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Bookclub: "The Makioka Sisters"
Presented by Francis Tanabe
Washington Post Book World Editor
Monday, Mar. 26, 2000; 2 p.m. EST
Welcome to the online meeting of The Washington Post Book Club, a monthly program presented by the editors and writers of Washington Post Book World. Post Book World editor Francis Tanabe will be leading the discussion on this month's selection, "The Makioka Sisters" by Junichiro Tanizaki. Read Tanabe's review of the book.
Tanabe joined the Book World staff in 1972 as a researcher when the new tabloid book section began. Later he became layout editor and a book reviewer.
Born in Tokyo, Tanabe attended Sophia University in Tokyo, received a B.A. and an M.A. in political science from The George Washington University. He claims the best education he received was at The Post, reading thousands of books on and off the job.
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
Francis Tanabe: Welcome to the Washington Post Book Club online discussion. For our March selection, I have selected Junichiro Tanizaki's masterpiece, THE MAKIOKA SISTERS. Donald Keene, the preeminent scholar of Japanese literature has written (in his reminiscence of Tanizaki in 1984) that he considers this writer to be the finest that Japan has produced in the modern era. Arthur Waley (the translator of Murasaki Shikibu's THE TALE OF GENJI introduced the book to Keene while they were both at Cambridge University. But it was Edward Seidensticker, another friend of Keene's who translated this novel. The English version of THE MAKIOKA SISTERS was published in 1957. In the original Japanese, the book was published in three volumes and it became a bestseller after the book was completed and published in 1848.
Let's turn to your questions and comments:
Evanston, Ill.:
Your review comments that "It is remarkable that very little of the war enters Tanizaki's ficational world." Given how all-present the war was on the homefront, is there not some sort of commentary on it, by not mentioning it? i.e. any info on Tanizaki and the war?--P. Lyons
Francis Tanabe: I wonder if it was Tanizaki's way of showing displeasure with how Japan was taken over by the military. He was obviously displeased with the censors who forbade the publication of the first installment. Even when translating or rendering THE TALE OF GENJI into modern Japanese, he had to refrain from the part that questioned the legitimacy of the imperial line.
Vienna, Va.:
Mr. Tanabe,
Don't you think that this story still upholds the stereotypes of Asian women as a submissive martyr to her family? Also, do you see a change with Asian American writers or on Asian American culture/history in writing? I don't think there are enough AA writers.
Francis Tanabe: Your criticism is quite appropriate, I think. Japanese critics have mentioned that Tanizaki treats the Makioka's without questioning their bourgeois values. The Makioka sisters are not all that typical since they come from a very privileged family. Yes, Tanizaki could have done more with the plight of the youngest sister. She is the most independent of the four. I won't touch your question about Asian American writers because for the most part do not accept the cultural values of old Japan.
Lenexa, Kansas:
Mr. Tanabe,
I've been wanting to get to Asian classics--Murasaki, Soseki, Tanizaki--for some time. Thanks. It was a fun read--Austen-like in part with the unmarried daughters/sisters. Interest never flagged.
It was nice to see Yukiko--a shy, bright girl who read Anatole France--finally have a successful miai. Rejection is never fun whatever the culture and mores. To what extent have the old traditions like miais and sibling nuptial sequencing continued? Thanks.
Francis Tanabe: I'm glad you mentioned Jane Austen, to compare the more independent Elizabeth Bennet with the Makioka Sisters. It seems Austen treated the class situation in England with more irony than Tanizaki does . . .
Arranged marriages still continue to this day especially among the upper classes (and those who have no chance in the open field because of shyness, etc.). Today, there are enough men who have no time for romance and rely on the kindness of their family, business associates, etc.
Evanston, Ill.:
How did you choose "The Makioka Sisters"? It's not exactly typical of his general run of novels--or do you see similarities?
Francis Tanabe: I chose THE MAKIOKA SISTERS on a whim. I read the Japanese version many years ago and liked it. This book is not like Tanizaki's other novels. There are only a handful of writers who can create a world with such precision and detail. In a way, it's like a remembrance of lost time, a la Proust. But in the third person.
Vienna, Va.:
From my own experience of having lived in the Ashiya area I sense Tanizaki's strong love for the Hanshin culture against Tokyo. More quality of life was in Kansai than in Tokyo. At the same time, Kansai people's inferiority complex toward Tokyoites. Do you think this sentiment depicted in the novel reflects Tanizaki's own preference?
Francis Tanabe: I think it does show Tanizaki's newly found prejudice. He was born in Tokyo and spent much of his time there and in Yokohama. It was through his third wife Matsuko that he began to shift his interest in the Kansai area. In the old days, before 1600, anyone outside the Kansai area were considered somewhat lacking in culture (in the aristocratic ways of Kyoto). Since the Tokugawa regime established power in Edo (now Tokyo), that sense of being the center of Japan shifted. The Kansai dialect is certainly richer in nuance than the Tokyo dialect. I can only speak the Tokyo dialect and I am always pleasantly surprised when I listen to conversation in the Kansai dialect.
Evanston, Ill:
To Vienna, VA: Yukiko is a kind of iron fist in velvet glove--the whole family dances around her, even though she looks like the submissive stereotype. Japanese women couldn't have made it through the centuries if they'd all been wimps--mightn't there be some blinders in our idea of "strong women"?
Francis Tanabe: Well, the idea of strength in the East is the bamboo that will not break against a strong wind. Not the oak. So your observation, I think, (how shall I say this in diplomatic language), has validity!?!
Lenexa, Kansas:
Mr. Tanabe,
I especially enjoyed the night of the fireflies, While we never had a formal ritual here in Kansas, it certainly was a part of growing up.
Susan Gubernat has a poem "The First Night of Fireflies" recalling her own pubescent spark: "Some boy already had a glass jar / with a grass nest, a punctured lid. / He was coming over." Did you experience some directly? Thanks.
Francis Tanabe: Yes, I do love fireflies. In the summer they swarm in the bamboo grove in our back yard. I will have to read Susan Gubernat's poem. Thank you for mentioning the poem.
Leesburg, Virginia:
Do you think the character Teinosuke, Sachiko's husband, is the author's voice? I noticed that after the Osaka flood the dusty streets had Teinosuke thinking of Tokyo after the "great earthquake." I understand Tanizaki left Tokyo for the Kansai region after the earthquake and wonder if there are other hints of a connection between the character and the author.
Francis Tanabe: I think Tanizaki modelled Teinosuke after himself. Especially since he had to cope with his wife's sisters in real life. You pose a good question about other hints that connect the character with the author. Perhaps someone could like to comment.
San Diego, Cali.:
I loved this book and it seems appropriate that it first appeared in serial form. I hesitate to say so, but it almost had a soap opera feel about it, albeit a very classy soap opera. As I think about it, a Masterpiece Theatre with many episodes is more appropriate.
Francis Tanabe: I do have questions about the editing process. I have come across so many Japanese books that cry out for editing. I have seen a few pages of Tanizaki's original manuscript and the editing marks all seem to come from the author.
Evanston, Ill.:
To Lexa--, KS: Mr. Tanabe is right--still lots of omiai. But the upside of the system is that it can be a kind of customized dating service, now that both parties have right of refusal. One of my friends held out until she found the right qualifications: sense of humor, likes sports, wants to work and live abroad, good family man. He's wonderful, and she's been very happy for decades with him.
Francis Tanabe: There you have it. Personally, I could not go through with an arranged marriage.
Bethesda,Md.:
How and how much is this marvelous book being read in Japan today?
Francis Tanabe: My guess is that very few people read The Makioka Sisters today. So many are impatient with this type of novel. Too much of an investment of time, and it does reflect another time, with different sets of values.
Manassas, Va.:
You suggested watching the movie of The Makioka Sisters to get a visual sense of the novel. Where is the movie available?
Francis Tanabe: I rented one at Potomac Video in Washington. There must be other places where one can rent this.
Washington DC:
1. Was Tanazaki aware of his 'quiet rebellion'against the militarism of his government during the time of his writing of "The Makioka Sister" -- i.e. was he surprised at the censorship imposed. The government seemed to (correctly) interpret T's displeasure through the act of setting the novel in a pre-war era. My question is about how much you think there was consciousness and/or unconsciousness regarding his creative act.
Francis Tanabe: I think Tanizaki deliberately chose to ignore the military and the war effort in a kind of slap against the cruder side of Japanese society. After all he is an artist who values a world of sense and sensibility to the finer things in society. I don't know to what extent the unconcious played a role in his writing. I suppose this novel reflects some deeply felt sense of values, how he regards women, ie, or how he views his own sense of mortality. What do you think?
Vienna, Va.:
Since I've read it only in Japanese, I have no idea how its flowing style in Kansai dialect is rendered in the English version. Tanizaki has a unique style in this novel through his use of extremely "run-on" sentences, which are descriptive and almost audible to my inner ears which are so used to the dialect. Perhaps I should find it out myself as to its rendition in English. Aside from the difficulty of translating dialects into a foreign language, what is your opinion on the translation concerning Tanizaki's flowing style?
Francis Tanabe: In English, the long paragraphs are maintained just like in the Japanese version. Sometimes it's exhausting without a break. So when a dialogue breaks up the interminable paragraph, it is a welcome relief.
I "forgave" his style as in the realm of literature. If I can read James Joyce's Ulysses without periods, Tanizaki's paragraphs are not all that daunting.
Washington DC:
Comment: The reader from Leesburg asks about the relationship of the author to the characters. Taznazki wrote elsewhere that he could not write anything that was not of the imagination. While this is true for him, it is clear that his pre-occupations are present in the novel -- i.e. the theme of past and present reflects his brief love affair with things Western until his immersion with Matsuko (and her sisters) into the gracious ways of a time past. Past and present is a theme of this book that takes many forms. He is a great writer and, as such, it would be an oversimplification to simply call this a Roman a clef, or autobiographical. Donald Keene has a charming note of how thoroughly he confused Matsuko with her counterpart in the novel.
Francis Tanabe: Thank you for your interesting comment.
Evanston, Ill.:
A direct question to you, Mr. Tanabe: Your bio says that you were born in Tokyo, and once read MAKSISTS in Japanese, which I have never done. Apparently, Seidensticker edited out some portions of the original in his translation. Do you recall any such places (so that I could focus on them as I approach the novel in Japanese--it is such a very long novel!)? Of course, you read it long ago, you said...
Francis Tanabe: Yes, it would be difficult for me to pinpoint the exact places in the novel. Perhaps I can communicate with you later about the exact passages.
Vienna, Va.:
To (the other) Vienna, VA
I am reminded of a Chinese saying that women are like water and men are like a rock: a rock might seem stronger than water, but water can erode the rock over time.
Francis Tanabe: Indeed! In the modern context, we can say the same and switch the sexes. I've known some hard-headed women, too.
Evanston, Ill.:
"Delicious perversity" is a term I would use for much of Tanizaki's fiction. Do you see signs of it in Makioka Sisters?
Francis Tanabe: Unlike Tanizaki's other noves, I don't recall a scene that would fit the term "delicious perversity." His other novels do, such as "Naomi" and "The Diary of the Mad Old Man."
Manassas, Va.:
It surprises me that in a novel that indulges the reader with beauty, there are frequent references to diarrhea. I've noticed a similar development in Sawako Ariyoshi's "The Twilight Years." Does diarrhea have some literary significance? Or is it just a medical fact related to the characters' situations?
Francis Tanabe: It seems to me in Japanese conversation and literature, scatological references are acceptable. In rakugo, a Japanese form of comedy, it is a source of humor.
Francis Tanabe: Sorry to end our discussion with that note, just like the novel.
I thoroughly enjoyed our discussion. Hope you did, too.
I'm off to Tokyo and Kyoto tomorrow. Will go to Arashiyama and the Heian Shrine to pay homage to Tanizaki (by viewing the cherry blossoms).
Manassas, Va.:
In regard to the rendering of the Kansai dialect: In Seidensticker's introduction to the translation, he said that he did not attempt to show the difference between the Tokyo dialect and the dialect of the sisters. However, to American ears, using the dialect of the American South might suggest the graciousness of an earlier time. It would just be very strange for Sachiko to be speaking like Scarlett O'Hara.
Francis Tanabe: A late comment. You are absolutely right. But there must be a way. Thomas Hardy, for example, treats dialects rather well. Perhaps we can learn from his novels.
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