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America At War:
Potomac Confidential
With Marc Fisher
Post Metro Columnist
Thursday, Nov. 15, 2001; Noon, EST
Smoldering piles of rubble, biological weapons in our mail and the apparently improving fortunes of the war effort in Afghanistan are making for some emotionally rocky times. As Thanksgiving approaches, what are you thankful for? How close to normal will your Turkey Day be? What's the new normalcy in your household?
This week's columns looked at the impact of terrorism and fear on our cultural lives, at the fright spread by Monday's New York plane crash, and at a neighborhood dispute in Fairfax County. Let's hear what you have to say on those and other issues, today on Potomac Confidential.
A transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Arlington:
Disturbing column today. The trouble with anonymous attacks is that they not only hurt the victim, but the rip the rest of the community apart, too. It reminds me of several acts of anonymous bigotry at college 10 years ago -- student victims. The community invariably turned itself inside out trying to figure out how "we could do this to our own." Sometimes, it WAS another student being evil. Other times, it was "pranksters" from two counties over, and still others, the "bigot" was someone from the victim's own ethnic group who was just messed in the head.
But when you don't know who actually did it, everyone assumes the worst, because that's what it feels like -- and it might be true. So the coward who wrote that letter has hurt more than one family. What's the neighborhood to do?
Marc Fisher: It is a tough one. In this case, the number of possible culprits is quite small; there are only about six houses close enough to the Nguyen home to have had any sense of aggrievement. But I don't get the sense that the police care to get involved, and since the prosecutors on the case didn't even return calls from some of the neighbors nor from me, I can only assume that they'd rather not be bothered either. So the neighbors are on their own, and the impact is indeed poisonous.
Falls Church, Va.:
Mark,
Concerning your article in today's Post, I
am a resident of Broyhill Park. My
husband and I have lived here for almost
three years. I am active in the local civic
>association, and was appalled by the
incident you relate in today's column.
Sadly, however, I was not surprised.
There are many backward-thinking
people I've encountered in our
community, but to our defense, there are
just as many forward-thinking,
open-minded people. Our civic
association makes an effort to print flyers
about our association in English,
Spanish and Vietnamese: consequently,
we saw a large increase in the number of
houses joining our association and
paying their dues this year. We just held
our annual Halloween Parade with the
neighboring Westlawn Civic Association:
we had about 75 children and adults
show up to march through Broyhill Park. It
was a big success: local representatives
Bob Hull and Penny Gross came to show
their support of our community. Every year
we hold an Easter Egg Hunt at the local
church, which is an
Episcopalian/Vietnamese church. That
event also is always popular with families
regardless of their background.
I do want to dispel the comment that
"This is a neighborhood with no
closeness, no camaraderie." True, many
people chose not to participate in our
community events, but just as many
people do chose to participate, whether
they have kids, live alone, or just have a
dog (like we do).
I am ashamed that such people live in
our community and would chose to attack
Mr. Nguyen through forgery. But Broyhill
Park isn't all bad; we as a community will
strive to put this incident in the past, and
will make even more efforts to reach out
to everyone.
Marc Fisher: Glad to hear it; Broyhill Park is indeed a fairly close knit community, with a very active and creative community association, and I'm pleased to hear of your outreach activities.
Washington, D.C.:
I was amazed and shocked by your article this morning. It truly saddens me, and infuriates me at the same time, especially on the heels of Sept. 11 and unprecedented displays of patriotism, that someone could be still be so racist in this wonderful country of ours. When will people learn that "America" does NOT exclusively mean "white"?
Marc Fisher: No time soon, most likely. And if you need any proof of that, check out this next post:
Northwest Washington, D.C.:
Mr. Fisher, in your column about falling theater attendance, I was struck that at least three of the four people you cited are Jewish. This is indicative of the overrepresentation by Jews in the top ranks of theater and the arts especially the creative end. Locally, this includes, besides the ones you mentioned, such people as Michael Kahn at the Shakespeare Theater, Joy Zinoman at Studio Theater, Wendy Goldberg at Arena Stage, and Howard Shalwitz at Woolly Mammoth. One could say that since Jews finance a good deal of the arts, that they should make the decisions on what is presented. But if a more diverse group was involved, there might be more patronage even in difficult times like these. Some may take offense at this, but if theater productions were being filtered through the equally narrow prism of Christian whites, there would be a good deal of discussion about it.
Marc Fisher: Wow. I didn't realize that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was selling quite as well here in NW DC as it is over in the Middle East.
I have no idea what the faith is of all the people I quoted in that column. But let's say you're right about their religion. So what? Do you check the religion of the authors of the books you read and the TV shows you watch before you decide to partake? How about the waiters who serve you in restaurants or the person who delivers your mail? And I do thank you for tossing in the bit about the Jews financing "a good deal of the arts." The anonymity of the web is so empowering to people with your views, isn't it? You might want to check out the new production of Shylock at Theater J, opening this week; it might get you thinking.
Clifton, Va.:
It is nice that these groups go and help poor countries but it is extremely arrogrant to go to another country, especially a Moslem country, and try to convert people to Christianity. Obviously this German-based group failed to take into account the culture and history of Afghanistan and also the history of conflict between Christianity and Islam. I would be upset too if some Christian group tried to convert me from Catholicism to some Christian sect like the Baptists or some other evangelical Christian sect.
Marc Fisher: I can certainly see that the arrival of a group of westerners pushing their religion might upset some Muslims, just as people in this country get bent out of shape when proselytizing missionaries come our way, whether they be 7th Day Adventists, Scientologists, Mormons or other groups. But to arrest, convict and threaten such missionaries with death seems rather extreme, don't you think?
Ventura, Calif.:
Mark,
Could you please clarify for me why the Bush administration keeps telling us that we are at war when there has been no formal declaration from the Congress? I have a hard time trying to put in perspective the roll of government when we are at War and other action that involves U.S. troops.
Marc Fisher: Sadly, the act of declaring war--a function reserved for Congress by the Constitution--seems a thing of the past. After Vietnam, there was an attempt to restrict a president's ability to wage war without a formal declaration. But presidents since then have generally ignored the law, and in the case of the Gulf War and this war, there were congressional resolutions that gave the sense that the legislators were behind the executive, even if no declaration is forthcoming.
United Kingdom:
Does America really feel that bombing and murdering innocent people help to halt terrorism across the world? And will Bush think twice about selling weapons to known terrorists in the future or will he learn his lesson about this situation the West has caused?
Marc Fisher: What you call "bombing and murdering innocent people" is what has been known for thousands of years as "war." In war, the object is to inflict such enormous pain on the enemy that they give up; in the modern version of war, that involves using bombs to kill people. It's not nice and it is morally troublesome. But in this case, it is hard to see any alternative. This is truly a case of kill or be killed.
As for selling weapons to bad guys, I think it's clear from the creation of the "coalition" that's backing this war that we continue to make our bed with some very bad characters, and I'm sure that will come back to haunt us, as it has again and again.
Arlington, Va.:
Is spelling another casualty of the war? "No trucks PASS 2nd Street" says the sign that greets all who enter D.C. from the Roosevelt Bridge. Must we endure this until Osama is captured?
Marc Fisher: Lousy spelling is not a wartime special, but a staple of life in the big city. Every day for many years, I have driven past a D.C. Public Works sign that asks motorists to "Yield to Pedstrains."
"Warshington":
I was driving between trout streams in Pennsylvania on Monday when I heard on NPR about the crash. I felt a million miles away from D.C. and NYC at that time. I felt safe.
I plan on spending my TThanx giving with family, hearing live music two consecutive nights at the 9:30 Club, and finding time for some more fishing.
How will you spend yours?
Marc Fisher: Sounds like a good plan. I'll be with family too, and we'll try to make time to get out of the city and decompress. Though that will likely involve communing with a few million of our closest friends in that lovely meadow called I-95.
D.C.:
I'm not in favor of trying to convert others to my religion (UU heathen), and definitely not in favor of others trying to convert me. But a polite "No, thank you" usually deals with the problem quite sufficiently, without need for imprisonment or threats of execution.
Marc Fisher: What a radical notion!
Wiredog:
Marc, the sad fact is that some people in the Middle East think that arresting and executing people for proselytizing a different faith is not extreme and is, in their view, reasonable.
Not just the Middle East, I've run into a few "Christians" who think that other faiths should be "vigorously suppressed", as they say.
Marc Fisher: There's trouble all over. Though we should also take time to consider that the president's early and strong efforts to prevent any backlash against American Muslims has been largely successful. That says something about tolerance in this society.
McLean, Va.:
Marc,
Ewww, ewww, ewww, regarding your article this morning. I hope they find whoever is behind this, and punish them severely for wasting county time and slandering people. I have to think though that people in the neighborhood must have their ideas about who is behind this. I grew up in the county, and you always have a sense as to who is behind whatever is the latest thing to get in a tizzy about. Pathetic.
Marc Fisher: People there have suspicions, but not much in the way of hard evidence, and the last thing they need is to ostracize the wrong people.
Broyhill Park, Va.:
Hi, I'm a current Broyhill Park resident of 13 years, 47-years-old with 4 children. Eleven of these were spent living at 3219 Dye Drive. I still live in Broyhill Park just around the corner on Graham Road. I'm deeply disapointed in a small minority of residents in my neighborhood who harbor ill will against any of our neighbors. I know Mr. Hennessey and his wife and never ever have known them to anything but friendly to EVERYONE. While I don't personaly know Mr. Ngueyen and his family, I remember when they moved in. Friendly, soft-spoken, neat people. A welcome addition to any neighborhood.
As a former neighborhood watch and civic association vice president, my wife and I did hear some grumbling at civic meetings about "the change in the neighborhood". We found them offensive then as we do now. Shame on these people.
Marc Fisher: This sort of thing is by no means limited to Broyhill Park; we see it in many, if not most, neighborhoods that experience rapid and dramatic demographic change. But there are many communities that manage that change well, and maintain property values and school quality. No one has to be friends with anyone they don't like, and there are times when immigrants move in and the language and cultural barriers make it very hard to be close as neighbors. But none of that comes close to excusing the kind of behavior I wrote about today.
Washington, D.C.:
The comment that disturbed me the most was at the end of your column, from an elderly resident of the community: "There are a lot of ethnics living here now, and they're fine." This gentlemen probably thinks that he's being forward-thinking, but he's just perpetuating the "us and them" mentality.
The whole concept of "ethnic" is very interesting to me. I am the child of eastern European immigrants, so I consider myself ethnic, even though I have blonde hair and blue eyes. Mr. Nguyen's children and grandchildren will always be considered more "ethnic" than my descendants because of their skin color. Methinks "ethnic" is simply a euphemism for dark skin.
Marc Fisher: Sometimes it refers to skin color, though most often I hear it to describe language differences.
D.C.:
Marc,
Overrepresentation of Jews in the arts?
Well, geez, get the EEOC to fire some of those people. Welcome to the Monkey House!
Marc Fisher: Come to think of it, is there ever a time that "overrepresentation" of any group in any legal activity is a bad thing?
Alexandria, Va. :
I couldn't resist going to my trusty U.S. Statistical Almanac after the post about Jews and the arts. I won't waste breath on how awful it was -- you put it quite well. But according to the Almanac, among people who profess a religious leaning in the U.S., more than half belong to a Christian denomination, while about 3 percent report themselves as Jewish. If, indeed, Jews finance a large share of the arts (I don't know), it means their philanthropic activities are far out of proportion to their relative share of the U.S. population.
Marc Fisher: Seems to me from reading the lists of donors that the biggest contributors to the arts are foundations and businesses. Overrepresented, surely.
Downtown D.C.:
About the Westerners just released from jail in Afghanistan: There's missionaries and there's missionaries. One group sees their primary job as converting sinners, and will use some form of "good works" as a way to get their foot in the door to do that. The other group sees feeding the hungry, working with refugees, manning hospitals, etc., as doing what God commanded them to do, with proselytizing of secondary or less importance. These folks are inspired by their faith and will certainly tell you about it if you ask, but think the best way to serve God and their own spiritual needs is to minister to man's most basic earthly needs. It's always sounded like the German and Australian and American Christians we've heard about lately in Afghanistan are in the latter group. At least, that's what the devout Moslems they've worked with, and who weren't arrested, have said.
Marc Fisher: Excellent point. There was a remarkable piece on MSNBC a week or so ago profiling a Christian missionary who has given his life over to caring for Muslim children in Afghanistan. The man made a point of saying that he never discusses Christianity with the people he helps. He is following the commands of his faith, and that fulfills his purpose on earth, and that is enough for his spirit.
D.C.:
I'd agree with Wiredog -- I've met quite a few Christians who think:
1. Public Christian prayer is good and acceptable, and should be forced on children in public schools. Prayer of any other religion is demon worship, and how dare anyone ask their children to worship demons?
2. Christians have the right to have anything they find offensive (Halloween, Harry Potter, etc.) banned. On the other hand, Christian statements of belief must be posted everywhere or the country will sink into moral decay. Anyone offended by them is being PC and should be suppressed.
3. Christian myth is science. Scientifically-backed theories are religious myths. Other religions' stories are irrelevant.
4. Sex is evil. Any mention thereof, even to save lives, is wrong.
Etc. Etc. We have our own Taliban, people. Thank the Gods they're not in complete control ... yet.
Marc Fisher: Well, we certainly have our fundamentalists in this country, and they are not at all shy about trying to shove their beliefs down the throats of the rest of us, but I wouldn't compare them to the Taliban, not by a long stretch. There is a huge difference between using the political system to press peacefully for your views and blowing up ancient artworks or whipping people in the street because they don't follow your narrow brand of spirituality.
NoVa:
Mr. Fisher:
Has the media been so cowed by the radical right's accusations of "card carrying member of the ACLU" that it is left to William Safire (no lefty liberal he) and Richard Cohen to voice the "only" opposition to the wholesale trampling of basic American rights?
Getting up from your seat to go to the bathroom on approach to National Airport may not be a right, but confidential communication with counsel and trial by jury most certainly are. Must we stoop to the level of petty dictators in order to defeat them? Even the Nazis were given a trial at Nuremberg. Where are our political "leaders"?
Marc Fisher: Seems to me most of the objections to the new military trials rules are being argued exactly where you say they're missing--in the media. There are indeed certain civil liberties that get curtailed in wartime, but those limits should be minimal and the government should have to make an ironclad case to get them approved, and they ought to come with a definite sunset time attached. In the case of the military tribunals that will handle non-citizen cases, there's been virtually no congressional oversight; Ashcroft's move should be inspected by Congress and the courts, and tossed out if it's overly broad.
Alexandria, Va.:
On a recent trip overseas, I ran into a group of American teenagers who were going to be missionaries to France. That's a gig I want.
Marc Fisher: Yes, when I lived in Germany, it was always amusing to see the young American Mormons on their missionary year abroad, bicyling up to the bakeries for their morning fruit tarts and brioche. I guess there is such a thing as cushy missionary work.
Washington, D.C.:
I learned this week that the Taliban banned kite-flying. Now banning TV/music I understand in a way -- not that I agree, but I at least understand the twisted logic behind it. But kites? How on earth are kites evil?
Marc Fisher: I saw that picture in the paper of the boy flying his kite for the first time in years and it was almost as powerful as the video of the men lining up to shave their beards. I dunno, maybe kites were considered a symbol of that evil western freedom to soar.
Rosslyn:
Marc,
Do you ride Metro with any regularity? I am wondering where you stand on the issue of dealing with folks who violate Metro policy and eat food in transit. This is getting to be a very obnoxious trend, and the scofflaws must be stopped! Bob Levey advises us to confront the offender and demand he/she cease and desist; Dr. Gridlock suggests we callM etro police and let them handle it. What say you?
Marc Fisher: Put me on the spot, will you? I yield to no one in my admiration of Bob Levey, and I am a big fan of Metro's no-food policy (I grew up sharing the NYC subways with more rats than humans), but I don't like the idea of passenger vigilantes. So I'll split the difference and say we should ask the offenders politely to get rid of the food (many are tourists and simply don't know), but not demand anything. Then call Metro cops if the offenders refuse. (Also, there's a new problem with making such a request: Now that Metro has panicked and removed all the garbage cans, where would a lawabiding person toss his illegal foodstuffs?)
Washington, D.C.:
So did the Mormon missionaries in Germany wear short-sleeved white dress shirts and black clip-on ties like they do here in D.C?
Marc Fisher: Yep, the whole get up, including those black generic bicycles, which look like they were made in 1955. I want one of them.
MetroCenter:
Marc -- Thanks for your column this morning. I live on Camp Alger Ave. past Broyhill Park and I was disappointed to hear about harrassment in my own neighboroohd. I hope your article will spur support for both families involved.
I will spend Thanksgiving in Michigan gaining a little perspective on life as I watch my
inlaws lovingly care for their severely disabled son as they selflessly have for 22 years. And they are thankful to do it.
Marc Fisher: I hope so too. Thanks for telling us about your Thanksgiving--that's a perspective we could all stand to hear.
Washington, D.C.:
Re: "Come to think of it, is there ever a time that "overrepresentation" of any group in any legal activity is a bad thing?"
Of course, becuase with overrepresentation comes underrepresentation.
Marc Fisher: True, but underrepresentation is meaningless unless it is accompanied by illegal or immoral barriers. If other factors are equal, overrepresentation generally indicates greater effort or drive, which are things any society ought to value.
Chantilly, Va.:
Marc: I wonder what the person who is so upset about the "overrepresentation" of Jews in the arts thinks about the overrepresentation of blacks on the Redskins and Wizards and of Canadians on the Caps.
These people are pathetic.
Marc Fisher: It's hard to think of any area of life in which some group is not overrrepresented.
Washington:
How about "overrepresentation" of white males in corporate board rooms? Or fundamental Christians in government? Or Democrats on the Arlington County board? Those aren't ever considered bad, are they?
Marc Fisher: Well, they are by some people, but I take your point.
D.C.:
There's a reason why Jews are "overrepresented" in many areas -- medicine, arts, successful businesspersons, etc., -- because, as a group, Jews tend to work hard and value education over everything else.
Jews are an asset to our society. Always have been. Bless 'em, I say.
And no, I'm not Jewish.
Marc Fisher: Well, I know plenty of Jews who are neither successes nor value education, so I'm uncomfortable with the generalization, but I appreciate the comment.
In response to NW D.C.'s post::
Hey, what my IT professor told me IS true: any idiot can use the Web.
Marc Fisher: That goes for all of us.
Washington, D.C.:
I was neither amazed nor shocked by your column today. There are plenty of evil people in the world today. I would not jump to the conclusion that it is a White person (as an earlier submitter seems to). There are often strong emotional resentments between other racial groups and Asians.
Marc Fisher: Maybe, but the Nguyens are the only non-native white family on the block.
"Warshington":
You a canned cranberry sauce man or the real deal?
Marc Fisher: I like them both, to the chagrin of my wife, who insists on the real deal. In fact, I like them both on the same plate, so I can savor the contrast in textures. What I cannot stand is the introduction of nuts and alien fruits into the cranberry sauce. There are certain things in life that are meant to be taken in their purity.
Woodley Park, Washington, D.C.:
Hi Marc,
According to the article in today's paper, the Washington Historical Society is selling the Heurich Mansion House Museum on the open market, pending their move to the new City museum slated for the old Carnegie Library. This means the city will be losing one of the very few Victorian house museums open to the public. We have plenty of 18th century house museums, Decatur house, Tudor Place, the Octagon House, etc., but a major part of this city's development occurred during the late 19th century and the Heurich mansion is a perfect example of a "non-Embassized" robber baron home. Most of the others have been turned into embassies and think tank headquarters, and thus are closed to the public.
I understand that the WHS cannot be expected to maintain two facilities, but why don't they sell it with some kind of preservation/public access easement, so that when a buyer is found, they'll have to allow public visits at least a couple of times a year? We've already lost the Alice Pike Barney house on Massachusetts Avenue when the Smithsonian gave that up, let's not lose the Heurich Mansion. The garden spot in the rear is alone worth preserving as is!
Marc Fisher: I'm with you. The Historical Society is clearly ignoring its responsibility to the Heurich family, to the city and to history. Even if the society's legal obligation to maintain the house as a museum has expired, it has a moral obligation to assure that the house remains available to the public as a shining example of a period of Washington heritage that said a ton about who we were and are. If the society feels the need to move to another building, it should at the least have found another institution willing to take on the role of public custodian of the house. Putting it on the open market for sale sends entirely the wrong message.
Plano, Tex.:
The Bush Adminstration's plan to dump the Constitution and Internal Law and hold Military Trials in Secret that allow all kinds of evidence that would never be allowed in Chinese Court, much less an U.S. Court scares me far more than bin Laden. The USA is not at war, doesn't face an invasion, doesn't face mass attack, and the number arrested aren't anywhere near the level that would overwhelm are court systems. How can this happen in America?
Marc Fisher: It's happening because not enough people are rising up against it, and because in the flush of popular support for the war, too many people are quick to label as unpatriotic any allegiance to our essential principles of openness and accountability.
Reston, Va.:
You don't like nuts and fruits in your cranberry sauce? You Heathen! YOU will be the first against the wall when the Glorious Revolution comes!
Marc Fisher: See, this is where the Taliban would come in handy--to enforce the proper consumption of cranberry sauce. They'd have a solution for those who pollute the Ocean Spray with the meat of nuts.
D.C.:
"There is a huge difference between using the political system to press peacefully for your views and blowing up ancient artworks or whipping people in the street because they don't follow your narrow brand of spirituality."
True enough. But what about bombing abortion clinics? Throwing your gay children out on the street to freeze, or forcing them to undergo "cures" involving severe abuse? Vandalizing other faiths' synagogues/mosques/temples/worship circles? Taking a gay man's, lesbian's or a pagan's child away from them? Keeping gays or lesbians from the deathbeds of their partners of umpteen years? Denying them death benefits when their police officer partner dies in the line of duty?
Marc Fisher: Those are bad things, and yet you've lumped together some acts that are clearly crimes with others that may be offensive, but are perfectly legal. Those who bomb clinics are terrorists, just as much as are the Taliban. But those who argue that gay children ought to be "cured" are espousing their views, and even if those views run contrary to what science tells us about the roots of sexual orientation, it's their right to be wrong.
Washington, D.C. (honestly!):
You touched on the anonymity of the Web in response to the anti-Semite above.
Well, regarding the pro-Taliban agitprop ostensibly from "United Kingdom," didn't it occur to you that the jerk's just as likely typing from a bunker in Kandahar? He's obviously trying to suggest that the U.K. is somehow not in alliance with us -- which is certainly not the case. Why don't you change such postings to "Anywhere"?
Marc Fisher: Because your scenario is as farfetched (or as plausible) as any other, and I choose to trust folks until I have evidence that they ought not be trusted. That's also part of the strangeness of the web--it requires a certain trust that might not be applied in other venues.
Cathlamet, Wash.:
Good morning.
I am sincerely wondering if the goverment is telling the truth about the recent plane crash being a tragic accident.
The tail and BOTH engines don't just fall off.
OK, call me a black helicopter conspiracy nut, but given that Congress is still fighting a partsian battle with the airline security bill and given that there are been some very visible security breaches recently and given that the government spent millions for the airlines, if this was a terrorist attack, I don't think the government would tell us for the aforementioned reasons.
People are already nervous to fly.
But I don't care how scary it is, I would like to see the truth always be told.
Thank you.
Marc Fisher: I have to disagree: If there were evidence that terrorism were involved in that crash, I'm certain we'd know it almost instantly. There's no suppressing information of that enormity, and there's also no motive for the government to do so; on the contrary, if you're conspiracy-minded, you'd believe that the govt wants to out all acts of terror to bolster its ability to hit the terrorists even harder.
State College, Pa.:
Hi Marc, just wanted to say something about this religious stuff going around. We must remember that most of the stories in the Bible and other religious texts are myths from previous situations. It's very easy to see the similarities in the Old Testament and ancient writings. When you search back far enough, it seems everyone's religion shares common stories.
Marc Fisher: Quite true, and a good note on which to end today's session. No show next week: I'll be too busy picking the nuts out of my cranberry sauce, and I recommend you do the same. Even you, Reston. I expect a complete report when we reconvene on the 29th. Til then, Happy Turkey, all.
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