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Dirda on Books
Hosted by Michael Dirda
Washington Post Book World Senior Editor
Thursday, July 5, 2001; 2 p.m. EDT
This week's topic:
Food & Literature.
Washington Post Book World Senior Editor Michael Dirda takes your questions and comments concerning literature, books and the joys of reading.
Dirda's name appears weekly in The Post's Book World section. If he's not reviewing a fat literary biography or an ambitious new novel, he's likely to be writing a lighthearted essay about the joys and burdens of living in a house filled with way too many books. Although he holds a Ph.D. in comparative literature from Cornell, Dirda is still smart enough to be an unabashed fan of "The Simpsons," noting that "the show's genius derives from its details." He also loves P.G. Wodehouse, intellectual history, children's books and locked-room mysteries – just the sort of range you'd expect from a Pulitzer Prize winner for distinguished criticism.
These days, Dirda says he spends inordinate amounts of time mourning his lost youth and daydreaming ("my only real pastime"). Otherwise he just reads books and writes about them, with occasional visits to secondhand bookstores in search of treasures. He claims that the happiest hours of his week are spent sitting in front of a computer working on his reviews and Readings columns. "Do not imagine that I regard my taste for literary artifacts as anything but shameless and vulgar," Dirda says, "I have sunk so low as to covet Edward Gorey coffee mugs. I yearn for a bust of Dante to place on a bookcase."
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control
over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Michael Dirda: Welcome to Dirda on Books. For the next hour we'll talk about reading, writing, reviewing and whatever else that comes up pertaining to theworld of books. In theory, this week has a special topic--food and literature--but we needn't be restricted to that, by any means.So on with the show!
EG, D.C.:
I had a small epiphany while reading Jonathan Yardley’s column last week about the Atlantic Monthly article blasting novelists who write books filled "self-conscious, writerly prose" that are popular with literary critics and prize judges. At the time, I had plodded through about 90 pages of “The Debt to Pleasure” by John Lanchester and found it extremely tedious, but I was loath to stop reading, not wanting to appear (if only to myself) like a less-than-hip Philistine about modern fiction. But after reading Yardley’s missive, I pitched the book into the trash. Well, not really, but I did give myself permission to stop reading the thing, and plan to trade it in at the first opportunity. And I feel no pain, no guilt! Thanks, Jon!
In that column, Jonathan Yardley called Don DeLillo’s “White Noise” an “execrable” novel. You have expressed admiration for Don DeLillo’s work, including that book. Do you and Mr. Yardley ever have friendly (or unfriendly) arguments about books?
Michael Dirda: Jon and I disagree about a lot of things, but since we like each other, we tend to make our debates friendly and indulgent, rather than bloodthirsty. I haven't read the Atlantic artice (and missed Jon's piece too for that matter), but I did glance at it enough to see that the author lays into some of my favorite writers: Annie Proulx, Cormac McCarthy, Don De Lillo, Paul Austers and a few others. All these writers can be criticized and selective quotation will make anybody sound stupid. But I don't believe that critics and readers have been wrong in seeing them as ranking high among our greatest living novelists. They may not always be easy to read, or comforting, but they are writers grappling with the American experience in ways that lesser writers seldom do. Frankly, I was surprised not to see Toni Morrison in the article, since she seems to rank with thesew writers, both in terms of her vision and her excesses. Maybe Myers knew that that would be really dangerous territory to go into. Still, I shouldn't comment, since I haven't read the piece.
However, I do believe that people should read for pleasure. If you don't care for Lanchester's book, you don't have to keep after it. Try something else. The world is full of good books. You're not in school. Read at whim!
Washington, D.C.:
I started receiving Book magazine (I got it after signing up for Barnes and Noble's frequent buyer program). After a few issues of this magazine, I still don't trust it completely as an independent magazine about books. I have scoured the masthead to see if it's a BN publicity vehicle, and it doesn't appear to be. Are you familiar with this publication?
Michael Dirda: I think I know the magazine, but I'm not absolutely sure. There have been various reviews though that do have a suspect flavor of gung-ho appreciation. Anything you get for free usually has somebody paying the bills--and it may be the advertisers or Barnes and Noble.
Washington, D.C.:
Michael,
One, my husband and I were arguing on the blue line Metro Tuesday night that it was you sitting in front of us. (I thought it was you, especially when the man opened his briefcase and there were three books inside. My husband said it wasn't. This is all based on the jacket photo from "Readings").
Second, I just read the two Phyllis Richman mysteries with on food critic Chas Wheatley and thought they were entertaining. I wasn't living in the area when these came out. Did they make a splash? Did you enjoy them?
Michael Dirda: Might have been me, if it was between McPherson Square and Foggy Bottom. Normally, though, I"m on the red line. Was the brief case green cordura?
Phyllis's books were well received--frothy, entertainment, though nothing more. But that's what she aimed at.
Arlington, Va.:
Dear Mike,
I'm not quite sure if this covers the food/lit category, but… the other day I was unpacking some boxes I had stored at my parent's place. I came across my complete collection of Nancy Drew mysteries and was almost overwhelmed with the memory of Mom's lemonade and Tollhouse cookies (baked just the way I liked them- without the chocolate chips). The experience was so intense I almost cried at the thought. I wanted to take a few of the books out to back yard, sit in the shade, sip lemonade and eat cookies. Powerful stuff- food and books.
Michael Dirda: Ah, yes: ye olde madeleine experience. (See Proust.) When I think back on my childhood reading, I seem to be eating as much as turning pages. Cups of cocoa with mounds of comic books. Snickers bars with Sherlock HOlmes. Ham sandwich on rye with sweet pickles with Bomba the Jungle Boy (one memorable Christmas afternoon at a relatives). But childrene's books are so evocative. Wasn't it Wordsworth who was discovered to have marked his place in a book with a piece of bacon?
Newark, Del.:
Greetings...
What do you think of books that are half cookbook, half story? I'm thinking of things like The Mafia Cookbook and Like Water for Chocolate. In these types of books, what do you think is better -- the story or the food?
Michael Dirda: I haven't actually read either of these. On the page I tend to prefer story to food--I'll get my snack from the icebox. The one exception may be the various works of M.F.K. Fisher, though even there I like the prose best of all.
New York, N.Y.:
Which M.F.K. Fischer title would you recommend for my book club?
Michael Dirda: Either the omnibus volume called The Art of Eating, or a paperback reprint of Fisher's first book Serve it Forth. But nearly all her books are good.
Herndon, Va.:
I'm currently in the midst of four books:
---One on tape that I listen to while I commute
---Two next to my bed that I trade off on as the mood strikes
---One that I'm reading to my daughter (age 11)
Just wondering how many books you have going right now?
Michael Dirda: One. I can only read one book at a time. If I"m reviewing it, I have to write the review before I start reading another book. I need a lot of focus.
In truth, I will glance at old favorites at bedtime, or even read around a little in them. But basically I'm a one-book at a time person.
Food:
Ah yes, the madeleines. Your list was great fun to read. I too, associate many of my childhood books with food:
Winnie the Pooh- homemade cocoa w/lots of whipped cream
Little Women- more hot cocoa, my mother's homemade chocolate cupcakes w/caramel frosting
Nancy Drew/Hardy Boys- a plethora of Peanut butter sandwiches, and glasses of milk
It's harder to come up with adult books that evoke such food memories- I do know that every time I sit down with Dickens I will be brewing tea before long.
Michael Dirda: As an adult, I like to read in restaurants when I'm by myself. Edmund WIlson has a great essay on this: A Preface to Persius. In fact, I wrote my PH.D. dissertation largely in the Ithaca, New York McDonald's, late at night, sipping coffee.
Washington, D.C.:
I really think one of the best food books I've read in a long time was Ruth Reichl's "Comfort Me With Apples." It is autobiographical, so you get to peek into the life of a famed food critic, but she also includes some of the most tantalizing passages on food. She does a whole section on a visit to a garlic-themed restaurant that made me dizzy.
Michael Dirda: Jon Yardley reviewed this for Book World and he did make her two autobiogrphies sound quite wonderful.
Washingon, D.C.:
What do you think of the idea that reading any book at all is a good habit, even if the book is considered trashy? I happen to agree with this statement -- I feel that any time sitting and reading is better than sitting in front of the television, or other time wasters.
Michael Dirda: I agree with you. But I'm not quite so violently against television. There are lots of good shows on, but life is short and one has to make choices. I'd rather read or listen to music or talk to certain friends. Movies and tv are simply way down on my list of pastimes.
Steel Cage Deathmatch on Washington Post online?:
You a little concerned about going up against Candice Bushnell?
Michael Dirda: No. I've seen Sex and the City a few times and it was funny. Our reviewer, Dawn Trouard--my old boss at the University of Central Florida--thought that Four Blondes was pretty trashy, even blowsy. No, I hope she has a good chat--it's good for the liveonline audiences.
EG, D.C.:
I have especially enjoyed books that describe and contrast food and eating by both the lower and upper classes. One good 'un is "The Good Earth," where there is quite a contrast between what is consumed by Wang Lung and his family when he is a poor farmer, and when he becomes a wealthy landowner. And I never fail to be moved by "A Christmas Carol's" description of Bob Cratchit's family taking great pleasure in their modest Christmas dinner.
As detailed above, I obviously did not find another food novel, “The Debt to Pleasure,” especially succulent.
Michael Dirda: thanks
Washington, D.C.:
Michael --
I have decided to revisit the classics (mostly American) in my reading, some old favorites, as well as others I've never managed to read. I'm starting with Faulkner.
I just finished As I Lay Dying, but I'm having trouble getting thru Sound and the Fury. A co-worker tells me it's a life-changing experience -- but I'm struggling with it and am inclined to drop it. Please assure me it's worth hangin' in there for.
Michael Dirda: Well, Faulkner isn't the easiest author in the world, but most people do regard him as pretty close to the greatest AMerican novelist of the past century. But given that, why torture yourself? Go read somebody else: Heminway, Fitzgerald, Cheever, Cather. There are lots of great and more welcoming novelists around.
Washington, D.C.:
oh help help help! Mr. Dirda, this may not be about food or really literature, but it is about writing. How on earth do I get over a sever case of stage fright, in front of my typewriter? Someone made the mistake of saying something I wrote was good, and told me to write more of it. I'm stumped. I'm worried that what I write now, won't be any good. Does this happen to you? How do you deal with it?
Sorry for the dramatics.
Michael Dirda: In my own case, I never believe that anything I write is any good. Makes life easier. What matters, of course, is making your deadline and not exceeding the agreed-upon word length. It also helps to have something to say.
You shouldn't write FOR anyone but yourself. Quantity is the most important part of writing: Turn out a lot of copy and you will gradually get better. Don't make a fetish of one assignment or project. Keep moving.
If you've written well once, you'll do it again.
Washington, D.C.:
I also subscribe to the "why torture yourself" school of thought. Unfortunately, my book club is about to tackle Ulysses, which I know I will not be able to get through at all. Could you suggest any convincing arguments to try a different book?
Michael Dirda: Ulysses is a fun book--you shouldn't have any trouble getting through it. It's got jokes, sex, satire, glorious language--what more could you want?
Calif.:
My sister and I just had a day-long e-mail exchange about food imagery from books that we can't get out of our minds. We included:
-"frothy hot chocolate" and Turkish delight from The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe.
-hot buttered rum in Mark Helprin's Winter Tale.
-loads of passages from Laura Ingalls Wilder books, including "cracklins," maple sugar poured on snow, and the scene where Laura has some lemonade, eats a bite of white birthday cake, and then has some more lemonade and is surprised at the sourness.
-the scene from our childhood fairy tale book from Hansel and Gretel, before the witch puts them in the cages. In our book, the witch feeds them "pancakes and apples." The combination of these two mundane foods seemed so luxurious to us!
-passages in Heidi, where the cheese is toasted until it can be spread like butter, and the goat's milk tastes like it has cinnamon and sugar in it.
Makes me hungry....
Michael Dirda: Hmmmm. You've heard the expression to devour books. . . you're practically there.
New York, NY:
On the Myer's "Reader's Manifesto" in the Atlantic Monthly: He does do a tiny riff on Toni Morrison, citing her answer to a question an intimidated Oprah Winfrey asked her about one of her latest novels (I forget which). The question was something like, "I don't get it. Why am I not getting it?" To which Morrison replied, "That's called reading, my dear." Myers argues that Morrison's answer displays a tendency of many authors to make their readers do all the work. Reading, Myers says, should be pleasurable; it shouldn't be work.
I have enjoyed at least one Morrison book ("Song of Solomon"), several DeLillo books ("White Noise" and "Libra" in particular) and several Auster books (especially "Moon Palace" and "The Music of Chance"). I can see Myers' point about some of these authors' excesses. Some of the very things that rub him the wrong way about them rub me the wrong way. Yet I have to say that ultimately these books gave me pleasure. I think Myers wants to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Proulx and McCarthy I've never read and have never had desire to read. I enjoyed the skewering they got in the article. But I agree with what you said about it last week: no one will be talking about the "manifesto" a year from now. Not even readers.
Michael Dirda: Well, the world should be filled with all kinds of books--some easy to read, some demanding effort and commitment. There's a place for both. But, excepting a few kinds of comfort books (Horatio Hornblower, for example),it's only the books with depth, texture, and excess that will be read in the future.
Bonn, Germany:
Re food & lit: here's a quote from a favorite novel, Nora Ephron's "Heartburn": "...to say that cooking is creative not only misses the point of creativity -- which is that it is painful and difficult and quite unrelated to whether it is possible to come up with yet another way to cook a pork chop -- but also misses the whole point of cooking, which is that it is totally mindless... there is something comforting about the fact that if you melt butter and add flour and then hot stock, -it will get thick-! It's a sure thing! It's a sure thing in a world where nothing is sure; it has a mathematical certainty in a world where those of use who long for some kind of certainty are forced to settle for crossword puzzles."
Btw, I've just started "Debt to Pleasure," and I'm rather enjoying it -- a nice mix of funny and learned, so far.
Michael Dirda: thanks--good quote
Washington, D.C.:
My favorite food/book memory is finding mustard on the pages and bead crumbs in the binding of The Last of the Mohicans, loaned to me by my non-reader brother. I knew it had to be good if he let it slow him down while eating.
Is the rest of The Leather Stocking Series as good as The Last Of The Mohicans?
Michael Dirda: Don't know--I was put off Cooper by Mark Twain's famous attack on his literary mistakes. I"m so susceptible....
Takoma Park, Md.:
As to class contrast in food, there's a wonderful passage in Cold Comfort Farm (one of earth's funniest novels) about a wedding between an aristocrat and a farmer's daughter, where the locals eat all the fancy food and the London rich types zoom in on the rough cut cheese and pickles and other rustic delights.
Stella Gibbon doesn't underline it, it's just one of her passing comments.
Michael Dirda: THat's a wonderful book, one of my favorites too. Something nasty in the woodpile. . . THe movie is pretty faithful to the book.
Annapolis, Md.:
On food and literature - I read "Under the
Tuscan Sun" about a month after I got back
from a trip to Tuscany. I thought Mayes
captured the atmosphere and the cuisine of
that region perfectly - and her recipes are
good as well.
You disappointed me a little with your
comment about working on your dissertation at
the Ithaca McDonald's - as a fellow
Cornellian, I would have pictured you at the
State Diner (or even, if it was really late
at night, the Boulevard.)
Michael Dirda: Well, I liked to drive out to the McDonald's because it was open till 2 AM or later. It was relaxing to hear the voices of truckers and kids on dates and ordinary people, plus the waitresses got to know me and would give me free coffee.
New York, N.Y.:
I remember reading "The Grapes of Wrath" when I was a starving college student and being practically able to smell the oil on the griddle when Mrs. Joad and the girls finally got some corn cakes to grill. I think of "Grapes" as one of the most affecting books about hunger ever written.
Michael Dirda: yes
Silver Spring, Md.:
I wanted to thank you for your wonderful review of American Gods. It was extremely refreshing to read a review that addressed the book's tone without giving away any of the plot's surprises, and of course it's great to see Neil Gaiman get some much-deserved recognition.
I did have a question about your follow-up article on fantasy: How did you manage to winnow the list down to the books you chose? Were they your personal top 10 in fantasy, or just 10 that you thought represented a range of possibilities for the people who always swear they don't read fantasy?
Thanks again for the great writing!
Michael Dirda: The 10 books were chosen to reflect the variety of fantasy and with an eye on work that would appeal to mainstream readers. The titles aren't my top 10, by any means. I left out Jack Vance and Lord Dunsany, two of my top 10, because I'd written about them so often.
Bethesda:
Re: the "dangerousness" of debunking Toni Morrison. It's too bad that PC protocol prevents that. The only one who seems to have the gall to take her on is Saul Bellow and he has caught some flak for his "racism."
Michael Dirda: thanks
Washington, D.C.:
Thanks for doing this chat today, Michael.
My favorite books about food are by Laurie Colwin. Although she's mostly known by her novels, Colwin also wrote two odes to food: "Home Cooking" and "More Home Cooking." Both books consist of a series of essays about food and cooking, written in Colwin's lovely prose. Even if you're not much of a cook (my husband does the cooking in my family), these books are great fun to read.
Michael Dirda: I miss Laurie Colwin's books. I love that story of hers called "My mistress" in which the narrator laments that other people have elegant mistresses who eat bon bons while his slouches around in an old sweat shirt.
Takoma Park, Md.:
Michael,
It's something nasty in the woodSHED, not woodPILE.
..off to cletter the dishes while reading the Higher Common Sense.
If only that book actually existed.
Michael Dirda: Yes, it is--fingers moved too quickly.
DuPont Circle:
Is it OK for a well educated 41 year old male to still read MAD magazine?
Michael Dirda: Alfred, of course it is.
Heh Heh:
“Alive,” the story of the South American plane that crashed in the Andes, and whose survivors were forced to hold their own Donner Party, is one sort of food book, I suppose.
Michael Dirda: yes,indeed.
Toledo, Ohio:
This has nothing to do with food (although I am crunching on peanut M&Ms as I type). My question is this: What's your opinion of the late Agatha Christie purely as a writer (as opposed to a master plotter)? My own thoughts on this have changed over time (for the better) -- and I'm curious what you think.
Michael Dirda: I'm a great admirer of Christie--her prose is plain, some would say flat, and her characters are stereotypes, but she possesses some sort of enchanter's magic: One reads her books for the solace they convey, as well as the sheer complexity of the crime. I particularly admire The ABC Murders.
Falls Church, Va.:
Hello. My question concerns Holinshed's "Chronicles." Why is such an important book out of print/so hard to find? Any suggestions on how to procure a copy? Gracias.
Michael Dirda: Is it out of print? Try one of the used bookservices on line or look in the yellow pages under Books Used and Rare.
Jane Austen/food:
Dear Mike,
Some years ago, a friend gave me a Jane Austen cookbook. No, it didn't contain Jane's personal recipes, but food that she and her characters would have partaken of. Several friends and I reread Northanger Abbey, Pride and Prejudice, Persuasion, and Emma- then we cooked up a storm and had a book discussion/dinner party in honor of Ms. Austen. Great fun! I can't recall the name of the cookbook, but an amazon search should come up with it.
Michael Dirda: thanks. Does sound like fun
Winston-Salem, N.C.:
To weigh in on the food issue, it's hard to beat the Nero Wolfe novels for a wonderful combo of cooking and crime. Would love to eat at Rustermans and have a meal prepared by Fritz. The recent A&E TV adaptations have been amazingly faithful to the books by the way.
Michael Dirda: Have they? I love Rex Stout--I once referred to him and P.G. Wodehouse as the twin pillars of stylis escapism. By the way, either of these authors make great summer reading. I don't get cable so have missed the A and E shows. Sorry. I love classic detective shows of all kinds.
Washington, D.C.:
Hello Michael, I noticed that the discussion's intro mentions your quest for a bust of Dante for your bookcase. I took the liberty of checking ebay for you, and I found two such busts up for auction. Go to www.ebay.com, and enter dante bust in the search field. Just trying to help you out, as you have helped so many of us....
Michael Dirda: Ah, I should take a look at that introduction. I would like a bust of Dante, but I'm not sure I want to actually buy one. I'd also like a Maltese Falcon. But thank you. I may check these out, even if I've never actually used e-bay.
New York City:
Story, food, books. Got to mention Dona Flor and her Two Husbands. Dona Flor runs a cooking school. Delightful and not strictly tasteful book and certainly influencing such books as Like Water for Chocolate (which I've never read).
The previous respondent did not quite give a full accounting of the conversation between Winfrey and Morrison. Winfrey suggested that reading her books made her look things up, think about things, etc. Then Morrison said that's called reading. Seems a good response to me.
Michael Dirda: Does to me too.
Elkinville:
Hi Mr Dirda, typing in early because of meeting. Hope I can skip today's topic and offer you an aphorism that didn't make it in last week and ask a question.
First, the aphorism, from Gaddis' "Frolic of His Own," the very first two sentences: Justice? - You get justice in the next world, in this world you have the law.
And a question: Lorrie Moore, in an interview in the current Paris Review, talks about the wonderful intensity of the 2nd person narrative (for the reader) and how hard 2nd person is to write convincingly in general and in novels in particular: can you think of any great novels written in the 2nd person? As always, thanks.....
Michael Dirda: La modification, by Michel Butor. A pretty good and funny novel is Bright Lights, Big CIty, by Jay McInerney.
Reston, Va.:
In last week's chat, you wondered about the distinctions between aphorisms and apothegms. Here's what I found at the online version of the American Heritage Dictionary (4th edition). (It makes more sense when you can see the italics, which separate the examples from the definitions.)
Saying, maxim, adage, saw, motto, epigram, proverb, aphorism. These nouns refer to concise verbal expressions setting forth wisdom or a truth. A saying is an often repeated and familiar expression: a collection of philosophical sayings. Maxim denotes particularly an expression of a general truth or a rule of conduct: "For a wise man, he seemed to me . . . to be governed too much by general maxims" (Edmund Burke). Adage applies to a saying that has gained credit through long use: a gift that gave no credence to the adage, "Good things come in small packages." Saw often refers to a familiar saying that has become trite through frequent repetition: old saws that gave little comfort to the losing team. A motto expresses the aims, character, or guiding principles of a person, group, or institution: "Exuberance over taste" is my motto. An epigram is a witty expression, often paradoxical or satirical and neatly or brilliantly phrased: In his epigram Samuel Johnson called remarriage a "triumph of hope over experience." Proverb refers to an old and popular saying that illustrates something such as a basic truth or a practical precept: "Slow and steady wins the race" is a proverb to live by. Aphorism, denoting a concise expression of a truth or principle, implies depth of content and stylistic distinction: Few writers have coined more aphorisms than Benjamin Franklin.
The definition given for apothegm: A terse, witty, instructive saying; a maxim.
TODAY'S QUESTION: What is the connection between William Blake and His Dark Materials (which you described as "a paean to Blakean joy in life")? Having enjoyed the Pullman series, are there any works of Blake you would recommend to the general reader?
Michael Dirda: thanks for the definitions. Blake excoriates the bonds of religion and government and praises individual liberty and a lost Edenic freedom. Read "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell." Peter Ackroyd's Blake is a very good biography.
Bonn, Germany:
Re the top ten fantasy list: I'm looking forward reading "Gormenghast" (had just found a used copy last week) and a little disappointed to see that LeGuin's Earthsea tetralogy wasn't mentioned ("Tehanu" is such a wonderful book). Btw, have you ever tried to mail one of the Book World articles to yourself? Somehow, a lot of the formatting gets lost, which makes them quite hard to read -- and since I can't have a Book World subscription anymore (which would allow clipping of relevant articles), I wish it was possible to save articles in a decent format.
Michael Dirda: I've never tried this. Is there anything I should tell Bonn, Meredith?
I love the Earthsea trilogy and reviewed Tehanu. I oculdn't mention everything. There's supposed to be a fifth earthsea novel coming later this year.
Washington, D.C.:
Some friends and I are planning a little summer book club for out kids -- all boys, ages 6-9 -- a kind of "read a book - have an adventure related to the book" theme. Any books come to mind that would make for a great adventure for kids. Could this be our next topic? Not really an adult theme, but with all those reminiscing about food mentioned in children's books, but this group could come up with some great adventure stories.
Michael Dirda: sure, let's talk about this next week. For our time is up today. I'm sorry if I didn't get to your question. Try me again next Thursday at 2. Till then, Keep reading!
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