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Federal Diary Live
With Stephen Barr
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, Aug. 8, 2001; Noon EDT

RIGHT NOW!

Federal agencies increasingly are using automated systems to handle job applications. That means applicants for federal jobs must learn how to tailor their resumes for the Internet age or they'll find themselves shut out of government employment.

To sort through what you need to know about federal job hunting, employment expert Kathryn Troutman of The Resume Place joins Washington Post columnist Stephen Barr at noon Aug. 8 on Federal Diary Live.

Troutman is the author of the new "Electronic Federal Resume Guidebook," aimed at helping applicants seeking civil service jobs in the Defense Department. Her previous book, the "Federal Resume Guidebook," provides advice on how to write a paper resume that will be accepted by government agencies.

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

Capitol Hill: How do we find out what 199 nouns and verbs are selected for the skill bucket?

Kathryn Troutman: Hello everybody, thanks for writing.

The way you can find the important nouns and verbs for your particular occupational series is to do RESEARCH!!! There is no book that contains all of the keywords/phrases and skills for each type of job. The best place to find the right words is in the vacancy announcments (good ones) and other recruitment ads from private industry companies. Good luck finding your own key words and phrases. Thanks, Kathryn

San Francisco, Calif: Though I understand that the federal government has de-emphasized use of the traditional SF-171 application form in favor of a shortened OF-612 application form, a traditional resume, and (in a few instances) an online application, I have noticed that many applicants continue to submit the discontinued SF-171 form. With current trends in technology in mind, (and understanding that many managers may be unfamiliar with alternatives to the SF-171) what format do you think is the most effective?

Kathryn Troutman: Hello San Francisco, Federal job applicants should be using a "federal-style" resume or the electronic resume by now. I understand from Human Resources offices that about 75% of all applications are resumes now. They may not be the absolute correct format, but they are trying. The OF 612 is not a very flattering form to use to represent your skills and accomplishments! Even though the announcements say that you can use a 171, 612 or resume, I recommend that you write a federal resume -- to SELL YOURSELF!

Frederick, Md: What is the single most important thing to do on your resume to gain the interest of potenial federal employers?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Frederick, MD: Good question. Single Most. Okay, I think that you should write a Profile Statement or Summary of Skills at the top of your federal resume so that you can focus on the job for which you are applying. You can select some of the words from the announcement and use them in your resume. You can really wake up the personnel specialist by using some of THEIR WORDS in YOUR RESUME!

So, the Summary at the top of the resume is my favorite Trick for Focusing the Resume. Thanks, Kathryn

Gil Couts, Md.: Can one assume that the "skills bucket" which you refer to contains at least all the KSA's listed for the job? Would there be any other relevant "buzzwords" that are not among the KSA's? What if there are no KSA's?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Gil Couts, MD: The Skills Bucket is really the words in your resume. Your resume turns into a list of words that will become the bucket from which they will search for the critical skills for the particular job. Your Skills Bucket very well may not be the KSAs for the job. It depends on how well you write. It depends on if the KSAs are posted in the announcement. Most automated announcements do not list KSAs any longer. So, you have to write the resume based on research on vacancy announcements using words from duties and responsibilities and maybe a PD. The "buzz words" are the words or industry language that represent a particular field of work. Thanks for writing. Kathryn

Burke, Va.: Some good advice today, much of which probably applies to the world of paper resumes as well. However, electronic filing is far from universal and in some instances is no speedier than paper, depending on the organization. (I've seen the local Army CPO take two months for electrons while the Midwest office takes two weeks for paper.) Any advice for paper filers?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Burke, VA - Paper Filers advice - yes, make your package great looking, focused toward the announcement (picking up some of their language), on nice paper, looking great. The deadline is important -- but you are right, when they get the paper, they get the paper. With the electronic filings, you don't know because of servers, etc. So when you send the paper package, it's dependable. Your "Paper Federal REsume and KSAs need to be a presentation. Respect your personnel staff and selecting official - make it easy for them, make it enjoyable (I mean it). They're tired and overworked and they have some really awful stuff to look at. Kathryn

Fairfax, Va.: How far back should one go with listing their past jobs, awards and trainings, etc.?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Fairfax, - How Far Back Should you Go? That's a good question. Everybody asks that one! Here's the answer:

Go back 10 years with details and focus on the accomplishments and skills and duties. Also include the "compliance details": supervisor's name, telephone, salaries, address, zip code, etc.

The previous years can be included and even focused on if they are relevant for your current objective.

But you could summarize the previous years because, truly the emphasis is on the most recent 10 years. This is one way for you to get your resume down to 3-4 pages. The current job is the most important - the past 10 years are the most important. Thanks for writing. Good luck. Kathryn

Reston, Va: What is best way to look for federal job? I notice when you apply on-line, there are a lot of questions on your skills. How relevant are those skill questions? Thanks

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Reston - How relevant are the skill questions?
CRITICAL ...CRITICAL..

Think about the questions carefully. Rate yourself with total truth. Give yourself good credit. Don't be bashful. Don't hold back. But be truthful. The questions usually accompany the vacancy announcements that are using the QuickHire or Form C Announcements. The questions are excellent and easy to write and answer -- as opposed to the KSAs which take hours.

Also ... review your resume to make sure your answers to the questions can be supported in your resume!

Good luck with it all. Kathryn

Falls Church, Va.: re: GS levels. I have had a few interviews for federal jobs in the past week, and neither office mentioned what GS-level I would be considered at. If I am made a job offer, I understand it will come from the personnel office, not the hiring office. Will I be able to negotiate with the personnel office, or is it too late if I believe they are classifying me too low on the GS level?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Falls Church - GS LEVELS???
Well, I'm not a federal personnelist and I don't do interviews for jobs in government, that sounds kind of unusual to me. You should ask what the GS level would be for a person with your qualifications. You can can ask questions and negotiate with the personnel office - maybe. It depends on the office, your qualifications, the job, the agency's budget and how desperate they are. Try to negotiate, ask questions. Call them now. I don't think it's too late. Good luck - keep at it. Kathryn

Ashburn, Va: Are there special tips, advice, formats we need to know that would help on applying for or submitting resumes for Senior Executive Service (SES) jobs?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Ashburn --- SES SPECIAL TIPS??? Yes, I have several hundred tips. I teach an SES writing class at Health & Human SErvices that would be great for you. I have info on my website too. The Executive Core Qualifications statements are very important -- and challenging to write. It's like writing a Master's Thesis. Don't wait for announcement. Start writing right away. Use a federal resume to apply -- not a form! Prepare the package like you are writing a proposal for a $1 million contract. Take the application very seriously and spend time. Get an editor. Thanks for writing and good luck with the package. Kathryn

Washington, D.C.: Hello. How do federal employers look at one's salary history? My current private sector compensation consists of base salary and incentive comp (bonus). Can I use bonuses as part of my salary history? If so, any recomendations. Thanks.

Kathryn Troutman: Hi DC: SALARY QUESTION: When you list your salary in your federal resume, add up the entire compensation package. That's your salary. Base + Incentive makes the total. The federal resume requires that you give the salary for jobs for the last 10 years. Thanks for writing. Good luck.

IF you want to see samples of federal resumes with salaries listed, you could consider my book, Federal Resume Guidebook. People like it. Kathryn

North Bethesda, Md.: Does it do any good to cold call federal agencies when looking for a job?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi NO. Bethesda - COLD CALLING IN GOVERNMENT! I think it can do some good. I would probably do it if I was looking for a job in a particular agency. You should visit the building, see if you can see anything interesting. Learn about what they do, their customers, programs, services. Get involved. Talk to people who might be smoking out front. Ask questions about the agency. Join Toastmasters in the building - that way you can meet people. Infiltrate the place indirectly by getting involved in what they do. It may not get you a job, but it will get you information. Then also look for their posted job listings on their website or on www.usajobs.opm.gov. Yes, you should do it. Thanks for writing. Kathryn

Sterling, Va.: I am trying to apply for government positions as an outside applicant. How can I overcome the problem that most government positions seem "wired" for status or inside applicants. If one looks at the position descriptions, requirements for the position which must be met by the applicant, and, sometimes, the short open period (sometimes less than two weeks), it appears as though outside applicants need not apply. I get very suspicious when I see such long announcements with very agency specific job requirements listed. It sounds like an inside job.

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Sterling: WIRED JOBS IN GOVERNMENT? Yes, there are some wired jobs in government, but also in private industry. FORGET ABOUT IT! Apply for the jobs! Pretend like the job was made for you. You can't even think about this situation. You must give the "chosen one" a run for their money. Compete with them. Write a great reusme and KSA. Sometimes (if there is a selected person), that person can't take the job ... you will be the runner-up. Every once in awhile, you can see an announcement that is very, very specific. A special technical person might be considered. But ... you could apply anyway. There is no way to avoid this, YOU JUST NEED TO COMPETE! Good luck, Kathryn

Montgomery, Ala.: What is the difference between responding to an announcement for a job position using EPA's EZ-Hire verses using the Navy database system?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Montgomery, Alabama -- Thanks for writing and COMING TO MY WORKSHOP YESTERDAY!!!

E-Z HIRE VS. RESUMIX???? What's the difference? Great question!

E-Z Hire is the system that the Environmental Protection Agency is using to recruit candidates. It is a "QuickHire(tm)" system out of Alexandria, Virginia. This electronic system is made up of a resume (which is posted into one field) and answers to QUESTIONS. The questions are usually multiple choice, or your rate yourself on your abilities. It's a great application, easy to use and I like it.

The E-Z Hire is similar to the OARS system used by the U.S. Geological Survey, which has been very successful for about a year. The USGS has hired many candidates and does an excellent job with managing candidates!

The RESUMIX(tm) is owned by HotJobs.com out of Sunnyvale, CA. This system does not have questions. It is the Resume Only system with a database of key words. This system is used by Defense agencies.

Both ELECTRONIC SYSTEMS are good because I am glad they don't ask for KSAs anymore! REad the directions for the various announcements -- and you will see different instructions.

Thanks for the question -- a great one!

Washington, D.C.: Hello Kathryn, Should one follow-up after an interview with a thank you card/phone call as you would in the private sector? And how aggressive should you be in your cover letter?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi DC - THANK YOU NOTES TO FEDS? Sure, why not? The government is trying to handle their hiring like private industry, so it would be amazing and refreshing. It help them remember you.

Aggressive? Not too aggressive, but you can write and ask about the progress of the application and the hiring process. You can ask if your resume was found to be qualified. Leave nice messages on the voicemail. Be specific with the announcement. Remember they are busy. You can be persevering. Good luck. Kathryn

Laytonsville, Md: What is the average amount of time between the closing date for an announcement, and when you could expect a response?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Laytonsville: RESPONSE TIME?

Two weeks to two months. The response time is getting faster since the government is really anxious to hire people these days. It is much faster than it used to be. If you don't hear from someone in 4 weeks, you should call them and ask what happened to the announcement.

Thanks, Kathryn

Las Vegas, Nev.: How do I obtain a copy of your book, the "Electronic Federal Resume Guidebook," and do you have a Web address? Thanks.

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Las Vegas, MY WEBSITE: WWW.RESUME-PLACE.COM.
My email: kathryn@resume-place.com

My book is available on-line at my website on a secure order page. But you can also call or go to a local bookstore and order the book. Even libraries may have the book -- or you could ask for it.

Electronic Federal Resume Guidebook & CD, ISBN 0-9647025-2-5, Kathryn Troutman, author, $44.95, 240 pages softcover + CD-ROM.

Thanks very much for asking. I hope it helps you alot with your resume.

Kathryn

Alexandria, Va: I'm a Federal government HR professional, and I'm interested in knowing what Ms Troutman's background is in terms of Federal HR experience.

You advocate resume, and that's fine if all the needed information is there. But I have been on panels which rate and rank outside-government applications (DEU for those in the technical know), and thing that drives me nuts about resumes as opposed to the SF-171 is they often don't have the information I'm looking for so I can fairly credit the applicant with the KSAs that are mentioned in the job announcement.

Oftentimes the announcements provide for a supplemental statement of qualifications to address the specific job KSAs (usually called "selective placement factors" and "quality ranking factors"), and for someone who submits a brief resume it's really important that the supplemental statement address specific work responsibilities/experiences that address the KSAs. Otherwise the applicant loses out.

I'd say 80% of the purpose of the Federal application is to get on the "best qualified" list - only 20% is to make an impression on the selecting official. Because usually that's done in the personal interview. However it is possible to make a negative impression with the written application (e.g., bad grammar or spelling other than the occasional typo, attempts to use fancy words to try to hide a lack of important experience).

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Alexandria / Federal HR Professional, Thanks for writing. Yes, I advocate RESUME. But I advocate the right resume, not just "a resume". It is important that people know the "federal resume" is not just any resume they ahve on their computer. The "fedres" must include compliance details that are required - which are listed in the vacancy announcement usually. A good federal resume will not be 1 or 2 pages long. It will be 3 or 4 pages so that the panel can see the person's experience.

My background with Federal HR is that I have successfully written the book, Federal Resume Guidebook in 1995. This book has become the standard in federal HR and applicants as a very good federal resume style to use so that it can compete and be as successful - and much better than the 171 and 612.

I interviewed many federal personnel officers, managers and Office of Employment Information Professionals and the Office of Personnel Management to create my federal resume style. All of my workshops (hundreds of them) are well received because the federal resume I have designed is outstanding and acceptable.

I am a private industry person who saw a great need to design a standardized federal resume that will help many people who are trying to convert from a FORM to a RESUME that presents the best they have to offer. The government did not come up with a design, they only came up with a list of "what to include". This is not enough. People need a sample, a style and a guide. I wrote this guide. It is successful and people are getting hired - and panels like the package.

Thank you for writing. The table of contents of the Guidebook is on my website: www.resume-place.com

Thanks, Kathryn

Washington, D.C.: You said that if you had not heard anything after 4 weeks of submitting a resume to call and ask what happened to the announcment. How are you supposed to get the phone number? Most announcements only list a name and never a number.

Kathryn Troutman: HI DC: Phone No? I usually do see a phone no. on most announcements. If no phone, find an email. If no email or phone, look them up in the blue pages. Look up the agency, office, HR office, they have a phone. Kathryn

Bethesda, Md: Oh, dear. Stephen's column today really rang true for me. I applied recently for a federal job by emailing my resume, KSAs, etc. as attachments. I was baffled by the broad range of options for submitting (forms, not forms, snail mail, web-based application, etc.) So on top of that they're going to have a computer screen my resume for keywords (really a CV with publications)? How universal is this?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Bethesda, BAFFLED BY RANGE OF APPLICATIONS. Yes, I am baffled by it too. But just keep reading the directions and try to understand each one. The keywords are just the words that you should include in your resume so that you will be qualified. The keywords are useful for both electronic and paper applications. I've always used the right industry language, buzzwords and keywords for resume -- so there's really nothing new about this. Just keep applying, keep your package up-to-date and write good KSAs. They love those KSAs (those agencies which are still accepting them).
Thanks for writing and KEEP APPLYING! You will get in if you keep at it. Kathryn

Washington, D.C.: Is there a rule-of-thumb for length of a "great KSA"? Is one page per KSA excessive? Is a single concise paragraph insufficient? Thank you.

Kathryn Troutman: HI DC! KSA Length - good question. One page per KSA is perfect. Or 2/3rds of a page would be nice too. I like a little white space at the bottom to give the reader a break on the text. A single concise paragraph might be okay if the right content is in the paragraph. Your paragraphs should not exceed 8 lines -- people can't focus on HUGE PARAGRAPHS anymore. A GREAT KSA is one that gives an EXAMPLE. So, please remember that. Don't write generic, vanilla answers. Boring. Give specifics. Make it interesting. Keep them reading. Create a page-turner.
Put effort into the writing of KSAs. It's worth it.
Good luck. Kathryn

PS, I have a KSA Builder on my website - with the format:
Context-Challenge-Action-Results. That could help. kt

Arlington, Va: Ms. Troutman, Have you ever worked for the federal government? Have you ever been selected for an interview for a government job based on your resume and ability to write a resume?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Arlington! My fedres! Well, you've got me there. I haven't applied for an official job. But I think that I should and maybe I will. I do apply for lots of training opportunities with proposals, my book and my experience. I am very successful there. They like me as a trainer.

But the official job announcement route - I have to admit I haven't done it. I did work for the government about 20 years ago for about 6 months. That was it. Then I started my business - helping federal employees get promoted with better SF-171s, KSAs and strategizing to get promoted.

I found that I could help federal employees more being on the outside - believe it or not.

IF I tried to get a job in government, it would be as a Career Counseling Center Director, a GS-15 job. I'll see if there are any of these. But it would not be real, because I would not accept the job. I'm doing more the way I am running my business now than I could ever do in one agency.

Thanks for asking. Kathryn

Rockville, Md: Is it okay to use the Resume Builder on usajobs.opm.gov, or is it better to write my own resume and submit it via email? Thank you.

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Rockville. It would be better to write your own resume (follow the formats in my book, Federal Resume Guidebook -- or the format on usajobs.opm.gov (which is the same format)

You should really do your own resume because you can have more flexibility. The Resume Builder is rigid. The fedres samples are more flexible and allow you to sell yourself better. You can also have your own resume in WORD. The usajobs.opm.gov version is in HTML, which is not easy to edit.

Thanks, good luck.

Alexandria, Va: I appreciated your answer. But it highlights to me and most Federal HR professionals the idiocy of the Clinton-Gore administration decision to abolish the SF-71.

I mean, it's nice that you saw a need to create a format and write a book to show applicants how to create a resume format that would meet Federal needs. But with the SF-171, applicants could just fill out the form. They didn't have to spend $40-50 for a book to tell them how to write a resume.

Now that there is electronic form-filling computer software widely available and accessbile to anyone with a computer and the internet, I think it would be great if the Federal government went back to the SF-171 (the OF-601 is useless, in my opinion).

Kathryn Troutman: Hi HR Professional, I'm so glad they eliminated the SF-171, I totally disagree with you. If you could see with your own eyes the difference between the SF-171 and a great looking federal resume (with all of the personnel details that you need), you would agree with me.

The federal resume is flexible and can include a SUMMARY OF EXPERIENCE at the beginning. It can focus the person toward a position. It can upgrade the skills better. It is not rigid. It is not an application. It is a marketing tool that can represent a person. It is not a personnel form.

You need to see a sample. I will send you one. My email is kathryn@resume-place. Please write to me and I will send you a great looking, correct federal resume! Kathryn

Arlington, Va.: Kathryn: It seems that some jobs that were posted recently have been sucked back into the hiring freeze currently in effect for jobs above the GS 13 level. What is the story on that? Why did they release them in the first place? Do you think there is a chance that the freeze will be lifted soon? Thanks.

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Arlington, HIRING FREEZE? I think it's pretty much over. I've heard that it's still around here and there, but the GOVERNMENT IS HIRING. How can they have a Freeze? They're anxious to hire -- it's in the news. So just be patient, wait it out. They're hiring anyday now. Keep applying. Kathryn

Washington, D.C.: Sorry, I am new to this federal hiring process. What is a KSA and who uses them and for what?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi DC, What are KSAs? They are Knowledge, Skills and Abilities statements that are required by many federal agencies. They will ask you questions like: "Describe your Ability to Communicate Orally". The you write about 1/2 of a page about how you communciate with people - what kind of people and what kind of situation. They are mandatory for many applications. REad the instructions very carefully. You will be graded on them, so take time and consider them.
If you write good KSAs, you could get hired. Kathryn

Falls Church, Va: For entry-level positions, for those of us just entering the professional field, there very well may not be 10 years worth of experience. What advice to you have with those of us with only one or two positions of experience?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi Falls Church: 10 years vs. quality experience?

You don't have to have 10 years of experience to apply for federal jobs or write a good federal resume. You do need to make the most out of your experience that is relevant to your objective. You have to sell your qualifications, skills and accomplishments. Make a BIG DEAL out of your last two jobs. Write 2/3rds of a page! Include your accomplishments! Impress them! Thanks for writing. Good luck with your professional goals. Kathryn

Washington, D.C.: Ms. Troutman, There's a great deal of discussion in the federal government currently regarding the human capital crises--which I believe does exist--and the need for federal agencies to attract the "best and brightest." What advice can you give to federal managers regarding improvements to their vacancy announcments to make them more attractive to potential applicants outside of government?

Kathryn Troutman: Hi DC - HOW CAN YOU MAKE THE VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENTS BETTER SO THAT YOU CAN ATTRACT THE BEST AND THE BRIGHTEST?????

1. make the announcement shorter
2. Focus on the job - not personnel details (or put the personnel info at the BOTTOM OF THE ANNCT).
3. Sell the mission of the agency - lots of applicants want to help the government provide services to the American Public.
4. Present the salary, benefits, sign-on bonus, incentives, great work environment (if it's true), and features of the job at the top of the announcement (You do want them to apply).
5. Ask for a Resume and Cover Letter only. The KSAs just cut many of the Best and Brightest people out. They don't want to write KSAs because they don't want to write extra paperwork.
6. Describe the job in a favorable way! Make it sound like a good job!
7. Use better writing style for the duties! Eliminate the 3rd person writing style "Incumbent Writes". Who is an incumbent anyway? Who ever heard of an incumbent?
8. Accept applications by email - the best and brightest use email.

Overall, write the recruitment announcement like you have a really great job within an excellent organization that will give them an excellent salary, great benefits and opportunties to learn, grow and serve!

That should do it. The BEST AND BRIGHTEST WILL APPLY!

Thank you for asking. If you want more help with this, write to me at kathryn@resume-place.com

Stephen Barr: Kathy, thanks for fielding questions today. Federal jobs are clearly a hot topic. We've got dozens of questions flowing in, but we've run out of time. And many thanks to all of you who participated in this online discussion and to those who take the time to read the transcript. We'll see you again next week--noon on Wednesday.

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