Ken Cook: Sorry. I stepped away a minute to hug a tree.
Where we disagree with President Bush on policy--and nominations are policy--we say so. And a nominee who favors giganitic hog farms of the sort the North Carolina is wishing they'd passed on--or regulated--is certainly bringing up an issue we care about. Ditto for gigantic grain farms that would swallow up family operations.
Arlington, Va.:
How do you feel about Bush's National Park funding plan?
Ken Cook: This question I will duck--because we don't work on parks issues. I'd refer you to the National Parks Conservation Association for an expert opinion.
Alexandria, Va.:
It sounds like you are using these a vague and rather innocuous remark to torpedo a nominee who's policies you do not agree with. Am I wrong?
Ken Cook: Didn't that Russion sub go down because of a faulty torpedo they detonated themselves?
Mr. Dorr: Dive! Dive!
Alexandria, Va.:
What more can you tell us about Mr. Dorr in regard to his thoughts and feelings toward USDA's role in agriculture?
Ken Cook: Not even Mr. Dorr can do that now--he's under pre-confirmation wraps. But you could usefully check the Des Moines Register web site. He's had plenty to say in the paper over the years.
Austin, Tex.:
Thank you for your time today.
Since you have seen the entire videotape, can you give us your interpretation of the so-called diversity comments?
Also, can you dispute that in at least some ways, in any business operation, shared and common perspectives offer advantages?
Ken Cook: We've posted our reaction at www.ewg.org.
Again, Mr. Dorr didn't say anything nearly so nuanced--or truistic--as you're suggesting.
Austin, Tex.:
Why would you accuse someone who disagrees with you of "being from Detroit?" Isn't this a classic example of the kind of arrogant, snide and cynical "spin" we've come to expect from the eco-extreme crowd?
Why would you not accept that there are people out here who do not work for car companies who happen to disagree with you and who do not support your agenda?
Ken Cook: Dude. Lighten up.
I did detect in your question, however, that you disagree with...the "eco-extreme crowd" and that you think I'm a member.
Does anyone know how to get sprouts and tofu out of a computer keyboard?
Louisiana:
It is disgraceful that this man is being nominated for a management level post in the USDA. The USDA just settled a suit with black farmers being denied the same programs as white farmers in rural Southern counties. I think it is fine if like people like working together better. But what minorities know is that it often degenerates into an exclusionary thing. The USDA subsidizes many farmers growing crops across the agricultural spectrum. But let anyone start talking about affirmative action or fairness and everyone is in an uproar. It is beyond tiring.
Ken Cook: Which explains why I need more coffee....
Austin, Tex.:
Thanks, I too just stepped away ... to cut down a tree.
See how that feels?
Look, if your agenda claims to be against "giganitic hog farms" and "gigantic grain farms", that's great. Take Dorr and Bush on by focusing on those issues.
By pumping the media with your spin about Dorr's comments about the relative benefits of homogeneity, you make obvious that you're not content to fight on the issues. You're out to get someone, at any cost.
Explain to me how I'm wrong here.
And, please do tell, just how big do those farms have to be to be unacceptable to your eco-organization? 10 hogs? 100 hogs? 1000 hogs? I think that's a fair demand that you at least be willing to quantify your eco-demands.
Ken Cook: We do make these points about pollution and the need to support family-scale farming in our work, rather regularly.
We've also analyzed farm program implementation (unfair and adverse) impacts on minority farmers (in a 1993/4 report). We think that's an issue worth fighting for too.
Alexandria, Va.:
RE: Fuel economy standards and safety. You're wrong that safety would not be compromised. Even National Highway Traffic Safety Administration studies show that with lighterweight vehicles, safety is compromised. Even if we were all driving little cars, you can't change the size of those trees and bridge abutments. And let's say Detroit could make more fuel efficient cars. Why wouldn't they? Wouldn't it make sense from a business standpoint for Company A to make a 50 MPG SUV to gain competitive advantage over Company B? Your argument falls apart.
Ken Cook: I'm sorry if my response was confusing. Detroit has recently said they can (and will) make more fuel-efficient SUVs, with Bill Ford putting his company on record to do so (enraging other automakers). But until they announced they were doing it, they were announcing it was impossible.
Washington, D.C.:
Have you ever met Tom Dorr? Tom Dorr has been a leader in agriculture and economic development in Iowa for several decades. Should one comment -- taken out of context -- be used groups like yours to destroy his career?
Ken Cook: If you've seen the tape, you know his comment was not taken out of context.
And if it's an innocent comment that does not reflect objectionable views about diversity, explaining or defending it should be a piece of cake.
Syracuse, N.Y.:
I've read the coverage on the Dorr debacle
and it seems like a lot of hoopla to me.
More to the point, Mr. Dorr argues rightly
that large farms and concentrated animal
operations are the most competitive, which is
what America needs in a global economy.
Large farms also pollute less because they
use the latest technologies.
Ken Cook: If these big hog factories are so competitive, why are they going to USDA's "Risk Management Agency" now for government subsidies? If the big farms are so efficient and competitive, why do they insist on getting huge checks from taxpayers every year?
Can we afford more "success" like this in agriculture?
Fairfax County, Va.:
What are the chances of eliminating farm subsidies? I don't see how you can say they are anything but socialist when we taxpayers are bilked to artificially inflate market prices that drive up profits for a select few while driving up costs for poor people, as Plano mentioned. It seems to me it would be in the public interest for your group to fight to eliminate subsidies for peanuts, sugar, and yes, especially Jesse Helms' beloved tabacky.
Ken Cook: This is a large and complex question, but our view is that we do need a government role supporting agriculture and rural areas. We just happen to think there are better ways to provide that support--such as investing more in conservation, rural development, and focusing support on family farms most in need of it.
Edge City:
Dude
Not only am I in strong agreement with your views, I am amused by your deft responses. Where do I send money for your righteous cause?
A Wannabe Tree Hugger
Ken Cook: My personal account in Aruba is best.
You can donate through our website (www.ewg.org) but there are lots of great environmental groups to support. Go nuts!
Arlington, Va.:
I have heard that Mr. Dorr has spun a rather negative personal perspective of U.S. farmer cooperatives in the past. Is that true or can you comment on that?
Ken Cook: Haven't seen anything on that.
Alexandria, Va.:
Did you write a memo at the beginning of the Clinton administration that advocated not appointing any agriculture leaders to the Agriculture Department because President Clinton fared so poorly in the agriculture community?
Ken Cook: Nope. We wrote a report that said the Clinton Administration should broaden the constituency for USDA to include ALL rural Americans instead of just the farmers who (mostly) voted against him.
He didn't take us up on that idea. One of many.
Alexandria, Va.:
How will the forthcoming change in chairmanship of the Senate Agriculture Committee affect the Dorr hearing process?
Ken Cook: Hard to say. I presume both Democrats and Republicans are reviewing his nomination, but they haven't said much about it yet publicly. I think you could hardly ask for a more fair-minded chairman than the current one (Sen. Lugar) or the forthcoming one (Sen. Harkin). So whatever the process it will be open and fair.
Plano, Tex.:
Has the Bush Administration put forth an opinion on Organic Farming Regulation, and labeling requirements?
Has the Bush Administration commented on the refusal of food producers to accept requirements that genetic modified foods be labeled as such? There seems to be no justification for not informing the public to me.
Ken Cook: I seem to recall that the organic regs will go forward. I also don't know if the Administration has declared itself on GMO labeling--which we favor, though let's face it (this is going to be an agricultural metaphor), the turkey is out of the barn with 60+ percent of food already having GMO content.
Rosslyn (not many trees here to hug):
Ken,
I find Dorr's comments reprehensible. The New York times noted yesterday that his nomination is on hold, until Sen. Harkin has a chance to weigh the man's previous works and deeds against his disgusting beliefs (I'm paraphrasing). What do you think the chances are that a Democratic senate will give this bigot a pass? Will Harkin step up to the plate and do the right thing here?
Ken Cook: Clearly we were disturbed by Mr. Dorr's remarks, too. Do we think he should be confirmed? Not if he doesn't completely disavow his offensive comments. At this stage, however, the traditions of the Senate are holding sway: it's time for review, not public comment. We'll just have to see.
Takoma Park, Md.:
Jeepers! You seem to be getting shelled today, so here's a "friendly" post to balance things out. Have you ever seen the film "Soylent Green?" I re-watched it again recently and it was downright eerie. It was made in 1973 but all of the topics it addresses -- overpopulation, global warming, and the destruction of the ecosystem -- seem to be happening. With the genetic engineering of many foods (and additives that the USDA allows to be vaguely described as "natural flavor"), one wonders how soon it will be before we start seriously addressing what Detective Thorn (Charlton Heston) figures out at the end. Does the EWG have a stand on overpopulation?
Ken Cook: First, that was the last time Charlton Heston made sense.
Second, we think the Cairo population conference formulations about populaiton and development make a great deal of sense: family planning, education of young girls, more sensible consumption of resources to grow the world economy intelligently and more equitably.
Detroit, Mich.:
Egads! The horror! Mr. Cook is on to our scheme! We have the 200 mile-per-gallon flex capacitor in the basement and somehow he's found out about it! What will we do now? If we release it in the marketplace, we'll trounce our competitors and all be rich! We must keep it under tight security! Find out who leaked it to the Environmental Working Group and fire that person!!!
Ken Cook: Lee! Lee Iacocca! Been wanting to meet you my whole life. I loved how you claimed that airbags would never work--and then hawked minivans and other cars by bragging about the air bags!
Love your new electric bikes!
Ken Cook: Thank you one and all for the lively exchange. Look forward to the next time. KC
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